2015 NFL Superbowl XLIX

nerd69

Seahawks

adrian522 wrote: »

Well Montana didn't have salary cap issues, but every other team was in the same position as SF. Yet there aren't other QB's with anything like the same body of work. Montana's first 2 superbowls were not on world beating teams either.

I believe Montana would have been just a successful in the current era, when lets face it it's a lot easier to be a QB than it was in the 1980's.

Joe also had good success both in college and later in Kansas without the all star receiving corp.

None of which is to say that Joe was the GOAT or head and shoulders above Brady or Unitas or anyone else, just that I don't think you can dismiss what he's done simply because there was no salary cap.

oh i dont mean to dimiss montana in the slightest brady has had points in his favour as well I'm more arguing the original posters premise that brady was luck and that the argument is not close.

NotYourYear20

Seahawks

Morrisseeee wrote: »

An amazing game that had nearly everything, just a pity it didn't end with BeastMode running it in and getting an MVP award !

Great play by Butler and he should have been MVP, because without him there's no Lombardi trophy for the Pats. He actually had a great game.

Amazing how this one play redefines everything though !!!

One fact I found interesting about Brady, he's 2-24 on passes greater than 20 yards in the SB !! He was second to only Alex Smith in percentage of passes completed over 10 yards outside the hashes this year at 12%.
So..........why can't teams lock down that short passing game ?!

All this talk about Brady being the GOAT is presumably just Patriotism, it's not even close when you consider Montana's record of 11 SB TD's and 0 Int's and 127.8 passer rating.

Tom Brady is an elite QB, thrives under pressure, has great determination and he's on anyone's shortlist if you're in need of a QB but..............he's also one lucky son-of-a-bitch.

Lucky? Christ, even the most ardent hater would even go down that road or come out with that nonsensicalness. I'm a Steelers fan and I hate him because of his dominance, but I have to admire his brilliance. Overcoming two 14 points leads against the Ravens, overcoming the biggest Superbowl deficit of all time, the guy is always doing the impossible. You'll also find a lot of analyst's and lot of sports media outside of NE have taken their collective hats off after Sunday's performance and acknowledged him as the GOAT. No team could pass against the Seahawks probably one of the greatest defense of all time, they way Brady did at will on Sunday.

Those two two fantastic 4th quarter drives to win the game. And you come out with some meaningless stat about deep passes. I mean seriously? You think that's all football is about? Here's the other way of looking at it. There are few, If any QBS that could take the snap, decide upon their read, make a lighting fast decision to pick a target and pass the ball, all within 2 - 2.5 seconds. Peyton Manning was crushed, humiliated and bamboozled by the same Seahawks defense last year. Brady wasn't and probably because he has just has too much fight & cluchtness in him to allow that to happen.

Ya it's a team game, but the Pats have won 4 Superbowls and their common denominator on every team has been Brady. He has won 4 super bowls with 4 different teams and different receiving corps that weren't stocked with All-Pros. The guy owns all the real important records. You know? The post season stuff and you think he's lucky? Come on man, cos that joke ain't even funny. When it comes to the GOAT, Montana and Brady are out on their own for me, but after Sunday, I'd probably put Brady just a step in front. Now I'd just wish he'd hang up his cleats and go away.

tgdaly

Seahawks

NotYourYear20 wrote: »

Lucky? Christ, even the most ardent hater would even go down that road or come out with that nonsensicalness. I'm a Steelers fan and I hate him because of his dominance, but I have to admire his brilliance. Overcoming two 14 points leads against the Ravens, overcoming the biggest Superbowl deficit of all time, the guy is always doing the impossible. You'll also find a lot of analyst's and lot of sports media outside of NE have taken their collective hats off after Sunday's performance and acknowledged him as the GOAT. No team could pass against the Seahawks probably one of the greatest defense of all time, they way Brady did at will on Sunday.

Those two two fantastic 4th quarter drives to win the game. And you come out with some meaningless stat about deep passes. I mean seriously? You think that's all football is about? Here's the other way of looking at it. There are few, If any QBS that could take the snap, decide upon their read, make a lighting fast decision to pick a target and pass the ball, all within 2 - 2.5 seconds. Peyton Manning was crushed, humiliated and bamboozled by the same Seahawks defense last year. Brady wasn't and probably because he has just has too much fight & cluchtness in him to allow that to happen.

Ya it's a team game, but the Pats have won 4 Superbowls and their common denominator on every team has been Brady. He has won 4 super bowls with 4 different teams and different receiving corps that weren't stocked with All-Pros. The guy owns all the real important records. You know? The post season stuff and you think he's lucky? Come on man, cos that joke ain't even funny. When it comes to the GOAT, Montana and Brady are out on their own for me, but after Sunday, I'd probably put Brady just a step in front. Now I'd just wish he'd hang up his cleats and go away.

I wouldn't say Brady was lucky either. In fact to be fair he was unlucky against the Giants two times (this from a Giants fan). Two unbelievable catches from below average receivers, and just facing Eli in the playoffs where he always plays his best football, and some of the best defensive ends to ever play the game cost him from having 6 rings

Also isn't there a saying about the great players always creating their own luck? Butler isn't in a position to make that amazing play, and Carroll isn't put under pressure to make that call, if Brady doesn't deliver a clutch drive to make the score 28-24

raze_them_all_

Seahawks

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-am/0ap3000000468183/Carroll-wired-during-Super-Bowl-XLIX?campaign=Facebook_video_carroll



this amuses me

nerd69

Seahawks

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-am/0ap3000000468183/Carroll-wired-during-Super-Bowl-XLIX?campaign=Facebook_video_carroll



this amuses me

that sherman gif is still the best

Morrisseeee

Looking at the 'play that redefines everything' again, and from different angles, I've come to the conclusion that's it's actually a decent play, it just needs execution. It's not a brilliant play because Wilson will be throwing into a tight window and directly at the defender and there's not much room for error.

It's just poorly executed by the offense, and brilliantly executed by Butler.

Wilson's throw is away from Lockette, Lockette is moving slowly and lazily and it's as if he doesn't expect to be tackled. From Butler's perspective, he anticipates the play, he sees Lockette moving so jumps the route, but Wilson is throwing directly at him, he launches himself at the ball and does brilliantly to make the tackle and hold onto the ball.

The Pats win and history is re-written.

adrian522

Seahawks

One question that really needs to be asked of the Seahawks is how they burned the play clock right down on that play. There were 61 seconds left when Lynch was tackled, just 26 seconds left when they snap the ball, leaving them in a situation where they are struggling to get all their plays off if they don't turn the ball over.

It was a bad play call, bad clock management and bad execution. Wilson was late with the throw and should have realised it wasn't on and just thrown the ball away.

In any case if you look at lockette on the play there is a good chance even if he makes the play that he is tackled short of the goal line.

Morrisseeee

I think they were waiting for the Pats to call a T/O, but it never happened. I was reading an article yesterday about the pro's and con's and consequences of calling or not calling a T/O wrt to both teams. It gave the probability of a win for both teams and I think it favored the Seahawks, but only marginally by maybe 0.3 or something.

Earlier I said Lockette was moving slowly but maybe it's because Wilson just didn't get the ball out sooner. Maybe the better play is if Lockette does a double move and darts back to the corner of the endzone, then at least Wilson is throwing away from the defender and if it's not caught it's also highly unlikely to be intercepted.

BKWDR

Seahawks

adrian522 wrote: »

In any case if you look at lockette on the play there is a good chance even if he makes the play that he is tackled short of the goal line.

Given how well Butler hits him, granted he got the pick, but if he hadn't i don't think they would have broken the goal line either.

Realt Dearg Sec

Seahawks

BKWDR wrote: »

Given how well Butler hits him, granted he got the pick, but if he hadn't i don't think they would have broken the goal line either.

He'd be better off not catching it(as long as it isn't intercepted and assuming he didn't get a touch down from the reception) because then the clock stops, you run on third, time out if you don't score, enough time for a fourth down run with no comeback from New England. Im guessing that was the logic they were applying. It's far more baffling that the patriots didn't call a time out. If Seattle had scored on that drive they weren't giving themselves enough time to go back down the field at all. This idea that that's just the genius of bb doesn't wash. The genius or stupidity of both coaches is being judged far too much on a set of circumstances that seem far out of their own control.