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Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Part 2)

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    #512
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    J C wrote: »
    Any God.

    You are a Christian are you not ? So how do you prove the non existence of Allah ?


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    #513
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    katydid wrote: »
    I don't understand what your question has to do with the idea that "irreligion depends on faith (in the non-existence of God). Does it matter what god you don't believe in if you don't believe in god?

    (This discussion is getting surreal)

    That is the very point I was making when I said the question was meaningless.


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    #514
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    marienbad wrote: »
    You are a Christian are you not ? So how do you prove the non existence of Allah ?
    ... you can't prove his non-existence ... so you can only be irreligious through faith ... just like you can only be religious through faith as well.

    That is my point ... and katydid's point


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    #515
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    J C wrote: »
    ... you can't prove his non-existence ... so you can only be irreligious through faith ... just like you can only be religious through faith as well.

    That is my point ... and katydid's point

    I don't need to prove his non existence , the burden is on you to prove his existence . Were it otherwise you would spend most of your time proving the non existence of Allah,Yahweh,and all the other deities throughout history a well as all the other rubbish such as unicorns, FSM, teapots etc


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    #516
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    marienbad wrote: »
    I don't need to prove his non existence , the burden is on you to prove his existence . Were it otherwise you would spend most of your time proving the non existence of Allah,Yahweh,and all the other deities throughout history a well as all the other rubbish such as unicorns, FSM, teapots etc

    Why is the burden on anyone, when everyone knows it can't be proved and no one is attempting to prove it?

    Very bizarre.


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    #517
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    marienbad wrote: »
    You are a Christian are you not ? So how do you prove the non existence of Allah ?

    Why would you want to? Allah is God, God is Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, or whatever you're having yourself.


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    #518
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    marienbad wrote: »
    That is the very point I was making when I said the question was meaningless.

    But it's not meaningless. I'm asking why YOU think it's meaningless.


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    #519
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    What katydid...
    katydid wrote: »
    Why would you want to? Allah is God, God is Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, or whatever you're having yourself.

    ... and what katydid next!!!
    katydid wrote: »
    But it's not meaningless. I'm asking why YOU think it's meaningless.

    Sorry Katydid ... please forgive me, but I've had the urge to do this for a long time!!!:)

    Very good and succinct posts BTW.


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    #520
    TiMe2PaRtYYYYY
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭TiMe2PaRtYYYYY


    you can not intellectualize a fairytale...... all religions are a fairytale


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    #521
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    katydid wrote: »
    But it's not meaningless. I'm asking why YOU think it's meaningless.

    I would remind you that JC kicked off this side bar by saying that atheism is an act of faith , and you replied True . And then I said not true - meaningless

    Just as you don't believe in unicorns or Santa or the tooth fairy , Allah, Zeus , Jupiter etc, neither do I ,plus one more -your God


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    #522
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    TiMe2PaRtYYYYY wrote: »
    you can not intellectualize a fairytale...... all religions are a fairytale
    ,,, only in so far as all materialistic explanations for the ultimates of existence are fairytales as well.:)


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    #523
    uncleoswald
    Registered Users Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭uncleoswald


    katydid wrote: »
    I don't understand what your question has to do with the idea that "irreligion depends on faith (in the non-existence of God). Does it matter what god you don't believe in if you don't believe in god?

    (This discussion is getting surreal)

    Do you believe in unicorns? If the answer is no would you call that a faith? Is it in any way equal to your belief in god?

    Always seems strange when a religious person unwittingly diminishes their own religion by equating it with a lack of faith.


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    #524
    TiMe2PaRtYYYYY
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭TiMe2PaRtYYYYY


    there are only two things worth knowing in this life and that is.... love is the only thing that matters and that death is a passage....


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    #525
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    marienbad wrote: »
    I would remind you that JC kicked off this side bar by saying that atheism is an act of faith , and you replied True . And then I said not true - meaningless

    Just as you don't believe in unicorns or Santa or the tooth fairy , Allah, Zeus , Jupiter etc, neither do I ,plus one more -your God
    ... the key word in your post is 'believe' (which is a faith-based phenomenon) ... and you have confirmed that you don't believe in any god ... which is also a proclaimation of faith, on your part.

    Why do you have such difficulty accepting that you are a 'believer' ... just like the rest of us?


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    #526
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    uncleoswald wrote: »
    Do you believe in unicorns? If the answer is no would you call that a faith? Is it in any way equal to your belief in god?

    Always seems strange when a religious person unwittingly diminishes their own religion by equating it with a lack of faith.

    Or when someone makes an assumption like that and states it as fact...


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    #527
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    J C wrote: »
    What katydid...



    ... and what katydid next!!!



    Sorry Katydid ... please forgive me, but I've had the urge to do this for a long time!!!:)

    Very good and succinct posts BTW.

    Someone was bound to do it eventually :pac:


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    #528
    TiMe2PaRtYYYYY
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭TiMe2PaRtYYYYY


    J C wrote: »
    ,,, only in so far as all materialistic explanations for the ultimates of existence are fairytales as well.:)

    jc you remind me of a water sprinkler all water but no substance behind it


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    #529
    uncleoswald
    Registered Users Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭uncleoswald


    katydid wrote: »
    Or when someone makes an assumption like that and states it as fact...
    I'm sorry if I phrased that wrong, certainly didn't mean it harshly. What assumption did I make? I'm just asking if you think your faith in god is equatable with someone's non-faith in unicorns?


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    #530
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    TiMe2PaRtYYYYY wrote: »
    there are only two things worth knowing in this life and that is.... love is the only thing that matters and that death is a passage....
    ... I can think of a few other things that matter, besides love (which means radically different things to different people anyway).

    ... but the existence of true love is indicative of a loving God who is the author of love, in the first place.


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    #531
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    J C wrote: »
    ... the key word in your post is 'believe' (which is a faith-based phenomenon) ... and you have confirmed that you don't believe in any god ... which is also a proclaimation of faith, on your part.

    Why do you have such difficulty accepting that you are a 'believer' ... just like the rest of us?

    Not so , or at least in the sense you mean it . I believe in the non existence of god and unicorns based on the best information available to me .

    You on the other hand believe in the existence of God ( but not unicorns) despite the best information available to you .


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    #532
    TiMe2PaRtYYYYY
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭TiMe2PaRtYYYYY


    J C wrote: »
    ... I can think of a few other things that matter, besides love (which means radically different things to different people anyway).

    ... but the existence of true love is indicative of a loving God who is the author of love, in the first place.

    love is an energy not associated with a god as you think jc


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    #533
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    uncleoswald wrote: »
    I'm sorry if I phrased that wrong, certainly didn't mean it harshly. What assumption did I make? I'm just asking if you think your faith in god is equatable with someone's non-faith in unicorns?

    You didn't phrase it wrong or harshly. Just strangely. You are assuming that someone like me is unwittingly diminishing their own religion by equating it with a lack of faith; which is fine. But it's only your opinion.

    Faith or non-faith are the same thing on a level of logic and rationality. Belief or faith doesn't operate on that level.


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    #534
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    TiMe2PaRtYYYYY wrote: »
    jc you remind me of a water sprinkler all water but no substance behind it
    ... or another way of looking at, is that I'm supply the very essence of life to you on the Boards.ie !!!;):pac:
    ... and I haven't started metering or charging for it ... yet!!! :D


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    #535
    TiMe2PaRtYYYYY
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭TiMe2PaRtYYYYY


    J C wrote: »
    ... or another way of looking at, is that I'm supply the very essence of life to you on the Boards.ie !!!;):pac:
    ... and i haven't started metering or charging for it ... yet!!! :D

    jc no need to get upset.....just live and learn before thinking you are right


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    #536
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    marienbad wrote: »
    Not so , or at least in the sense you mean it . I believe in the non existence of god and unicorns based on the best information available to me .

    You on the other hand believe in the existence of God ( but not unicorns) despite the best information available to you .
    ... I actually believe in the existence of God, based on the best information available.

    ... so that makes our respective beliefs in the existence/non-existence of God on an equal (faith-based) footing.:)


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    #537
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    J C wrote: »
    ... I actually believe in the existence of God, based on the best information available.

    ... so that makes our respective beliefs in the existence/non-existence of God on an equal (faith-based) footing.:)

    No mine is an evidence (or lack of) based position, that is open to change as new information is provided .Yours is not open to change no matter what information is provided .


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    #538
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    TiMe2PaRtYYYYY wrote: »
    jc no need to get upset.....just live and learn before thinking you are right
    I'm not in the least upset ... did you not see my smileys ... I took you joke in good spirits!!!!

    Everybody thinks they are 'right' about their beliefs ... otherwise they would cease to hold them.
    I've lived many 'lives' ... and I've learned a lot ... and I continue to learn new things every day.

    In my case I used to believe in all the materialistic ideas, that you seem to believe in ... and then I found Jesus Christ ... and my beliefs started to change.

    It happens !!!


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    #539
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    marienbad wrote: »
    No mine is an evidence (or lack of) based position, that is open to change as new information is provided .Yours is not open to change no matter what information is provided .
    My beliefs in God are also evidence based ... and open to change as new information is provided.


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    #540
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    J C wrote: »
    ... the key word in your post is 'believe' (which is a faith-based phenomenon) ... and you have confirmed that you don't believe in any god ... which is also a proclaimation of faith, on your part.

    Why do you have such difficulty accepting that you are a 'believer' ... just like the rest of us?

    In my living room there is a TV.

    There are many channels I could watch.

    I may choose a channel based on what I like to see, my mood, the things that people recommend, etc, etc.

    OR I could switch the TV off.

    You appear to be arguing that if I do not feel like watching any channels on TV and switch it off... I am still watching something?

    Tell me, how does one watch nothing?

    So, how does one "believe" in nothing?

    Surely for belief to exist there must first be something to believe IN?

    If I believe in nothing how could argue that I actually believe in something?

    Are you saying that nothing is actually something?


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    #541
    TiMe2PaRtYYYYY
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭TiMe2PaRtYYYYY


    J C wrote: »
    I'm not in the least upset ... did you not see my smileys ... I took you joke in good spirits!!!!

    Everybody thinks they are 'right' about their beliefs ... otherwise they would cease to hold them.

    In my case I used to believe in all the materialistic ideas, that you seem to believe in ... and then I found Jesus Christ ... and my beliefs started to change.

    It happens !!!

    materialistic ??? what post that i sent said i was materialistic.... no disrespect jc you need to get your water sprinkler checked.... stick to the debate jc


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