Apaches over the Curragh

ChicagoJoe

Larbre34 wrote: »

More likely the DF lads will travel to Britain to make use of the extensive field training facilities.

However I understand the surplus equipment includes 2 x Type 23 Frigates and a squadron of Tornado GR4A's with the latest avionics pack...;)

Or it could just be boxes of 7.62...

I certainly wouldn't be getting excited about the RAF by any means, they can barely afford to feed their personnel with cheese sandwiches for God's sake . Seen a program on Newsnight where they ran a story on major moral and staffing issues at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus. Things have gotten quite bad there with crews forced to eat some of the humanitarian rations that was meant for Iraqis as all they were being given were cheese sandwiches. Cuts have also meant only 16, out of the 102 Tornado's the Brits were in use, allegedly to bolstering the Bahrain emir's F16 and F5's with decrepit Tornado jets. The fighter equivalent of a 1990 Vauxhall Cavalier.

"Contracts at the base provide only for hot meals during the day, with snacks laid on at night. The air vice marshal, on hearing the complaints, went to a pallet of rations intended for air dropping to refugees in northern Iraq. He was "so disgusted by the 'cheese sandwiches' offered as meals to the night shift, he went and broke into a pallet of aid and handed it out as it was better than what we were feeding our airmen", said the serviceman's letter......... Half of these top specification jets are now in Akrotiri, but Newsnight has learned that due to their age and long use, the battle to keep them airworthy requires long hours of work by ground crews, particularly on the engines. On many days, just two or three of the Tornadoes are available for missions over Iraq."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30338659

Jawgap

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't be getting excited about the RAF by any means, they can barely afford to feed their personnel with cheese sandwiches for God's sake . Seen a program on Newsnight where they ran a story on major moral and staffing issues at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus. Things have gotten quite bad there with crews forced to eat some of the humanitarian rations that was meant for Iraqis as all they were being given were cheese sandwiches. Cuts have also meant only 16, out of the 102 Tornado's the Brits were in use, allegedly to bolstering the Bahrain emir's F16 and F5's with decrepit Tornado jets. The fighter equivalent of a 1990 Vauxhall Cavalier.

"Contracts at the base provide only for hot meals during the day, with snacks laid on at night. The air vice marshal, on hearing the complaints, went to a pallet of rations intended for air dropping to refugees in northern Iraq. He was "so disgusted by the 'cheese sandwiches' offered as meals to the night shift, he went and broke into a pallet of aid and handed it out as it was better than what we were feeding our airmen", said the serviceman's letter......... Half of these top specification jets are now in Akrotiri, but Newsnight has learned that due to their age and long use, the battle to keep them airworthy requires long hours of work by ground crews, particularly on the engines. On many days, just two or three of the Tornadoes are available for missions over Iraq."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30338659

.......and despite all that they are only one of two air forces in the world with a credible expeditionary capability......

ChicagoJoe

Jawgap wrote: »

It's more like a 'try-before-you-buy' scheme - we get their battle tested, if slightly secondhand gear and benefit from the various customisations and mods they've applied- if we like it and it suits us we go back and buy the new stuff.

Saves the DF being the beta-testers and working out the kinks for the manufacturers.

Well in fairness to the DF, I have yet to see them been first in the cue for new hardware, we leave it to those who develop it in the first place to prove it's worth. From guys I have talked to the Irish DF's personal equipment is much better than the Brits, the Styr v SA80 been a good example. Little to be learned from this so that cannot be learned with the Nordic Battle Group, it's just a symbolic little agreement for Charlie Flanagan to try and make a deal out of.

Jawgap

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

Well in fairness to the DF, I have yet to see them been first in the cue for new hardware, we leave it to those who develop it in the first place to prove it's worth. From guys I have talked to the Irish DF's personal equipment is much better than the Brits, the Styr v SA80 been a good example. Little to be learned from this so that cannot be learned with the Nordic Battle Group, it's just a symbolic little agreement for Charlie Flanagan to try and make a deal out of.

Well then, there shouldn't be too much in it to bother the Shinners and the crusties - even better, if we can earn a few shillings from it by getting the Brits to pay for some training all the better, especially the way the Euro is against Sterling.

ChicagoJoe

Jawgap wrote: »

.......and despite all that they are only one of two air forces in the world with a credible expeditionary capability......

Is that the same 'credible expeditionary capability' almost over run in Iraq and A'stan with the good old USA having to come to the rescue yet again


"A devastating report into the Afghanistan war has concluded that the British task force sent into Helmand was ill-equipped, under-resourced and too weak to defeat the Taliban. " http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8642525/Armed-Forces-too-weak-to-defeat-the-Taliban.html

Horse84

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

Maybe the shinners and crusties might have a point as shouldn't the Irish Defense forces be receiving new, up to date hardware than our shambles of a Govt taking clapped out hardware from a clapped out military ?

Lol do u seriously think the shinners give a damn about the quality of kit the defence forces get? They'd disband the lot it was left to them

Jawgap

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

Is that the same 'credible expeditionary capability' almost over run in Iraq and A'stan with the good old USA having to come to the rescue yet again


"A devastating report into the Afghanistan war has concluded that the British task force sent into Helmand was ill-equipped, under-resourced and too weak to defeat the Taliban. " http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8642525/Armed-Forces-too-weak-to-defeat-the-Taliban.html

Well I never......fancy that.......soldiers complaining - now there's something you don't see every day.

......and senior commanders playing at politics - I wonder if that's the first recorded instance of that happening.

.....and you know in all my years of studying various archival sources I've yet to come across a communication between a commander and a superior HQ where the subordinate says something like "all grand here. We have everything we need, and all our kit is brilliant" - or "no need to bother with those extra troops / equipment / air support / resources you were going to send us. We have enough." - three words no commander said, ever, in the history of warfare :rolleyes:

Horse84

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

I would have thought given their history, no one more than the SFers would be pro military ?? That is pro independent Irish military and not some ramshackle force supplied with 2nd hand equipment from a clapped out army

If u think Sinn Fein are pro defence forces and by that I mean the legal and only oglaigh na hEireann then I would strongly suggest u do some reading. This is off topic anyway, apologies.

ChicagoJoe

Horse84 wrote: »

If u think Sinn Fein are pro defence forces and by that I mean the legal and only oglaigh na hEireann then I would strongly suggest u do some reading. This is off topic anyway, apologies.

Well whatever you think. But this shinner believes that the Irish DF's deserve better than Flanagan and that gobshyte Shatta' before.

cruasder777

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

Well in fairness to the DF, I have yet to see them been first in the cue for new hardware, we leave it to those who develop it in the first place to prove it's worth. From guys I have talked to the Irish DF's personal equipment is much better than the Brits, the Styr v SA80 been a good example. Little to be learned from this so that cannot be learned with the Nordic Battle Group, it's just a symbolic little agreement for Charlie Flanagan to try and make a deal out of.

A British soldier in 2004 is unrecognisable from his 2015 counterpart, you really don't have a clue what you are on about.

The SA80 A2 is a totally re-designed weapon, the worlds most expensive assault rife, with Picatinny Quad-rails and even a laser light module.

In terms of personal issue kit, head cams, where soldiers are in direct communication with section commanders and HQ is now standard. Sections have Black Hornet, nano-drones which rely images directly back.


GPS, helmet displays, wrist-mounted displays, hand-held computers etc.

If anything the British army personal kit is light years ahead of practically everyone. Afghanistan has helped develop it rapidly.


http://www.army-technology.com/projects/fist/

sparky42

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

Well whatever you think. But this shinner believes that the Irish DF's deserve better than Flanagan and that gobshyte Shatta' before.

That's great, maybe you shinner could figure out whose actually the Minister for Defence, here's a hint it's not either of those:rolleyes:.

And yes Gerry and co, would happily gut the Defence Forces, I'm waiting to see the knots they tie themselves up in next year to avoid admitting that their little "thugs" were never Óglaigh na hEireann

sparky42

cruasder777 wrote: »

A British soldier in 2004 is unrecognisable from his 2015 counterpart, you really don't have a clue what you are on about.

The SA80 A2 is a totally re-designed weapon, the worlds most expensive assault rife, with Picatinny Quad-rails and even a laser light module.

In terms of personal issue kit, head cams, where soldiers are in direct communication with section commanders and HQ is now standard. Sections have Black Hornet, nano-drones which rely images directly back.

GPS, helmet displays, wrist-mounted displays, hand-held computers etc.

If anything the British army personal kit is light years ahead of practically everyone. Afghanistan has helped develop it rapidly.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/fist/

Second pretty much to the yanks and more than well ahead of us across the board in tech.

pablomakaveli

Jawgap wrote: »

Well I never......fancy that.......soldiers complaining - now there's something you don't see every day.

......and senior commanders playing at politics - I wonder if that's the first recorded instance of that happening.

.....and you know in all my years of studying various archival sources I've yet to come across a communication between a commander and a superior HQ where the subordinate says something like "all grand here. We have everything we need, and all our kit is brilliant" - or "no need to bother with those extra troops / equipment / air support / resources you were going to send us. We have enough." - three words no commander said, ever, in the history of warfare :rolleyes:

As the saying goes if a soldier isn't complaining he's probably dead.:D

skooterblue2

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

"A devastating report into the Afghanistan war has concluded that the British task force sent into Helmand was ill-equipped, under-resourced and too weak to defeat the Taliban. " http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8642525/Armed-Forces-too-weak-to-defeat-the-Taliban.html

The Telegraph? Firstly No one in 150 years has gone into Afghanistan and not been happy just to get out alive. The whole terrain conspires against the invading force. The valleys are too narrow for tanks, the rotar blades make pebbles fly up and destroy the Carbon fibre rotar blades, the air intakes suck in sand into the engines. Very soon the only advantage over there is knowledge of the terrain. You get drawn nto an Ambush where they are waiting for you.

You would think the British would have learned this the second time around.

MrConservative

Jawgap wrote: »

.......and despite all that they are only one of two air forces in the world with a credible expeditionary capability......

Though smaller in size the RAAF has a very potent and credible air expeditionary capability as well - synergetic with all USPACOM tempos and air warfare doctrines. Growlers, Shornets, Legacy Hornets, Wedgetails, C-17s, 130Js, MRTT's with JSF, P-8, Triton, 27J's et al soon to follow.

Cheers MrC

ChicagoJoe

Jawgap wrote: »

.......and despite all that they are only one of two air forces in the world with a credible expeditionary capability......

By the two I presume you mean the USAF and RAF - seriously :eek: Are you trying to tell me that that the Chinese, Russians, emerging super power India, France, Germany, Japan and probably Israel, Iran, North Korea haven't got what you call a " a credible expeditionary capability" air force !!!!

The Brit fan boys are always worth a laugh around here I'll give them that

Jawgap wrote: »

Well I never......fancy that.......soldiers complaining - now there's something you don't see every day.

......and senior commanders playing at politics - I wonder if that's the first recorded instance of that happening.

.....and you know in all my years of studying various archival sources I've yet to come across a communication between a commander and a superior HQ where the subordinate says something like "all grand here. We have everything we need, and all our kit is brilliant" - or "no need to bother with those extra troops / equipment / air support / resources you were going to send us. We have enough." - three words no commander said, ever, in the history of warfare :rolleyes:

Moan, bitch, moan, most soldiers just get on with the job, the Brits moan, the usual "lions led by donkeys....the enemy wouldn't fight the way we wanted them to blah, blah, blah". It seems to be ingrained in the Brit military mind somehow that they are some sort of super power of some kind and continually over estimate their ability and resources like our arrse.co.uk fan boys on here. And of course America once again has to come to the rescue. AFAIC, American and other coalition forces should consider them a liability and say next time “thanks guys – but no thanks”.

ChicagoJoe

cruasder777 wrote: »

A British soldier in 2004 is unrecognisable from his 2015 counterpart, you really don't have a clue what you are on about.

The SA80 A2 is a totally re-designed weapon, the worlds most expensive assault rife, with Picatinny Quad-rails and even a laser light module.

In terms of personal issue kit, head cams, where soldiers are in direct communication with section commanders and HQ is now standard. Sections have Black Hornet, nano-drones which rely images directly back.

The SA80 A2 is the world's most expensive assault rife - really :eek: I've searched but cannot find anything to back it up, but I'm sure you can

GPS, helmet displays, wrist-mounted displays, hand-held computers etc.

If anything the British army personal kit is light years ahead of practically everyone. Afghanistan has helped develop it rapidly.


http://www.army-technology.com/projects/fist/

GPS, helmet displays, wrist-mounted displays, hand-held computers - every day gadgets your average teenager has, of which you had to copy from the good old USA forces. But it's a wonder they have any money left after paying out for the the world's most expensive assault rife the SA80 A2 !!!! Re-engineered by German's Heckler & Koch I believe

skooterblue2

Chinese: too busy waiting on America to turn up with IOUs
Russians: Got the oil and Gas ... dont go there bambi
India: Too smart to get caught up in the crazy stuff
France : ? After Viet Nam..... Dont think so
Germany: Dont go there Bambi
Japan : Ditto
Israel, better for small scale stuff like ring and run
Iran : got motive and men but not the technology
North Korea : and what army?

Ever heard the story about the RA boys who went to North Korea and were kicked out for being too fat to fight? the Koreans thought they were soft and poor disciplined. hilarious bed time story.

ChicagoJoe

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Chinese: too busy waiting on America to turn up with IOUs
Russians: Got the oil and Gas ... dont go there bambi
India: Too smart to get caught up in the crazy stuff
France : ? After Viet Nam..... Dont think so
Germany: Dont go there Bambi
Japan : Ditto
Israel, better for small scale stuff like ring and run
Iran : got motive and men but not the technology
North Korea : and what army?

:eek: So what your trying to say is, the RAF is the world's leading air force !!!!!

Ever heard the story about the RA boys who went to North Korea and were kicked out for being too fat to fight? the Koreans thought they were soft and poor disciplined. hilarious bed time story.

Why does the IRA always have to be mentioned in any post by the assho1es from arrse.co.uk !!! If they were that easy of a push over, what does it say about the Brits who couldn't defeat them despite trying for 25 years

Jawgap

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

By the two I presume you mean the USAF and RAF - seriously :eek: Are you trying to tell me that that the Chinese, Russians, emerging super power India, France, Germany, Japan and probably Israel, Iran, North Korea haven't got what you call a " a credible expeditionary capability" air force !!!!

The Brit fan boys are always worth a laugh around here I'll give them that
.

Well, with the exception of India none of the countries listed has a carrier battle group capability - the Indians are closest to developing that capability. The Chinese and Russians haven't projected carrier borne air power beyond the littoral.

North Korea!!!!!! Hahahahahahahahahaha

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

Moan, bitch, moan, most soldiers just get on with the job, the Brits moan, the usual "lions led by donkeys....the enemy wouldn't fight the way we wanted them to blah, blah, blah". It seems to be ingrained in the Brit military mind somehow that they are some sort of super power of some kind and continually over estimate their ability and resources like our arrse.co.uk fan boys on here. And of course America once again has to come to the rescue. AFAIC, American and other coalition forces should consider them a liability and say next time “thanks guys – but no thanks”.

Soldiers complain, and moan - if they're not too hot, their cold or they're hungry or they've not got enough gear or they've got too much gear.......

ChicagoJoe

MrConservative wrote: »

Though smaller in size the RAAF has a very potent and credible air expeditionary capability as well - synergetic with all USPACOM tempos and air warfare doctrines. Growlers, Shornets, Legacy Hornets, Wedgetails, C-17s, 130Js, MRTT's with JSF, P-8, Triton, 27J's et al soon to follow.

Cheers MrC

Yeah, the Aussies have a fair ability and some serious air force. Capable lads the Aussies.

Jawgap

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

:eek: So what your trying to say is, the RAF is the world's leading air force !!!!!

Not the world's leading Air Force - no one suggested that. But they have capacities and capabilities few other air forces do......including all the ones you rhymed off.

Jawgap

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

Yeah, the Aussies have a fair ability and some serious air force. Capable lads the Aussies.

They are, but if you compare their operational tempo with the RAF and the USAF you'll see they're not in the same class.

They'd be good and every bit as good as the Canadians, and French.

The interesting one, which I'm surprised you haven't mentioned to be honest, is the Japanese - massive latent capacity there if they ever chose to go on that direction.

skooterblue2

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

Why does the IRA always have to be mentioned in any post by the assho1es from arrse.co.uk !!! If they were that easy of a push over, what does it say about the Brits who couldn't defeat them despite trying for 25 years

Maybe .. who knows ... you never found "the fisherman" did you?

But you still got deported from North Korea.... by the North Koreans....

As for the Video? Why do you think that general said that? He was march up before Thatcher in the morning and asked how much more resouces he would need. Win Win......

Fratton Fred

I think it would be fair to say Chicago Joe (who has a very similar posting style to McArmalite) is the epitome of the term "keyboard warrior".

Kat1170

Jawgap wrote: »

Soldiers complain, and moan - if they're not too hot, their cold or they're hungry or they've not got enough gear or they've got too much gear.......

Only two things soldiers are entitled to ......
1. Draw the little red book
2. Complain

Everything else is at your C/O's discretion :cool:;)

skooterblue2

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I think it would be fair to say Chicago Joe (who has a very similar posting style to McArmalite) is the epitome of the term "keyboard warrior".

Are you suggesting that Chicago Joe is a baby Shinner or a fireside republican?
whos highlight of his military carrer is beating up informer granny and knee capping junkies, washing red diesel and getting his mammy to knit him a balaclava for the cold winter nights on the bog side? Tiochfadh ar Lá

MrConservative

Jawgap wrote: »

They are, but if you compare their operational tempo with the RAF and the USAF you'll see they're not in the same class.

They'd be good and every bit as good as the Canadians, and French.

The interesting one, which I'm surprised you haven't mentioned to be honest, is the Japanese - massive latent capacity there if they ever chose to go on that direction.

The same class but a smaller class is the distinction I would make. The Canucks have not invested anywhere like the Aussies over the last decade and are not stumping up as much as the Aussies over the next.

sparky42

MrConservative wrote: »

The same class but a smaller class is the distinction I would make. The Canucks have not invested anywhere like the Aussies over the last decade and are not stumping up as much as the Aussies over the next.

That's true, the Canucks have a range of issues coming down the track for their military (both Air Force and Navy), the Aussies are in a better position but their future spending is going to be hard as well (particularly if China continues slowing), here's hoping they don't cock up the replacement sub project as the Collins has been.

Markcheese

MrConservative wrote: »

The same class but a smaller class is the distinction I would make. The Canucks have not invested anywhere like the Aussies over the last decade and are not stumping up as much as the Aussies over the next.

Aussies are very aware that they're a lowly populated resource rich country with some very populous neighbours ...(many of whom are a lot closer to Aussie wealth than most Aussie cities are- )
So their airforce is based very far south but with forward operating fields in Northern Territory - their navy is focused north but based in the south - they're very aware that they're a long way from anywhere and help is also a long way off -
We're in a different position -small and not resource rich , on the far side of an influential neighbour , we're surrounded by friends and economic partners - there's no point in spending loads on expensive toys - and spending large on those toys could destabilize our nation and conversely make us more of a target - We possibly could do with spending more on kit for the military and policing but not really the flashy big ticket items .