That's a first!

Eo1n8wrd

So after getting my .243 a few months ago I've burned a lot of rounds practicing, I don't like to think about how many as ye all know the price of the little buggers.
I have mainly been using Hornady, 95gr & 100gr btsps, with the 100s grouping the best for me, I tried Federal as well and had no probs but never tried them at any major distance, I also tried a box of Remington 100gr corelokt, had feeding issues with all 20 rounds! no idea what was wrong with them.
Recently I felt I was capable and confident enough to take a shot at an animal. Had a couple of grey crows with the 95grainers, clean kills in a puff of feathers!
Today I got my first goat!

I forgot to take a pictures while I was out, only thought of it when I was back inside the stables dressing it out, but here ye go:

http://postimg.org/image/ph2y1axdv/

I watched the herd for quite a while, getting up to 100yds easily, picked out a handy sized young one about a year old (didn't fancy lugging a big billy back down the mountain)

I had the crosshairs right at the base of its skull, quartering away, grazing, trigger was set, nice position, exhale, squeeze and CLICK, F**K, re-cocked it, lined up on target, squeeze and CLICK, bugger of a dud round!!! long story short, second round floored it, dead as a doornail!

The round in question when I looked had a dent in the primer but obviously not enough to set it off but it is noticeably shallower than normal, and if you look really carefully the primer almost looks to be a fraction deeper in the cartridge, I have attached a photo of it below next to the brass that I fired after it. the dud also looks in the photo to have a different color primer but its just the light.
http://postimg.org/image/c0jy46t9d/

I should add that all the hornady stuff I've burned to date has been in the normal brown boxes, this was a box of the flashy American whitetail stuff! still 100gr, same specs just a different box and newer lot number.

Eo1n8wrd

Would ye maybe mention about a misfire to the dealer ye got the ammo off or email hornady about it?

Cass

I'm having trouble opening the images so cannot see the problem, but from what you describe it could be:

• Hard primer
• Seated too deep, hence poor strike
• Fouling of the bolt
• Damaged firing pin

Causes and resolutions would include:

• Hard primers are just what it sounds like. Some require a harder strike to the make up of the shell. The hard primers would take a second firing to fire the round. I've also seen primers that were soft. In that the firing pin sometimes pierced the primer. This varied from gun to gun. As in some guns would work with some primers but not with others.
• If the primer is seated to deep then the firing does not make the full strike on it. This on it's own is bad enough, but if it's coupled with a hard primer then you will get mis-fires.
• Is the gun new? If so then it cannot be fouling. If no then there could be a build up of fouling in the bolt. I always trip my bolts twice a year and clean them. If you're not sure there are tons of videos on every kind of bolt. Just be careful when stripping, take notes of what you do (record on camera if necessary) and do it on a large towel so no parts go flying.
• If the gun is second hand it may have a damaged firing pin. It only takes a fraction of an inch to cause the firing to not fire correctly. You wouldn't notice it with the naked eye, or if you're not sure what you are looking for. However the tip of the pin should be rounded and perfectly symmetrical. If there seems to be a chip or flattening of it then it might need to be checked by a gunsmith.

FISMA

Nice shot! Hope it tastes great and didn't stink too bad!

Eo1n8wrd wrote: »

Would ye maybe mention about a misfire to the dealer ye got the ammo off or email hornady about it?

Y'up, would talk to both.

Indeed, as you noticed, it looks like the primer was pushed in too much. Note the surface area of the firing pin's mark is considerably smaller on the LHS image than the RHS.

Still, looks like a good enough strike to set it off.

How long did you wait to ensure she did not go off? I give modern ammo a minute and older war ammo a bit more.

That same happened to me with the brown box, very disappointing. I think the Whitetail stuff is about the same level.

Cass

Can someone stick up the pictures again. Can see nothing.

Eo1n8wrd

working on it Cass

Eo1n8wrd

Eo1n8wrd

Cheers for the replies,
I think it might just be a dodgy round, every round before it and the one after it went off fine and all the primer strikes are the same bar that one.
Just was a bit annoyed as it was the first "big game" I had lined up on.
Honestly after the first click I recocked it after about 5 seconds but after the second I waited but it was for less than a minute, just got down behind the wall and chambered a second, didn't want to wait too long as the one I had picked was in a perfect spot with a solid backstop, rest were mainly older ones or heavily pregnant or wee babbies or hidden by bushes.

Cass

Got it now.



FISMA was right. The left round is obviously the problem one. You'll se how the primer is seated too deep and the primer striker is smaller in size/diameter than the one on the right. This is what i was saying above about fractions of an inch making a huge difference.

As FISMA said, i'd wait longer in case the mis-fire turns into a hangfire. At least a minute.

Eo1n8wrd

I sincerely hope it never happens again
I was thinking about it at the time, will they want it returned to them so they can have a look or should I just pull the bullet and ditch the propellant?

FISMA

Eo1n8wrd wrote: »

I think it might just be a dodgy round...

I bet you didn't pay a dodgy price though, correct? It just bothers me when this happens with a name like Hornady. Also, don't get me started on the Winchester brass:mad: being sold by Hornady! Definitely report.

Eo1n8wrd wrote: »

Honestly after the first click I recocked it after about 5 seconds

That is a mistake. If that round goes off while you are racking, bad things could happen.

To be honest, I know no-one that has ever had a problem with a delay fire in good quality modern ammo. However, if you shoot the old corrosive war stuff, different story. I know people that pulled the trigger on surplus 8mm Mauser that had a shot 7 seconds after the firing pin struck.

As much as it hurts to wait, your life is not worth the extra minute.

Cass

Couldn't agree more with FISMA. I've seen hangfires after 20+ seconds. I've also seen the results of a round going off when the bolt is lifted too soon. Put it this way, the bolt cannot go forward only back, and your head/face is not that strong. Seriously dude, i've missed deer while waiting the proper amount of time after a mis-fire.

Report it to Hornady, but as for sending it back. You couldn't even if you wanted to. How do you send a live round, that potentially (and it's really a small, small chance) could go off. You could try firing it again, but be careful about pulling the bullet. You know the whole speel about component parts, but if you want to do it for safety reasons then pull the bullet, bump the propellant, and bin the case.

Eo1n8wrd

As they say; I dodged a bullet there.
I have seen and understand the theory or misfires in rimfire stuff, ie. primer not sitting right all the way round the rim, but I always thought that with centerfire it either fires or it doesn't without any middleground.
They were the loudest two clicks I ever heard!

Eo1n8wrd

Out of curiosity how many misfires have ye seen, with what calibres and brands?
Not looking to name and shame or slate brands, just out of curiosity!

FISMA

Eo1n8wrd wrote: »

As they say; I dodged a bullet there.

Here's a good habit for you. Always open a new box of ammo with the bullet down and primers showing. Then, rub your thumb across the primers and feel for errors.

What concerns me most is the high primer. One that may go off in a slam fire. That is, fired by the bolt while attempting to load the next round.

Eo1n8wrd wrote: »

Out of curiosity how many misfires have ye seen, with what calibres and brands?
Not looking to name and shame or slate brands, just out of curiosity!

With good quality modern center fire factory ammo, I have not witnessed many issues at all. Most problems are with older corrosive ammo and cheaper commie stuff. As for rimfire misfires, happens a lot.

I gave up shooting the centerfire commie stuff (Wolf, Brown Bear,...) as I had too many problems and worried about the problem I would not catch.

Once while loading a 9mm magazine I could actually feel the round was too light. I disposed of it properly, but could not help wonder if after the primer successfully got the bullet stuck in the barrel, would I have continued to pull the trigger.

That's why I do not rapid fire and why you always count y'er holes in the paper or look for a splash.

Any weird sounds, like a pop when there should have been a crack, drop the bolt and look through that barrel. Anything and I mean anything that gives you pause for thought, drop the bolt and look through the barrel.

Have a look at the below image, it's the round on the right that worries me most.

Cass

Eo1n8wrd wrote: »

I have seen and understand the theory or misfires in rimfire stuff, ie. primer not sitting right all the way round the rim, but I always thought that with centerfire it either fires or it doesn't without any middleground.

Rimfire cartridges don't have a primer in the sense of what you are thinking of.

They have a priming "gel". All rimfire brass has a slight hollow on the head of the case. A small amount of the priming gel is placed into the case and the case is spun to spread it evenly around the head of the case. In it's wet form it's stable, but when it dries it becomes far more sensitive and when the firing pin impacts it it fires and ignites the propellant.

A centrefire has a"stand alone" primer. The primer has "explosive material (not sure what it is) in it. When the firing pin strikes the primer it crushes the explosive (against something in the primer cup) and creates a shower of sparks which in turn ignite the propellant. Okay the description of the components might be exact (names, etc) but you get how it works.

Its the reason no one reloads for rimfire (well few people). Its not so much that the price saving is not worth it, or that reloaded ammo is going to be significantly better than factory stuff, it's because it's so dangerous. Even in America the plant that manufacturers rimfire stuff is kept a very, very safe distance from the rest of the factory because it's so volatile.

Eo1n8wrd wrote: »

Out of curiosity how many misfires have ye seen, with what calibres and brands?
Not looking to name and shame or slate brands, just out of curiosity!

I've had a couple, and seen a few. More so when reloading because the primers were hard or seated too deep. Even though you know what it is you still have to sit there and wait.

I honestly cannot remember the last time i had one or what ammo it was. As said above with the newer stuff it's rare, and like with your situation it's not the propellant or primer, just the manufacturing process that is at fault. If the primer was another 0.5mm furthe rout the round would have fired.