Subtle bullying (not sure)

jos_kel

Hi,
There's a colleague of mine that I work with, we both started the same time, contracting with the same company and we were both offered and accepted perm roles at the same time.
I've detected before Xmas and yesterday some sort of sneering from other colleague. Before Xmas one colleague said in the pub "was "A" dropping me home after the party". I said "Yes as it was on his way". I laughed this off as harmless banter but he persisted a bit further, so about 5 minutes later, I asked him what he had meant and he appeared surprised. Anyway we agreed to forget it happened.
Since Monday, the colleague who dropped me home after the Xmas party, has been out sick.
Going into the lift yesterday, the other colleague (who sneered at me before Xmas) was with another colleague.
The other colleague said "What did you do to Colleague A?" and both of them started laughing and to be honest I did to. But now I'm thinking that was the wrong thing to do and should have made it clear by maybe asking "What do you mean?" Because to be honest I'm not sure what the implication was.
I don't think I'm being overly sensitive and in any case it's probably no harm seeking clarification on what is meant by certain comments.

FluffyAngel

if you feel this is happening to you ,then i would log any incdient that you feel is out of line
while what you described can be viewed as "harmless banter"

its having an effect on you that isnt harmless ,the overthinking after is the key ? maybe your worried about your role within the company ? job secuirty?
is it a stressful job? could you try medatation?

or simple breathing exercises there is a lot on you tube that could help

Teyla Emmagan

I think you're dealing with a nosy cow more than anything else. Either ignore them, or tell them they seem terribly interested in colleague A the next time it cones up. I wouldn't call this bullying from what you have said, more dealing with a tool. Some people just love insinuating.

Stavro Mueller

Clearly I'm missing something because I can't see any malice in what you've described. What is it you feel they're implying?

bee06

Stavro Mueller wrote: »

Clearly I'm missing something because I can't see any malice in what you've described. What is it you feel they're implying?

Yeah, I'd agree. If it's just these two incidents I would have heard hundreds of similar remarks in my working life.

ManOfMystery

I'm assuming from your post that Colleague A is male, Colleague B is male, and you're female? And you think Colleague B may be implying there's something going on between you and Colleague A?

Tokyo

Hi OP,

I notice that you have started similar threads on this in the past over the course of the past few years. In this case it sounds like you've fallen into the crosshairs of office gossip, (ah, what's going on between ye two?! *wink* *wink*) rather than experiencing bullying (though I agree, there can be a fine line between the two at times). You've provided very little information, but everything you've posted so far sounds like it was meant as joking banter, nothing more. Though if it does bother you that much, a simple request to your colleague to stop, because you don't like the implications of what's being said, would be an obvious first step to take.

Dog of Tears

jos_kel wrote: »

I don't think I'm being overly sensitive and in any case it's probably no harm seeking clarification on what is meant by certain comments.

It's pretty obvious what they meant,

They are suggesting that you slept with Colleague A, furthermore they are suggesting that the sex with Colleague A was of such a vigorous and prolonged nature, that Colleague A is now suffering the effects of this sex, and has been unable to turn up to work since.

Whether you decide to treat this as harmless slagging or something more sinister is really up to yourself.

jos_kel

Dog of Tears wrote: »

It's pretty obvious what they meant,

They are suggesting that you slept with Colleague A, furthermore they are suggesting that the sex with Colleague A was of such a vigorous and prolonged nature, that Colleague A is now suffering the effects of this sex, and has been unable to turn up to work since.

Whether you decide to treat this as harmless slagging or something more sinister is really up to yourself.

Just to clarify someone's question above. All colleague's in this scenario are male. It's difficult to treat this as harmless banter. At the very least, I would think clarification should be sought by me. It's not up to me to decide whether it's slagging or sinister. The onus needs to be put back on the colleague to clarify.

skallywag

jos_kel wrote: »

Just to clarify someone's question above. All colleague's in this scenario are male. It's difficult to treat this as harmless banter. At the very least, I would think clarification should be sought by me. It's not up to me to decide whether it's slagging or sinister. The onus needs to be put back on the colleague to clarify.

What do you think could possibly be sinister about it? It sounds to me like the type of slagging that goes on in nearly every workplace. If you are not happy with it then that's perfectly fine, say it to their face and ask them to drop it, but don't delude yourself into thinking that there could be more to it.

jos_kel

skallywag wrote: »

What do you think could possibly be sinister about it? It sounds to me like the type of slagging that goes on in nearly every workplace. If you are not happy with it then that's perfectly fine, say it to their face and ask them to drop it, but don't delude yourself into thinking that there could be more to it.

No I'd never contemplate delusion. However, we all enjoy a bit of banter, I'm no different. But I suppose the key is it becomes targeted and persistent. That's probably where the game changes and the fun ends.

Tokyo

OP, with all due respect, it sounds like you've already decided that this is a problem for you and that it's something that needs to change, so asking us if it's an issue or not is somewhat of a moot point. So with that in mind, have you spoken to the individuals in question about this? And if so, why not?

jos_kel

mike_ie wrote: »

OP, with all due respect, it sounds like you've already decided that this is a problem for you and that it's something that needs to change, so asking us if it's an issue or not is somewhat of a moot point. So with that in mind, have you spoken to the individuals in question about this? And if so, why not?

Well yes and no. What I've decided is to let things lie and just monitor things. By taking a step back and detaching myself from it, it'll allow to ensure I'm getting this right. However, if it does persist, there's probably no harm in tackling head on and in private have an adult chat.

dellas1979

jos_kel wrote: »

Well yes and no. What I've decided is to let things lie and just monitor things. By taking a step back and detaching myself from it, it'll allow to ensure I'm getting this right. However, if it does persist, there's probably no harm in tackling head on and in private have an adult chat.

OP I was working in a company for 3 months, and the Christmas party came up. And to make an effort, I went. I didnt know many people. But, we were all standing around in a circle, when one of my managers said "hey {new girl}, Ive seen you in the kitchen snogging Jim!!!". Just so happened that Jim's girlfriend had come to the Christmas party, and was standing across from me.

I laughed my head off, while eyes shifted everywhere.

My question would be, why do you care so much? If that was me, Id be like "Yeah, he's wrecked shur...youre awfully interested in my love life arent ya".

Big Bag of Chips

I don't understand. I know tone is difficult to get across in text, but I don't understand how someone asking you if A is dropping you home after the party could be taken up as meaning anything else? Sometimes if we are sensitive about things we pick up on meanings that aren't there.

Do you think he meant you were going home together as a "couple"? If so, why would you think that? Are you gay? Is "A" gay, and you are straight and you think by them making a point of you getting a lift with him that they are implying there is something going on between you?

I just don't understand where the bullying is happening? If someone asked me was I being dropped home by someone who lived 5 minutes away I wouldn't give it a second thought! If one of you is gay, then the others are just immature idiots. Like teenagers sniggering at the back of the class over who fancies who. If neither of you are gay, then I fail to see what the issue is...


Actually even if 1 or both of you are gay I fail to see what the issue is??

bee06

OP, I read over your previous posts because I mistakenly thought you were a woman. If this the same place that you posted about before?

Big Bag of Chips

Ok, I just read your other posts.. I don't know what advice you might be looking for. 4 years ago you brought this up with your boss, and an email was sent around. So 4 years later you are having the same issues and your decision now is to sit and wait?

I think these people are now saying things to wind you up because they know it winds you up. So either make a formal complaint once and for all, or ignore it once and for all. After 4 years I don't know what else you could possibly be waiting for.

Stavro Mueller

OP is this the same workplace you posted about previously in Work Problems back in 2011/2012? If it is, it'd make a bit more sense. Because at face value, I honestly have no idea why you're getting so wound up over the exchanges you've described here.

woodchuck

I haven't looked at your other posts/threads, but from what you've described here you seem extremely overly sensitive. It just sounds like usual office banter/joking to me. The subject matter might be slightly inappropriate, but I really don't see how you'd see it as bullying. To be honest I think if you try to talk to your colleague about this he'll look at you like you have 10 heads, because like the rest of us, he really won't see what your problem is.

Littlekittylou

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I don't understand. I know tone is difficult to get across in text, but I don't understand how someone asking you if A is dropping you home after the party could be taken up as meaning anything else? Sometimes if we are sensitive about things we pick up on meanings that aren't there.


I just don't understand where the bullying is happening?

Actually even if 1 or both of you are gay I fail to see what the issue is??

I am not being insensitive to the OP. Obviously feelings in the workplace go both ways.

But I agree with BBof C here. I don't understand. Is it possible OP you are reading too much into it? Unless there is a wider context of incidents or we are missing something. There is nothing to insinuate what the person actually meant here. I read it as 'what did you do to A?' meaning you got him drunk or something? It could mean a lot of things.

Can you pin point the reason it made you feel uncomfortable? I am not dismissing your feelings. But is it possible you are making yourself anxious over nothing?

If it is the same workplace then obviously there is history and i would waste no time in taking issue. But if it isn't is it possible your last experiences have made you wary?

I don't want to demean your issue though. Because if it is bullying then that is very serious and it can be difficult to ascertain the nuance of bullying unless you are there.

retro:electro

Op are you still in the same workplace as your other post about office bullying? Because if you're not then I think you're taking a pretty harmless comment and making it into a bigger issue than what it actually is. You're deflecting all the past issues and insecurities you had with your previous colleagues and thus completely misinterpreting innocuous comments. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me those comments seemed pretty harmless.
If you are still in the same place, well then you should have made a formal complaint four years ago.

Penny Tration

Op, you said in response to mike_ie that you're going to sit back and see what happens.

You decided to do that four years ago!

If you feel you're being bullied, why haven't you made a complaint or gotten a new job in those 4 years?

Personally, I really don't see how anything said was more than silly banter, that you could easily have joked back about.

Matteroffact

Just ignore these guys OP, that would be your best bet. If they get no response from you whatsoever they will get nothing out of trying to annoy you and will soon get fed up. Just realize that the more you show annoyance the more of a kick they are getting, so don't leave yourself open to more of the same. They know you are not gay so for them to be at this sort of childish behaviour says a lot about them. Do not stoop to their level, just pretend you don't hear them and don't reply to anything they say.

jos_kel

Matteroffact wrote: »

Just ignore these guys OP, that would be your best bet. If they get no response from you whatsoever they will get nothing out of trying to annoy you and will soon get fed up. Just realize that the more you show annoyance the more of a kick they are getting, so don't leave yourself open to more of the same. They know you are not gay so for them to be at this sort of childish behaviour says a lot about them. Do not stoop to their level, just pretend you don't hear them and don't reply to anything they say.

Thanks for all the replies.
This is not the same employer as 4 years ago. I thought from experience the best thing to do was to ask discretely what was meant by a comment. However maybe the past is causing me to over react.
Also other comments were made to me by another colleague, so it's hard for all of ye to understand how I'm feeling when these "harmless" comments are being made and hard for me to communicate this in writing over a post.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, I find it very difficult to believe that 2 different sets of colleagues in 2 different companies both separately took it upon themselves to make homophobic remarks to you or somehow infer that you are gay.

Are you gay? If you are and you feel that you are being harrassed by people then make a formal complaint.

If you are not gay, then why on earth would you think everybody thinks that you are? Most likely nobody thinks, or cares whether you are or not. The most likely explanation is you are really really being very oversensitive to what people say. And the fact that you think everything is probably a gay dig at you, I'm sorry to say, but that says more about you than them.

If people look genuinely perplexed when you push them for meanings on what they've said, maybe it's because they just mean what they've said and can't give you any more explanation.

Stavro Mueller

OP, have you ever worked in an office where you didn't have problems with banter?

jos_kel

Stavro Mueller wrote: »

OP, have you ever worked in an office where you didn't have problems with banter?

Thanks everyone for your comments.
Just to answer some questions.
1. No I'm not gay nor am I homophobic
2. I have never had a problem with office banter anywhere I worked before.
In fact I enjoy the craic and banter as much as anyone.
I think though when a line gets crossed it changes from banter.
I have quite a good sense of humor and am not at all straight laced but I would never try and infer anything about 2 males or females sharing a lift home and certainly not persist with it.
But maybe it is just me but I believe when banter becomes persistent and targeted at one individual, well then it can no longer be termed banter.

Zen65

I've been confused reading this thread, OP, and your last post makes me wonder how much time you have put into thinking about this.

jos_kel wrote: »

Just to answer some questions.
1. No I'm not gay nor am I homophobic

If you are not homophobic then why are you troubled that somebody in your office may have implied that you were in some sort of relationship with "A"? I have not read the details of your previous office issues but from a glance they appear to be related to suggestions that you are gay. How exactly is this an insult?

jos_kel wrote: »

2. I have never had a problem with office banter anywhere I worked before.
In fact I enjoy the craic and banter as much as anyone.

You have had problems at least twice before; you posted about them here, and here.

From what you've written on Boards.ie it is clear you do not enjoy banter; you think about it deeply and look for an ulterior intent. There's no shame in admitting you don't enjoy banter, but that does not make this a case of bullying. It is self-delusional for you to suggest that you enjoy banter; this can only be said by somebody who is mentally healthy enough to listen to a joke at his / her own expense. From what you have written, I would think it's clear you are not wired that way.

jos_kel wrote: »

But maybe it is just me but I believe when banter becomes persistent and targeted at one individual, well then it can no longer be termed banter.

You've only mentioned two occasions (both very fleeting comments) where there was any banter directed at you about "A" and the office party. It was said by a different person each time. That's not persistent, not by any means. It's still very much banter.

All of which said, it seems to me to be very juvenile, silly banter. You have not explicitly said that the root of the 'joke' is an insinuation of a gay encounter between "A" and yourself, but if that's what it is then it's pretty unfunny, even for banter. Rather than engage any further in the matter I'd suggest you leave it alone, as any further discussion on the topic will only prolong the joke.

I can only suggest that you need to ask yourself why comments of this type trouble you? Are you investing time in trying to read into people's thoughts about you based on this kind of office talk? That is not a healthy way to think about banter of this kind.

retro:electro

But it hasn't been persistent? It was said twice as a joke and by two different people? You really need to look into who this is bothering you so much.

Tokyo

jos_kel wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your comments.
Just to answer some questions.
1. No I'm not gay nor am I homophobic
2. I have never had a problem with office banter anywhere I worked before.
In fact I enjoy the craic and banter as much as anyone.
I think though when a line gets crossed it changes from banter.
I have quite a good sense of humor and am not at all straight laced but I would never try and infer anything about 2 males or females sharing a lift home and certainly not persist with it.
But maybe it is just me but I believe when banter becomes persistent and targeted at one individual, well then it can no longer be termed banter.

But that's not entirely true though - as has been pointed out, you have posted on this same issue at least twice before, and I've taken the time to read though those threads and the factors involved seem very similar, yet the workplaces, colleagues involved and so on are completely different.

Apologies for the bluntness of this, but if you've worked in different environments with different people where the only common factor is you, then there comes a point where you have to ask yourself whether the issue might be with you, rather than with them. It's possible that you have had legitimate problems in the past with colleagues, is it not possible that this has made you oversensitive to office banter? To be honest it does sound like that to me.

At the end of the day, if you have a grievance then by all means talk to your manager or similar. My honest impression of all this is that you are reading far too much into a post Christmas party comment at work, and they may think the same, however I don't think you're going to be satisfied with that explanation. But if the response is one of confusion, then you should consider accepting that they are genuinely baffled as to what they have done wrong.

Stavro Mueller

OP I've worked in plenty of offices in my time and I think I've got a pretty good idea of the differences between banter and its more malicious neighbour - the jibe disguised with humour. At this stage of the thread I am none the wiser as to why you think the comments you outlined are sinister or some sort of subtle bullying. If people here can't see what you're reading into them, then I'm not sure how you expect anyone in your workplace to do so either.

"What did you do to him?" is an old chestnut of a joke. I've heard variations of it down the years and I'm sure other posters have as well. It's not meant to be malicious.
What exactly is it that you feel is being implied? You never came out and answered that properly. Having read your other thread, I can only assume that your gay paranoia is showing itself again and you reckon they're implying that Colleague A is still recovering from the gayest of gay gay gay sex he has had in his life. Seriously - what is it that you think they're getting at?

I think the homophobic experiences in your other workplace have given you a serious amount of baggage. Possibly have made you paranoid, humourless, anxious, unable to tell the difference between the throwaway jokes that grease the wheels of offices the world over and genuine harassment.

DeclanJWhite

I agree with matteroffact's answer, Joskel.

Also, I think targeted and persistent is definitely a sign. But even before it becomes targeted or persistent, if it's remarks in very poor taste to someone who doesn't share that way of talking and passing remarks, then it's out of place, too.

But they can't help that, it's just a clash of sense of humours. It's not pleasant for you if that's not the tone of banter you personally favour, but if you don't humour it with unsure laughter - and just remain calmly self-assured in not reacting to their humour, not feeling pressured into sharing it - just remaining yourself, then they'll respect that and they'll naturally separate their space from your space a little more.

You'll just be more professional with each other, which is all good and healthy for people who have different ways of exchanging banter.

But if you get offended or worried about their different way of talking, or show anxious concern and react with performance laughter to their joking, that's when there's a problem for you. And, if they are insensitive - which I'm not saying they are - but if they are, they'll ride roughshod over you and continue to joke in your presence in ways you don't enjoy, and inevitably you'll be the target sometimes, and because you'd be an easy target, reacting vulnerably to insensitive behaviour, you'd become a regular target.

So, I think, don't try to fit in with their sense of humour if it's off-key for your own type of sense of humour. There's just a difference between the way you socialize, ride that difference confidently, quietly, calmly, and then all boundaries for all people will remain happily in place.

That's not easy and it's an ongoing thing of trial and error. Good luck, my friend! :-)

kylith

I think you're being over sensitive, OP. I don't even really see any homosexual insinuation in what they said. I think you're reading unkind insinuation into regular banter. You were the last person to see A and they were simply joking about you having 'done something' to him, whether worn him out with sex or murdered him and buried him in a hole in the garden.

I work in an environment with a lot of guys and what you've said wouldn't even be on the scale in relation to the slagging they give each other.