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Do you think alcoholism, drug abuse is just downright selfish?

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  • 01-01-2015 10:40pm
    #1
    rosedream
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭


    This may seem harsh when I never had to be in that position. People do say that alcoholism is a disease and that people might have had some horrible demons to turn to illegal activity like drugs.

    But at what point do you think that the person is just a selfish person, even when you give them all the help in the world?
    It's just that I really don't understand how they cannot get through their heads how much the habit affects everyone in the family, and then the family are considered the horrid ones for just eventually cutting that person out. I mean I do think there is only so much you can do for a person and their issues, but if they are not willing to meet you halfway, then what's the point of putting up with that pain?

    It's just that I get that people have their demons, but at the same time, no one should have to handle that type of behaviour if the addict cannot see how much it affects everyone.

    Edit: I have an alcoholic relative, so I have heard the stories and seen the effects it has on other our family members, including myself. At this stage after all these years, if they want to drink themselves to death, fine by me, but I just don't want to know about it anymore. Harsh, but in fairness, they had received the best of the best medical treatment 3 times, which some alkies couldn't afford, only to fcuk it up each time after they finished treatment.


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    #2
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    People who suffer from addiction are very, very selfish! Just like people with diabetes and heart disease.


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    #3
    Sheep Lover
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭Sheep Lover


    Course it's not, I always give the kids the dregs of me cans. How's that selfish?


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    #4
    rosedream
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭rosedream


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    People who suffer from addiction are very, very selfish! Just like people with diabetes and heart disease.


    In fairness that is completely different, in terms of how they affect other people. I mean a diabetic injecting themselves with insulin is not in the same league as someone who steals money from their family to keep shooting heroin.


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    #5
    milltown
    Registered Users Posts: 4,613 ✭✭✭milltown


    Any addicts or alcoholics I have met know exactly how destructive it is and bear no ill will against the friends and family who ran out of patience with them. They know exactly what they should and shouldn't be doing but they literally can't help themselves. It's like an inbuilt self destruct instinct.

    I struggle with the "disease" definition a bit too, but the problem is a lot deeper than selfishness.


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    #6
    Highflyer13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Highflyer13


    As someone who has seen the effects of alcohol closely I would say yes it is selfish. The people I am talking about refuse to acknowledge or accept they have a problem despite warnings and interventions. They don't give a s**t about the destruction they caused.


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    #7
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    rosedream wrote: »
    In fairness that is completely different, in terms of how they affect other people. I mean a diabetic injecting themselves with insulin is not in the same league as someone who steals money from their family to keep shooting heroin.

    I was being facetious! No people with addiction issues are not selfish and they are not doing it intentionally to piss other people off. They are not able to control their addiction.


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    #8
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    Alcoholism, drug abuse, suicide, cutting, etc, are far, far too complex to be reduced down to 'selfishness'. The consequences for those around the person are often horrific and so it's 100% understandable why loved ones get frustrated, angry and sometimes lash out at the person but, no, you can't start a thread to finally decide if drug abusers, etc, are selfish in some objective sense.

    Maybe a thread asking if people have suffered at the hands of a substance abuser and how they dealt with that might be more sensitive and helpful for people.


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    #9
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    People who suffer from addiction are very, very selfish! Just like people with diabetes and heart disease.

    We continue to absolve ourselves from any responsibility for our actions. Everything is a condition, a disease these days. its a cop out.


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    #10
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    rosedream wrote: »
    In fairness that is completely different, in terms of how they affect other people. I mean a diabetic injecting themselves with insulin is not in the same league as someone who steals money from their family to keep shooting heroin.

    Both are suffering from a disease - the only difference is the State recognises diabetes as such and has treatment programmes / facilities in place.

    In a significant number of cases addicts are denied proper treatment for their disease (methadone is more about maintenance than treatment) and that leads to consequential problems for society.


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    #11
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,982 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Boskowski wrote: »
    We continue to absolve ourselves from any responsibility for our actions. Everything is a condition, a disease these days. its a cop out.

    Its not a cop out if they genuinely cant help themselves which many cant.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #12
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Boskowski wrote: »
    We continue to absolve ourselves from any responsibility for our actions. Everything is a condition, a disease these days. its a cop out.

    Tell that to my OCD, I know exactly what I'm doing yet can't stop it.


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    #13
    Henlars67
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    Depends on the addict's circumstances.

    If they have a family who are suffering as a result then ya, they are selfish.

    But if they're a single person living alone, then no, they aren't


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    #14
    Noobascious
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Noobascious


    I'm an alcohol but I'm not selfish I give money and stuff to the poor :-p

    I've never trusted the majority of my friends and anyway they always had other friends to hang out with. So alcohol is my only friend now. Happy out

    Family are always trying to construe my addiction as some sort major problem but they create the problems. Ie ran out of money don't get paid monthly - give us a loan of twenty euro for drink - duck off - q me going ape**** cos I'm already a bit drunk- they fuking well have the money and know the reaction they'll get from me. Recording me on their iPhones to show when I'm sober what an asshole I'd been. Niggas please


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    #15
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Noobascious wrote: »
    I'm an alcohol but I'm not selfish I give money and stuff to the poor :-p

    I've never trusted the majority of my friends and anyway they always had other friends to hang out with. So alcohol is my only friend now. Happy out

    Family are always trying to construe my addiction as some sort major problem but they create the problems. Ie ran out of money don't get paid monthly - give us a loan of twenty euro for drink - duck off - q me going ape**** cos I'm already a bit drunk- they fuking well have the money and know the reaction they'll get from me. Recording me on their iPhones to show when I'm sober what an asshole I'd been. Niggas please

    Thats the spirit dont let them drag you down


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    #16
    Todd Toddington III
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭Todd Toddington III


    Boskowski wrote: »
    We continue to absolve ourselves from any responsibility for our actions. Everything is a condition, a disease these days. its a cop out.

    Whats your opinion on depression then? Are they being selfish too with all their negative thoughts and being sad? Sure theyre probably making it up the selfish ba$taRds


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    #17
    yipeeeee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭yipeeeee


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Its not a cop out if they genuinely cant help themselves which many cant.

    Well you could apply that to paedophiles murderers rapists etc.

    It's not their fault, they can't help themselves.

    Where do we draw the line.


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    #18
    yipeeeee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭yipeeeee


    Todd Toddington III wrote: »
    Whats your opinion on depression then? Are they being selfish too with all their negative thoughts and being sad? Sure theyre probably making it up the selfish ba$taRds

    See above.


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    #19
    Galway K9
    Registered Users Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭Galway K9


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Thats the spirit dont let them drag you down

    Pun intended?


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    #20
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Noobascious wrote: »
    I'm an alcohol but I'm not selfish I give money and stuff to the poor :-p

    I've never trusted the majority of my friends and anyway they always had other friends to hang out with. So alcohol is my only friend now. Happy out

    Family are always trying to construe my addiction as some sort major problem but they create the problems. Ie ran out of money don't get paid monthly - give us a loan of twenty euro for drink - duck off - q me going ape**** cos I'm already a bit drunk- they fuking well have the money and know the reaction they'll get from me. Recording me on their iPhones to show when I'm sober what an asshole I'd been. Niggas please

    Thats the spirit dont let them drag you down


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    #21
    estudent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭estudent


    It's very dependent upon the person.

    Why does anyone consume drugs?

    A person can drink a bottle of Whisky in few hours while another person might take weeks or months. Same goes for any drug.

    You have to ask WHY the person is taking the drug in the first place.

    Don't look at the symptoms, look at the cause.


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    #22
    Macavity.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Macavity.


    I don't see how it's selfish if it does not affect anyone else, which in some cases it doesn't.


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    #23
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    yipeeeee wrote: »
    Well you could apply that to paedophiles murderers rapists etc.

    It's not their fault, they can't help themselves.

    Where do we draw the line.

    Indeed. It really brings up the whole "free will is an illusion" idea.

    Do humans actually have control over their own actions, or do they just think they do? It's not completely clear. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-free-will-an-illusion/


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    #24
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Boskowski wrote: »
    We continue to absolve ourselves from any responsibility for our actions. Everything is a condition, a disease these days. its a cop out.

    How is it absolving people of their responsibilities by saying it's a disease? Lots of diseases are caused and exacerbated by reckless and irresponsible behaviors.

    Look at the definitions of the word 'disease' and then ask yourself how alcoholism or other forms of addiction shouldn't be considered to be diseases.


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    #25
    Todd Toddington III
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭Todd Toddington III


    yipeeeee wrote: »
    See above.

    I dont understand what youre saying. As someone whos seen there partner being treated like a pariah by their family due to their unwillingness to deal with her depression, not even talk to her about it, I was attempting to point out to the op that he's full of $hit and doesnt know what he's talking about. Perhaps ill be more obvious next time. Whats your view on these "made up" illnesses then?


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    #26
    yipeeeee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭yipeeeee


    Diego Simeone wrote: »
    Indeed. It really brings up the whole "free will is an illusion" idea.

    Do humans actually have control over their own actions, or do they just think they do? It's not completely clear. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-free-will-an-illusion/

    I have started threads on this topic.

    It freaks people out so much it's best not to go there:)


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    #27
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    I used to try make excuses for alcoholics and say its a disease and they cant help themselves but Ive grown up and see no reason to have empathy for people who spend their entire lives destroying their own lives and the lives of people around them. Most people DONT do that because most people arent fcuking a$sholes. Dipsos aren't selfish, they're just serious fcuking a$sholes. end of.


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    #28
    Todd Toddington III
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭Todd Toddington III


    yipeeeee wrote: »
    See above.

    But the line has been drawn by society on these people, they get put away for there crimes. Should we starting locking up these addicts?

    Edit...maybe im being extreme here. A proper treatment programme would help, like with old style asylums, a family should be able to commit someone to get them clean. Never happen, not sexy enough for politicos


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    #29
    rosedream
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭rosedream


    Macavity. wrote: »
    I don't see how it's selfish if it does not affect anyone else, which in some cases it doesn't.

    What about partners, families, extended families, friends, and workmates? Heck, even the junkies and alkies who seem to roam the streets alone still affect others by pestering people for money and making them uncomfortable in case a mugging was about to happen.


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    #30
    yipeeeee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭yipeeeee


    Todd Toddington III wrote: »
    I dont understand what youre saying. As someone whos seen there partner being treated like a pariah by their family due to their unwillingness to deal with her depression, not even talk to her about it, I was attempting to point out to the op that he's full of $hit and doesnt know what he's talking about. Perhaps ill be more obvious next time. Whats your view on these "made up" illnesses then?

    No sorry you're taking me up wrong.

    Im saying people's state of mind can't be helped, i agree with you.

    Depression is a horrible illness, wouldn't wish it on anyone.


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    #31
    zanador
    Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭zanador


    yipeeeee wrote: »
    Well you could apply that to paedophiles murderers rapists etc.

    It's not their fault, they can't help themselves.

    Where do we draw the line.

    I think we draw the line at people's actions. So, if someone is a paedophile and born that way it's not a problem. If they act on their urges then it becomes a problem.


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