Dublin Airport ATC and BA Exchange

basill

Sounds like someone is trying to cover ones ar*e. Any commercial pilot takes a NOTAM with a grain of salt. If you believed everything in them then we would never get into the air in the first place. They are but one piece of a large jigsaw and you use them as a tool to get the job done. If ATC ask you to taxi onto a runway that is NOTAMd as closed then the first thing I would do is look at the window and the second is to query if its still closed as per NOTAM if I was worried about ending up a dead end and needing a tug to drag me out.

FWVT

If PPRuNe closed the thread because "BA/IAA are investigating it..." then they should also close all other threads about topics into which there are investigations, such as the Air Asia tread. It smacks of pure censorship and hypocracy. I wonder if it had been, say a Korean Airlines pilot at JFK, would they take the same stance?

cml387

PPRUNE are now hypersensitive to any problems since they were dragged through the courts by Ryanair. I guess any threads that would prove contentious will be closed down for fear of any legals.

basill

Agreed. You cant even mention a certain ME airline by name no matter what comment you wish to pass eg: good/bad/indifferent.

andy_g

FWVT wrote: »

If PPRuNe closed the thread because "BA/IAA are investigating it..." then they should also close all other threads about topics into which there are investigations, such as the Air Asia tread. It smacks of pure censorship and hypocracy. I wonder if it had been, say a Korean Airlines pilot at JFK, would they take the same stance?

As of yet we have had no contact from BA or the IAA as such its still open for discussion.

smurfjed

Pprune changed when they were purchased with Internet Brands, before that Danny and Robin would tell complainers to take a flying leap, but now with US based litigation, Internet Brands will shut topics down rapidly.

If the excuse that the IAA/BA are now investigating this event, then that would mean that EVERY topic involving incident/accidents should be shut down.

basill

Wondering out loud.....given that its the Professional Pilots Rumour network and IF a BA pilot was for arguments sake potentially in the firing line then any number of groups could have asked PPRUNE to close or pull the thread eg: BALPA, BA or legal advisors.

Another thing to bear in mind is some airlines are increasingly being run by their PR departments. There are very clear and explicit procedures to follow when any incident or accident occurs. Increasingly it seems you only have to f*rt these days and some pax or other "interested observer" in the know can find the right email/phone number to a head office and a management pilot will be onto you seeking information to clarify a complete non event.

Fratton Fred

geneva geneva4444 wrote: »

The answer is yes of course he would have. He was fully aware of what he was doing and his surroundings. He would have known there was nothing on finals as the ATCO was talking about getting other departures out behind him, and he'd have heard an arrival on frequency. Most comments here have (rightly) hit out at the pilot for his arrogance and refusal to comply with an ATC instruction. Nobody has pointed out however that in the end, he was actually quite clever. He knew exactly how far to push the boat out. It was blatant stalling tactics with the phone call stuff, clearly nonsense (and everyone listening obviously knew that) but it bought him the few seconds he needed. And he delivered the perfect "so what now Madam" line at the end, turning the tables and putting her on the spot. We may not have liked it, but they chanced their arm and got away with it.... in so far as they got away in their original sequence. He may hear about it at the other end though.

The pilot was of course out of line in this case, but he recognised that the ATC instruction was not a safety critical instruction (not that it should matter), therefore he chanced his arm. If one was a twenty second checklist away from being ready, would one not try the same?....

Just throwing a new angle on it to mix things up

It sounds like one of those situations where if you're a passenger on the BA flight, you're glad he did it and avoided going to the back of the queue, but very annoying for the flights behind him.

FWVT

cml387 wrote: »

PPRUNE are now hypersensitive to any problems since they were dragged through the courts by Ryanair. I guess any threads that would prove contentious will be closed down for fear of any legals.

Fine, so why don't they just state that as their reason instead of making up waffle about BA/IAA, notamed runways and other forums doing the same.

lord lucan

FWVT wrote: »

Fine, so why don't they just state that as their reason instead of making up waffle about BA/IAA, notamed runways and other forums doing the same.

If they stated that the threat of legal action was a reason they'd run the risk of an exodus of posters fearing discussion of many other topics would be pointless and the forum would die.

Irish Steve

lord lucan wrote: »

If they stated that the threat of legal action was a reason they'd run the risk of an exodus of posters fearing discussion of many other topics would be pointless and the forum would die.

In many respects, it already has died, as the regular intervention of some of their more precious moderators has made posting on some subjects a pointless exercise, as they don't recognise that there can be other opinions or experiences outside of theirs.

Cessna_Pilot

This has finally hit the Irish media. The Independent running with it today.

billie1b

The Indo link, now reporting on it

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/audio-standoff-between-irish-air-traffic-controller-and-pilot-30894868.html

fr336

In a statement, British Airways have said: “This is an edited segment of a conversation. Our flight crew have great respect for the professionalism of air traffic controllers and the work that they do. Safety is always our top priority.”

A Dub in Glasgo

Yeah because the couple of minutes of radio silence really adds to it

Peregrine

The fact that it was edited to cut out all the time wasted isn't exactly better..

Calina

Nim wrote: »

The fact that it was edited to cut out all the time wasted isn't exactly better..

Nope. But one of the things which interests me with respect to media these days is which truths get stuck in people's minds and which do not.

It's not just linked to something like this ie, a detail being missing. It's an ongoing issue with health related science news, also with nutrition and vaccines.

It's not a question of cold hard facts, it a question of narrative, and controlling the narrative. A lot of people will believe stuff because it comes from a trusted source even if it's wrong.

I'm sure there is sociology and pschology research into this but ultimately, the fact is BA can accept that the feed is edited; but they can also control what people think about that by how their acceptance of that gets reported.

You can see it in the narrative about people who work in unionised places of employment (a few airlines strike me) and the fact that there are people who have convinced themselves that some airlines have NEVER made a profit and is ALWAYS costing money.

Terry Pratchett talks a lot about narrativium in some of his Discworld books. It's a valid reflection on how people consume news these days.

BollickyBill

When an aircraft arrives at the holding point of a runway for departure, the crew should ensure that the they are ready for departure. The Tower controller was correct to point out to the pilot that if they knew they were not going to be ready to depart then they should have informed the Ground Movements controller who might have been able to let another aircraft that WAS ready, to go ahead of him. I would like to see them arrive at the holding point in Heathrow with twenty other aircraft behind them and tell the Tower controller there that they weren't ready for departure. I know Dublin is not as busy as Heathrow but at certain times it is as busy as it is able to be and there is no room for delays.