The Vegans

VickieVexed

As some others on here have said, the vegans/vegetarians are not the ones starting these (frequent) threads on other peoples lifestyle choices. I don't agree with hunting, but I'm not going to start a thread attacking those who enjoy it, we all have the right to our opinions and likes.

What I do find amusing however, is how much time and effort some people put into ridiculing the choices others have made. Surely your time would be better spent enjoying your lovely burger/steak [insert choice of meat here].

Zombienosh

ugh, this thread again.

Egginacup

Friend of mine is a vegan. she's also very attractive, quite slutty and is a pisshead. so i like vegans.

jamesbere

How can someone go through life and make the decision not to eat bacon anymore................................mmmmmmmmmmmmmm bacon.

eviltwin

Why does someone else's eating habits bother you so much? Bizarre.

AnimalChin

jamesbere wrote: »

How can someone go through life and make the decision not to eat bacon anymore................................mmmmmmmmmmmmmm bacon.

How original.

Xerxes75

Could never eat a vegan diet, I value my health. I try to eat close to a primal diet as much as I can.

Ososlo

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I know someone raising a vegan 3 year old. That's practically child abuse!!

I know people raising kids and giving them processed food for every meal.

I know vegan parents who only give their kids only wholesome natural foods.
I know which kid I'd rather be.

What a stupid thing to say.

BeerWolf

Vegans speaking about morality and "ethics" annoy the hell out of me...

That being said, I could live on an all out vegan diet perfectly fine... if it were something like a southern Indian dish like Dahl and Dosai!

Xerxes75

Ososlo wrote: »

I know people raising kids and giving them processed food for every meal.

I know vegan parents who only give their kids only wholesome natural foods.
I know which kid I'd rather be.

What a stupid thing to say.

It's not really, they are missing out on valuable nutrients that only animal products will provide.

inforfun

Not for me that vegan thing.
I hate shopping so want it done as fast as possible.

Went shopping once with someone who was trying to get as close as possible to being vegan.
Every single ****ing label had to be read if there wasnt something "bad" in the ingredients.
Thought i would never leave the shop.

One eyed Jack

wretcheddomain wrote: »

No, it's not the name of a new family television series...

The thing with many vegans is how they immediately jump to the moral high ground, claiming that we omnivores are somehow morally inferior to their enlightened wisdom.

...


What's AH's view on the moral claim of vegans - do you believe they have the moral edge they claim to possess?

Some people will always find some way to make themselves feel superior to other people. Like those anti-smoking pains in the faces -


Are people who smoke weak-minded?

Ososlo

Xerxes75 wrote: »

It's not really, they are missing out on valuable nutrients that only animal products will provide.

Like?
I'd say the kid eating chicken nuggets has the perfect superior diet alright.
Any vegans I know are way healthier than most meat eaters.

jimgoose

You mean some crowd with a particular set of beliefs is claiming moral high ground and general superiority over the rest of us? In Ireland? Nah, don't buy it.

eviltwin

BeerWolf wrote: »

Vegans speaking about morality and "ethics" annoy the hell out of me...

That being said, I could live on an all out vegan diet perfectly fine... if it were something like a southern Indian dish like Dahl and Dosai!

They annoy everyone, even other vegans. But I can't say I've ever met one. Most people don't give a sh1t what other people eat.

eviltwin

Xerxes75 wrote: »

It's not really, they are missing out on valuable nutrients that only animal products will provide.

Cutting out entire food groups and not replacing them will impact on your health. If you do your research and make sensible substitutes you'll be fine.

kylith

Only vegan I know is grand; she doesn't bother us, we don't bother her. I'm having her round for a meal at the weekend and am looking forward to stretching my culinary abilities a bit.

Lau2976

Most vegans don't give two s**** what people eat. Yeah it would be great if everyone didn't eat rotting animal flesh! Is t going to happen in this lifetime? No, probably not.

Most vegans (or at least the many I have met) don't take a moral high ground, and the ones that do usually don't do it in front of you. You think 'Peace-flower' the vegan animal loving hippy hates you? wait til you hear what she says to other vegans about you!

But surely you can understand why some would believe that their superior? To a lot of vegans eating meet is like cannibalism, do you think your morally superior to cannibals? I'm not saying vegans are (leaving all personal beliefs aside) but it's not hard to recognize why they think they are.

jimgoose

Lau2976 wrote: »

...But surely you can understand why some would believe that their superior?...

They can believe whatever be playsin' 'em. It means more bacon for me. Huzzah!

Egginacup

I went on a 2 week yoga retreat one time to a Greek Island and the grub was amazing. It think it was vegan but it was certainly vegetarian. Gallons of mint water and jasmine tea on the table, bowl after bowl of salads with ripe tomatoes, onions, olives, basillicum, rocket, fava beans, chick peas, hummus, oil lime, juice, vinegar, carrot soup, lentil dhals, bean curries, nan and pita breads and on and on. I was only there for the holiday. The girlfriend was doing the yoga but I just gorged myself on this gear every day. My skin was so clear, my eyes were much bluer, my hair was thicker and oilier, my finergnails became clear and shiny with no cracks in them, etc.

I was still on the piss down in the taverna while the yogis were having their early nights and I was having Kostas make me grilled sardines and a pint of Mythos every morning for breakfast but damn the benefits of all that lovely veggie stuff and loads of fruit too.....strawberries, oranges, grapes in abundance......were noticeable.

I could eat like that all the time but I do need to have fish and/or meat once in a while and I couldn't do without dairy...well I could I'm just addicted to pints of ice cold milk and half a pack of chocolate chip cookies

I don't get vegans same way as I don't get people who get tattoos on their faces. They're perfectly free to do what they want. It's just not me. And on the animal cruelty issue I agree with them and for this I could be accused of being a coward. I like meat and I love animals and animal cruelty sickens me. I just don't have the balls to witness whatever suffering a four-legged or two-winged friend might have to endure so that I can have a meat dish.

Aongus Von Bismarck

I spent a month travelling around Southern India and Sri Lanka a number of years back. Ate loads of vegan food. Good spicing makes everything taste lovely.
I'd rather not have a vegan or vegetarian round at one of our dinner parties though. Always find it tiresome having to rustle up something specially for them.

Tar.Aldarion

wretcheddomain wrote: »

No, it's not the name of a new family television series...

The thing with many vegans is how they immediately jump to the moral high ground, claiming that we omnivores are somehow morally inferior to their enlightened wisdom.

Thus, the claim to be vegan is simultaneously the insult that all of us are somehow less morally in-tune than they are.

Of course, I'm open to changing my mind, but I've not yet come across a persuasive argument as to why we should consider them our moral superiors.

I would argue that animal suffering is worsened by veganism. If you assume, for the sake of argument, that everyone were to morph into a vegan overnight, we would surely have to let the animals go - as otherwise it would be animal slavery, right? So, watch as nature rips the animal's body apart limb from limb - send the footage to the nearest vegan and see how impressed they are now that everyone adheres to their line of thinking.

Nature is much more savage than any well-intentioned farm.

What's AH's view on the moral claim of vegans - do you believe they have the moral edge they claim to possess?

You hit the nail on the head with why many people get defensive around vegans, they think they are judging them. However they are not. That is a you thing. You find the stance to be something that inherently makes you wrong, which makes you feel defensive, that is not the vegans fault. Is somebody living in a third world country helping out those in need concerned what some lad thinks or concerned with the welfare of people?

We don't go around concerned with moral superiority, the very point of veganism is the opposite, compassion and equality. You can't have that for animals and not for people, you must approach things with compassion. We are more likely to think we are not doing enough than to think anything badly of others, and would rather aspire to be a better person. We don't do it to feel better, we do it to make others feel better.

This guy has a great AMA on reddit, he is a holocaust survivor, was in concentration camps and now at 80+ years old still campaigns for both humans and other animals.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2h8df0/i_am_an_80yearold_holocaust_survivor_who/

wretcheddomain

I think many people are missing the point and are, instead, attacking a litany of straw men.

I'm not claiming that all vegans claim the moral high ground, but a sizeable amount do - and quite proudly. What's more is that my original point stressed the intrinsic nature of veganism, that is to say, a decision premised on ethical grounds. By extension, this must infer that those of us who merrily consume meat are somehow less ethical than vegans. That's the claim I begun by challenging.

Quite a few of you wonder why I'd start a thread about other people's lifestyles. After all, it's their choice, right?

• Some vegans impose this choice on their children.
• Some vegans impose this choice on obligate carnivores (some pets).

I think given the seriousness of these issues, it's worth discussing not only for non-vegans, but also for vegans who are repulsed by the arguments that extend to children and obligate carnivores.

Moreover, there is irony - a great way to finish a post. Many of you are complaining about why I'd start a thread complaining about something so banal - such as other people's diets. Well, I'm sure many of you understand the irony lurking therein.

kylith

Lau2976 wrote: »

Most vegans don't give two s**** what people eat. Yeah it would be great if everyone didn't eat rotting animal flesh! Is t going to happen in this lifetime? No, probably not.

If you're eating rotting flesh then you've gone wrong somewhere. A new fridge may be in order.

eviltwin

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I think many people are missing the point and are, instead, attacking a litany of straw men.

I'm not claiming that all vegans claim the moral high ground, but a sizeable amount do - and quite proudly. What's more is that my original point stressed the intrinsic nature of veganism, that is to say, a decision premised on ethical grounds. By extension, this must infer that those of us who merrily consume meat are somehow less ethical than vegans. That's the claim I begun by challenging.

Quite a few of you wonder why I'd start a thread about other people's lifestyles. After all, it's their choice, right?

• Some vegans impose this choice on their children.
• Some vegans impose this choice on obligate carnivores (some pets).

I think given the seriousness of these issues, it's worth discussing not only for non-vegans, but also for vegans who are repulsed by the arguments that extend to children and obligate carnivores.

Moreover, there is irony - a great way to finish a post. Many of you are complaining about why I'd start a thread complaining about something so banal - such as other people's diets. Well, I'm sure many of you understand the irony lurking therein.

Rubbish. I'm a non smoker, non drinker. I don't look down on those who do or consider myself better. I'm mostly vegan, I still eat eggs, and I'm the only person I know who doesn't eat meat or dairy. I don't look down on my family or my friends. I don't force my children to have a non meat diet. Live and let live is my motto. I couldn't care less what people eat. I think this is all in your head.

Shenshen

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I think many people are missing the point and are, instead, attacking a litany of straw men.

I'm not claiming that all vegans claim the moral high ground, but a sizeable amount do - and quite proudly. What's more is that my original point stressed the intrinsic nature of veganism, that is to say, a decision premised on ethical grounds. By extension, this must infer that those of us who merrily consume meat are somehow less ethical than vegans. That's the claim I begun by challenging.

Quite a few of you wonder why I'd start a thread about other people's lifestyles. After all, it's their choice, right?

• Some vegans impose this choice on their children.
• Some vegans impose this choice on obligate carnivores (some pets).

I think given the seriousness of these issues, it's worth discussing not only for non-vegans, but also for vegans who are repulsed by the arguments that extend to children and obligate carnivores.

Moreover, there is irony - a great way to finish a post. Many of you are complaining about why I'd start a thread complaining about something so banal - such as other people's diets. Well, I'm sure many of you understand the irony lurking therein.

Do you assume that everyone who makes an ethical choice about something in life will look down on those who choose differently?

If you give money to charity, do you look down on people who don't?
If you decided to walk rather than use the car, do you look down on people who don't?
If you buy organic fruit and veg and buy your meat at your local butchers, do you look down on people going for the less expensive option?

I would say this post does say a lot about yourself, and very little about vegans.

wretcheddomain

eviltwin wrote: »

Rubbish. I'm a non smoker, non drinker. I don't look down on those who do or consider myself better. I'm mostly vegan, I still eat eggs, and I'm the only person I know who doesn't eat meat or dairy. I don't look down on my family or my friends. I don't force my children to have a non meat diet. Live and let live is my motto. I couldn't care less what people eat. I think this is all in your head.

For those who are slower on the uptake, I'll try again.

Implicit in the claim of veganism is the idea that animal suffering should be curbed (yes, there may be a ridiculously small % of vegans who are that way purely because they dislike the taste of meat, but leaving those aside). This is the same as saying that they have an ethical edge over those who eat meat.

Am I suggesting that all vegans care about meat eaters? No. Am I suggesting that all vegans think they're morally superior? No. They don't even need to think about this point for it to be true. It's an entirely independent argument irrespective of how many vegans think about it. Have I got it through to you yet?

The same is true of religion. Implicit in religion is the idea that morals derive from a supernatural authority. No religious person even needs to think or utter this for this assumption to be validly taken - it is simply implicit in the definition. As a result, I will develop counter-arguments to show why this implicit idea is, in fact, a false one. This really isn't that difficult to grasp.

Moreover, I note you conveniently dismiss my points on children and obligate carnivores, as evidently you realise this is an actual reality.

lolo62

I have no problem with vegans in general in fact I admire their commitment.
I don't admire anal people though and have found a lot of vegans are...
For example I once had a Hare Krishna ask me if I had ever thought about what meat smells like as it's moving through my system. I simply replied..eh, no.
Not sure if he was vegan or just vegetarian but it's an example of the mentality I'm talking about.
Sounded to me like someone who thinks his **** don't stink!

fizzypish

I don't think the Vegans are taking a moral high ground. If they are its a moral Island, out in the moral pacific in an area I've no interest in invading. Besides, when the Apocalypse comes we can eat them. They won't have that nasty taste that most meat eating creatures have. Its a bit like veal ... or so I'm told.....

jimgoose

wretcheddomain wrote: »

...Implicit in the claim of veganism is the idea that animal suffering should be curbed...

The best way to eliminate animal suffering is with a .308 Winchester, or else round all of them up into something like a giant donkey sanctuary covering a third of the planet. :pac: