No water protesters

aido79

I will be putting my house up for rent in the next few months. I would like to think that I can find a tenant who will pay all the utility bills and not leave me stuck with them if they move out or don't pay them. I consider the water charges to be just the same as any other utility and should be paid as such. Just wondering if it's ok to ask a prospective tenant what they're position on water charges is before they move in. I know some people are really struggling and the water charges are just another expense for people but the way I see it is if they can't afford to pay €100 a year for their water then I don't really want them as a tenant to be honest as it may limit their ability to pay the rent too.
(I obviously disagree with the water protests and think that if people don't pay the charges then the government will just take it from somewhere else and make other cuts or increase taxes to pay for it but that's a matter for a different thread)

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Would you take them at their word though.. "Will you keep all the bills paid?"

"'Course we will"

"Here's the keys"

If I was worried I'd just ask for a larger deposit. If you're in an anyway good location, you'll get it.

Graces7

aido79 wrote: »

I will be putting my house up for rent in the next few months. I would like to think that I can find a tenant who will pay all the utility bills and not leave me stuck with them if they move out or don't pay them. I consider the water charges to be just the same as any other utility and should be paid as such. Just wondering if it's ok to ask a prospective tenant what they're position on water charges is before they move in. I know some people are really struggling and the water charges are just another expense for people but the way I see it is if they can't afford to pay €100 a year for their water then I don't really want them as a tenant to be honest as it may limit their ability to pay the rent too.
(I obviously disagree with the water protests and think that if people don't pay the charges then the government will just take it from somewhere else and make other cuts or increase taxes to pay for it but that's a matter for a different thread)

Surely this will be the same as other utilities; ie the tenant is responsible and maybe simply include a non highlighted clause in the lease?

aido79

The Cunning Linguist wrote: »

Would you take them at their word though.. "Will you keep all the bills paid?"

"'Course we will"

"Here's the keys"

If I was worried I'd just ask for a larger deposit. If you're in an anyway good location, you'll get it.

Thats true. Just wondered by asking them through general conversation what their stance on the issue was might help.

aido79

Graces7 wrote: »

Surely this will be the same as other utilities; ie the tenant is responsible and maybe simply include a non highlighted clause in the lease?

Yes but a lot of water protesters see it as a tax and not a utility. It would be a good idea to put it in the lease.

garhjw

It's stated in my leases that tenants are liable for all utilities, including water.

OP, you could also send IW the tenants name and they can send a. Registration pack to them.

aido79

garhjw wrote: »

It's stated in my leases that tenants are liable for all utilities, including water.

OP, you could also send IW the tenants name and they can send a. Registration pack to them.

Good ideas. I'll do that. Thanks.

Pawwed Rig

It really makes no difference to you as to whether they pay their utilities or not. The contract is between them and the utility company and does not transfer to the landlord if the tenant does not pay. All you need to do to cover yourself completely is to submit meter readings on the day the tenant moves out.
Now in the event of a default the utility company will often chance their arm and say it is your liability but this is a bluff and has no legal basis.

Goodne

Who would cover the cost of a tenant removing the water meter? I would be inclined to ask for a larger deposit to cover the costs.

GerardKeating

Goodne wrote: »

Who would cover the cost of a tenant removing the water meter? I would be inclined to ask for a larger deposit to cover the costs.

Would that not actually be a criminal offence ?

Eric Cartman

Id be inclined to add in a line about agreeing to pay the water charges, not obstruct any sierra / IW staff and not tamper woth the meter, any of the people on their moral high ground would kick up a fuss about signing that anyway and youd tell pretty quick who will and wont cause trouble.

To any landlords renting out RA properties , I would collect a seperate water charges deposit to the full ampunt ex conservation grant

Gatling

Eric Cartman wrote: »

To any landlords renting out RA properties , I would collect a seperate water charges deposit to the full ampunt ex conservation grant

A second deposit because there on rent supplement ,
Might be counted as discrimination .

You do realise people on rent supplement can get all the bills paid through the local cwo from gas and electricity and now likely water ,
They will probably in a better position to pay than most

January

Gatling wrote: »

A second deposit because there on rent supplement ,
Might be counted as discrimination .

You do realise people on rent supplement can get all the bills paid through the local cwo from gas and electricity and now likely water ,
They will probably in a better position to pay than most

Since when?

Gatling

January wrote: »

Since when?

Since forever ,
CWO 's pay thousands of utility bills every month ,
If I remember correctly Joan Burton said on a programme they dept of social protection pays 300,000 bills in full every month,
It's covered under discretionary payments

Bob24

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It really makes no difference to you as to whether they pay their utilities or not. The contract is between them and the utility company and does not transfer to the landlord if the tenant does not pay.

But that is if they register as customers with Irish Water right?

If they don't send their application pack, there will be no contract between them and Irish Water. And I think if no one is registered, the landlord is legally liable?

Maybe rather that asking them to pay, the best thing to do is to ensure they do indeed register as customers? Then whether they are paying or not is not the landlord's problem anymore, but rather Irish Water's problem.

circadian

garhjw wrote: »

It's stated in my leases that tenants are liable for all utilities, including water.

OP, you could also send IW the tenants name and they can send a. Registration pack to them.

I wouldn't recommend sending any sort of personal information to another party.

Goodne

GerardKeating wrote: »

Would that not actually be a criminal offence ?

I don't know if it is or not but how would you prove it was the tenant? The meter is on a public footpath after all. But you can be sure the landlord would have to pay to have it reinstall if it was removed.

garhjw

circadian wrote: »

I wouldn't recommend sending any sort of personal information to another party.

I confirmed with the ODPC that it is permissible to pass on a tenants name and address to IW.

Pawwed Rig

Bob24 wrote: »

If they don't send their application pack, there will be no contract between them and Irish Water. And I think if no one is registered, the landlord is legally liable?

Nope. IW tried to claim that was the case but it just isn't. In fact a Landlord cannot even check to see if his tenants have registered if he rings Irish Water. The usual utility contract rules apply.

Bob24

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Nope. IW tried to claim that was the case but it just isn't. In fact a Landlord cannot even check to see if his tenants have registered if he rings Irish Water. The usual utility contract rules apply.

Things don't work like with your "usual" utility though. If neither a tenant not a landlord registers as a customer, IW doesn't have a contract with anyone and is still providing the service for free (whereas Electric Ireland or Eircom would disconnect the premises which would quickly prompt for someone to register as a customer).

It seems like it would be a bit too easy to get free service and not registering would become endemic with tenants. Surely there must be something planned to prevent this from happening?

Gatling

Bob24 wrote: »

Things don't work like with your "usual" utility though. If neither a tenant not a landlord registers as a customer, IW doesn't have a contract with anyone and is still providing the service for free (whereas Electric Ireland or Eircom would disconnect the premises which would quickly prompt for someone to register as a customer).

It seems like it would be a bit too easy to get free service and not registering would become endemic with tenants. Surely there must be something planned to prevent this from happening?

What can they legally do ,im registered without even contacting iw ,
For instance unmetered apartment complexes don't pay cant cut you off or reduce your flow,
I've heard some management companies have suggest they get the deposits so they can pay if tenants don't cant see how that's remotely legal ,
Other management companies threatened evictions if tenants didn't register only to face backlashes from owners ,tenants and legal professionals

Pawwed Rig

Bob24 wrote: »

It seems like it would be a bit too easy to get free service and not registering would become endemic with tenants. Surely there must be something planned to prevent this from happening?

They haven't really thought it through very well which is one of the reasons we are seeing problems now. The info they have released has been chaotic and contradictory and in many cases incorrect. The tenant will be ultimately liable but it is not yet clear how the enforcement will work.
If the Landlord would be chargeable then this benefit would (in some cases) exceed allowable rent thresholds (for SW tenants) thereby breaching the law.

Mrs OBumble

OP, yes, of course you can put "Water charges protesters need not apply" when you advertise: you may discriminate on any grounds you like apart from the Big Nine (age, sex, ethnicity, disability ... etc), and this includes environment consciousness.

And I would just put something in into the lease saying that the tenant needs to supply you with a copy of the documents they complete to register with IW. If someone asks you to remove this bit - they're not the tenant for you. Simples.

Eric Cartman

Gatling wrote: »

A second deposit because there on rent supplement ,
Might be counted as discrimination .

You do realise people on rent supplement can get all the bills paid through the local cwo from gas and electricity and now likely water ,
They will probably in a better position to pay than most

well then do it to everybody to avoid discrimination. The biggest difference is, if you bring somebody working to small claims youll likely get your money back in full, or in 2-3 installments, if you bring somebody on welfare to small claims youll get 5 euro a week if even.

Gatling

Eric Cartman wrote: »

well then do it to everybody to avoid discrimination. The biggest difference is, if you bring somebody working to small claims youll likely get your money back in full, or in 2-3 installments, if you bring somebody on welfare to small claims youll get 5 euro a week if even.

But people on sw are more likely be able to pay compared to say somebody or a family renting on middle type income that have 1000-1500pm on top of child care ,car costs ,prsi and usc ,
And as i said earlier people on sw have full access to cwo's and other Assistance ,

People on rent supplement aren't necessarily the first people not to pay there utilities

Eric Cartman

Gatling wrote: »

But people on sw are more likely be able to pay compared to say somebody or a family renting on middle type income that have 1000-1500pm on top of child care ,car costs ,prsi and usc ,
And as i said earlier people on sw have full access to cwo's and other Assistance ,

People on rent supplement aren't necessarily the first people not to pay there utilities

most of the court cases brought every month by the esb have an 'im unemployed' defense on it. Also look at the water protests, the more people on welfare in an area the bigger they are. There are employed people who protest water charges, but the loudest voices in the room are the unemployed, its why there are loads of those protests on week days during office hours, people arent taking a day off work to moan about it. its a massive risk to any landlord and greater than other utilities. If the esb doesnt get paid, it gets disconnected and the landlord can set up a new account and its all sorted. IW have made it clear that unpaid water bills will fall back on the landlord.

Graham

Make the new tenant aware that they will be asked to complete the application pack for IW at the signing of the lease

Pawwed Rig

Eric Cartman wrote: »

IW have made it clear that unpaid water bills will fall back on the landlord.

IW have rowed back on that statement admitting that they have no right whatsoever to do so. This was a couple of months ago now.

aido79

Graham wrote: »

Make the new tenant aware that they will be asked to complete the application pack for IW at the signing of the lease

I think this is what I will do just so that everything is clear from the start. The house is brand new(plastering finished last week) and won't be ready for a couple of months but I have already had people interested in renting it such is the demand for rental properties in the area so I shouldn't have a problem finding a tenant.

Graces7

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It really makes no difference to you as to whether they pay their utilities or not. The contract is between them and the utility company and does not transfer to the landlord if the tenant does not pay. All you need to do to cover yourself completely is to submit meter readings on the day the tenant moves out.
Now in the event of a default the utility company will often chance their arm and say it is your liability but this is a bluff and has no legal basis.

They did this with my current ll and he fell for it. He knows better now

circadian

garhjw wrote: »

I confirmed with the ODPC that it is permissible to pass on a tenants name and address to IW.

My concern would be with how the tenant reacts. I'd make it very clear in the lease that names will be forwarded to IW if requested.