free gp care for under 6's

tom_tarbucket

hi

I have heard a lot of talk about free gp case for under 6's.

now that it's 2015, what is the latest on this - is it going to happen or not ?

cyning

Government are in talks with GPs over it. Doubt it's going to happen anytime soon tbh

tom_tarbucket

cyning wrote: »

Government are in talks with GPs over it. Doubt it's going to happen anytime soon tbh

thanks. yeah, could be a while getting it all through.........If at all.

seventeen sheep

It's a f*cking unfunny joke that it was suggested/promised when it's obviously not going to happen any time soon.

Gatling

seventeen sheep wrote: »

It's a f*cking unfunny joke that it was suggested/promised when it's obviously not going to happen any time soon.

It was a token gesture to settle the masses with 50+% of the population currently on medical cards I can't see a great rush to bring this is

Uncle Ben

They should go back to the drawing board with this. I know the wife of a barrister, €150k pa, and she says that she will qualify for 3 medical cards as she has 3 kids under 6 even though they have state of the art private health insurance .
If ever means testing was required it is for this.

cyning

Uncle Ben wrote: »

They should go back to the drawing board with this. I know the wife of a barrister, €150k pa, and she says that she will qualify for 3 medical cards as she has 3 kids under 6 even though they have state of the art private health insurance .
If ever means testing was required it is for this.

I've said it before on similar threads like this: I have a 9 month old now. She's not sick as such, she just gets sick a lot. And by a lot she's had 6 hospital admissions, and the amount of GP visits would be probably around 25 at this stage. We qualified for a GP visit card just. We will probably lose it this year over €5 per week. No matter what sort of health insurance you have that sort of money is beyond most people. We have health insurance and it's very high for our kids. But we cannot afford to pay €45 every time they need to see the doctor.

We need free GP care for our kids. No one should ever be in a situation where they can't bring their child to the GP because they can't afford it.

They take mortgage and childcare into account so if she's qualifying they don't have as much money as you think they do.

Uncle Ben

cyning wrote: »

I've said it before on similar threads like this: I have a 9 month old now. She's not sick as such, she just gets sick a lot. And by a lot she's had 6 hospital admissions, and the amount of GP visits would be probably around 25 at this stage. We qualified for a GP visit card just. We will probably lose it this year over €5 per week. No matter what sort of health insurance you have that sort of money is beyond most people. We have health insurance and it's very high for our kids. But we cannot afford to pay €45 every time they need to see the doctor.

We need free GP care for our kids. No one should ever be in a situation where they can't bring their child to the GP because they can't afford it.

They take mortgage and childcare into account so if she's qualifying they don't have as much money as you think they do.

Is it true that with this new GP scheme there is no means testing. If so then in my opinion this scheme is wrong and should be explored in greater detail. Just as it is unfair for you to be possibly denied because you are maybe €5 over I feel it is also unfair for a very sick child to be denied because he/she is 7! Medical cards should be issued on medical grounds

pwurple

Means testing can be quite expensive. You have to train all the people to do it... Set up forms and interviews and assign people full time to mange it. Run offices all over the country. If the means testing is just to exclude 10% of the population from the scheme, then it can be cheaper to give it to everyone.

I know people in the UK and Canada who are appalled that I pay to see a gp at all.

That said, the GP's were getting screwed on the initial proposal. I can see this coming in maybe by the time my children have children!

Uncle Ben

pwurple wrote: »

Means testing can be quite expensive. You have to train all the people to do it... Set up forms and interviews and assign people full time to mange it. Run offices all over the country. If the means testing is just to exclude 10% of the population from the scheme, then it can be cheaper to give it to everyone.

I know people in the UK and Canada who are appalled that I pay to see a gp at all.

That said, the GP's were getting screwed on the initial proposal. I can see this coming in maybe by the time my children have children!

My argument per se is not the issue of means testing in its entirety, it's the fact that in my opinion to garner kudos a govt picked an age group and said all of these will have free gp care irrespective of means or needs .My argument is what happens if a needy child is outside the catchment date even by 1 day. They won't qualify. If a govt cannot provide for the most Ill in all of society they certainly shouldn't be providing for Bono's or Dinny O Briens merely because they meet an age criteria. I personally have no axe to grind as all my kids have grown up and I'm not connected to medical profession however there will be plenty of kids and young teens who should qualify but won't.

pwurple

I didn't think it was an either/or scenario proposed. The seriously ill children that I know all have medical cards regardless of their age. I don't think the GP system was intended to replace that (especially as it would go nowhere near it, they already spend nearly half their lives in hospital).

It was an attempt at starting universal healthcare AFAIK. Start with some group, see how it goes, with potential to expand it.

Rosy Posy

pwurple wrote: »

I know people in the UK and Canada who are appalled that I pay to see a gp at all.

This. I'm adding this to the 'cons' column of ever moving home.

Sligo1

Rosy Posy wrote: »

This. I'm adding this to the 'cons' column of ever moving home.

I would stay where ye are! The only reason we have moved back from NZ is family. Waaaay better quality of life over there. The craic and atmosphere is better over here tho.... But thats about it. Lol.

pwurple

Now in fairness... There is a public HSE doctor, clinic and public health nurses available to me, practically on my doorstep, should we be stuck. My PHN called out to my house to do the last checkup for the baby as I had sprained my ankle and couldn't walk over there. It is some shape of service, certainly better than some of the places I have lived, including the US, where you are practically asked for payment up front before they look at you.

And, my husbands job provides health insurance which reimburses half the cost of the GP.

It's not the worst, but plenty of room for improvement.

efb

Try getting same day GP appointment when this comes in. It's imposs in the UK

implausible

efb wrote: »

Try getting same day GP appointment when this comes in. It's imposs in the UK

This is one of the things that worries me. The other being that there are far more serious and urgent things that need to be done with the healthcare system before they bring in a medical card for u-6s.

What gets my goat is why it has to be all or nothing - either you pay the full €40 (for a child visit) or you pay nothing. I believe that what you get for free is often not valued. Why not charge a nominal fee, like they do for prescriptions, with a cap on it i.e. if you have to visit more than twice a month or with a few children? Have another fee for the likes of me (decent dual income) and the full charge for those who are wealthier?

pwurple

implausible wrote: »

Have another fee for the likes of me (decent dual income) and the full charge for those who are wealthier?

This is means testing, and it constantly fails. It pisses people off when they are 2 euro outside the limit, creates poverty traps where people feel they should stop working or improving to retain benefits, ends up getting so complex it becomes unworkable, and adds an extortionate admin cost.

It is also one of concepts that I consider unfair/unethical in general. If services are being provided by everyone's taxes, preventing access to the people who pay most seems unjust.

lazygal

Rosy Posy wrote: »

This. I'm adding this to the 'cons' column of ever moving home.

Really? How often do you attend a gp where you live? Outside of vaccines I've only had one of my children at a gp in the past 2.5 years, as a nervous first time parent. Myself and himself can count on one hand the number of times we've been there in the past three years. We've excellent vhi cover through his work but only ever used it for maternity care.
My gp has said outside of his office that people don't appreciate free care and the medical card system is full of interference from tds etc. His practice is 50-50 private and cards. But even if he didn't go into the system I'd stay with him for continuity of care etc.

Rosy Posy

lazygal wrote: »

Really? How often do you attend a gp where you live? Outside of vaccines I've only had one of my children at a gp in the past 2.5 years, as a nervous first time parent. Myself and himself can count on one hand the number of times we've been there in the past three years. We've excellent vhi cover through his work but only ever used it for maternity care.
My gp has said outside of his office that people don't appreciate free care and the medical card system is full of interference from tds etc. His practice is 50-50 private and cards. But even if he didn't go into the system I'd stay with him for continuity of care etc.

Tbh I never ever go to the GP. It just seems to me that kids healthcare and dental should be free to give all kids the best possible start. You don't want people not bringing their kids in because of financial issues, or clogging up the emergency room cause they'll get seen there for free. I haven't had kids in Ireland and this thread is the first I'd heard that there was a charge for kids' GP visits, and like the friends of that other poster, I was surprised.

The way they work means testing here (for adults' GP visits) is that a portion of the fee is covered by the patient and a portion is covered by the government. They work out the proportion of each according to the mean socio-economic status of the suburb in which the practice is located. It's not perfect but it's easier than trying to test on a case by case basis.

So we live semi rurally and there is no practice near us so I registered to the practice closest to the kids' school, which happens to be in a lower decile area to the closest practice to where we live. I only found this out after I registered I just avoided the local guy because I think he's a bit of a tool...

lazygal

That's why I don't think people like us who can afford the fees should be given freebies when people who need free care struggle. I'd rather money be spent on areas of need rather than populist policies of universal care. We don't spend a lot on gp care as it is so free visits won't save us a whole lot.

pwurple

lazygal wrote: »

That's why I don't think people like us who can afford the fees should be given freebies when people who need free care struggle. I'd rather money be spent on areas of need rather than populist policies of universal care. We don't spend a lot on gp care as it is so free visits won't save us a whole lot.

The "areas of need" with means testing end up being 26 more HSE admin offices though, rather than anything frontline.

GP services are already available through the HSE clinic system, and the medical card system. If they want to water down the "free" GP care to be means tested, they might as well not implement it. I personally don't think it's needed with the other range of services available, but then, my children are in good health. I know people in the squeezed middle income group, who qualify for nothing, but are crippled by costs if there is one sick child in the family.

galah

I think a lower rate for kids would be nice, if we cant get free care. We're part of the squeezed middle, and our kids while usually healthy, had a bad run of it lately. In the past 6 weeks we had 5 trips to the gp, for various infections - that's a fun 300 quid gone in doctor's fees, just like that. (They charge 60 quid here...). And i'm not an overanxious parent who drags her kids to the doc at the slightest sniffle by all means.

Money that's now missing elsewhere. We won't starve, but it still hurts. Health insurance isnt covering it as the premiums were getting prohibitive, so we cut out day to day cover. but even if you go through the public system with the kids, if you need a hospital stay, you will get stung by a 75 quid a day fee if you dont have a medical card. Now that was a very unpleasant surprise as well.

Anyhoo...I'd hate to think people would have to think twice to bring their kids to a doctors because they may not be able to afford it - this may also cause a lot of long term issues if problems remain undiagnosed or untreated. And it is the people in the middle who are affected, not poor enough for free care but not rich enough not to worry about it.

draiochtanois

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draiochtanois

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FactCheck

There's something fairly galling all right that the very people who are paying through the nose to support the system are entitled to nothing from it.

cyning

draiochtanois wrote: »

I would look into agreeing an annual fee with your doctor to cover all necessary visits & secondly maybe look into changing doctors.

Why would I change doctors?

pwurple

cyning wrote: »

Why would I change doctors?

They probably mean the new thing some doctors are doing where you pay a flat fee for the year. If your own doctor didn't do it you could change.

But with your history cyning, I'd stay put. That's some medical history to be transferring to a new unknown doctor. Good GP's can be very hard to find, some are pure useless, just phoning it in.

cyning

A good GP is worth their weight in gold I can't understand how changing would be beneficial for anyone: plus living in a small town means while I could change I don't have a massive choice and he's really good.

draiochtanois

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cyning

draiochtanois wrote: »

If I and or my family was constantly sick I would change doctors.

Unless you have been in that situation you actually have no clue. None at all. Even if you have you are not in my situation. My daughter is being more than carefully minded by both her GP and paediatrician.

lazygal

draiochtanois wrote: »

If I and or my family was constantly sick I would change doctors.

That's a ridiculous thing to say. Continuity of care is important with on going illnesses. Unless I was unhappy with the care or disagreed with a course of treatment I would stay with a doctor who knew my history.