Going to court on a dangerous driving offence

MuppetCheck

From the off this isn't asking how to avoid responsibility, blame or anything at all like that. I'm hoping to get some personal experience and advise on this for someone who is beside themselves with worry and guilt at the moment. I'm hoping people can take the story at face value and not drag this into some form of "they're an idiot for doing that" lark. We've all made mistakes.

Right, here's the story. A former work friend of mine had an accident lately. Their car drifted across the road and into one coming in the opposite direction. All were thankfully ok, bruised and a bit battered but now recovered which is the main thing.

Fast forward they have now been charged with dangerous driving. Obviously they know the accident was their fault and they fully accept this without question. However they have been told excessive speed was involved which wasn't the case and a reputable witness also said it wasn't speed. However this witness is no longer in the picture.

My question is has anyone any experience on what they can expect to happen/possible sentence? I understand no one has a crystal ball. They are not shirking away from responsibility here, are prepared to be fully open and honest. They are not trying to get away with anything or screw anyone. They are just worried about their ability to keep their license, job and family transport going as dangerous driving can mean a ban and jail time.

Thanks in advance.

corktina

need a bit more info here.

Have they previous offenses? Penalty Points? Insurance status? Experience? Why did they drift?Age? Type of car? etc

MuppetCheck

Points for speeding, no other offenses, fully insured, full NCB in their own name (now gone), Mid-late 20s.

From speaking to them it seems like a momentary lack of concentration. They weren't on the phone or anything like that, just a genuine, albeit serious, mistake.

Halfbaker

Has the person hired a solicitor?

MuppetCheck

Halfbaker wrote: »

Has the person hired a solicitor?

In the process of it at the moment, but trying to get as much info/experience as possible.

Padraig Mor

I wonder if it would be an option to plead guilty to careless driving / driving without due care and consideration on the day? I presume they have a solicitor btw?

edit: a neighbour was recently convicted of one (can't remember which) and got 4 points and a fine, but no ban.

Cuddlesworth

The case and charge is basically going to go 2 ways. Either the Gardai shows up and he is convicted or he doesn't and its thrown out. He could do with a lawyer to spout the usual, "my client has young children to support and a job that relies on driving etc"...

My father has spent enough time in court for parking tickets, has seen so many traffic offense cases and thats how 99% of them go. Its his word vs the gardai, which the gardai being the more trustworthy.

I will append this though by saying that its seems unlikely for a gardai to push for dangerous driving unless there is a very good reason for it.

listermint

From reading cases similar to this it most likely will result in a Ban and perhaps a fine. Length of ban would depend on the judge tbh.

Chemical Byrne

Well since he has previous form for speeding it might be difficult to argue that speed wasn't a contributing factor. Even if you get a witness, they can only offer a very subjective guess of the speed he was doing and won't be able to say with any certainty.
The forensics guys in the Gardai will be able to get a very good idea of the speed of the crash by looking at the damage, length of skid marks and the distance debris was thrown. They being the experts, the court will take their testimony more seriously than a guess by some fella who happened to be on the street.

And just because he wasn't exceeding the speed limit on the road, that doesn't necessarily mean he was driving at a safe speed either.

He should get a good solicitor. He'll need it.

MuppetCheck

MuppetCheck wrote: »

..............
From speaking to them it seems like a momentary lack of concentration. They weren't on the phone or anything like that, just a genuine, albeit serious, mistake.

If that comes out in court they will most definitely receive a driving ban, no fear of a prison spell or suspended sentance imo.

Fine and ban.

keithclancy

MuppetCheck wrote: »

From the off this isn't asking how to avoid responsibility, blame or anything at all like that. I'm hoping to get some personal experience and advise on this for someone who is beside themselves with worry and guilt at the moment. I'm hoping people can take the story at face value and not drag this into some form of "they're an idiot for doing that" lark. We've all made mistakes.

Right, here's the story. A former work friend of mine had an accident lately. Their car drifted across the road and into one coming in the opposite direction. All were thankfully ok, bruised and a bit battered but now recovered which is the main thing.

Fast forward they have now been charged with dangerous driving. Obviously they know the accident was their fault and they fully accept this without question. However they have been told excessive speed was involved which wasn't the case and a reputable witness also said it wasn't speed. However this witness is no longer in the picture.

My question is has anyone any experience on what they can expect to happen/possible sentence? I understand no one has a crystal ball. They are not shirking away from responsibility here, are prepared to be fully open and honest. They are not trying to get away with anything or screw anyone. They are just worried about their ability to keep their license, job and family transport going as dangerous driving can mean a ban and jail time.

Thanks in advance.

Best thing is to get a Solicitor and to dress well for the day in Court. (by well I do not mean their best trackie and runners)
Once the Solicitor conveys the necessity of driving for the persons livelihood it should just be a fine.

Only dangerous driving causing death is a mandatory conviction and a disqualification is not mandatory.

kirving

Not an expert, but I do know that most if not all modern cars have a black-box type recorder which records stuff like seatbelt usage, speed, brake position, steering angle, etc. My '08 car specifically states this in the manual, saying that the manufacturer will never release this data, but may be forced to under law.

I appreciate that this is somewhat off topic, and that a large amount of time has probably passed, but would it be a possibility to have this data read by the manufacturer in order to prove what exactly happened?

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

..........Once the Solicitor conveys the necessity of driving for the persons livelihood it should just be a fine. ................

Driving to and from work and driving for the persons livelihood are not at all the same thing.

Zubeneschamali

Crucial information: did the driver make a statement to a guard at any point?

If so, can they recall exactly what they said in it?

Greenmachine

Get Solicitor. End thread.

MuppetCheck

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Greenmachine wrote: »

Get Solicitor. End thread.

That's not the purpose of the thread. They are getting a solicitor already.

ba_barabus

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Crucial information: did the driver make a statement to a guard at any point?

If so, can they recall exactly what they said in it?

That's the crucial bit there. If they said something along the lines of they were asleep or reading a text for instance I'd immediately say a ban was coming. If they kept it more general I'd say a fine and endorcment.

Of course it all depends on the Judge as we've seen similar cases being treated very differently in the past, everthing from dismissal to jail.

keithclancy

Augeo wrote: »

Driving to and from work and driving for the persons livelihood are not at all the same thing.

Agreed, but i think if there was sufficient evidence to prove that the person may lose their job due to being banned then its a different story.

Greenmachine

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies so far.



That's not the purpose of the thread. They are getting a solicitor already.

Proper legal advice will be more useful to your friend than, random internet anecdotes.

bladebrew

I have been in court on a dangerous driving charge, I was terrified aswell, I have said the story a few times before, I got a solicitor who deals with traffic offences, I told him what happened and in my case he said my best bet was to try get the charge dropped to careless driving, definitely wear a suit or shirt and tie it sounds funny but shows respect for the court, there were people in there in track suits!
The Garda that was handling my case was a young guy seemed nice, he didn't turn up on my day in court but I still got a conviction, The solicitor tells the judge (I think) we will plead guilty to careless driving them we waited a few hours for my case to come back up, I stood up in court when my case got called he asked my solicitor 2 questions, which were was everything on the car in order ie. tax ,insurance, and did I have any previous convictions, (I didn't) the judge said "lucky boy" ,I got careless driving conviction, and a €150 fine, the automatic penalty points were never applied to my licence because back then (2008) you didn't have to bring your licence into court so they couldn't put points on it!
You can fight the charge altogether but I got my summons in November for a court date in June and by then I wanted it dealt with on the day, my solicitor recommended that aswell, he said he would cost €300 for the day but he didn't charge me that much as he knew someone I know,
My insurance stayed the same price for 2 years afterwards which was €1400 but I had gotten a full licence just before I went to court, so that helped lower it when the conviction went onto it, it started dropping in price then,
Court is a full day aswell, there will be a list of cases on the wall in the lobby and you just wait for you name to be called but I didn't even have to speak to the judge on the day,
I think in your friends case a ban is still unlikely it will be a fine and penalty points though, im his solicitor may go the same road as me and get the charge dropped to careless driving?
Sorry did the long long post any questions just ask!

MuppetCheck

Greenmachine wrote: »

Proper legal advice will be more useful to your friend than, random internet anecdotes.

Like I said in my original post, looking for people with experience of the process to get an idea of what's ahead. Legal advice is being sought already.

celica00

Im kinda confused now.

Did he drift of to the other side because lack of concentration (like kinda falling asleep etc) or did he actually drift (slide) on purpose across the road?

If it is the first case, I would say the chances are good that no ban will be given, just points and fine. It can be laid down as human error/misjudging the situation etc.

MuppetCheck

bladebrew wrote: »

I have been in court on a dangerous driving charge, I was terrified aswell, I have said the story a few times before, I got a solicitor who deals with traffic offences, I told him what happened and in my case he said my best bet was to try get the charge dropped to careless driving, definitely wear a suit or shirt and tie it sounds funny but shows respect for the court, there were people in there in track suits!
The Garda that was handling my case was a young guy seemed nice, he didn't turn up on my day in court but I still got a conviction, The solicitor tells the judge (I think) we will plead guilty to careless driving them we waited a few hours for my case to come back up, I stood up in court when my case got called he asked my solicitor 2 questions, which were was everything on the car in order ie. tax ,insurance, and did I have any previous convictions, (I didn't) the judge said "lucky boy" ,I got careless driving conviction, and a €150 fine, the automatic penalty points were never applied to my licence because back then (2008) you didn't have to bring your licence into court so they couldn't put points on it!
You can fight the charge altogether but I got my summons in November for a court date in June and by then I wanted it dealt with on the day, my solicitor recommended that aswell, he said he would cost €300 for the day but he didn't charge me that much as he knew someone I know,
My insurance stayed the same price for 2 years afterwards which was €1400 but I had gotten a full licence just before I went to court, so that helped lower it when the conviction went onto it, it started dropping in price then,
Court is a full day aswell, there will be a list of cases on the wall in the lobby and you just wait for you name to be called but I didn't even have to speak to the judge on the day,
I think in your friends case a ban is still unlikely it will be a fine and penalty points though, im his solicitor may go the same road as me and get the charge dropped to careless driving?
Sorry did the long long post and questions just ask!

Great post, thanks a million. I'll relay it and see if there's any questions.

MuppetCheck

celica00 wrote: »

Im kinda confused now.

Did he drift of to the other side because lack of concentration (like kinda falling asleep etc) or did he actually drift (slide) on purpose across the road?

If it is the first case, I would say the chances are good that no ban will be given, just points and fine. It can be laid down as human error/misjudging the situation etc.

It was definitely hunan error in this case.

As for the statement to the Gardai mentioned I'll find out more.

Zubeneschamali

MuppetCheck wrote: »

As for the statement to the Gardai mentioned I'll find out more.

For anyone following along: after an accident, never, ever give a statement to a guard until after you have spoken to a solicitor. You are not obliged to.

If you do volunteer one, and it includes a phrase like "maybe I should have been paying more attention", or "perhaps I was going too fast", you're goosed. These are perfectly natural things to think to yourself after an accident, but do not repeat them to a guard.

Even in the case where you really know you did something wrong, getting a conviction is their job. You are not obliged to help them.

corktina

My son was charged with Dangerous Driving (allegedly doing donuts in a FWD Fiesta...) the Solicitor got it reduced to careless Driving...5 points and a fine)..

Now that's his experience, but crossing the line and crashing into someone is a whole new kettle of fish and were it alleged by the Gard (for instance) that he was texting, it might be as well to plead guilty if that's the case.

Court procedure painless,Very matter of fact. Lots of scumbags in there to entertain you (sorry your friend :-) ), make sure it's obvious that your friend isn't one of them

corktina

corktina wrote: »

........... but crossing the line and crashing into someone is a whole new kettle of fish ............

That's why a think this is a banker for a ban, lack of concentration on an empty road when you know it's clear and lack of concentration resulting in driving into someone on the opposite side are hugely different.

I'd be appalled and surprised if the person wasn't banned.

MuppetCheck

corktina wrote: »

My son was charged with Dangerous Driving (allegedly doing donuts in a FWD Fiesta...) the Solicitor got it reduced to careless Driving...5 points and a fine)..

Now that's his experience, but crossing the line and crashing into someone is a whole new kettle of fish and were it alleged by the Gard (for instance) that he was texting, it might be as well to plead guilty if that's the case.

Court procedure painless,Very matter of fact. Lots of scumbags in there to entertain you (sorry your friend :-) ), make sure it's obvious that your friend isn't one of them

Thanks for that! And fortunately it's not me:p

I spoke to them and the statement was outlining what had happened. There was no mention of speeding or making a mistake, simply the lead up to the accident. It was right after a bend that it happened.

EazyD

Has the car been checked over for possible mechanical faults that could have contributed to the collision?

Chemical Byrne

corktina wrote: »

My son was charged with Dangerous Driving (allegedly doing donuts in a FWD Fiesta...) .......... but crossing the line and crashing into someone is a whole new kettle of fish ...........

Personally, of the OP's friend and your son, I feel what your son did would warrant a harsher outcome. Bad and all as it is, the OP's friend was careless by not paying correct attention and causing an accident, but it was not intentional.

What your son did on the other hand was blatant and intentionally reckless and dangerous.

MuppetCheck

EazyD wrote: »

Has the car been checked over for possible mechanical faults that could have contributed to the collision?

I don't know that, I'll check. But I think if that was the issue it would have been brought up by them.