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Matt Brammeier signs for MTN-Qhubka

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    #32
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Sarz91 wrote: »
    Another perspective


    You could see that coming. A few of the riders before hand almost over shot it


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    #33
    Sarz91
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Sarz91


    The thud is pretty sickening. Another two riders went down not that long after due to the motorbike stopping in the middle of the road.


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    #34
    StevieGriff
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭StevieGriff


    Jesus, he came into that very very hot. Horrible crash, hope he's not left with any lasting injuries.


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    #35
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,331 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    I don't think it's an overstatement to say that the crash could have been fatal.

    I wonder how so many of the riders misjudged the corner?


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    #36
    Thud
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭Thud


    looked like they were hitting some grit/sand so braking wasn't working effectively


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    #37
    68 lost souls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,984 ✭✭✭68 lost souls


    I hope he makes a speedy recovery, that was some impact. I wonder how bad the fractured pelvis is, an awful injury at any age. The fractured ribs could have led to a lot more complications as well.


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    #38
    happytramp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭happytramp


    68 lost souls wrote: »
    I hope he makes a speedy recovery, that was some impact. I wonder how bad the fractured pelvis is, an awful injury at any age. The fractured ribs could hhave led to a lto mroe complications as well.

    I don't know much about it but him not needing surgery is probably a good sign.


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    #39
    Subpopulus
    Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Subpopulus


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    I wonder how so many of the riders misjudged the corner?

    Here's the bend.
    https://www.google.ie/maps/@40.612899,-111.570904,3a,75y,353.37h,68.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8Mv-8MtR_Hc5ZvrcAJBZKQ!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

    From street view it looks like the approach was extremely steep, coming around a sweeping bend, and the hairpin would have appeared very quickly. It looks like Matt (and a few others) might have been trying to make up time by descending really fast around the sweeping bend and then weren't able to brake in time when they saw the hairpin. Although Matt looked out of control as he came up to that bend - might his brakes have failed?


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    #40
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Subpopulus wrote: »
    Here's the bend.
    https://www.google.ie/maps/@40.612899,-111.570904,3a,75y,353.37h,68.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8Mv-8MtR_Hc5ZvrcAJBZKQ!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

    From street view it looks like the approach was extremely steep, coming around a sweeping bend, and the hairpin would have appeared very quickly. It looks like Matt (and a few others) might have been trying to make up time by descending really fast around the sweeping bend and then weren't able to brake in time when they saw the hairpin. Although Matt looked out of control as he came up to that bend - might his brakes have failed?

    His team said he was chasing to get on.

    It looked like he lost his balance a couple of meters before the bend and then totally overshot


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    #41
    laraghrider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭laraghrider


    godtabh wrote: »
    His team said he was chasing to get on.

    It looked like he lost his balance a couple of meters before the bend and then totally overshot

    If you look at his exit line out of the previous corner that's where his problem started. He came out way too wide and hot and by the time he was braking for this corner he was on gravel and couldn't slow down. The phone camera vid from the bend itself picks it up better. Check out his exit line to all the other riders.


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    #42
    lennymc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,458 ✭✭✭lennymc


    some of the lines through that corner were quite poor. Hopefully he recovers quickly. Lucky it wasnt worse.


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    #43
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Lets all criticise the lines pro's take into a corner on a descent none of us have ridden...
    I mean we're all great cyclists, some of us have done sportifs and even A3/4 races as well....

    Get well soon Matt and hope you get back racing for next season.


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    #44
    Darkglasses
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭Darkglasses


    Subpopulus wrote: »
    Here's the bend.
    https://www.google.ie/maps/@40.612899,-111.570904,3a,75y,353.37h,68.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8Mv-8MtR_Hc5ZvrcAJBZKQ!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

    From street view it looks like the approach was extremely steep, coming around a sweeping bend, and the hairpin would have appeared very quickly. It looks like Matt (and a few others) might have been trying to make up time by descending really fast around the sweeping bend and then weren't able to brake in time when they saw the hairpin. Although Matt looked out of control as he came up to that bend - might his brakes have failed?

    Very unlikely it was a brake failure, but it seems almost everyone in the video wasn't getting the braking they were expecting. I'd say probably the road surface was deceptive. Matt in particular, you can see his rear wheel pops up - a result of braking so hard on the front, but then doesn't have the grip so just skids into the car.


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    #45
    lennymc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,458 ✭✭✭lennymc


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Lets all criticise the lines pro's take into a corner on a descent none of us have ridden...
    I mean we're all great cyclists, some of us have done sportifs and even A3/4 races as well....

    Get well soon Matt and hope you get back racing for next season.

    Alternatively, lets criticise the lines taken by the riders based on having studied the dynamics of how to get through a corner as quickly as possibly on two wheels, as well as identifying the racing line through a corner, and having descended quite a few big mountains with big switchbacks quite safely.

    I do hope Matt gets better soon, but do stand by my comment that some of the lines taken by some of the pros were quite poor. (I never singled out any rider in particular)


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    #46
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    lennymc wrote: »
    Alternatively, lets criticise the lines taken by the riders based on having studied the dynamics of how to get through a corner as quickly as possibly on two wheels, as well as identifying the racing line through a corner, and having descended quite a few big mountains with big switchbacks quite safely.

    I do hope Matt gets better soon, but do stand by my comment that some of the lines taken by some of the pros were quite poor. (I never singled out any rider in particular)

    Thats easy to say on a key board. A lot more difficult to do in a race situation no matter how many times you have done it in the past


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    #47
    TheBlaaMan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭TheBlaaMan


    I think he may have reason to believe he was rather fortunate......at the pace he was going, he was heading into the spectators and then into the trees at speed if the car hadn't been in his path.
    GWS


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    #48
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,331 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Lets all criticise the lines pro's take into a corner on a descent none of us have ridden...
    I mean we're all great cyclists, some of us have done sportifs and even A3/4 races as well..

    I don't see the problem with discussing the lines taken by the pros or any other incident. It'd be a pretty boring place otherwise :confused:

    None of us are saying we would do a better job.


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    #49
    lennymc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,458 ✭✭✭lennymc


    godtabh wrote: »
    Thats easy to say on a key board. A lot more difficult to do in a race situation no matter how many times you have done it in the past

    I've gone down the side of mountains in race situations here trying to chase back on on roads I did not know. I've gone down the side of pyrenean HC mountains on roads I've never been on before flat out. I've raced motorbikes around tracks where taking a corner wrong will either see you lose places or crash. I'm not having a go at any rider in particular, but, regardless of race situation or not, the lines taken by the majority of riders were pretty poor.

    Take a look at the 5th or 6th rider down (about 18 seconds) - he comes down and is on the RHS of the centre line, allowing him to turn in later and get nearer to the apex of the corner. He exits the corner under the rider who was beside him because he took a better line. He is also lined up for the next corner (assuming it a right hander (left would see them turn back into the mountain))

    Brammier's accident was terrible, and I really hope he recovers quickly.


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    #50
    onthefringe
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭onthefringe


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Lets all criticise the lines pro's take into a corner on a descent none of us have ridden...
    I mean we're all great cyclists, some of us have done sportifs and even A3/4 races as well....

    Get well soon Matt and hope you get back racing for next season.

    there are lots of things in life we take a view on without ever having done them..
    nobodys saying they are better or would have done better..
    they are just taking a view and expressing an opinion...


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    #51
    Subpopulus
    Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Subpopulus


    Darkglasses wrote: »
    Very unlikely it was a brake failure, but it seems almost everyone in the video wasn't getting the braking they were expecting. I'd say probably the road surface was deceptive. Matt in particular, you can see his rear wheel pops up - a result of braking so hard on the front, but then doesn't have the grip so just skids into the car.

    Yeah, I hadn't seen the first video at the time, which makes it clearer what happened.


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    #52
    laraghrider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭laraghrider


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Lets all criticise the lines pro's take into a corner on a descent none of us have ridden...
    I mean we're all great cyclists, some of us have done sportifs and even A3/4 races as well....

    Get well soon Matt and hope you get back racing for next season.

    I used to race single seater in my younger years but I've never driven Monza. That said I can look at an F1 race and see exactly why a driver crashed out on a corner. Should there be a minimum requirement that I had to be an F1 driver and also completed a few laps on Monza before I'm allowed to comment on anything? If we apply your logic to all sports jesus it would make boards a fierce boring place altogether.


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    #53
    tigerboon
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭tigerboon


    godtabh wrote: »
    His team said he was chasing to get on.

    It looked like he lost his balance a couple of meters before the bend and then totally overshot

    Looks like he was wide coming out of the previous bend and hit the dirt at the edge. Not uncommon in racing whether 2 or 4 wheel. Racers in all disciplines walk a fine line. Probably lucky he hit the car at that speed rather than the trees. Quick recovery hopefully.


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    #54
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    https://twitter.com/bikecomesfirst/status/630840758996742144


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    #55
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Lets all criticise the lines pro's take into a corner on a descent none of us have ridden...
    I mean we're all great cyclists, some of us have done sportifs and even A3/4 races as well....

    Get well soon Matt and hope you get back racing for next season.

    That's a rather strange and aggressive response from you.


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    #56
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Lusk_Doyle wrote: »
    That's a rather strange and aggressive response from you.

    Like the response here to Bassos cancer diagnosis I have to say I found the reaction to Matt Brammeiers accident off putting.
    Some times there is a time and a place for certain discussions and the immediate aftermath of an accident or diagnosis is not that place.
    Especially with an Irish cyclist there is a good chance family or friends could be reading this..


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    #57
    omri
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭omri


    Absolutely horrific crash...hope he gets well soon.

    I'm bit surprised that the support cars were mixing with the riders like this. Was that the end of the bunch that all involved in the crash with the car and motorbike were ? Did Matt comment on as to why he went so fast into that corner, its just seems very strange from these guys to make errors like this ? Would it be caused by the chaotic mix of riders and support vehicles ?


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    #58
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    godtabh wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/bikecomesfirst/status/630840758996742144

    Matt is obviously familiar with, and obeys Rule #5


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    #59
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Like the response here to Bassos cancer diagnosis I have to say I found the reaction to Matt Brammeiers accident off putting.
    Some times there is a time and a place for certain discussions and the immediate aftermath of an accident or diagnosis is not that place.
    Especially with an Irish cyclist there is a good chance family or friends could be reading this..

    What is wrong with stating the obvious that a number of cyclists that day had miscalculated the approach to the corner? I don't understand how that is insensitive to the man.


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    #60
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Lusk_Doyle wrote: »
    What is wrong with stating the obvious that a number of cyclists that day had miscalculated the approach to the corner? I don't understand how that is insensitive to the man.

    I agree completely, it's hardly insensitive.

    I'm hoping Matt is going to recover quickly.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #61
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,052 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Lusk_Doyle wrote: »
    a number of cyclists that day had miscalculated the approach to the corner?
    I'd agree if it was just one or two riders screwing it up, but the way I read it (from the Streetview and videos) is that the hairpin was a surprise for most and that many opted to scrub off speed rather than position for the corner perfectly.

    I don't think you can compare road racing to circuit racing to where you get sighting laps at low speed before the race even starts, and unless its the Nordschleife there aren't that many corners to remember.

    With hindsight you can look at the lead up and see the road through the trees on the LHS, or look ahead at where the treetops ahead are going, but these guys are chasing back on through traffic and a combination of factors probably distracted them.


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