private shooting range

ganmo

Just wondering are there any rules regarding setting up a private firing range? personal use only

meathstevie

ganmo wrote: »

Just wondering are there any rules regarding setting up a private firing range? personal use only

Most publically accessible ranges would be privately owned and the regulations are rigorous to say the least if you want to shoot anything but air or .22lr and even at that the hoops to jump are numerous.

There's experienced target shooters on here with serious club and competition involvement who'll be able to give you more in depth info.

hexosan

ganmo wrote: »

Just wondering are there any rules regarding setting up a private firing range? personal use only

Do you mean on your own land or land you have permission on just setting up targets to shoot or something else.

ganmo

own land

cookimonster

Go on to Garda.ie (?) and you will see the amount of hoops there are. The cost of materials even for a small range that meets the code is massive. Your location will need a safety template done and the results of this will impact on caliber used, range length, numbers of firing points etc.
Safety burrens, fireing points, baffles, bullet catchment back drops etc are only some of what may be required.

I stand to be corrected on any of the above, but this is from my limited inquiries into the matter.

Clay shooting ranges are totally different with a much more relaxed approach once common sense on the shooters side is observed.

ganmo

Ya I was thinking of setting up a few targets with a few windage guides.
I just want to know that I can sit there the whole day practising and not worry about the garda helicopter landing beside me

cookimonster

ganmo wrote: »

Ya I was thinking of setting up a few targets with a few windage guides.
I just want to know that I can sit there the whole day practising and not worry about the garda helicopter landing beside me

Target shooting can only be done legally on a registered range......anywhere else is thwarting officialdom

ganmo

yet I could sit there and shoot at a tree all day?

cookimonster

ganmo wrote: »

yet I could sit there and shoot at a tree all day?

A grey area, I believe, covers you for checking your zero prior to hunting, but this would be a limited amounts of shots....with in reason.......

ganmo

hmm even though my reading http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0622.html it all refers to operators, in respect to ranges.

Cass

ganmo wrote: »

yet I could sit there and shoot at a tree all day?

Erm nope. That's a target, hence target shooting.

cookimonster wrote: »

A grey area, I believe, covers you for checking your zero prior to hunting, but this would be a limited amounts of shots....with in reason.......

No grey area. Zeroing is classed as target shooting. It was made part of target shooting "in error" as the minister later admitted but he never repealed that little nugget to make it legal to zero your rifle outside of a range.

SI 622/2011 covers everything from a building and regulation perspective. So whether it's just you or 1,000 people they all must meet set criteria. Coupled with fees, etc. and it's not a cheap or easy endeavour.

ganmo

Cass wrote: »

Erm nope. That's a target, hence target shooting.


No grey area. Zeroing is classed as target shooting. It was made part of target shooting "in error" as the minister later admitted but he never repealed that little nugget to make it legal to zero your rifle outside of a range.

SI 622/2011 covers everything from a building and regulation perspective. So whether it's just you or 1,000 people they all must meet set criteria. Coupled with fees, etc. and it's not a cheap or easy endeavour.

Once I saw maps etc it was a none runner.
Might look at the shotgun laws as a comparison

Cass

This is the best part, shotgun shooting is not classed as target shooting and hence requires none of the above. Brilliant isn't it?

cookimonster

Cass wrote: »

.........No grey area. Zeroing is classed as target shooting. It was made part of target shooting "in error" as the minister later admitted but he never repealed that little nugget to make it legal to zero your rifle outside of a range

...

........... Jez' and my wife says I'm stubborn when I won't mend my wicked ways:rolleyes:.....typical Irish policy making - 'I know its wrong but......'

ganmo

so I need a shotgun and a clay pigeon trap

or a rifle and not shoot at fixed targets?

Cass

ganmo wrote: »

so I need a shotgun and a clay pigeon trap

Not that simple either, but essentially yes. You'll need insurance, permission, etc. but it's no way near as hard as an authorised range.

or a rifle and not shoot at fixed targets?

The law defines a target as paper, tin can, etc, etc. Fixed, moving, pink, green, doesn't matter. So they cover EVERYTHING. Shooting at targets outside a range = no, no.

ganmo

so shooting at animal targets? good ould law

Cass

Animals - Not target shooting. It's game
Animal shaped targets - target shooting. Has to be done on a range.

ganmo

but animals are a target, a moving one if you use the root definition of target...i cant find how they define it in si622/2011
"a place, thing, or person at which an attack is aimed"

Cass

Call them what you like, and it's way too late to draw this out with what you think they are/what i think they are, etc., but the law says they are animals and hence are covered by the Wildlife Acts.

As it's illegal to shoot game (animals) on an authorised range you won't find any mention of them in the Range SI (622/2011)

ganmo

Cass wrote: »

As it's illegal to shoot game (animals) on an authorised range you won't find any mention of them in the Range SI (622/2011)

I'm sorry that i keep coming with these but if i was to make an authorised range I then wouldn't be allowed to shoot any deer rabbits etc that would wander across it?

feel free to ignore until tomorrow

Cass

Basically.

There is a procedure. It's been a while so i might not be spot on, but roughly if something (animal/bird) was shot by accident you must:

• Close the range
• Call a vet
• Launch an investigation as to how it happened
• File a report with DoE/AGS
• Etc.,

ganmo

Cass wrote: »

Basically.

There is a procedure. It's been a while so i might not be spot on, but roughly if something (animal/bird) was shot by accident you must:

• Close the range
• Call a vet
• Launch an investigation as to how it happened
• File a report with DoE/AGS
• Etc.,

legislation gone mad!

Cass

Been around for decades lad.

Mad is looking at these things in the rear view mirror.

hexosan

Is it just me or is every thing in life that the Irish government have a hand it f@&ked up beyond all belief.
It just seems that anything they put their hand to is a complete disaster, it's as if they keep trying to reinvent the wheel using a square.

Sparks

ganmo wrote: »

legislation gone mad!

Yup. Mind you, that's actually happened on some Olympic ranges abroad as well. 100 lads all lined up with .22lr rifles and every one of them able to hit a target 5mm across 50m away, and a bird flew through the range and caught a round. All 100 lads had to sit there and wait while a vet was called in to humanely dispatch the bird.

Law, Common sense. Utterly unrelated topics...

mrbrianj

Sorry for being a nay sayer, and I know everybody here is sensible, responsible and considerate but anyway - can you imagine the complete F up we would have if there were not for the shed load of laws and requirements for target shooting? All it takes is one eejit to think his local football field is perfect at 100yrds sideline to sideline

What does it say on a .22 box, (I cant remember but I think) its a warning upto 1 km - centre fires go a hell of a lot further.
One shot placed without thought when hunting is bloody dangerous, a few friends sending 50 each down the wrong range is chasing disaster.

There is a hell of alot of planning and prep work to make a range safe. I think thats fair enough

Now, there should be easier access to ranges for zeroing. You should be able to attend a range under supervision for a set fee/time just to check zero. I imagine there are a few guys with centrefire rifles who only have access to a Coillte lease but no access to land where it would be safe to zero in. This could be revenue raising for clubs without impact on the clubs activities, win win.

nastros

mrbrianj wrote: »

Now, there should be easier access to ranges for zeroing. You should be able to attend a range under supervision for a set fee/time just to check zero. I imagine there are a few guys with centrefire rifles who only have access to a Coillte lease but no access to land where it would be safe to zero in. This could be revenue raising for clubs without impact on the clubs activities, win win.

I think a few ranges already offer that if you have your own insurance you can pay a fee and shoot to zero. I would say alright having more ranges available in local areas would be a big bonus alright as there seems to be a shortage.

Sparks

mrbrianj wrote: »

Sorry for being a nay sayer, and I know everybody here is sensible, responsible and considerate but anyway - can you imagine the complete F up we would have if there were not for the shed load of laws and requirements for target shooting? All it takes is one eejit to think his local football field is perfect at 100yrds sideline to sideline

Yeah, but we didn't have those laws before 2006 and we've been shooting since the 1850s. Somehow, we managed not to massacre the entire population during that time...

There is a hell of alot of planning and prep work to make a range safe. I think thats fair enough
Now, there should be easier access to ranges for zeroing.

You know that the first of those sentences makes the last one a lot harder to implement, right? The harder it is to open a range, the fewer of them there's gonna be. Someone hunting bunnies out near Ballina is not going to be able to drive to somewhere like the midlands to fire 2-3 shots to line up a scope before driving back to Ballina to whack some bunnies for stew, even if they were given free membership.

I agree we want good ranges, and for target shooting where you'll have tens of thousands of rounds fired a year if not millions, I can understand higher specifications; but the zeroing issue isn't something that those specifications or special fees for hunters in target shooting clubs will fix.

Zxthinger

mrbrianj wrote: »

Sorry for being a nay sayer, and I know everybody here is sensible, responsible and considerate but anyway - can you imagine the complete F up we would have if there were not for the shed load of laws and requirements for target shooting? All it takes is one eejit to think his local football field is perfect at 100yrds sideline to sideline

What does it say on a .22 box, (I cant remember but I think) its a warning upto 1 km - centre fires go a hell of a lot further.
One shot placed without thought when hunting is bloody dangerous, a few friends sending 50 each down the wrong range is chasing disaster.

There is a hell of alot of planning and prep work to make a range safe. I think thats fair enough

Now, there should be easier access to ranges for zeroing. You should be able to attend a range under supervision for a set fee/time just to check zero. I imagine there are a few guys with centrefire rifles who only have access to a Coillte lease but no access to land where it would be safe to zero in. This could be revenue raising for clubs without impact on the clubs activities, win win.

What then do you think of the UK system.. It excludes all expanding/hunting ammo from official ranges.
Hunters just zero their rifles in the fields and use their heads.

Perhaps they have it wrong.. ;-)

Again Ireland demonstrates it's nanny-state outlook.

mrbrianj

No it has an exemption for deer stalkers or vermin shooter to zero and test expanding ammunition on ranges.

The ranges may or may not allow it be the law provides for it.

Again, there is no issue with anybody zeroing anywhere that's safe. Just saying that not everybody may have access to safe areas. The coillte lease is for deer hunting not zeroing.

Zxthinger

Cass wrote: »

Erm nope. That's a target, hence target shooting.


No grey area. Zeroing is classed as target shooting. It was made part of target shooting "in error" as the minister later admitted but he never repealed that little nugget to make it legal to zero your rifle outside of a range.

SI 622/2011 covers everything from a building and regulation perspective. So whether it's just you or 1,000 people they all must meet set criteria. Coupled with fees, etc. and it's not a cheap or easy endeavour.

What does the act mean when it says "random firing" in part 3(2)?

Grizzly 45

It would be also a great help if we knew which way our freakin gun laws are going! I have a 150k minimum project sitting on hold for the last four years in my back yard to open a semi indoor range here in Limerick that initially was going to be private,but has become a possibility of becoming a club because of intrest expressed by lots of pistoleros in the Munster region. I've done nowt with it because of the stupid carry on of our Cheif in refusing all and sundry and likewise the Super over the last six years.Trying to get three govt bodies to sing on the same hyme sheet which you need to get permissions off before the first shovel of cement is laid,while trying to keep people who want to invest money in the project is like trying to herd a pack of cats while shovelling mercury with a pitchfork at the same time.

Sparks

Zxthinger wrote: »

What does the act mean when it says "random firing" in part 3(2)?

I always understood it to mean things like accidental discharge, firing cleaning pellets through air rifles, that kind of thing.
It can't override the zeroing problem though, because an SI can't overrule an Act of the Oireachtas (which is why Brophy and McCarron both saw the Minister being ruled to have acted unlawfully).

Mind you, the first case taken to court on the zeroing issue is probably going to be lost by the AGS anyway; without a definition of target shooting in the Act, charging someone with doing it outside of a range is going to be tricky; there's precedent on this as well, someone was once charged with blasphemy in the High Court and the court threw it out because there wasn't a legal definition of blasphemy in the statutes at the time.

I still wouldn't want to be the poor sod who wound up being the test case though...

patsat

Sparks wrote: »

I always understood it to mean things like accidental discharge, firing cleaning pellets through air rifles, that kind of thing.
It can't override the zeroing problem though, because an SI can't overrule an Act of the Oireachtas (which is why Brophy and McCarron both saw the Minister being ruled to have acted unlawfully).

Mind you, the first case taken to court on the zeroing issue is probably going to be lost by the AGS anyway; without a definition of target shooting in the Act, charging someone with doing it outside of a range is going to be tricky; there's precedent on this as well, someone was once charged with blasphemy in the High Court and the court threw it out because there wasn't a legal definition of blasphemy in the statutes at the time.

I still wouldn't want to be the poor sod who wound up being the test case though...

So in other words, we have one free pass..... I must a lovely spot for some 100-800 yards steel shooting if anyone wants a go! :P

Sparks

patsat wrote: »

So in other words, we have one free pass..... I must a lovely spot for some 100-800 yards steel shooting if anyone wants a go! :P

No, we definitely don't. And target shooting outside of an authorised range has already seen people hauled up and warned about it. And if you're shooting at steel targets with what's obviously a target shooting setup, that'd compromise an otherwise straightforward test case.

You'd want to have someone who's plainly, obviously, hunting game or rabbits or whatever; who takes one shot for zeroing; and who's hauled in over that one shot.

Someone goes plinking at steel 800 yards out with a bull-barrelled F-class rifle and that's not going to be a straightforward test case at all.

(Plus, you could be done for other violations of the act if you were acting the eejit like that).

patsat

Sparks wrote: »

No, we definitely don't. And target shooting outside of an authorised range has already seen people hauled up and warned about it. And if you're shooting at steel targets with what's obviously a target shooting setup, that'd compromise an otherwise straightforward test case.

You'd want to have someone who's plainly, obviously, hunting game or rabbits or whatever; who takes one shot for zeroing; and who's hauled in over that one shot.

Someone goes plinking at steel 800 yards out with a bull-barrelled F-class rifle and that's not going to be a straightforward test case at all.

(Plus, you could be done for other violations of the act if you were acting the eejit like that).

The sarcasm was clearly lost on you Sheldon!

Sparks

patsat wrote: »

The sarcasm was clearly lost on you Sheldon!

Probably; but when you see lads posting videos of themselves on youtube doing exactly this with faces and licence plate numbers all clearly visible and then hear them complaining about how they got post they'd rather not have gotten from the powers that be, you get a bit worried that someone else isn't going to get the sarcasm; and you'd want your name nowhere within an ass's roar of that possibility either! :P

Zxthinger

Does anyone have a full list of the legislation that specifically relates to target shooting.
Some of it is in the CJA2006 and some is in SI 622/???? but is there more

Sparks

It's a wee bit too complex to ever know if you have the full list...

hexosan

Is there any hope of us ever been allowed target shoot on private land

Sparks

hexosan wrote: »

Is there any hope of us ever been allowed target shoot on private land

No, not in the way you're thinking of.