Who's the fool?

pragmatic1

A basic college education in Ireland is not going to set you up for life, it's just a start. Probably due to the fact that so many people have college degrees in this country.

I have a lot of friends that took up trades instead of going to college. they're all doing much better financially that my friends that went the college route.

AngryHippie

Tyson Fury wrote: »

SomeAustralians are fools. Serious earning potential in oz, around 3k a week into the hand in some places for very basic work, yet lots of Australians are lazy, poor work ethic and allowing the Irish to clean up!

Only a fool would make such an assertion
Pass me a bucket. plenty of those places are desolate sh1tholes, they are being compensated for living in a hole, a jungle or a desert or the middle of nowhere, not for the class or skill of the work they do.
As for the Irish cleaning up, well that is a gross exaggeration if ever I have seen one. There are plenty of Irish over here working there arses off if thats what you mean. If you mean we are all living the high life and stuffing mattresses with cash, then I call a big old bullsh1t on that one. Plenty of us aren't on crazy money, but are happy to do a fair days work for a reasonable wage, live somewhere nice and have a healthy lifestyle.

Yes there are generational bludgers, there are plenty of people who don't see any value in academic qualification and value skill and experience over qualifications, but that is the nature of the countries economy, which is largely driven by primary industries rather than technological industries.

AndonHandon

kneemos wrote: »

Why are they so eager to hand out visa's then?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/87ra6qKzXDA/maxresdefault.jpg

Hoop66

Topper Harley wrote: »

"Great minds discuss ideas;
average minds discuss events;
small minds discuss people."

— Eleanor Roosevelt (allegedly)

Well she would say that, the things I could tell you about her...


*adjusts bosom*

Birneybau

Megan Plain Square wrote: »

The answer to this question is always "you".

Ok then. YOU!

oakshade

I dropped out of college in second year with no qualification and worked in a factory for a year or so. It wasn't for me so I went back to college and got my qualification in a completely different area (IT). My first 'proper' job out of college paid at least 5-6K less than what I earned in the factory and it took 2-3 years of work before I was on-par.

It's 14+ years later now, I'm in management and earn multiples of my initial factory salary. The factory also went out of business about 5 years ago and everyone was made redundant.

Stick with it - you are not the fool and it is worth it.

cml387

Before you know a man drive a mile in his digger.

You'll be a mile away and have his digger.

Cee-Jay-Cee

berger89 wrote: »

I know it's easy to say, but money isn't everything! He's been away for 5 years, missed plenty a family and friends events. You may think you'd like his money, but he probably wants your life (I don;t mean that rudely!)
)

That's your view but not the view of the majority of people who are in Australia and have decent jobs. Many don't want want to come back to this ****hole. They live in a nice country, have jobs and nice weather to be able to enjoy an outdoor healthy lifestyle. Maybe you wouldn't like being away but I know countless people in Australia that have no intention of coming back anytime soon. Sure they miss their families and friends but to say they're not happy and wish to be like those at home with no jobs is completely untrue. They left here because they don't want to be like those stuck here with no jobs.

I would take s good job and a life in Australia over any degree qualification any day. Things are not good in this country despite all the government BS about an improving economy, it's improving for those already well off but for the biggest majority it's the same as it was 3 or 4 years ago, nothing has changed.

Valetta

better call saul wrote: »

Aigh and what happens to all these cool dudes when the driving tractors in fields falls through they'll come back with no degree to fall back on don't worry about it kid keep the skunk in your balls

Find harder fields.

Caliden

Topper Harley wrote: »

Does he have a mortgage or could he afford the house outright?

Because if he has a mortgage he may find that he won't be able to move home and still afford it even if he wants to, so it's not the be all and end all.

If he managed to afford it outright then yeah, maybe you wasted 4 years in college, as did many others.

If it's similar work to a friend of mine then the house is bought outright.

He's working off shore on a detention centre. Gets flown out there by helicopter every 3 weeks and has 1 week off. He chooses to work his week off and just keeps working.

He's just gone mad for money but who could blame him as there's nothing for him at home. He's been there over 4 years now and he's closing on €1 million with the work he is doing. I've had other friends visit Australia and he met up with them for a few days but went back working again while they were there.

That's the life he chose and fair play to him but in my eyes he is just selling his youth.

WhiteWalls

Caliden wrote: »

If it's similar work to a friend of mine then the house is bought outright.

He's working off shore on a detention centre. Gets flown out there by helicopter every 3 weeks and has 1 week off. He chooses to work his week off and just keeps working.

He's just gone mad for money but who could blame him as there's nothing for him at home. He's been there over 4 years now and he's closing on €1 million with the work he is doing. I've had other friends visit Australia and he met up with them for a few days but went back working again while they were there.

That's the life he chose and fair play to him but in my eyes he is just selling his youth.

Very hard to argue against 1 million bucks however

mitresize5

I know this is after hours so was considering not posting a serious reply but hows ever ......

You should always be thinking medium to long term about your career and life prospect. What am I doing now to secure and build for my future. Its a long life you have.

Build some experience, work the ****ty jobs for 24/25K, put your head down and work hard, don't be afraid to jump jobs to get to the next level responsibility and financially wise.

Your cousin has likely reached the peak of his financial earning and is undoubtedly doing well for himself. You on the other hand are only starting out but you will likely progress and increase your earning for the rest of you career. There isn't a decent job in Ireland that doesn't start with 'Degree plus X years experience.

Quick example - went to college with a guy who dropped out to be a plaster, talented guy as well, could have done well. Met him occasionally over the next few years and he was increasingly smug in telling me how much he earned. Peaked with me meeting him in West Clare one afternoon pulling a jetski behind his jeep. Fast forward ten years and I occasionally give him two euros at the tool booth on my way to work. I'm the one in the management role, good salary, paid health insurance, good pension and share options.

Stick with it - its a long life

Cee-Jay-Cee

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I would take s good job and a life in Australia over any degree qualification any day. Things are not good in this country despite all the government BS about an improving economy, it's improving for those already well off but for the biggest majority it's the same as it was 3 or 4 years ago, nothing has changed.

If you have a degree (or higher) in a good subject there are jobs in Ireland, I know of positions that cant be filled as finding people with the right qualifications is very very hard.

As for living in Australia, plenty wouldn't even consider it including myself. Being away from family and friends is a big deal to many so staying and working in Ireland is the only thing they will consider.

Micky Dolenz

I worked in Oz for a year and made a cool $600k. When I changed it to £, 'twas about 260 quid.

berger89

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

That's your view but not the view of the majority of people who are in Australia and have decent jobs. Many don't want want to come back to this ****hole. They live in a nice country, have jobs and nice weather to be able to enjoy an outdoor healthy lifestyle. Maybe you wouldn't like being away but I know countless people in Australia that have no intention of coming back anytime soon. Sure they miss their families and friends but to say they're not happy and wish to be like those at home with no jobs is completely untrue. They left here because they don't want to be like those stuck here with no jobs.

I would take s good job and a life in Australia over any degree qualification any day. Things are not good in this country despite all the government BS about an improving economy, it's improving for those already well off but for the biggest majority it's the same as it was 3 or 4 years ago, nothing has changed.

and that's your view, not the majority of people who are in Australia or Ireland for that matter

eternal

It's well known you get very good money in Aussie for labour related jobs. I would prefer to be educated than drive a basic machine. He just happened to be lucky with money and money comes and goes but education lasts all of your life. Why compare yourself to some ****e like that.

callaway92

Turtwig wrote: »

The fool is the person who must look outward to consider his own satisfaction.

Or something to that extent.

You have no idea what their life is actually like. Focus on your own.

Wow, nice post!

eternal

I pity the fool etc

Jamsiek

berger89 wrote: »

He's been away for 5 years, missed plenty a family and friends events. You may think you'd like his money, but he probably wants your life (I don;t mean that rudely!)

The thing is that if he wanted the life of being back in Ireland he would probably have moved back. Maybe he likes where he is and doesn't feel that he is missing out on much. Who knows.

berger89 wrote: »

You have a degree behind you. And look, different strokes for different folks.
If you can't beat em, join em!

Good point, great to have a degree behind you, lasts you for life and an Irish degree is recognized around the world too.

B.A._Baracus

eternal wrote: »

I pity the fool etc

... :eek:

Macavity.

Never envy a person's apparent happiness. Behind the mask they are rotting away, just like all of us.

Calina

WhiteWalls wrote: »

I was at a family wedding over the Christmas. There is a good few of us cousins around the same age, i.e just a couple of years out of college trying to get set up at what we want to do. None of us are what you would call flush with cash or will be any time soon.

Cousin of mine just about has a Leaving Cert is driving a machine(s) in Australia for the past 5 years. He is only 18 months older than me and has a house bought here which he is now renting while he is back in Oz.

I genuinely feel like I have wasted the last 4 years in college.

People have different priorities. The question you need to ask yourself is this: would you be happy having done what he did? It doesn't matter really if he is.

Additionally, fwiw, while I don't own a house, because I refused to get caught up in the mess here, a few of my friends have pointed out that my ability to dis-entangle my life from here and go somewhere else is much more than theirs and allows me freedoms they can only dream about.

I guess I'm saying you need to make the best decisions for you, and not with reference to what you think about other people's lives.

The_Captain

Maybe he's unhappy. Maybe he's not.

All we do know is that he owns a gaff and he's absolutely milking it, so I guess he wins this round

OldNotWIse

kneemos wrote: »

So he can never leave?

He can check out any time though :pac:

Xios

I always find it amusing when everyone says, "Sure you'll have a degree behind ya", as if its some ticket to employment, it's really not, it helps a bit, but jaysus, it's like joining the priesthood back in the day, it's not the be all and end all.

I'm inclined to agree with ole Matt Damon in "Good Will Hunting" when he said you can get a better education from a Library.

I'll have a Honours degree in business this october, and I honestly think the entire thing was a complete waste of time. I learned more useful stuff watching youtube videos about the topics than I ever did in lectures. The only useful thing I got out of college is proof that I attended the place.

There are only two real reasons to attend college, to pursue a career in academics, and to get specialist training into a specific role/job.

If you're going to college for the sake of going to college, then you're doing it wrong.

I think there should be much more options for people to study part time with more flexibility around a working life.

Edit:// Just an example, I work in the Civil Service as a Temp clerical officer. Among my other colleagues who are also temps, out of the 40 odd people in my office, I know of 8 of them that have a third level education. That's just the ones i talk to.

So at a cost of about 7,000 euro per year of education over a 4 year degree, there is €224,000 worth of education doing menial, simple clerical tasks that anyone with a junior cert could do.

PizzamanIRL

The toilets flush in the opposite direction in Australia so I think you'll find that he is in fact the fool.

Jawgap

There's a mining downturn in Oz at the moment.

A cousin of mine went out there as an accountant and was working for one of the mining companies - when he saw how much the machinery operatives were getting he was complaining about the time he spent training and studying when he'd have been better off learning to drive a digger!!

This Christmas though, he was telling us how it was all turning around - a lot of the mines are laying off staff or shutting down completely. The people being laid off are getting big pay offs, but what happens if things don't turn back quickly?

In his case, he still has a job - even when you're disposing of businesses it seems you still need the bean counters.

Jawgap

Xios wrote: »

I always find it amusing when everyone says, "Sure you'll have a degree behind ya", as if its some ticket to employment, it's really not, it helps a bit, but jaysus, it's like joining the priesthood back in the day, it's not the be all and end all.

I'm inclined to agree with ole Matt Damon in "Good Will Hunting" when he said you can get a better education from a Library.

I'll have a Honours degree in business this october, and I honestly think the entire thing was a complete waste of time. I learned more useful stuff watching youtube videos about the topics than I ever did in lectures. The only useful thing I got out of college is proof that I attended the place.

There are only two real reasons to attend college, to pursue a career in academics, and to get specialist training into a specific role/job.

If you're going to college for the sake of going to college, then you're doing it wrong.

I think there should be much more options for people to study part time with more flexibility around a working life.

Edit:// Just an example, I work in the Civil Service as a Temp clerical officer. Among my other colleagues who are also temps, out of the 40 odd people in my office, I know of 8 of them that have a third level education. That's just the ones i talk to.

So at a cost of about 7,000 euro per year of education over a 4 year degree, there is €224,000 worth of education doing menial, simple clerical tasks that anyone with a junior cert could do.

A good degree is a means, not an end - it gives you choices and options that can choose to pursue or not. Too many people graduate and think they've arrived - wrong! That's just the start.

I agree that doing a degree for the sake of doing a degree is a waste of time and money - and there are a lot of useless arts, media etc courses out there. I'm not saying we don't need arts and media graduates, we just don't need them in the numbers they're being churned out.

there are also plenty of flexible educational options that combine work and education, unfortunately a lot of educational institutions in Ireland are not up with best international practice in this area.

eamonnq

Macavity. wrote: »

Never envy a person's apparent happiness. Behind the mask they are rotting away, just like all of us.

That's the spirit, no-one is happy even though they might appear to be pretending to be happier than the rest of us!!

Xios

Jawgap wrote: »

A good degree is a means, not an end - it gives you choices and options that can choose to pursue or not. Too many people graduate and think they've arrived - wrong! That's just the start.

I agree that doing a degree for the sake of doing a degree is a waste of time and money - and there are a lot of useless arts, media etc courses out there. I'm not saying we don't need arts and media graduates, we just don't need them in the numbers they're being churned out.

there are also plenty of flexible educational options that combine work and education, unfortunately a lot of educational institutions in Ireland are not up with best international practice in this area.

I agree, expecially your last point. I would love to see more of this. My brother is in the application process of doing an ICT apprenticeship. Which I think is great, it's essentially a trade apprenticeship for the IT sector, which i've never really seen. All IT jobs in Ireland seem to require a degree, which seems rather redundant to me, a lot of IT skills are practical and not academic, you need to know how to operate the tools. Imagine if we required mechanics to have engineering degrees or carpenters a degree in forestry, it just seems out of touch with reality.