What can be found in the Valuation Office Archives?

Eve222

I know the records from the Archives start in the 1850's for property, but would you find only the estate owners? Also when would the "tenants" have become owners of the property? I'm trying to find out about a man that is in the GV, but that is all I can find out about him. If I could get an idea of when he died I might be able to get a little more info from a death cert. I did sent away for a couple of certs that I hoped might be him without any luck.

shanew

The Cancelled Land Books contain the same sort of details as Griffth's, e.g. townland or street, civil parish, occupier, lessor, property type and details etc, but work forward from Griffth's. Alterations are written up with different coloured ink.

Eve222

They are worth having a look at then. Thank you Shane.

Coolnabacky1873

Eve222 wrote: »

Also when would the "tenants" have become owners of the property?

I believe tenant land purchase began in 1885 with the Ashbourne Act. From that point onward, various Land Acts were passed that provided money for tenants to purchase their holdings. This continued into the 20th century.

You can often see this process occur by comparing Form B1 on the 1901 and 1911 censuses, because of the 1903 Wyndham Act. One of the questions the form asks is 'name of landholder'. I have an example in my family where they were still renting in 1901 but were the owners of the land in 1911.

Coolnabacky1873

The Cancelled Land Books for Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, and Tipp have been digitized and can be consulted at the office.
http://www.valoff.ie/en/Archives_Genealogy_Public_Office/

Eve222

Thank you Coolnabacky. That gives me something else to look up, and I'll go back and have another look at the censuses too.

kildarejohn

It is a couple of years ago since I visited the Valuation Office (Irish Life Bldg., Abbey St), they also had available the "Perambulation Books". Someone might confirm if these are still available.
The Perambulation Books recorded the basis for the original valuation, and in some cases include interesting details like descriptions of quality of fields and details of houses and of farm buildings.

shanew

Similar to Perambulation Books, and being processed at the moment by the NAI are the field and house books. These were due to be available online last year, but there was a problem with indexing.. worth keeping an eye out for ..

See : Griffith's Valuation Books - beyond the Primary list of tenements (see the Valuation Notebooks section)
and Irish Genealogy News Thursday, 20 March 2014

Edit : More details here (Timeline Research) includes a note re transfer of these books to NAI

Waitsian

Have you seen the research prices at this place? :eek:

Unless that is you're a student, unemployed or a Senior, then it's free. For everyone else, wow. Bear in mind the Revision books for the 6 NI counties are free online.

pinkypinky

What are the costs, mod9maple?

It's a while since I needed to go in there. I don't think I was a student at the time but they didn't charge me.

Waitsian

pinkypinky wrote: »

What are the costs, mod9maple?

It's a while since I needed to go in there. I don't think I was a student at the time but they didn't charge me.

http://www.valoff.ie/en/Fees/

Scroll down to the bottom of the page. Unless I'm reading it wrong they seem very high.

Jellybaby1

I don't think those fees are for access to archives.

Waitsian

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I don't think those fees are for access to archives.

The sub-heading says 'archive research'. If I'm wrong then I'll be delighted - I need to visit myself.

KildareFan

Archive Research
Each volume/map consulted (for research periods less than 1 hour) €3.80
Daily Research Fee after 1 hour (Effective from 1/8/02) €15.24
Colour photocopy per page €1.27
(Periods greater than 1 hour to be charged at proportionate hourly rate)

I'm not really clear about the fees as set out here - does it mean the max daily rate for research is €15.24? The GRO office charges €20 for a full day's work on the indexes so maybe it's not too bad especially if you can actually see the original records, and not just an index? GRO charges 4euro for a photocopy, so maybe €1.27 for a photocopy isn't too bad?

pinkypinky

Colour photocopies would be required because they made use of different inks to differentiate between years.
I think they do allow photographs though.
Those fees seem very high.

hblock21

I can only comment re. the records that have been digitised. I was told by the valuation office itself that it is free to search these records on the computers.
I cannot comment on the other counties.

Eve222

I'll let you know soon about the cost. I have requested a search by post. The above posts have made me very nervous! I don't want the maps. What do you think of this?

Copies of Maps
VO Certified Copy €50.79
Current Map (Photocopy) €12.70
A3/A4 size (Photocopy) €6.35
Griffith Map €25.39
Archive Research
Each volume/map consulted (for research periods less than 1 hour) €3.80
Daily Research Fee after 1 hour (Effective from 1/8/02) €15.24
Colour photocopy per page €1.27
(Periods greater than 1 hour to be charged at proportionate hourly rate)
E-mail or postal query €25.39
Note: Archive research is free to students on production of a letter of authorisation from their college/tutor, senior citizens and persons in receipt of an unemployment payment subject to satisfactory verification.

shanew

When I did my searches a while ago I left with about 6 or 7 full colour photocopy pages from the Valuation/Cancelled books for each search, some required A3 copies. I dont remember any search charge, but the costly part was definitely the photo-copies.

p.s. some of the searches can be quite time consuming, e.g. one of the townlands I was researching switched back and forth between three DEDs several times over the years, so had to check two extra districts each time I searched forward after a cancelled book

Eve222

Here is the estimated cost for a search without maps from earliest records to 1890. (I know the later history) Including standard fee, postage and photocopies, 36 Euro. I'm happy with that, it would cost me more to go to Dublin.

Waitsian

Eve222 wrote: »

Here is the estimated cost for a search without maps from earliest records to 1890. (I know the later history) Including standard fee, postage and photocopies, 36 Euro. I'm happy with that, it would cost me more to go to Dublin.

I need something like that myself, for two townlands in Cavan from the original in 1857 up to 1900. Can you break that E36 figure down for me Eve? I'd be happy to pay that myself tbh, or slightly more if need be.

Eve222

Hi Mod9,
The basic search fee is 25.39, 1.27 per copy, postage 2.54. The 36 euro is an estimated cost for me. Mine is for a single search but I don't think it would be much more if anything for two searches. (but I could be wrong about that, you could check with them about it) mine is up to 1890, so your photocopies would be a bit more on one search. The copies for me is around 8 euro. I don't need maps, but the cost for them are above if you want those too.

Waitsian

Eve222 wrote: »

Hi Mod9,
The basic search fee is 25.39, 1.27 per copy, postage 2.54. The 36 euro is an estimated cost for me. Mine is for a single search but I don't think it would be much more if anything for two searches. (but I could be wrong about that, you could check with them about it) mine is up to 1890, so your photocopies would be a bit more on one search. The copies for me is around 8 euro. I don't need maps, but the cost for them are above if you want those too.

Thanks Eve. I think I'll ring or e-mail them and see what they say about the cost of both choices - visiting or post - before I decide. Can you let us know when you get your postal results, if you decide to go that route, and how happy you are with them?

Eve222

mod9maple wrote: »

Thanks Eve. I think I'll ring or e-mail them and see what they say about the cost of both choices - visiting or post - before I decide. Can you let us know when you get your postal results, if you decide to go that route, and how happy you are with them?

If you email them give them all the details. Family name(s) townland(s) and the years you want to research, maps if you want them, and ask for an estimated cost. If you ask for info in general they will just send you links. I emailed today to go ahead with the search, I'll let you know how it goes.

Eve222

I'm still waiting for this research to come back. It's been a month so I'm hoping it wont be much longer.

Waitsian

In case anyone missed it:

http://www.irishgenealogynews.com/2015/02/digitisation-plans-for-griffiths.html

The story includes news on the Revision books.

Eve222

I got an email from the VO, there is nine photocopies, I should get them this week. I wanted to get them in the post rather than by email. Here is the cost for what I ordered.

Standard research fee: euro 25.39

Photocopying fee (9): euro 11.43

Postage: euro 2.54

Total due: euro 39.36

Waitsian

Eve222 wrote: »

I got an email from the VO, there is nine photocopies, I should get them this week. I wanted to get them in the post rather than by email.

Thanks for the cost breakdown Eve, much appreciated.

I'm going tomorrow to use the digital records for Kerry. Looking forward to it.

Eve222

Your welcome Mod9. Let us know how you get on with your Kerry records. I'm looking forward to mine too.

Eve222

I got the photocopies this morning. It was well worth getting them! It solved a mystery for me. There was one man with the same name, with the same address that I just couldn't connect to my great grandfather. It was the same name and address but a different house. My great grandfather took over the house from his father-in-law. He must have been living with his in-laws because before that there was a small garden in his name. The house had a map number and the garden was the same number with a c added to it. When he took over the house the number with the c was just crossed out. What had me confused was the family was the only family in the area of that name. The man that I thought was connected was crossed out and it looks like the person living next to him took over the property from there. The name didn't reappear until my great grandfather and the small garden. I have gone back further with my great grandfather from a different area and now it makes sense to me. It has also given me something else to look up on my great grandmother's side. The small garden was taken over from a man with the same family name on my great grandmother's side.

What the VO sent me was from 1860 to 1972. I don't really understand what is in the observations column. I'll go back to it tonight and have another look.

Waitsian

I just read that the Valuation Office has, and I quote, "dramatically reduced or scrapped" the charges for searching and photocopying entries in the Revision books.

Happy days!! :-)

downwiththatsor

mod9maple wrote: »

Thanks for the cost breakdown Eve, much appreciated.

I'm going tomorrow to use the digital records for Kerry. Looking forward to it.

I got Field Book records from 1849 and House book records for the years 1849, 1850 and 1851 here-

http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/vob/index.jsp


Just wondering if you know if perambulation books for County Kerry are available from the office?

Thanks in advance

tabbey

I have viewed perambulation books on microfilm at the NAI, but I do not know how many survive.

downwiththatsor

tabbey wrote: »

I have viewed perambulation books on microfilm at the NAI, but I do not know how many survive.

Thanks i will contact the Valuation office and ask them to do a search so and see what they come up with. Anyone got a link to a good guide as to the basis for land and "measures" valuations for houses.
I have read the following links -

General Note
Field Books
House Books
Tenure Books
Quarto Books


From here-


http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/vob/home.jsp

However something more detailed than it would be great.
Regards

tabbey

downwiththatsor wrote: »

Thanks i will contact the Valuation office and ask them to do a search


http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/vob/home.jsp

The VO do not have perambulation books, as they are in the NAI on microfilm.

You go to the VO for the revision books, sometime known as the "cancelled" books.

downwiththatsor

Hi again,

Anyone know the time frame for getting documents in the post after paying online?
Its been 3 weeks so far.
Thanks

Eve222

downwiththatsor wrote: »

Hi again,

Anyone know the time frame for getting documents in the post after paying online?
Its been 3 weeks so far.
Thanks

When I ordered on line it was six weeks before I received the documents, but well worth the wait.