Fornication from my past life

JimiTime

MrPudding wrote: »

The issue for us is this, the 'essence of christianity', as you call it, is pretty basic stuff, and it need no supernatural overseer, nor did it need anyone supernatural to come up with it.

Your 'essence' is something that was around long before your Jesus, and if you had any interest in reading outside of your own religion, you would see that the ideas and concepts behind it were espoused repeatedly down the ages by many many different religions and many different non-religious people.

We agree because it is obvious. We disagree that there is anything supernatural about it. The only supernatural I need is the TV show, very happy the new season started.

MrP

It is 'obvious' because you are still in the afterglow of Christianised culture. Your issue is that you think Christianity had nothing to do with it. Never mind you having little foresight, you don't even have good hindsight.

MrPudding

JimiTime wrote: »

It is 'obvious' because you are still in the afterglow of Christianised culture. Your issue is that you think Christianity had nothing to do with it. Never mind you having little foresight, you don't even have good hindsight.

Yes, and I guess the reason I am a 'good person' is that god is working away inside me... Please.

It is perfectly reasonable and possible to develop and follow a set of practices that allow one to interact with other humans with a minimum of conflict and for the betterment of society without an appeal to the supernatural or some kind of eternal overseer of reward and punishment. That the supernatural was seen as required in the past, or that the set of principles are similar or even identical to those derived from the supernatural, that some people can't see why people would be good without the supernatural or even is christian culture did influence me or anyone else, that still does not lend a shred of credibility to your, or anyone else's claims to the validity of your particular supernatural belief, nor does it take away from the validity of any principles derived from non-supernatural reasoning, irrespective of their resemblance to those principles derived form the supernatural.

MrP

sbsquarepants

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I am a Christian, and although some religions might believe in a God that 'tests' us, I was never taught to believe that. What sort of God would 'test' us, knowing that we are merely weak imperfect humans and not perfect divine beings such as He..

You've never heard the story of job?

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I was was brought up to believe. But I do believe there is another being, Satan, who is quite capable of tripping us up all along the line..

Who was created by?
Which omnipotent being allows him do his thing?
Who is therefore to blame?

If you let your viscous dog off it's leash in the playground and it mauls a child, is it the dogs fault or yours? If the next day, and the day after ad infinitum instead putting the dog down, you brought him back to the play ground and let him off his leash again, would you not be getting more and more guilty and complicit?

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

God just wants you to love him, and be happy. It has always been that simple for me. Hope this helps.

Demands, more so than wants.

Op - you've done nothing wrong, anyone or anything that makes you feel bad simply for being human should really be cut out of your life. Life is too short to allow others make you feel bad.
We all regret certain events or people from our past, we all make mistakes and poor decisions at times, it's just the human condition.
If your actions make you feel bad, change them and do something that makes you feel good. Your first responsibility is to yourself and your own wellbeing, physically and mentally, that being said try not be an asshole to others and don't let them be assholes to you. That will serve you better than any religion OP and it's completely guilt free!

JimiTime

MrPudding wrote: »

Yes, and I guess the reason I am a 'good person' is that god is working away inside me... Please.

It is perfectly reasonable and possible to develop and follow a set of practices that allow one to interact with other humans with a minimum of conflict and for the betterment of society without an appeal to the supernatural or some kind of eternal overseer of reward and punishment. That the supernatural was seen as required in the past, or that the set of principles are similar or even identical to those derived from the supernatural, that some people can't see why people would be good without the supernatural or even is christian culture did influence me or anyone else, that still does not lend a shred of credibility to your, or anyone else's claims to the validity of your particular supernatural belief, nor does it take away from the validity of any principles derived from non-supernatural reasoning, irrespective of their resemblance to those principles derived form the supernatural.

MrP

Like I said, you think its all obvious, but its only obvious to you, because you are still living in the afterglow of a Christianised society. On a societal level, subjective morality will get to a point where what is obvious to the atheist today, basking in the Christian afterglow, will be far from obvious to the godless of the future.

Juza1973

eviltwin wrote: »

The lady may be looking for answers from a Christian perspective but I feel if she is still dealing with guilt after having already made changes to her life then she had bigger issues that can't be addressed here. I'm surprised you're allowing the thread to remain to be honest. It's more suited to personal issues. Posters here might be able to reassure her that her relationship with God is okay but it's disturbing to read a post so full of self loathing.

People who are neater to be Saints have a deeper remorse for their sins. It is a purpose that they have to pay to feel God matter to them. It is about what she wants; if I answered to every request of help or complaint telling to seek Christ help I wouldn't do anything wrong and I would be perfectly right but the moderators would probably find me a disturbance. Well in this newsgroup Christian answers are just the natural outcome and what she was looking for.

sbsquarepants

Juza1973 wrote: »

People who are neater to be Saints have a deeper remorse for their sins. It is a purpose that they have to pay to feel God matter to them. It is about what she wants.

I find it hard to imagine anybody wants to feel like crap.
Hate yourself some more and it will be better for you when you die is terrible advice OP.
Accept what you've done as nothing more than being a young woman - you have harmed no one, you simply tried something you weren't all that keen on and so you don't want to try again and that's fine. If you we're keen and wanted to carry on that would have been fine too. DO NOT let others tell you you have done anything wrong, you haven't.
It's silly to waste your life feeling guilty for simply being human. Find something that makes you feel happy and spend your time doing that instead (if that thing is religion, so be it - but it seems to me like it's having the opposite effect - if it is, cut it loose and move on would be my advice). You get only one shot at this

aaakev

Well said sbsquarepants

DoYouEvenLift

<Mod Snip: Not relevant to thread.>

hinault

hellenkell wrote: »

I was raised in a family with difficult circumstances, so I left home at the age of 17
Until the age of 22 I did what I had to do in order survive, needless at that time my faith in the lord was not strong.
I worked a lot, was very lonely and met all the wrong men.
I am ashamed to admit I've done a lot of sins, I would not blame the men I met because it was my responsibly to protect my body and soul, but I was young and felt abandoned by everyone - my parents, my friends and god as well.

When I turned 22 I met a guy, the best guy I ever met, he showed me the way, showed me how real love should look like, explained to me that a'll I've been through was a test from God, that God is strongest for us in our most difficult moments, today I'm in such different place in my life thanks to him, thanks to Jesus.

Just sometimes it is hard for me to believe that God will forgive me after all my sins, I want to be a good wife and mother and I pray every day God will give me strength to do that

First of all well done to you for turning your life around:) It is really great to read about someone who has found happiness.

I don't know if you're Catholic or not, but if you are you can attend what is known as general confession. This is where you go to confession and before you start to tell the priest about the sins you have committed point out to him that you wish to make a general confession because you've been away from the sacraments for a long time.

Then you proceed to make a confession retelling the sins that you have committed since you last confessed.

trust me when I say that you will be forgiven and you will receive full absolution when you make your confession.

sbsquarepants

hinault wrote: »

trust me when I say that you will be forgiven and you will receive full absolution when you make your confession.

This is like the get out of jail free card in Christianity- do what ever you want, say your sorry - clean slate. Those are the rules!

hinault

sbsquarepants wrote: »

This is like the get out of jail free card in Christianity- do what ever you want, say your sorry - clean slate. Those are the rules!

It would be wholly erroneous to make the mistake of suggesting that Confession is a licence to commit sin.

RikuoAmero

hinault wrote: »

It would be wholly erroneous to make the mistake of suggesting that Confession is a licence to commit sin.

That is the logical conclusion of of what it is you said here

trust me when I say that you will be forgiven and you will receive full absolution when you make your confession.

i.e. Go to confession, and you will be forgiven, you will receive absolution. You provided no qualifiers or conditions there, just stated "Do X, and Effect Y will happen".
By the way...why should we trust you? My first reaction when I hear "trust me" from a complete stranger is to distrust them.

sbsquarepants

hinault wrote: »

It would be wholly erroneous to make the mistake of suggesting that Confession is a licence to commit sin.

Have you heard of many cases where absolution was refused?

In fact isn't there a set of automatic absolution doors in the Vatican? Simply walk through and emerge sin free? I don't think they open them very often, but they are there.

MrPudding

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Have you heard of many cases where absolution was refused?

In fact isn't there a set of automatic absolution doors in the Vatican? Simply walk through and emerge sin free? I don't think they open them very often, but they are there.

Are you getting confused with the movie Dogma? Surely there can't be something that utterly stupid in real life...?

MrP

eviltwin

hinault wrote: »

It would be wholly erroneous to make the mistake of suggesting that Confession is a licence to commit sin.

Saying sorry is one thing but should you not still be punished for your wrong doings? Its just a bit mad to think I could kill a bunch of people and get into heaven by saying confession but if I do something minor and die without it I'm doomed.

sbsquarepants

MrPudding wrote: »

Are you getting confused with the movie Dogma? Surely there can't be something that utterly stupid in real life...?

MrP

No, they are there - unless my tour guide made it up that is. Half of this stuff is so <snip> crazy that it's basically impossible to know if they are being serious or not!

hinault

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Have you heard of many cases where absolution was refused?

In fact isn't there a set of automatic absolution doors in the Vatican? Simply walk through and emerge sin free? I don't think they open them very often, but they are there.

Have you heard of many cases where absolution was refused?

hinault

eviltwin wrote: »

Saying sorry is one thing but should you not still be punished for your wrong doings? Its just a bit mad to think I could kill a bunch of people and get into heaven by saying confession but if I do something minor and die without it I'm doomed.

A rather simplistic example which bears no correlation to what Confession is and the obligations that go with Confession.

lazybones32

sbsquarepants wrote: »

This is like the get out of jail free card in Christianity- do what ever you want, say your sorry - clean slate. Those are the rules!

You're not far off the mark. God is willing to wipe the slate clean...as often as needs be. Christ truly is the "get out of jail free" Man.

aaakev

lazybones32 wrote: »

You're not far off the mark. God is willing to wipe the slate clean...as often as needs be. Christ truly is the "get out of jail free" Man.

So take a serial child sex offender who thinks himself a devoted Catholic andconfesses his sins, is he to be forgiven just like that and have eternal happiness in heaven?

hinault

aaakev wrote: »

So take a serial child sex offender who thinks himself a devoted Catholic andconfesses his sins, is he to be forgiven just like that and have eternal happiness in heaven?

The sincerity of ones confession is a determinant.

One of the obligations of confession is to be sincerely contrite for the sins that one has committed and to be sincere in seeking absolution.

aaakev

hinault wrote: »

The sincerity of ones confession is a determinant.

One of the obligations of confession is to be sincerely contrite for the sins that one has committed and to be sincere in seeking absolution.

Im sure on their deathbed they would be sincere but maybe not. just because someone is sincere in asking for forgiveness does not mean they deserve it. The only person who can forgive the likes of the person i mentioned above is their victims, not a priest or a god

hinault

aaakev wrote: »

Im sure on their deathbed they would be sincere but maybe not. just because someone is sincere in asking for forgiveness does not mean they deserve it.

In Catholic teaching which all Catholics know, God is the only being who can fully and accurately determine the sincerity of each persons repentance.

It's pointless for a Catholic to attend Confession knowing that he/she is not sincerely contrite for the sins that they have committed and which they confess. They know that if their contrition is not sincere, they remain in a state of sin.

aaakev wrote: »

The only person who can forgive the likes of the person i mentioned above is their victims, not a priest or a god

I disagree.

MrPudding

hinault wrote: »

In Catholic teaching which all Catholics know, God is the only being who can fully and accurately determine the sincerity of each persons repentance.

It's pointless for a Catholic to attend Confession knowing that he/she is not sincerely contrite for the sins that they have committed and which they confess. They know that if their contrition is not sincere, they remain in a state of sin.

FYP. You're welcome.

MrP

lazybones32

aaakev wrote: »

So take a serial child sex offender who thinks himself a devoted Catholic andconfesses his sins, is he to be forgiven just like that and have eternal happiness in heaven?

God would prefer to forgive, than to exclude them from His presence. He is willing to forgive but the person must put themselves in a position to receive it. God may forgive me for some faults I've committed but that doesn't mean I don't have to live with the consequences - it means that the relationship between He and I is restored.

boatbuilder

Just to put my two cents in here....
With regard to God testing people, I don't really think that's so true.
God tested Adam and Eve and they failed the test by sinning and it all went downhill from there for mankind. Every person on the planet after that day has also failed the test. Which is why a saviour was needed to pay for those sins. So I don't buy the testing thing. God already knows mankind has failed that test.
No matter what sins you've done you can be sure you're in good company...ie every single person in the world is in the same boat and isn't it just great that God has the power to wipe the sins away completely for those who believe in him, put their trust in him and attempt to live as he wants us to (although we all fail at that as well!)

hinault

lazybones32 wrote: »

God would prefer to forgive, than to exclude them from His presence. He is willing to forgive but the person must put themselves in a position to receive it. God may forgive me for some faults I've committed but that doesn't mean I don't have to live with the consequences - it means that the relationship between He and I is restored.

Confession can be best described as an act of will too.
The penitent by going to Confession does so as an act of will.

The external action of going to the Confessional, verbally stating the sins committed and verbally seeking forgiveness for those sins is one aspect.

The other aspect is the interior intent that informs each person making their confession.
The interior intent should be sincere contrition for the sins committed and to sincerely seek forgiveness for those sins confessed.

Deranged96

Really horrible how most of the comments are trying to pervert her experience with religion or posing questions to her as if she's a child and hasn't questioned her belief herself... then it degenerates into general idiocy.

No OP, If you're keeping an eye on this thread still, I don't think you've anything to worry about.. As someone pointed out you regret past indiscretions and that's enough for God according to what I've heard. If you haven't reconnected with your family though maybe you should look into that, unless the situation which caused you to cut ties still persists.

Family and friends and maybe members or leaders of your church would be better able to ease your thoughts than anybody from the online world

jungleman wrote: »

Okay firstly that sounds like a guy has taken advantage of your vulnerability and filled your head with typical Christian guilt. As in, you suffered so much because "god" wanted you too. But now you have pleased him so everything is okay.

Secondly, more Christian guilt. You don't need "god" to forgive you. You don't need anyone to forgive you. You have done nothing wrong,

<MOD SNIP: Read charter before making such remarks. >

Interesting fact*... "Catholic guilt" is actually something of a paradox as the phrase was original born the sentiment "Oh shure Catholics are a people who can commit sins without guilt because all they have to do is confess and its like they're good as gold" . Yet today it has the exact opposite meaning! Same for "luck of the Irish".

I know you say Christian guilt but I like that bit of knowledge
*May be a product of my imagination

sbsquarepants

aaakev wrote: »

Im sure on their deathbed they would be sincere but maybe not. just because someone is sincere in asking for forgiveness does not mean they deserve it. The only person who can forgive the likes of the person i mentioned above is their victims, not a priest or a god

If you are to follow it to its logical conclusion, the paedo who says sorry goes to heaven - the child who can't forgive what's happened goes to hell.
Welcome to the whacky world of Christianity!:D

ScumLord

boatbuilder wrote: »

God already knows mankind has failed that test.

It's not that mankind failed the test, two people failed the test and god held every human that ever existed after accountable for that failure they had no part in making. It's a bit racist if you ask me.