Informing public premises of carrying a gun

kerry4sam

Now from the offset I have to say that I know nothing about firearms, in any capacity so I hope you can answer the following for me, for Peace of Mind:

Tonight at work someone checked-in informing me he was down for some shooting and informed me of his dogs etc but never said anything about wanting to bring his firearm into the hotel.

Checking in other guests I see him walking across the lobby holding this case with both arms, as if carrying a gun.
~ Are you allowed bring a firearm into a public business eg hotel without permission from the business?
~ Are you allowed move your firearm around at will once licenced to you?

Duty-manager at time said leave him off; a local told me to phone the station so I did after running it back by the duty-manager and asked could they run a check on him. The female Guard rang back saying that a Guard would like to call out to meet him.

Now, An Garda Síochána and I have serious issues and I don't trust them to take necessary action when they should (but that's not the issue here) & I waited for 40-mins past my time to finish in event they wanted any info from me.
They, night-porter & I went to room; he was not there but they checked first, then I (he never told me he would be bringing a gun into his room) and found the case and a gun inside. The man nowhere to be found though (could be walking his dogs and opted not to walk back in with a paddy-wagon at reception).

What's the procedure in these circumstances from your own perspective?
~ Are you allowed bring a firearm into a public business eg hotel without permission from the business?
~ Are you allowed move your firearm around at will once licenced to you?

Many Thanks,
kerry4sam

kerry4sam

Just to add:

Maybe you are allowed to carry your firearm in to a public business without their permission and carry around at will once licenced to you as

~ The 3Gardaí who showed up tonight left the gun in the room. I informed them I was leaving as my shift was over and she told me that their shift was over too and they left the hotel & drove off!

Drove off leaving the firearm in the hotel room without speaking to the person who brought it in, whether registered to him or not.

So looking back, maybe you can do that afterall,
I would like a definite answer from someone in the know though if possible.
kerry4sam

Cass

kerry4sam wrote: »

~ Are you allowed bring a firearm into a public business eg hotel without permission from the business?

That would be up to the hotel owner/management.

There is another aspect. A firearm must be securely stored when not in use. At home, and depending on the level of security the person must have, this would include (but not limited to) disassembly, in a gun safe, all this with an alarm.

Obviously this is not possible in a hotel as at home, but it raises the question of what is secure storage. If the hotel has a safe that can hold the gun it might be securely stored, but others have access to the safe which negates the secure part of storage as only the owner/licensee should have access to the gun. If it's in their room, with a key component removed and they are in the room all the time this might suffice. Locked in a car, with a component part removed might also constitute secure, only when not at home.

~ Are you allowed move your firearm around at will once licensed to you?

Yup.

Legally it doesn't even have to be cased in public, but there is an addendum that states if the gun is "brandished" in a threatening manner then this constitutes an offence. IOW if you had an over and under shotgun, had it broken (opened), with no cartridges in the gun, and it down by your side then it's not threatening. If you have it closed and are carrying it in the ready to fire position (loaded or not) then this could be classed as threatening. It's very subjective, the language used.

Duty-manager at time said leave him off; a local told me to phone the station so I did after running it back by the duty-manager and asked could they run a check on him. The female Guard rang back saying that a Guard would like to call out to meet him.

Not being a smart arse but i cannot think of another way to ask. What exactly did whomever called the Gardaí expect to be told. The Data protection act would not allow a Garda to give information on a firearms licensee/owner to anyone else. So whether licensed or not, you would not be told. I assume this is the reason they told you someone would call out. That would be SOP for anything relating to a firearm being involved.

The man nowhere to be found though (could be walking his dogs and opted not to walk back in with a paddy-wagon at reception).

I'd hope not. If the gun is legal and licensed then not walking back in because An Gardaí were outside/there is stupid because:

• They only need to check the serial of his gun to find out who he is.
• They could seize the gun and he'd have to go to them to recover it
• He has, in his mind i'm sure, done nothing wrong.
• He would assume the AGS being there has nothing to do with him

What's the procedure in these circumstances from your own perspective?

That is no one's call but An Gardaí.

What is the hotels policy on firearms in the hotel? If you allow it then if it was noticed that he had a gun (in a case) it should have been brought up with him, he should have been informed of the hotels policy, and then he should have acted accordingly depending on the wishes/policy of the hotel. Also he should have made it clear himself when entering, but more importantly he should have rang ahead and asked the policy before traveling.


Now all his is the "prim and proper" thing to do. I'm not suggesting turning a blind eye, or trying to "pull a fast one", but hotels in areas where this would be common or frequent have policies and can deal quietly and quickly with it. They also understand the secrecy most gun owners attach to the fact they own firearms. We have to be more security conscious than most and usually we don't spread the word that we have guns, especially when traveling. So there is the chance the chap thought saying nothing was doing the right thing. IOW the less people know he has a gun the less of an issue it is.


If the Gardaí left the gun i'd like to think they radioed in and done a check. If so and it's registered and that name matches the name you have on the room then the gun is legal. If they left it in the room then they must be satisfied there is no issue.

Other than staff and the guest can anyone else enter the room? Was the gun sitting on the bed or stored away in a non obvious place?

kerry4sam

Cass wrote: »

That would be up to the hotel owner/management.

There is another aspect. A firearm must be securely stored when not in use. At home, and depending on the level of security the person must have, this would include (but not limited to) disassembly, in a gun safe, all this with an alarm.

Obviously this is not possible in a hotel as at home, but it raises the question of what is secure storage. If the hotel has a safe that can hold the gun it might be securely stored, but others have access to the safe which negates the secure part of storage as only the owner/licensee should have access to the gun. If it's in their room, with a key component removed and they are in the room all the time this might suffice. Locked in a car, with a component part removed might also constitute secure, only when not at home.

Yup.

Legally it doesn't even have to be cased in public, but there is an addendum that states if the gun is "brandished" in a threatening manner then this constitutes an offence. IOW if you had an over and under shotgun, had it broken (opened), with no cartridges in the gun, and it down by your side then it's not threatening. If you have it closed and are carrying it in the ready to fire position (loaded or not) then this could be classed as threatening. It's very subjective, the language used.

Not being a smart arse but i cannot think of another way to ask. What exactly did whomever called the Gardaí expect to be told. The Data protection act would not allow a Garda to give information on a firearms licensee/owner to anyone else. So whether licensed or not, you would not be told. I assume this is the reason they told you someone would call out. That would be SOP for anything relating to a firearm being involved.

I'd hope not. If the gun is legal and licensed then not walking back in because An Gardaí were outside/there is stupid because:

• They only need to check the serial of his gun to find out who he is.
• They could seize the gun and he'd have to go to them to recover it
• He has, in his mind i'm sure, done nothing wrong.
• He would assume the AGS being there has nothing to do with him

That is no one's call but An Gardaí.

What is the hotels policy on firearms in the hotel? If you allow it then if it was noticed that he had a gun (in a case) it should have been brought up with him, he should have been informed of the hotels policy, and then he should have acted accordingly depending on the wishes/policy of the hotel. Also he should have made it clear himself when entering, but more importantly he should have rang ahead and asked the policy before traveling.


Now all his is the "prim and proper" thing to do. I'm not suggesting turning a blind eye, or trying to "pull a fast one", but hotels in areas where this would be common or frequent have policies and can deal quietly and quickly with it. They also understand the secrecy most gun owners attach to the fact they own firearms. We have to be more security conscious than most and usually we don't spread the word that we have guns, especially when traveling. So there is the chance the chap thought saying nothing was doing the right thing. IOW the less people know he has a gun the less of an issue it is.


If the Gardaí left the gun i'd like to think they radioed in and done a check. If so and it's registered and that name matches the name you have on the room then the gun is legal. If they left it in the room then they must be satisfied there is no issue.

Other than staff and the guest can anyone else enter the room? Was the gun sitting on the bed or stored away in a non obvious place?

Thanks for this detailed reply.

~ Storage: Not in any safe (no safe in room, only at front-desk). Lying in-sight at side of bed, obvious as you walk in.
~ Not in room when Guards arrived. Speculation here only on his where-abouts so won't (only noticed a back-door near his room that I'd closed had been re-opened when who-ever opened it could've just walked through reception to get out).
~ The Guard asked for the guests Date-of-Birth to check for me over the phone; don't know of any hotel who gathers Dates-of-Birth with reservations so not sure what she expected.
~ Yeah I raised issue with duty-manager who said 'leave him off' after a guest walked into hotel with what looked like a firearm & without permission. Something I will raise with our GM tomorrow. Think guests I was checking in when we saw him were as shocked as I was.
~ No hotel policy; never happened before which is why I asked a local with his head-srewed-on for his thoughts on this. I would not be able to sleep tonight had I not done something, in event something had happened. I believe he should have asked & informed hotel of his plan.

~ An Garda Síochána are responsible for State Security. A man brought a firearm into a hotel without permission and to be told by the female Guard that their shift was over and they left was not surprising to me. It would be on them if something happens and they left without completing the checks and speaking with the person who brought a firearm into the hotel without permission but they didn't seem to care too much about that.

Thanks again for your detailed reply. I've alot to learn on this area and have been following the mega-thread on Garda proposals to ban firearms out of interest on the area and will follow the Oireachtas meetings next-week also to see how they go.

Thanks,

mrbrianj

The guy informed you he was going shooting. The duty officer did not have a problem, but you proceeded to call the guards?
I could understand if you questioned the hotels policy- but the gun is safer secured in the room, than an unattended car. Cars get broken into more often than hotel rooms.

If he has a legally held shotgun , then he has been vetted by the guards already.

cerastes

kerry4sam wrote: »

Now from the offset I have to say that I know nothing about firearms, in any capacity so I hope you can answer the following for me, for Peace of Mind:

Tonight at work someone checked-in informing me he was down for some shooting and informed me of his dogs etc but never said anything about wanting to bring his firearm into the hotel.

Checking in other guests I see him walking across the lobby holding this case with both arms, as if carrying a gun.
~ Are you allowed bring a firearm into a public business eg hotel without permission from the business?
~ Are you allowed move your firearm around at will once licenced to you?

Duty-manager at time said leave him off; a local told me to phone the station so I did after running it back by the duty-manager and asked could they run a check on him. The female Guard rang back saying that a Guard would like to call out to meet him.

Now, An Garda Síochána and I have serious issues and I don't trust them to take necessary action when they should (but that's not the issue here) & I waited for 40-mins past my time to finish in event they wanted any info from me.
They, night-porter & I went to room; he was not there but they checked first, then I (he never told me he would be bringing a gun into his room) and found the case and a gun inside. The man nowhere to be found though (could be walking his dogs and opted not to walk back in with a paddy-wagon at reception).

What's the procedure in these circumstances from your own perspective?
~ Are you allowed bring a firearm into a public business eg hotel without permission from the business?
~ Are you allowed move your firearm around at will once licenced to you?

Many Thanks,
kerry4sam

Maybe you put the two together and no one else suspected this?
How was he holding it as if a gun? perhaps you just thought he was? was he aiming the case at anyone? if he was just carrying it and supporting whatever weight it has and wasn't in anyway threatening, I cant visualise how he was holding it as if it was a gun? Im sure he'd have been best to transport it as promptly and discreetly to his room if thats allowed, but if its not specifically disallowed? he probably was not expecting someone to enter his room.
As for where it was left, maybe it'd have been better under the bed out of sight in case someone did get in or come in legitimately. Id have considered it better for him to say nothing to any staff there as the kind of attention this might get off people here have would only serve to blow it out of proportion (and cause a security concern, ie people now know).
If you alert no-one, you then maintain secrecy, is it possible he enquired off a manager before this? and that a manager might decide not telling all and sundry about it is better for everyone?

afatbollix

The guy did nothing wrong.


Would you ring the gaurds for someone bringing a cake knife into a hotel? Both can do damage but its what you do with said item that make it harmless.

kerry4sam

mrbrianj wrote: »

The guy informed you he was going shooting. The duty officer did not have a problem, but you proceeded to call the guards?
I could understand if you questioned the hotels policy- but the gun is safer secured in the room, than an unattended car. Cars get broken into more often than hotel rooms.

If he has a legally held shotgun , then he has been vetted by the guards already.

Thank You. I've had guests inform me they were going shooting before but none brought firearms into the hotel afterwards, none seen in public areas or in rooms by staff members at any point.
That's just it. Still unknown if has been vetted; if that was indeed the man who signed the reg form. No ID verified against that of gun.

Seriously like, I don't care if he put another name/address on a reg-form, only for the gun he would've have raised my head so I'd be none the wiser.
But the local Guards left at end of shift without verifying any details of man in room; name on reg-card; licenced to carry a firearm to begin with, never mind the one he brought in without permission. No ID checked or verified. That's annoying me here also.

cerastes wrote: »

Maybe you put the two together and no one else suspected this?
How was he holding it as if a gun? perhaps you just thought he was? was he aiming the case at anyone? if he was just carrying it and supporting whatever weight it has and wasn't in anyway threatening, I cant visualise how he was holding it as if it was a gun? Im sure he'd have been best to transport it as promptly and discreetly to his room if thats allowed, but if its not specifically disallowed? he probably was not expecting someone to enter his room.
As for where it was left, maybe it'd have been better under the bed out of sight in case someone did get in or come in legitimately. Id have considered it better for him to say nothing to any staff there as the kind of attention this might get off people here have would only serve to blow it out of proportion (and cause a security concern, ie people now know).
If you alert no-one, you then maintain secrecy, is it possible he enquired off a manager before this? and that a manager might decide not telling all and sundry about it is better for everyone?

~ I believe security should be paramount. A firearm was brought on premises with hotel with nearly 100pax on site and no-one was informed about it. Yeah alarm bells went of for me on this.
The local Guards didn't care so perhaps that's a sign not to take notice of someone with a firearm - I don't think so! I have serious concerns over firearms. I have said above though that I am trying to gain more knowledge on this area but until then I am going to be concerned when I see someone with a firearm in a public place, with near on 100-pax and there without permission.
That's just the person that I am. Just because someone says ah sur 'leave him off' does not mean they are right to say that. A local didn't even hesitate in saying 'phone the Guards' and the duty-manager then changed his stance about phoning. Persuasion and common-sense prevailed.
Peace of Mind as said above.

Permission should have been sought; clarity should've been found on whether he could have a firearm on his possession; eventhough he said he was going shooting does not mean he is allowed access to a firearm at all; & yeah I would want to know if someone in my place of work is carrying a firearm and they only 20-feet from me and closer still to other guests.

Thanks again for your thoughts and replies,
kerry4sam

kerry4sam

afatbollix wrote: »

The guy did nothing wrong.


Would you ring the gaurds for someone bringing a cake knife into a hotel? Both can do damage but its what you do with said item that make it harmless.

He brought a firearm into a hotel without permission - that is doing something wrong right there. If nothing to hide; if vetted and allowed firearm; if firearm he had was indeed his and verified and checked with ID then okay. He opted not to seek permission nor inform he brought a firearm into hotel.

Hotel room-locks can malfunction. The battery-life can end at any time. That could've happened in any room at any time. A firearm was lying at side of bed in view of who-ever walked in tonight. A firearm that was there without permission.
Yeah I have issues about that.

I've had training before on fighting off a knife attack personally (as a GardaReserve) and only used that training once IRL before. A gun is different and hopefully you can see that.

Thank You for your reply though,
kerry4sam

afatbollix

Was there bullets in or by the gun?

At the end of the day it was just a lump of metal otherwise.


As the saying goes guns don't kill people people do.

I have to say I live in the UK where its more acceptable to go shooting and most people would have no problem doing what they did in your hotel tonight. I would rather he kept the firearm in the room than a car in the car park. I have heard of loads of cars and vans robbed in hotel car parks.

obplayer

Now I should say I am not a fan of firearms but I cannot see what this guy did wrong. He has permission to own a shotgun, he is staying in the hotel so he can use this gun for some local shooting, what is he supposed to do other than keep it in his room? As a previous poster has pointed out it would be less safe in his car.

obplayer

kerry4sam wrote: »

He brought a firearm into a hotel without permission - that is doing something wrong right there. If nothing to hide; if vetted and allowed firearm; if firearm he had was indeed his and verified and checked with ID then okay. He opted not to seek permission nor inform he brought a firearm into hotel.

Hotel room-locks can malfunction. The battery-life can end at any time. That could've happened in any room at any time. A firearm was lying at side of bed in view of who-ever walked in tonight. A firearm that was there without permission.
Yeah I have issues about that.

I've had training before on fighting off a knife attack personally (as a GardaReserve) and only used that training once IRL before. A gun is different and hopefully you can see that.

Thank You for your reply though,
kerry4sam

Does the law require permission? If so can you link to the relevant statutes? I will say again, I do not like firearms and prefer that people do not have them but that is a different issue to whether this chap did anything wrong.

cerastes

kerry4sam wrote: »

Thank You. I've had guests inform me they were going shooting before but none brought firearms into the hotel afterwards, none seen in public areas or in rooms by staff members at any point.
That's just it. Still unknown if has been vetted; if that was indeed the man who signed the reg form. No ID verified against that of gun.

Seriously like, I don't care if he put another name/address on a reg-form, only for the gun he would've have raised my head so I'd be none the wiser.
But the local Guards left at end of shift without verifying any details of man in room; name on reg-card; licenced to carry a firearm to begin with, never mind the one he brought in without permission. No ID checked or verified. That's annoying me here also.



~ I believe security should be paramount. A firearm was brought on premises with hotel with nearly 100pax on site and no-one was informed about it. Yeah alarm bells went of for me on this.
The local Guards didn't care so perhaps that's a sign not to take notice of someone with a firearm - I don't think so! I have serious concerns over firearms. I have said above though that I am trying to gain more knowledge on this area but until then I am going to be concerned when I see someone with a firearm in a public place, with near on 100-pax and there without permission.
That's just the person that I am. Just because someone says ah sur 'leave him off' does not mean they are right to say that. A local didn't even hesitate in saying 'phone the Guards' and the duty-manager then changed his stance about phoning. Persuasion and common-sense prevailed.
Peace of Mind as said above.

Permission should have been sought; clarity should've been found on whether he could have a firearm on his possession; eventhough he said he was going shooting does not mean he is allowed access to a firearm at all; & yeah I would want to know if someone in my place of work is carrying a firearm and they only 20-feet from me and closer still to other guests.

Thanks again for your thoughts and replies,
kerry4sam

I can appreciate where you are coming from, but the reaction firearms gets here is good enough reason to say nothing, this isnt a bad example, he's been vetted, people up to no good dont inform a hotel they are off out shooting.
You said he was carrying a case, Im still not clear how he was carrying it as if a firearm, if he was delaying getting to the room, then maybe he shouldnt have, but anyone else might think its a trumbone case? maybe? Its possible if I was in that scenario, Id only mention this to the most senior manager available and want no one in my room or otherwise informed, maybe he did some of that? I dont know.
Is permission necessary? I thought that wasnt clear?

It seems less likely to me that a room will be broken into than opened by a member of staff, but presumably there is more security in a hotel than a car or the car park and anyone outside the hotel staff is less likely to attempt anything as trying to get into a room by? breaking the door down isnt likely to go unoticed or maybe be successful.

FISMA

kerry4sam,

So, recapping:
(1) you're ignorant of your work place policy on firearms
(2) you're ignorant of firearm transportation and storage laws, yet...
(3) yourself and the duty manager gave the fella the auld - "work away, shure, t'is grand."
(4) then, you call the Guards and
(5) enter a room without a warrant

Does that about cover it?

Would you please let us know what hotel you work at so that we may ensure that we never stay there.

I really hope this lad finds this post and lets us know.

kerry4sam wrote: »

So looking back, maybe you can do that afterall,

:rolleyes:

kerry4sam wrote: »

I would like a definite answer from someone in the know though if possible.

You came to the internet, well done!

Next stop, after hours.

Cass

kerry4sam wrote: »

That's just it. Still unknown if has been vetted; if that was indeed the man who signed the reg form. No ID verified against that of gun.

As i said above the Gardaí cannot release such information. The fact they left would be a strong indicator that they are satisfied.

I have serious concerns over firearms.

Why?

I have said above though that I am trying to gain more knowledge on this area but until then I am going to be concerned when I see someone with a firearm in a public place, with near on 100-pax and there without permission.

The tone is changing from general questioning to gain facts to alarmist "rantings" about guns in public. If the guy brought it in, cased, in a non threatening manner, and did not publicly declare it or draw attention to himself then he was in NO WAY a threat and i fail to see how trying to link his possession (legal as the Gardaí left it there) to there being other guests there is anything other than alarmist.

Sorry if you take offence to that, but as said your tone seems to bee changing and i'm seeing "won't someone think of the children" type of tone creeping in.

A local didn't even hesitate in saying 'phone the Guards' and the duty-manager then changed his stance about phoning.

Answer these please:

• Did you tell a "local" that someone at your hotel was in possession of firearm?
• Was he a Garda or someone else with authority to know?
• Did you create a security risk simply by divulging this information?
• Was the person a firearm owner or in any way competent to issue advice on the matter?
• Were they simply paranoid because a firearm was the topic of conversation?

Permission should have been sought;

If that is hotel policy then yes it should have been.

clarity should've been found on whether he could have a firearm on his possession;

If he is licensed then he can have it. There is no "grey area" on this point. If the Gardaí checked and left, then it has to be okay. They would not risk anything by leaving a firearm. Even if the person was licensed i've seen lads have their firearms taken from them, and have to jump through hoops to get it back when no law was broken. The Gardaí do not take firearm issues lightly.

even though he said he was going shooting does not mean he is allowed access to a firearm at all;

Yes it does. In fact having it in his possession is the only legal thing he can do. As i said above secure accomodation is a necessity (at home & in transit), but if none exists then having it in his possession is the safest place for the gun to be.

& yeah I would want to know if someone in my place of work is carrying a firearm and they only 20-feet from me and closer still to other guests.

Again i dislike the tone of these comments. He was not "carrying" it as though it were an Uzi under his trenchcoat. It was, what you assumed to be, a firearm and i say assumed because thus far you have said that the only place it was out of the case was in his room when the Gardaí opened the case. All within the law and legal.

And once again the issue of guests being in the hotel is a non issue. As a legally licensed firearm owner his only thoughts towards the other guests were most likely "i don't want anyone else to know i have a firearm". For security reasons. The less that know the better as no one is likely to try and rob it.

kerry4sam wrote: »

He brought a firearm into a hotel without permission - that is doing something wrong right there.

As said the law does no prohibit this. So legally he has broken no law and at worse hotel policy.

Hotel room-locks can malfunction. The battery-life can end at any time. That could've happened in any room at any time. A firearm was lying at side of bed in view of who-ever walked in tonight. A firearm that was there without permission.
Yeah I have issues about that.

I understand your concerns, but other than you telling other people, and then calling the Gardaí no one else obviously knew about it. Also as you know nothing about firearms you don't know if it was functioning. I always remove the bolts, foreend, etc. from my guns when transporting. Makes them useless. Was this done?

I've had training before on fighting off a knife attack personally (as a GardaReserve) and only used that training once IRL before. A gun is different and hopefully you can see that.

No, i cannot.

You are attempting, whether purposely or unintentionally to link a possible shooting incident to the innocent act of someone walking in with a CASED firearm.

As said multiple times, i dislike the tone change and where this thread is going.

mrbrianj

Btw, do you usually discuss your guests business with a 'local'.

Surely as a Garda reserve you'd have some knowledge of security of information, but then you also have serious issues with the guards???

Which / where is the hotel?

FISMA

kerry4sam wrote: »

~ The 3Gardaí who showed up tonight left the gun in the room. I informed them I was leaving as my shift was over and she told me that their shift was over too and they left the hotel & drove off!

So while ye're getting paid to Inspector O'Clouseau, it's go time for Zulu Chalk. But come time to clock out, feck it - drive on?

C'mon kerry4Sam, what's the craic at the pub like?:p

riffmongous

But surely leaving it a hotel room in a case while not being present isn't safe? I would never do that myself, I'd rather keep it with me, same goes for anything valuable

cerastes

riffmongous wrote: »

But surely leaving it a hotel room in a case while not being present isn't safe? I would never do that myself, I'd rather keep it with me, same goes for anything valuable

It doesn't seem so, but you can hardly keep something like that with you either? what if you decide to get something to eat and maybe have a drink? then it seems less appropriate to keep near you.

Cass

Going to the shop, walking his dog, going out for a smoke, meeting someone outside, going to the take away/restaurant. Five reasons of the top of my head why he wouldn't have the gun and why leaving it in the room is the safest (legal) option.

So far the only "fault" i can see is whether or not the chap at the centre of all this notified anyone he had, or was bringing in a firearm. As i said above it's not illegal, just possibly against hotel policy, which also has not been established.

After that i can see 6 or 7 faults in how the situation was handled that are more alarming to me than anything the gun owner done.

Witcher

Man tries to store the gun with minimal fuss or attention.

Instead he ends up with;

- The OP

- The duty manager

- A random local

- The night porter

- and several Gardai either knowing his business and/or ploughing into his room.

The smarter and more secure way to handle it would have been to quietly have a word with him when he returned;

'Hi Mr. X, I'm just wondering if that was a firearm you brought upto your room a few minutes ago? I remember you said you were down for some shooting'

'Yes, it was'

'That's fine, would you mind if we just contacted the local Gardai and verified your licence, the legalities etc?'

FISMA

Strider wrote: »

Man tries to store the gun with minimal fuss or attention.

Had he been committing a crime, no-one would want to be involved.

riffmongous

But would most of those not be no less safe than normal transport, esp public transport? Of course not if I was going for a drink/restaurant.. But I just wouldn't do that myself in this case I guess, I wouldn't like to have it out of my sight and not in a safe

Stheno

riffmongous wrote: »

But surely leaving it a hotel room in a case while not being present isn't safe? I would never do that myself, I'd rather keep it with me, same goes for anything valuable

Better leaving it in a locked room where one could reasonably expect it to be undisturbed, particularly if any ammunition was e.g locked in the boot of his car?

cerastes

Strider wrote: »

Man tries to store the gun with minimal fuss or attention.

Instead he end up with;

- The OP

- The duty manager

- A random local

- The night porter

- and several Gardai knowing his business and ploughing into his room.

This is the concern to me, everyone now knowing and getting spread around the place till someone you dont want knowing knows.

I think it would it have been more appropriate to wait till the guest was around before or when getting the gardai into his room at least enquiring off him beforehand of any specifics assuming there is any requirement, he'd have been able to clear details up or with the gardai with his licence, I wouldnt show anyone other than a garda mine as it has specific details on it I want no one knowing. I dont even think the gardai were ever required in this situation. Id be unhappy non Garda were around/had seen or were present with or had access to and accessed my firearm without permission when I could reasonably expect they wouldnt be and that is good enough reason to be secretive/discreet.
Id prefer a secure safe still, but how likely is that? either in actuality or secure?
Where were his dogs in all this? if he is in the hotel?

riffmongous

Stheno wrote: »

Better leaving it in a locked room where one could reasonably expect it to be undisturbed, particularly if any ammunition was e.g locked in the boot of his car?

Sorry if I have this all wrong now since I am not in the Irish law jurisdiction but I wouldn't be allowed to have a rifle not safely locked up in my own house (gun safe) right? Where no one else should have access so I wouldn't consider a normal hotel room to be safe to the same stamdard

Stheno

Agreed I'm not sure it a explicitly covered by law? What do competitors travelling to competitions do?

Cass

riffmongous wrote: »

But would most of those not be no less safe than normal transport, esp public transport? Of course not if I was going for a drink/restaurant.. But I just wouldn't do that myself in this case I guess, I wouldn't like to have it out of my sight and not in a safe

Which would you class as safer?

1. Locked hotel room where you should have the only access key and no one should know you have a firearm?
2. Back seat of a car with pedestrians walking by and looking in?

Get the idea? You choose the best option to you in the situation. As far as this guy knew he was the only one knew he had a firearm. As it turns out so did:

• Night porter
• OP
• "Local lad"
• Gardaí
• Anyone else within ear shot.

riffmongous wrote: »

....... but I wouldn't be allowed to have a rifle not safely locked up in my own house (gun safe) right?

The law (SI 307/2009) says these are minimum standards which include no gun safe and to have the gun disassembled and stored in separate places.

Where no one else should have access so I wouldn't consider a normal hotel room to be safe to the same stamdard

At home. So when not at home you make every effort to be as discreet as possible while staying within the law.

Cass

Stheno wrote: »

Agreed I'm not sure it a explicitly covered by law? What do competitors travelling to competitions do?

Competitions are held on ranges. There is nearly always (i've yet to see otherwise) secure accommodation on site or arranged.

However there is a big difference between an organised shoot and one lad going to a different area for a shot.

challengemaster

kerry4sam wrote: »

They, night-porter & I went to room; he was not there but they checked first, then I (he never told me he would be bringing a gun into his room) and found the case and a gun inside.

I'd imagine AGS are now at high risk of legal action for entering a hotel room and searching a persons belongings without a warrant and the hotel probably as well for defamation of character (due to you posting this thread) and emotional distress of the guest.

Cass

On that note i'm closing this thread.

It started off as an innocuous question but has quickly turned into something else. Something which i dislike, and with possible legal issues attached i'm shutting the thread until i can discuss it with the other Mods.

DO NOT start another thread. If i get the all clear this one will be re-opened and discussion can resume. However at 4 am i'm taking no chances.