Ireland's Most Under Appreciated Sporting Achievement

Bridge93

Rabbo wrote: »

What happened those players since? Why didn't they go on and win trophies for the seniors?

Because that's unbelieveably hard to do. Winning an underage Europeans in one random year does not automatically mean success at senior level.

Alba Frere

Any achievement in GAA is not underappreciated ffs. Total opposite.

dirtyden

Every single sporting achievement mentioned so far has received a lot of appreciation. The example in the OP is ridiculous, and someone saying Padraig Harrington's majors were under appreciated (perhaps only if you lived in a cave in Afghanistan when they happened). Someone mentioned the Kilkenny hurlers being underrated and specifically Cody and Shefflin when they are almost universally acclaimed as 2 of the games all time greats.

There are very little sporting achievements that pass under the radar here. The country is too small and sport plays too large a part in irish life for any significant achievement not to be recognised. Nothing mentioned on this thread will have gone un-noticed by anyone with even a marginal interest in sport.

Alba Frere

dirtyden wrote: »

Every single sporting achievement mentioned so far has received a lot of appreciation. The example in the OP is ridiculous, and someone saying Padraig Harrington's majors were under appreciated (perhaps only if you lived in a cave in Afghanistan when they happened). Someone mentioned the Kilkenny hurlers being underrated and specifically Cody and Shefflin when they are almost universally acclaimed as 2 of the games all time greats.

There are very little sporting achievements that pass under the radar here. The country is too small and sport plays too large a part in irish life for any significant achievement not to be recognised. Nothing mentioned on this thread will have gone un-noticed by anyone with even a marginal interest in sport.

That would be all well and good if we were discussing unnoticed sporting achievements but we're not, we are discussing underappreciated ones.

diusmr8a504cvk

Donnielighto wrote: »

Her accent goes through me, not her fault really.

I dont like overly religious people.

There is that really sexist ad she did.

She sounds so out of breath all the time which just breaks my balls.

Bridge93

I think the cricketers have gone under the radar a bit. Not in the sense of people not being aware their results happened but just that those who don't follow it would not be fully aware of the scale of the results which is totally natural in a minority sport.

As was said its difficult in a small country for something to slip through. I would maybe think of Annalise Murphy at the last Olympics. Coming 4th was a huge achievement but was dampened and not fully appreciated due to the fact she probably should have got a medal from where she was going into the last few races. But 4th was still a big achievement.

Terrontress

deadybai wrote: »

Kilkennys dominance in hurling is greatly under appreciated. Probably because everyone is sick of them winning. To win 10 All Irelands as a player and 10 as a manager is an absolutely phenomenal achievement.

Other then that I would say Robbie Keanes goal scoring record. Nearly feel bad for him how little recognition that he gets.

How many decent sides has he been in a winning team against in a competitive match? Big European sides like Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Russia?

It is my belief that Robbie will put away five against Andorra, adding to his tally, but I'm not aware of his goal scoring ever having mattered.

Hulk Hands

A good portion of the country wouldnt appreciate how successful we are in the horseracing sphere. From trainers to jockeys to breeding, Ireland is pivitol to the flat racing game and is pretty much running the national hunt game at the moment. It's hard to pin down a specific underrated achievement though. Ruby Walsh would be quite underrated as a sportsman. Ask a randomer in the street who is the best jockey and you might get back Tony McCoy or Frankie Dettori due to British media hype. Ruby's been far and away the greatest in his sphere for over a decade

Hulk Hands

Terrontress wrote: »

How many decent sides has he been in a winning team against in a competitive match? Big European sides like Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Russia?

It is my belief that Robbie will put away five against Andorra, adding to his tally, but I'm not aware of his goal scoring ever having mattered.

Is this a trolling post or are you being serious?

Mars Bar

dirtyden wrote: »

Every single sporting achievement mentioned so far has received a lot of appreciation. nts that pass under the radar here.

I don't think the one I mentioned received enough appreciation.

Terrontress

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Is this a trolling post or are you being serious?

Answer the question then. For his goals scored, beyond completing a tally sheet, when has he been in a side which has won a match of note?

dirtyden

Mars Bar wrote: »

I don't think the one I mentioned received enough appreciation.

Fair point. I had heard of that at time but it probably did not get much airplay.

Bridge93

Terrontress wrote: »

How many decent sides has he been in a winning team against in a competitive match? Big European sides like Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Russia?

It is my belief that Robbie will put away five against Andorra, adding to his tally, but I'm not aware of his goal scoring ever having mattered.

5th June 2002. Ireland 1-1 Germany.

Also the last minute penalty agsinst Spain in the last 16.
Away in France in the WC playoff when Henry handballed.
Away in the Netherlands in the WC 2002 qualifiers in a very important draw.
Iran in the 2002 playoffs
In a draw away in Italy during a qualifying campaign
Qualifiers against Russia, Czech Republic, Turkey. All higher seeds in the groups.
Away in Estonia twice in the Euro 2012 playoffs

He has scored against some more big teams but only in friendly games which I'm sure don't count to you. We don't play a huge amount of competitive games against top sides so his strike rate is impressive.
So yeah, he has done it in important games against big teams. One players goals cant always stop a team losing a game so your comment about his goals mattering is irrelevant.

Terrontress

Bridge93 wrote: »

5th June 2002. Ireland 1-1 Germany.

Also the last minute penalty agsinst Spain in the last 16.
Away in France in the WC playoff when Henry handballed.
Away in the Netherlands in the WC 2002 qualifiers in a very important draw.
Iran in the 2002 playoffs
In a draw away in Italy during a qualifying campaign
Qualifiers against Russia, Czech Republic, Turkey. All higher seeds in the groups.
Away in Estonia twice in the Euro 2012 playoffs

So yeah, he has done it in important games against big teams.

Some matches in 2002, 12 years ago, a penalty, some draws and a couple of goals against Estonia?

He isn't under appreciated at all. He gets the recognition he deserves.

A more cerebral player who can score against big teams and isn't concerned about maintaining stone record against the likes of Saudi Arabia, while creaking under the pressure of Switzerland, would have fine do much more for Ireland.

Hulk Hands

Terrontress wrote: »

How many decent sides has he been in a winning team against in a competitive match? Big European sides like Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Russia?

It is my belief that Robbie will put away five against Andorra, adding to his tally, but I'm not aware of his goal scoring ever having mattered.

Yugoslavia in 99, Holland and Iran to get us to the WC, Germany and Spain in the WC, Italy in Bari, France in Paris. Those are just the 'big' teams aswell, of whom Ireland wouldnt play all that often, possibly twice during a campaign. Not even mentioning his club career. There's a lengthy Keane thread on the Soccer forum, why dont you bring your incredibly simplistic point of view across and argue it there

Bridge93

Terrontress wrote: »

Some matches in 2002, 12 years ago, a penalty, some draws and a couple of goals against Estonia?

He isn't under appreciated at all. He gets the recognition he deserves.

A more cerebral player who can score against big teams and isn't concerned about maintaining stone record against the likes of Saudi Arabia, while creaking under the pressure of Switzerland, would have fine do much more for Ireland.

So Robbie Keane's goals are meant to beat teams by themselves. He scored away in France in the playoff, what more do you want from him? To save the French goal himself too? Football is an 11 man game just because we don't win doesn't mean his record means less. He scored goals against teams of all abilities, the results don't change that.
I suppose Shane Williams tries for Wales mean less because he spent half his time in a crap Welsh side? What about Shearers goals at Newcastle?

bur

Seamus winning the WWE HW championship.

Terrontress

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Yugoslavia in 99, Holland and Iran to get us to the WC, Germany and Spain in the WC, Italy in Bari, France in Paris. Those are just the 'big' teams aswell, of whom Ireland wouldnt play all nl
. often, possibly twice during a campaign. Not even mentioning his club career. There's a lengthy Keane thread on the Soccer forum, why dont you bring your incredibly simplistic point of view across and argue it there

If you need to go back to 1999 to prove your point then you're on to a losing battle already.

I'm not saying he hasn't achieved anything, but he is overly lauded in my opinion and his record papers over the cracks of a mediocre international career.

Bridge93

bur wrote: »

Seamus winning the WWE HW championship.

Probably one of our most under appreciated acting performances I'll give you that.

Alba Frere

Quidditch World Cup?

Terrontress

Bridge93 wrote: »

So Robbie Keane's goals are meant to beat teams by themselves. He scored away in France in the playoff, what more do you want from him? To save the French goal himself too? Football is an 11 man game just because we don't win doesn't mean his record means less. He scored goals against teams of all abilities, the results don't change that.
I suppose Shane Williams tries for Wales mean less because he spent half his time in a crap Welsh side? What about Shearers goals at Newcastle?

He has had the service.

He has played with some outstanding goalkeepers, defenders, midfielders. World class. He has not performed to the same level as, for example, Shay Given, Roy Keane or Damien Duff at their peak. And that's just three off the top of my head.

What more do I want from him? 15 year career? More than one goal in an ultimately fruitless match.

Bridge93

Terrontress wrote: »

If you need to go back to 1999 to prove your point then you're on to a losing battle already.

I'm not saying he hasn't achieved anything, but he is overly lauded in my opinion and his record papers over the cracks of a mediocre international career.

Incredibly ignorant. The guy is the 13th highest international scorer of all time. That while playing in an average team his whole career. Some of those ahead of him are from Trinidad and Thailand etc who play dross ever international game.

How someone with 65 international goals can have a mediocre career is beyond me. What would you consider a successful one for him? 100 goals? Hat tricks against Italy, France and Germany home and away to single handidly qualify us?

errlloyd

Eddie O Sullivans time as the Irish Rugby coach gets serious stick. He left in disgrace after the 07-08 season. But the team did learn a lot from him and rugby. I'm not saying he was a great coach, just he gets more criticism than he perhaps deserves.

Terrontress

Bridge93 wrote: »

Incredibly ignorant. The guy is the 13th highest international scorer of all time. That while playing in an average team his whole career. Some of those ahead of him are from Trinidad and Thailand etc who play dross ever international game.

How someone with 65 international goals can have a mediocre career is beyond me. What would you consider a successful one for him? 100 goals? Hat tricks against Italy, France and Germany home and away to single handidly qualify us?

Remove friendlies, penalties and sides ranked less than 50 places beneath and you'd be left with about 10 goals. And how many of those won games?

I'm not aware of a hat trick against Germany home or away. I did see he got one against Gibraltar.

AndonHandon

Terrontress wrote: »

How many decent sides has he been in a winning team against in a competitive match? Big European sides like Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Russia?

It is my belief that Robbie will put away five against Andorra, adding to his tally, but I'm not aware of his goal scoring ever having mattered.

This was proven wrong by a poster who pointed out goals in major tournaments and qualification games (bear in mind we rarely even qualify for these major tournaments) which lead to draws so you have now shifted the goalposts when in fact you just have a grudge against Keane.

Bridge93

So much nonsense
Some goals don't count as they were too long ago
Some don't count as the opposition weren't deemed good enough
Some don't count because the games were only friendly matches
Some don't count because the team didn't win
Of course there's only about 10 goals left, seen as your criteria only fit about 25 international games. thankfully it's the view of a serious minority.

Terrontress

Bridge93 wrote: »

So much nonsense
Some goals don't count as they were too long ago
Some don't count as the opposition weren't deemed good enough
Some don't count because the games were only friendly matches
Some don't count because the team didn't win
Of course there's only about 10 goals left, seen as your criteria only fit about 25 international games. thankfully it's the view of a serious minority.

Surely you can see the difference in a goal scored against Gibraltar as one against Germany?

Or one in a friendly, where an opposition manager is trying new blood out, compared with one where both teams are fighting for qualification or progression.

You surely have to concede that there is a difference.

Keane's job has been to score goals and, while he has done it, he hasn't done it when it has mattered.

Billy86

Terrontress wrote: »

How many decent sides has he been in a winning team against in a competitive match? Big European sides like Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Russia?

It is my belief that Robbie will put away five against Andorra, adding to his tally, but I'm not aware of his goal scoring ever having mattered.

What is your opinion on the international careers of Andriy Shevchenko, Samuel Eto'o and Didier Drogba?

Terrontress wrote: »

He has had the service.

He has played with some outstanding goalkeepers, defenders, midfielders. World class. He has not performed to the same level as, for example, Shay Given, Roy Keane or Damien Duff at their peak. And that's just three off the top of my head.

What more do I want from him? 15 year career? More than one goal in an ultimately fruitless match.

What "world class" defenders has he played with? In goals Given was for Ireland, Roy Keane definitely was, and Duff was very good but not world class outside of about a two year spell. So who are you referring to? Gary Doherty? Gary Breen? Stephen Kelly? Glenn Whelan? Zinedine Skilbane? Stephen Hunt? Paul McShane? Jonathon "on the wing" Walters? Sean St. Ledger? Dean Kiely? Lee Carsley? Graeme Kavanagh? Who are these 'world class' players you are referring to?

How come you aren't trying to write off Roy Keane, Duff and Given by the way, since you are setting wins as the benchmark? Seem just a little like you've got an agenda here.

Terrontress

I'm just saying that his achievements are not under appreciated, as per the thread title.

I'd say Richie Dunne's goal record is under appreciated. Robbie Keane? Too much is made of it.

Witchie

Veterans/Masters Athletes. I know loads (including my dad) who have won so many World and European medals and yet it doesn't even make column inches in the national papers.