Warhammer: Total War

Tony EH

Shiminay wrote: »

On the opposite side of the same coin Tony, I'd never have played a Total War game if they didn't take on Warhammer The Empire's cavalry is supposed to be very dominant as per the universe's lore, Chaos Knights, Dwarf Longbeards, Black Orcs etc are all similar. Wait till you get a Steam Tank or two...

That reminds me, I have a Dark Elves game to get back to

Sure. But then you could say that you were already a shoe in Shim re: Warhammer.


I know nothing about the lore, so compared to the rest of the Total War games, I'm pretty much in the dark.

Varik

Empire 2


1850s and 1860s you've got the US civil war, Crimean war, British Indian wars, Italian independence, Opium wars, Maori in NZ, and a couple in South America between new nations and old empires. It's already covered in Fall of the samurai but you've the boshin war as well, but the thing about this time period is that as far as the game needs to be concerned the factions would be even enough.

Dave_The_Sheep

Remouad wrote: »

Only problem with this is that it's limited to 2 factions.
Once they figure a way around that i guarantee this will be one of the saga games.

Honestly, I think it's perfect for a once off Saga type game. They will have to introduce more in terms of unit difference somehow - I mean it's basically Infantry (Line infantry, skirmishers, grenadiers, militia), Cavalry (not a whole lot of difference in the two sides or even on one side) and a few types of Artillery. IF they can introduce some sort of unit differences based on level and recruitment location and make it feel distinct, it could be great. It might also have to be a more guided campaign as opposed to sandbox which is what TW is all about. I'm ok with that experiment though.

Remouad

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

It might also have to be a more guided campaign as opposed to sandbox which is what TW is all about. I'm ok with that experiment though.

That's a good point. There were a couple of key battles in the war that they'll want to showcase.

Tony EH

So, it's half twelve at night and I've just finished tackling Chaos in my Dwarves campaign, which I've been playing since I got home (my Empire save got zapped somehow - very annoying). But, by christ, if that wasn't one of the most irritating things I've ever had to tackle in a Total War game. :mad:

By the time Chaos got to me, they had three full stack armies and my poor dwarves had a hell of a time trying to beat them, cos they're so bloody slow. You also can't run any fleer's down as you don't field cavalry and the helicoptor units are waaaay too inaccurate to sort them out. So, the Chaos armies escape with enough men to fight another day.

In an open battlefield, I wouldn't have stood a chance of beating them. But, the Chaos armies channelled themselves into the pass between Mount Gunbad and Mount Squighorn and I managed to atritt them piece by piece.

And as soon as they were done, the bloody Orcs declared war. Cheers guys. :rolleyes:

I know I'm late to the party with this game and all, but seriously? The map now is a wasteland, with half the factions wiped out, except for the northern tribes of dickheads who sued for peace after Chaos was dealt with. ****. I had no choice but to agree, as my lads were in pretty bad shape.

Chaos is just an annoying game mechanic that interferes with the player's game. It's almost as bad as that realm divide crap in 'Shogun 2'.

In future campaigns, I'm just going to send two or three massive armies north and fuck them up as soon as they appear on turn 80 or whatever.

Dave_The_Sheep

Tony EH wrote: »

And as soon as they were done, the bloody Orcs declared war. Cheers guys. :rolleyes:

Honestly, I have no idea how you managed to be at peace witht he Orcs, playing as the Dwarves.

Tony EH wrote: »

In future campaigns, I'm just going to send two or three massive armies north and fuck them up as soon as they appear on turn 80 or whatever.

Chaos appear based on a few things, I think turn timer is in there but one of the things that can fast forward their arrival is the player power.

Are you playing Warhammer 1 or 2 TW?

Tony EH

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Honestly, I have no idea how you managed to be at peace witht he Orcs, playing as the Dwarves.

Oh there was barney with the Greenskins, but I got rid of them before Chaos arrived. It was another Orc faction that decided to have a go, once Chaos was out of the way.

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Chaos appear based on a few things, I think turn timer is in there but one of the things that can fast forward their arrival is the player power.

Are you playing Warhammer 1 or 2 TW?

Warhammer 1. My power wasn't that great when Chaos started ripping up the place. I think I only had about three full provences. As of now, I own half the map, because Chaos did most of the work for me.

Also, I discovered that I didn't actually kill the main Chaos badguy. He's just dormant. Is this normal?

Cos if they're coming back, that sucks.

Christy42

Tony EH wrote: »

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Honestly, I have no idea how you managed to be at peace witht he Orcs, playing as the Dwarves.

Oh there was barney with the Greenskins, but I got rid of them before Chaos arrived. It was another Orc faction that decided to have a go, once Chaos was out of the way.

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Chaos appear based on a few things, I think turn timer is in there but one of the things that can fast forward their arrival is the player power.

Are you playing Warhammer 1 or 2 TW?

Warhammer 1. My power wasn't that great when Chaos started ripping up the place. I think I only had about three full provences. As of now, I own half the map, because Chaos did most of the work for me.

Also, I discovered that I didn't actually kill the main Chaos badguy. He's just dormant. Is this normal?

Cos if they're coming back, that sucks.

Yup. They are never as strong though as that first surge. Else I was just stronger in each of my campaigns by that point. They need dealing with and are annoying but the later waves were never the same threat to my existence as the first.

Tony EH

That's a poor game mechanic.

ancapailldorcha

Tony EH wrote: »

That's a poor game mechanic.

While I would agree, I think it is an attempt to fix a fundamental problem with the Total War formula. Once you hit a certain point, say 20-30 regions under your belt you're probably not going to lose the campaign and it becomes harder for one specific faction to mount any sort of real challenge against you.

The Chaos Invasion along with Realm Divide, Mongol/Timurid invasions and civil wars are attempts to remedy this and make for a more challenging end game. Personally, I think Chaos happens a little too soon but the Shield of Civilisation bonus to diplomacy is certainly nice and really makes it feel like you're uniting with the others to face a greater threat.

Twenty Grand

Tony EH wrote: »

That's a poor game mechanic.

It's the only thing that adds challenge to the late game.

My empire airs have beat off 4 waves of Chaos so far and it's been tough to keep them at bay.

Otherwise I'd have stomped all over the rest of the map with stean tank armies, gunners and greatswords.

Varik

Realm divided always pissed me off, if it had been that the AI was now more likely to ally with or against you that'd be one thing but the way it was is just stupid.

Tony EH

Twenty Grand wrote: »

It's the only thing that adds challenge to the late game.

My empire airs have beat off 4 waves of Chaos so far and it's been tough to keep them at bay.

Otherwise I'd have stomped all over the rest of the map with stean tank armies, gunners and greatswords.

It comes around 80 turns into the game. That's not late game to me.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a cheap way of "increasing" challenge. Spawn some silly uber powerful threat, instead of upping the quality of the AI in the other original factions.

Plus, Chaos wiped out most of the other factions in my Dwarf campaign, which meant that once I survived them, I had an easy run of things afterwards. Most of the map was a wasteland.

Tony EH

Varik wrote: »

Realm divided always pissed me off, if it had been that the AI was now more likely to ally with or against you that'd be one thing but the way it was is just stupid.

Yeh. It was the absolute worst thing about an otherwise brilliant game.

I think there was a mod made to eliminate it somewhere.

Remouad

Have taken a little hiatus from Total War for the last few months.
However this has me tempted to jump back in.

What do ye think?

ancapailldorcha

I hadn't realised that I wanted Giant Crab Calvary until I saw that. Wonder how the discussions were at CA on how ridiculous a sideways charge would look.

Varik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7tJELpDfKU

Just the sea shanty from the background of trailer.

A lot on the forums are very happy with this as it's cements that CA aren't limited to those factions from the table top with actual full army rosters/books and will take from the different sources.

Remouad

Think it would be great if there were quests to get new shanties
and that different shanties would give you different buffs in combat.
(loved the shanties in AC:Black Flag)

Think there's now more chance of them bringing out an Araby DLC.
(although it would look pretty tame next to undead pirates)

Don't know about anyone else but I'm in no rush for Warhammer 3.

Gbear

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I hadn't realised that I wanted Giant Crab Calvary until I saw that. Wonder how the discussions were at CA on how ridiculous a sideways charge would look.

Apparently they're based on hermit crabs, which scuttle forwards.

Gbear

I only got WH1 a little after Wood Elves came out, so I had most of the content from the get go and I never had to worry about any balance or performance issues there might have been early doors.

How does WH2 perform these days? How good is the performance of Mortal Empires?

I've heard of a few bugs, including one where reinforcing armies didn't work, so I wanted to wait until the game was in a good way before taking the plunge.

ancapailldorcha

Gbear wrote: »

I only got WH1 a little after Wood Elves came out, so I had most of the content from the get go and I never had to worry about any balance or performance issues there might have been early doors.

How does WH2 perform these days? How good is the performance of Mortal Empires?

I've heard of a few bugs, including one where reinforcing armies didn't work, so I wanted to wait until the game was in a good way before taking the plunge.

I've not played ME yet but I think the main game plays a bit smoother than the original though there is notable asset reuse. It also has some quality of life improvements. I'd recommend it but perhaps not at full price.

My landlord's sloppy painter is doing my room this weekend so I'm waiting to see if he doesn't trash my PC before picking up the Vampire Coast DLC though it looks great.

Gbear

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I've not played ME yet but I think the main game plays a bit smoother than the original though there is notable asset reuse. It also has some quality of life improvements. I'd recommend it but perhaps not at full price.

My landlord's sloppy painter is doing my room this weekend so I'm waiting to see if he doesn't trash my PC before picking up the Vampire Coast DLC though it looks great.

There's only so many ways you can make a tree or whatever, so I'm not too fussed about asset reuse. They do seem to have done really well with the breadth of of models they've used - surely far beyond anything seen before in Total War, where I assume there was only maybe 3 or 4 standard unit models with different skins dropped over them.

The monsters just look way more craic in WH2 and they've continued that theme with Vampire Coast.

I really want to get my hands on TRexs tearing rats to little bits, or the Tomb Kings giant skeleton archers. I'll probably pick it up next time there's a sale.

ancapailldorcha

Gbear wrote: »

There's only so many ways you can make a tree or whatever, so I'm not too fussed about asset reuse. They do seem to have done really well with the breadth of of models they've used - surely far beyond anything seen before in Total War, where I assume there was only maybe 3 or 4 standard unit models with different skins dropped over them.

The monsters just look way more craic in WH2 and they've continued that theme with Vampire Coast.

I really want to get my hands on TRexs tearing rats to little bits, or the Tomb Kings giant skeleton archers. I'll probably pick it up next time there's a sale.

I'm not talking about trees. I'm talking about pirates having the same units as the Empire from the previous game. There's a faction with Bretonnia's units along with a Dwarf one as well though the four playable races are all fresh and original.

I read that they got rid of some animations from the W1 factions in ME which I really hope isn't true.

I'm really enjoying the game and it does not suffer from the daft Politics systems of the recent historical titles.

killanena

Mortal Empires is good but prepare for a lot of down time for the first 150 turns or so even with it installed on an SSD it takes forever for each faction to take their turn.

ancapailldorcha

killanena wrote: »

Mortal Empires is good but prepare for a lot of down time for the first 150 turns or so even with it installed on an SSD it takes forever for each faction to take their turn.

Wonder how well they've balanced The Old World factions against the new ones. I can see the likes of the Bretonnians having issues as either of the Elven factions have a lot of counters to knights.

Shiminay

If you've not played an ME campaign, then you're doing it wrong It's fun, but a huge time commitment.

ancapailldorcha

Shiminay wrote: »

If you've not played an ME campaign, then you're doing it wrong It's fun, but a huge time commitment.

Aye, I figured that. So many campaigns I want to do. I suppose the first game is basically pointless now save for perhaps the mini-campaigns.

I was thinking Bretonnia or the Empire as with my clumsy campaign as the latter in the original I never really used their best units to the proper effect. The former are so heavily cavalry dependent so I'd be worried that they'd be nonviable save for the best Total War players. I'm just curious how viable the Old World factions are against both sets of Elves with their masses of AP missile units, dragons and elite infantry. The only thing they really lack is artillery.

Shiminay

Ah, the balancing had been decent, it was always meant to be balanced across the entire set of races in both games. Elves can be a bit squishy once you weather that storm of typical elf bs They've got lots of "specialist" units that allow for very different sorts of armies, but if they try picking some of everything, they get mashed. I still find the Wood Elves harder to play against.

ancapailldorcha

Shiminay wrote: »

Ah, the balancing had been decent, it was always meant to be balanced across the entire set of races in both games. Elves can be a bit squishy once you weather that storm of typical elf bs They've got lots of "specialist" units that allow for very different sorts of armies, but if they try picking some of everything, they get mashed. I still find the Wood Elves harder to play against.

Fair enough. Like how you used the term "Investment". My boss is a Destiny 2 addict and we debate now and then whether or not these are worthy uses for our time.

Don't see many Bretonnia let's plays on Youtube but figured they'd be more challenging which might help in late game. How are the Chaos invasions in ME?

Twenty Grand

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Fair enough. Like how you used the term "Investment". My boss is a Destiny 2 addict and we debate now and then whether or not these are worthy uses for our time.

Don't see many Bretonnia let's plays on Youtube but figured they'd be more challenging which might help in late game. How are the Chaos invasions in ME?

They're tough, and they keep coming back.

I had 5 different invasions iirc and some of their armies just hung around the North, not bothering to come south, so I had to hunt them down. Pain in the ass.