Now Ye're Talking - to an Insurance Underwriter

Pete123456

would an 'executive commercial' as they're known (a commercial jeep with 5 seats rather than 2) be treated the same as a standard 5 seater jeep for insurance premium calculation? Or would it be a good bit cheaper, seen as commercial jeep insurance is fairly low considering engine size

Liam McPoyle

Pete123456 wrote: »

would an 'executive commercial' as they're known (a commercial jeep with 5 seats rather than 2) be treated the same as a standard 5 seater jeep for insurance premium calculation? Or would it be a good bit cheaper, seen as commercial jeep insurance is fairly low considering engine size

A jeep with seats in the back would be rated in general as a private motor vehicle. Ive never heard the term "commercial executive" tbh!

The only exception are crew cabs which would be rated as commercial vehicles.

Pete123456

Business Cat wrote: »

A jeep with seats in the back would be rated in general as a private motor vehicle. Ive never heard the term "commercial executive" tbh!

The only exception are crew cabs which would be rated as commercial vehicles.

Yeah they're new from Toyota, Mitsubishi and Land Rover... Classed as a commercial (tax is 333) but have 5 seats. I'm wrong with that term I meant to say business commercial! They're a new thing coming to the market... Just wondering how they'd be classed insurance wise. Have a look at the Pajero executive or the land cruiser business commercial if you get a minute

http://m.independent.ie/business/farming/savings-of-10000-likely-as-new-rules-unveiled-for-jeeps-30340286.html

Liam McPoyle

Would have to be insured privately.

The commercial insurance would not cover it I feel.

mykillokneel

Hi business cat can you tell me is it possible to get trailer theft insurance. I bought a new trailer 6 months ago (around 3k). Insurance company will cover it while attached but not if it gets stolen from home or if it's off the van at work. I have public liability insurance with a tool allowance cover with same company and they won't cover it this way. Have tried specialist trailer insurance companies they only cover horse boxes. Have asked home insurance they said they won't cover it as contents as it's not part of the house and not always there (guy said something like if I brought my tv to work it wouldn't covered! !!)
Do you know any other options open to me? My van got robbed outside my house last year never recovered so a bit paranoid!!!

P.s it has proper hitch locks etc always locked on or off van but that wouldn't stop someone if they wanted to take it id imagine.

Thanks

passremarkable

mykillokneel wrote: »

Hi business cat can you tell me is it possible to get trailer theft insurance. I bought a new trailer 6 months ago (around 3k). Insurance company will cover it while attached but not if it gets stolen from home or if it's off the van at work. I have public liability insurance with a tool allowance cover with same company and they won't cover it this way. Have tried specialist trailer insurance companies they only cover horse boxes. Have asked home insurance they said they won't cover it as contents as it's not part of the house and not always there (guy said something like if I brought my tv to work it wouldn't covered! !!)
Do you know any other options open to me? My van got robbed outside my house last year never recovered so a bit paranoid!!!

P.s it has proper hitch locks etc always locked on or off van but that wouldn't stop someone if they wanted to take it id imagine.

Thanks

Just add it on to your car or commercial vehicle policy, whichever you have.
should be no problem with that

mykillokneel

passremarkable wrote: »

Just add it on to your car or commercial vehicle policy, whichever you have.
should be no problem with that

Nope they won't cover it if it's off the van. Come to think of it I think 'attached trailer' may just mean they cover it if I crash or its gets damaged while on the van and not stolen. Nobody seems to cover it if someone pulls up outside the house tonight and takes it away(regardless of how they manage to steal it, (break lock, hook onto half hitch, rachet strap etc)

Zebrano

Can u insure a van privately

passremarkable

mykillokneel wrote: »

Nope they won't cover it if it's off the van. Come to think of it I think 'attached trailer' may just mean they cover it if I crash or its gets damaged while on the van and not stolen. Nobody seems to cover it if someone pulls up outside the house tonight and takes it away(regardless of how they manage to steal it, (break lock, hook onto half hitch, rachet strap etc)

why not.. add it on as an implement to the policy, surely they have a theft option which you can pay a premium for theft/third party or even comp cover??

mykillokneel

passremarkable wrote: »

why not.. add it on as an implement to the policy, surely they have a theft option which you can pay a premium for theft/third party or even comp cover??

Have asked them all this, it's a broker by the way they said insurance won't cover it as part of my policy as if it's off the van its deemed not part of it and therefore can't cover it on the same policy if you know what I mean? And they don't do separate trailer policies. I've no problem paying for it to be covered that's why I contacted specialist trailer insurers but they won't either!!

passremarkable

mykillokneel wrote: »

Have asked them all this, it's a broker by the way they said insurance won't cover it as part of my policy as if it's off the van its deemed not part of it and therefore can't cover it on the same policy if you know what I mean? And they don't do separate trailer policies. I've no problem paying for it to be covered that's why I contacted specialist trailer insurers but they won't either!!

Oh right, i think thats unusual.
Id imagine all the big players would cover this .ie Axa, Zurich, FBD, Aviva.
Did you try any of those perhaps

mykillokneel

passremarkable wrote: »

Oh right, i think thats unusual.
Id imagine all the big players would cover this .ie Axa, Zurich, FBD, Aviva.
Did you try any of those perhaps

My policy is with axa through broker. Have motor and pl with them and they won't cover it through either. Broker tried couple of other he said and same as above won't cover it off van.

Edit: I get why they won't cover it for theft, they didn't cover the tools inside when the van was robbed either that was one benefit of my pl insurance but my problem is I can't find anyone who will cover it

pmsurveys

I'm hearing on the tech side that the internet of things could lead to "pay as you go" type insurance or individual rates based on driving style, mileage, hours of driving etc, as they can all be tracked quite accurately with gadgets installed in cars. Do you see this ever taking off ? It should / could reduce deaths on the roads if poor driving = high premium ?

flyingsnail

Why do they still use engine size when calculating a premium when it often bears no relation to the power of the engine?

easygoing1982

What would you recommend to look out for or have included in health insurance.

Is there a time limit you have to wait before you use this insurance.

For instance if i bought a policy today and needed an MRI, admitted to hospital could i use the policy tomorrow

Liam McPoyle

mykillokneel wrote: »

Hi business cat can you tell me is it possible to get trailer theft insurance. I bought a new trailer 6 months ago (around 3k). Insurance company will cover it while attached but not if it gets stolen from home or if it's off the van at work. I have public liability insurance with a tool allowance cover with same company and they won't cover it this way. Have tried specialist trailer insurance companies they only cover horse boxes. Have asked home insurance they said they won't cover it as contents as it's not part of the house and not always there (guy said something like if I brought my tv to work it wouldn't covered! !!)
Do you know any other options open to me? My van got robbed outside my house last year never recovered so a bit paranoid!!!

P.s it has proper hitch locks etc always locked on or off van but that wouldn't stop someone if they wanted to take it id imagine.

Thanks

Alot of companies will give you the option of covering a trailer under a commercial motor policy. As you are through a brokers though that could be where you are having the issue. I know with 100% certainty that FBD have a policy that allows you the option to cover a trailer for comprehensive cover under a commercial motor policy. Setanta used to offer the same and Im pretty sure Zurich & Aviva do too.

Zebrano wrote: »

Can u insure a van privately

No, a van is a commercial vehicle and private insurance is not suitable for it. If you manage to get a private insurance on a van, or vice versa, you are essentially uninsured.

pmsurveys wrote: »

I'm hearing on the tech side that the internet of things could lead to "pay as you go" type insurance or individual rates based on driving style, mileage, hours of driving etc, as they can all be tracked quite accurately with gadgets installed in cars. Do you see this ever taking off ? It should / could reduce deaths on the roads if poor driving = high premium ?

A few companies have this "telematics" option, No Nonsense been one, I think Aviva had a similar system too.

It basically is a tracking device in your motor that records, mileage, speeds etc.

Cant see it taking off in any meaningful way tbh, people seem to have a fear of "big brother" watching them.

Liam McPoyle

flyingsnail wrote: »

Why do they still use engine size when calculating a premium when it often bears no relation to the power of the engine?

More often than not it does though, thats why its still used.

Most companies will have an underwriting grouping guide that differentiates between the different capabilities and the vehicles are rated accordingly.

Eg 2.0l car with 135BHP will be rated lower than a 2.0l car with 190BHP.

A 2.0 with 135BHP will likely be rated the same as a 2.0l car with 150BHP.

Believe me, there is nothing insurance companies do not know about when it comes to motors.

easygoing1982 wrote: »

What would you recommend to look out for or have included in health insurance.

Is there a time limit you have to wait before you use this insurance.

For instance if i bought a policy today and needed an MRI, admitted to hospital could i use the policy tomorrow

Im not overly familiar with health insurance but yes, there are lead in / waiting times for using it.

Eg, if a female buys health insurance, cover for pregnancy related treatments/expenses is restricted usually for 12 months.

Depending on your age then the waiting times are longer.

For pre-existing conditions the waiting times can be anywhere from 2 to 5 years.

The exceptions to this are accidental injuries.

Eg, you buy health insurance today, and get hit by a car tomorrow, you are fully covered.

mykillokneel

Thanks for replying I just paid broker last week for another year with axa so I guess
I'll be waiting another year and keeping it as safe as possible.

Zebrano

What if you want a van for doing things like bringing the dogs the beach and going mountain biking and jus general personal use and your not using it for any kind of business

Yawns

Hey Business Cat,

Thanks for anwersing my previous question. You were correct of course with what they offered actually being higher than I was expecting as my best hope even. One more question tho is since my car was stolen and burnt out, now that they will be paying out, will I lose my NCB as someone had mentioned that since it's a theft claim, I should keep my NCB and be free to move to another insurer come renewal time with my full 6 years NCB. Also in future, would I need to delcare this claim for all insurers for a certain period of time.

Thanks

Liam McPoyle

Zebrano wrote: »

What if you want a van for doing things like bringing the dogs the beach and going mountain biking and jus general personal use and your not using it for any kind of business

Insurance companies do not care what you want a van for, once its not a restricted occupation/activity there is no issue.

Its the law/government that has an issue with using a commercial vehicle for non commercial activities/social domestic + pleasure only.

Liam McPoyle

Yawns wrote: »

Hey Business Cat,

Thanks for anwersing my previous question. You were correct of course with what they offered actually being higher than I was expecting as my best hope even. One more question tho is since my car was stolen and burnt out, now that they will be paying out, will I lose my NCB as someone had mentioned that since it's a theft claim, I should keep my NCB and be free to move to another insurer come renewal time with my full 6 years NCB. Also in future, would I need to delcare this claim for all insurers for a certain period of time.

Thanks

As it was a non fault claim, there should be no impact on your NCB.

You need to declare every single claim or incident you are involved in, even if it had no effect on your bonus. Windscreen / glass claims should be declared aswell, just for complete disclosure.

Yawns

Business Cat wrote: »

As it was a non fault claim, there should be no impact on your NCB.

You need to declare every single claim or incident you are involved in, even if it had no effect on your bonus. Windscreen / glass claims should be declared aswell, just for complete disclosure.

Ok brilliant for that, thanks.

Cookie_Monster

do you agree with compulsory (motor) insurance?

Context: I live in NZ now and your yearly car tax (rego) is all you need and acts as a Third party ins. You can of course get additional insurance and most people would. But because it's optional rather than compulsory it's way cheaper (I realise there are other factors too). The same system could work in Ireland... though the aforementioned compo culture would have to be dealt with, none of that here!
Over here I can insure a 3l legacy for 320 euro fully comp, lifetime NCB for both me and the wife I guarantee I'd not get a quote under 1k back home

Liam McPoyle

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

do you agree with compulsory (motor) insurance?

Context: I live in NZ now and your yearly car tax (rego) is all you need and acts as a Third party ins. You can of course get additional insurance and most people would. But because it's optional rather than compulsory it's way cheaper (I realise there are other factors too). The same system could work in Ireland... though the aforementioned compo culture would have to be dealt with, none of that here!
Over here I can insure a 3l legacy for 320 euro fully comp, lifetime NCB for both me and the wife I guarantee I'd not get a quote under 1k back home

IMO its an absolute necessity.

If the motor tax was to absorb the cost of third party insurance then the tax rates would have to increase, there would simply be no other option.

So higher tax to give TPO cover, six of one, half a dozen of another imo.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Very interesting thread, thanks for taking the time to give an insight into an industry that most people (myself included) detest as a necessary (due to legislation) evil.

Business Cat wrote: »

No, a van is a commercial vehicle and private insurance is not suitable for it. If you manage to get a private insurance on a van, or vice versa, you are essentially uninsured.

.

I do have a query about that one though, you can't be uninsured if you get a private policy on a van. To use a privately taxed van for SD&P purposes only, how does one insure it? Privately of course. Lots of "car vans" are insured and taxed privately, the likes of fiesta vans golf vans etc.

Liam McPoyle

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Very interesting thread, thanks for taking the time to give an insight into an industry that most people (myself included) detest as a necessary (due to legislation) evil.



I do have a query about that one though, you can't be uninsured if you get a private policy on a van. To use a privately taxed van for SD&P purposes only, how does one insure it? Privately of course. Lots of "car vans" are insured and taxed privately, the likes of fiesta vans golf vans etc.

By definition, a van is a commercial vehicle so it should not be taxed privately.

Tax and insurance are 2 completely separate things and have no bearing on eachother.

A car van should not be insured privately. Private insurance provides extra cover (and is therefore more expensive) for passangers, there are seats, seat belts etc in cars.

In a car van there is only one seat but what you are basically saying is that the driver can load however many people they can fit into the back of it and be fully covered, think about they logically for a minute, it does not make any sense whatsoever.

You say that lots of car vans are insured privately, I'd be very interested to see examples of this, I've yet to see any insurance company KNOWINGLY insure a car van as a private vehicle in the over 5 years that I've been in the industry.

There may well be car vans that have private insurance but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if something were to happen then the policy holder could be in bother.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Business Cat wrote: »

By definition, a van is a commercial vehicle so it should not be taxed privately.

Tax and insurance are 2 completely separate things and have no bearing on eachother.

A car van should not be insured privately. Private insurance provides extra cover (and is therefore more expensive) for passangers, there are seats, seat belts etc in cars.

In a car van there is only one seat but what you are basically saying is that the driver can load however many people they can fit into the back of it and be fully covered, think about they logically for a minute, it does not make any sense whatsoever.

You say that lots of car vans are insured privately, I'd be very interested to see examples of this, I've yet to see any insurance company KNOWINGLY insure a car van as a private vehicle in the over 5 years that I've been in the industry.

There may well be car vans that have private insurance but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if something were to happen then the policy holder could be in bother.

The first two bolded lines there would be in your opinion., as it is enforced legally the other way (Van being used for private use must be covered by either private policy or commercial with SDP clause). AGS would have a different opinion to the one you expressed above. It's ok to have opinions on your industry and your experiences but please don't present opinions as fact.

The third bolded point, I would invert, think about it logically also. Commercial policies are for people that are in business or using the vehicle for business purposes. What does John who works for facebook but surfs at the weekend put as his reason for needing a commerical policy? And the point about loading people in the back is nonsensical. Do people do that with private vehicles and put people in the load space? What a silly suggestion.

The final point I wish to expand upon. A couple of years ago i was looking to buy a new car. As an at the time single male professional with no ties and no children, I was looking at car vans as they were cheaper than the 5 seat equivalent. I called my insurer to ask if I could switch my policy to such a car van. They (britton insurance brokers) after contacting my insurer advised that once the carvan was taxed privately and used only privately (they verified my employment status as an office worker and that I didnt need the van for work) , tehy would switch my private policy over to the car van.
I contacted my local tax office and they told me that post 2008 car vans would be taxed on CC if taxed privately. They also said that commercial tax is only for commercial users with commercial vehicles. The tax office said similar about tax.

I have the emails in my inbox if you'd like me to post them for reference (they are from 2010 so would need to be dug out from an archive, but they are there.) Linked back to my comment about posting opinion as fact.


Apologies if I have dragged this way OT now.

Liam McPoyle

When the whole nonsense with the tax kicked off in 2010 (iirc) I was getting calls every single day from people concerned that if they were using their commercial motor for non commercial purposes eg going to the shops, mass, etc, that they werent covered which of course is not true.

A motor policy in this country has to provide some kind of s, d + p cover, without it then the vehicles could realistically never be driven unless going to or from work or during working hours, for the purpose of your job.

You may well have gotten a commercial motor insured privately however I will take my 5 years + experience over the time you got a policy if its all the same with you.

So just in case there are any more ambiguities, in my experience I have never encountered an insurance company that was happy to insure a commercial motor or car van as a private vehicle, that ok with you?

jimgoose

Business Cat wrote: »

By definition, a van is a commercial vehicle so it should not be taxed privately...

?