Why isn't alcohol considered a "gateway drug"?

padd b1975

the dark phantom wrote: »

Its the saying that you come to expect from ignorant uneducated people.

So you're now classed as uneducated unless you know everything and anything about drugs!!??

Jesus wept.

BetterThanThou

Shrap wrote: »

Totally with the OP here. The amount of times I've shouted at the tv or radio after yet another muppet has proclaimed cannabis to be the gateway drug, and I'm roaring "It's ALCOHOL, FFS!".



I agree somewhat with you here, except that nobody (and I know a lot of cannabis smokers - mostly ex ones now, but still....) and I mean nobody makes a conscious decision to try cannabis for the first time by going out to find a dealer. They are usually at a party and if they had any reservations about cannabis before they started drinking, those reservations dissolve in alcohol and they'll take a joint handed to them by someone who more than likely isn't a dealer themselves.

It's when you start liking it that you go searching for a dealer! But the alcohol was invariably the gateway drug, IMO.

Also though, it is true that because cannabis is illegal you definitely then come into contact with other stronger and more addictive/dangerous illegal drugs.

I don't personally agree with that, myself, and all my friends, made a conscious decision to try cannabis, hell, I tried the stuff before ever even getting drunk. I tried the stuff after months of consideration and looking up the facts, it definitely wasn't a spur of the moment thing.

Shrap

BetterThanThou wrote: »

I don't personally agree with that, myself, and all my friends, made a conscious decision to try cannabis, hell, I tried the stuff before ever even getting drunk. I tried the stuff after months of consideration and looking up the facts, it definitely wasn't a spur of the moment thing.

Oh, ok. I suppose you must be a good bit younger than me! When I was trying it for the first time there was nowhere to look up the facts! True enough, these days I've heard that young ones are definitely researching the effects and possible dangers of drugs a lot more than we did when young - which is great.

my teapot is orange

My understanding of "gateway drug" is one that tends to lead on to other, usually stronger drugs. Alcohol, however bad you might consider it to be, and maybe worse than other drugs, doesn't have a strong pattern of leading a person on to other substances particularly and therefore it is not a gateway drug. How bad alcohol is for you and whether it is worse than other things that are not legal is a totally separate debate.

giles lynchwood

ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY ie TAX. No government no matter who they are could run this country without the revenue collected from DRINK and that my friends is the short and the long of it.

Shrap

my teapot is orange wrote: »

My understanding of "gateway drug" is one that tends to lead on to other, usually stronger drugs. Alcohol, however bad you might consider it to be, and maybe worse than other drugs, doesn't have a strong pattern of leading a person on to other substances particularly and therefore it is not a gateway drug.

Hmm, personally speaking, alcohol led me on to the strongest drug of the lot - nicotine. :mad: Also legal of course.

I still consider alcohol to have certainly been my gateway drug to everything else, and it continues to be....every time I try and give up the nicotine. Desperate drug for lowering your inhibitions after even one drink.


(there's a lesson in there somewhere......ah yes - give up the drink )

Alf Veedersane

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

There are few things more ridiculous than those Ag. Science types who consider it socially acceptable to get so drunk that they'll piss the bed and get in a bottle fight over a place in the Supermacs queue, but would consider taking a banger to be the equivalent consuming the products you keep under your sink.

The faculty that evolution forgot.

Amirani

my teapot is orange wrote: »

My understanding of "gateway drug" is one that tends to lead on to other, usually stronger drugs. Alcohol, however bad you might consider it to be, and maybe worse than other drugs, doesn't have a strong pattern of leading a person on to other substances particularly and therefore it is not a gateway drug.

If you were to survey most class A drug addicts, you'd find that most would've drank alcohol before they started class A drugs. Most would've also smoked cannabis before they started class A drugs. Most would've also consumed caffeine etc...

Claiming that any of the above is a gateway drug because of this is just post hoc ergo propter hoc. Unless you can show that there's some clear and direct causal link between consummation of "gateway drugs" and other drugs, you can't truthfully call them gateway drugs. I'm not aware of any such link at present, outside of the necessity of interacting with drug dealers for acquiring certain drugs.

my teapot is orange

Shrap wrote: »

Hmm, personally speaking, alcohol led me on to the strongest drug of the lot - nicotine. :mad: Also legal of course.

I still consider alcohol to have certainly been my gateway drug to everything else, and it continues to be....every time I try and give up the nicotine. Desperate drug for lowering your inhibitions after even one drink.


(there's a lesson in there somewhere......ah yes - give up the drink )

I think there are lots of people who like something or other that isn't very good for them and do it more when they are drunk, whether it's smoking, going for chips or just saying or doing things they'll regret, but I don't think there is a clear progression on to one or a number of more serious drugs so I don't think it's a gateway drug in the sense of other drugs where people don't get enough of a kick out of X anymore and need to move on to Y. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not a serious substance that causes a lot of harm in society when handled irresponsibly, I just think that's a different debate.

Noobascious

The only way to give up the nicotine is to back to the drug u took first- alcohol. I'm drinking all the time now but at least I'm not smoking.

my teapot is orange

Diego Simeone wrote: »

If you were to survey most class A drug addicts, you'd find that most would've drank alcohol before they started class A drugs. Most would've also smoked cannabis before they started class A drugs. Most would've also consumed caffeine etc...

Claiming that any of the above is a gateway drug because of this is just post hoc ergo propter hoc. Unless you can show that there's some clear and direct causal link between consummation of "gateway drugs" and other drugs, you can't truthfully call them gateway drugs. I'm not aware of any such link at present, outside of the necessity of interacting with drug dealers for acquiring certain drugs.

Most of the population have consumed alcohol and caffeine. You start your investigation with "what have hard drug-users done that occurs more frequently in their group, other than in the population at large?"

barney 20v

Not considered a gateway because the state makes FAR too much revenue from alcohol to risk doing so.

Amirani

my teapot is orange wrote: »

Most of the population have consumed alcohol and caffeine. You start your investigation with "what have hard drug-users done that occurs more frequently in their group, other than in the population at large?"

Agreed to an extent. "Occurs more frequently" isn't really sufficient as a definition, at what levels can you confidently say that it's having a definitive impact?

So yeah, there's probably a higher preponderance of cannabis use in hard drug users than the general population. Still, there's probably a higher preponderance of cannabis use in college students than the general population. It would be ludicrous to suggest that the cannabis use however is causing them to be college students. What threshold do you need in order to cite the results as statistically significant?

donegaLroad

dar100 wrote: »

Absolute lie

what makes you think its a lie m8?

Venus In Furs

padd b1975 wrote: »

So you're now classed as uneducated unless you know everything and anything about drugs!!??

Jesus wept.

But shur you know full well that's not what they said.

They said it's ignorant and uneducated to say cannabis is a gateway drug, that's all.
It is ignorant, and it is uneducated in relation to the topic, but does not mean the person is uneducated otherwise, to be fair.

Billy86

my teapot is orange wrote: »

Most of the population have consumed alcohol and caffeine. You start your investigation with "what have hard drug-users done that occurs more frequently in their group, other than in the population at large?"

Funny that, because having primarily worked in sales and finances I have come across a lot of people who love their nose candy down the years. Thing is, they tended to like a few drinks after work but mostly despised alcohol. Your logic, basically, is flawed - following it would mean that fluorescent clothing is a plausible gateway to ecstasy and MDMA.

The only way that cannabis stands out as a 'gateway' drug is because of how it is (or at least, until recently was) made out to be almost like some kind of dangerous, evil drug that would destroy your life and the lives of those around you by older generations. Lo and behold, some teenager goes and gets stoned a few times... and nothing changes. Mix that in with the sense of invincibility people that age has, and the realisation that they've either been lied to up to this point, or that the people 'warning' them have no clue what they are talking about, and they are far more likely to think that those same people were wrong about other drugs as well.

Basically the only reason that cannabis can be viewed as a gateway drug more than alcohol is it's false portrayal and status of being illegal (which puts users in contact with dealers that open the gates for other drugs - when I was 15/16 it was easier to get your hands on coke than it was booze unless you had a good fake ID). In case you are wondering by the way I would personally smoke about three joints a year, max.

Standman

I suppose you could say it's a gateway drug in that once you smoke it and realise that taking illegal drugs are not like "playing Russian Roulette" as so many of us are told growing up, you may be more likely to try something else as you start to think everything you've been told about them is complete bullshit.

Also if you know a dealer it's often way easier to get your hands on other stuff.

StormWarrior

Oh for he good old days when magic mushrooms were legal. Mushies are a gateway drug alright, a gateway to the universe.

the dark phantom

padd b1975 wrote: »

So you're now classed as uneducated unless you know everything and anything about drugs!!??

Jesus wept.

If you're going to have an opinion on something then you need to have knowledge of the issue, If you have no knowledge of the issues at hand then its fair to say you are uneducated about the subject.

I don't post about GAA or celebrities because I have absolutely no knowledge about those matters, I post about Cannabis because I smoke it myself and therefore have the experience to comment on it.

looking_around

donegaLroad wrote: »

I know several people who registered as heroin addicts in order to get methadone, so they could try and go off the drink, even though they never tried heroin.

I read the thread posts to see if anyone correct you, and only one person but they didn't say why.

to be registered an addict, you have to undergo blood tests, they have to have been on heroin. and the rigmarol to get a prescription given is quite strict. you don't just sign on like you would the.dole

The other fella

Henlars67 wrote: »

What makes cannabis a gateway drug, if it even is a gateway drug, is that by buying it you come in contact with a dealer. It's then much more likely that you will start taking other stuff.

If you could buy cannabis across the counter, then it's likely you'd never meet the dealer in the first place

Most people that i have heard of that sell cannabis sell only cannabis.Other drugs are more profitable to sell and those who sell them usually dont bother much with weed.

dr.fuzzenstein

The whole gateway drug argument is utter horsesh*t.
The argument being that most people on harder drugs all did softer drugs on the way up.
But correlation =/= causality, it's the biggest fallacy in human reasoning.
One could argue that nearly all rapists have penises. I have a penis, therefore I must be a rapist by that logic.
Or, taking the other approach, let's take this a step further. What was there before cannabis? I'm sure we can find cigarettes, beer, coffee, milk.
So, taking it back to it's logically inescapable conclusion, milk is the real gateway drug.
That means we have to jail everyone with a penis for being a potential rapist and everyone who ever had milk as a junkie.
Biggest load of hysterical "won't someone think of the children", hand-wringing bull**** from people who look for tenuous causality, instead of approaching an issue logically.
But of course the lazy, hackneyed hysterical approach is simply the easiest and makes the person making the argument feel like they're "doing something".
Yeah, great lad, here's a chocolate medal. beware, it is also a gateway drug, see you on smack next year.

Berserker

BetterThanThou wrote: »

My doctor's uncle was out in a bar having a piss up last night, he got friendly with a middle-aged man and was talking to him for a while, after a while passed, he went out into the smoking area with this man and took out a joint and lit it, he politely offered it to the man, and then, while this man is pissed drunk and barely even able to stand up, he starts telling him how cannabis is a "gateway drug" and it will lead to use of harder drugs like heroin. Personally, I don't understand this logic, as far as mind altering substances go, alcohol is a lot stronger than cannabis, for my doctor's uncle, he can smoke joint after joint and take bong rip after bong rip during a smoke-up and his level of intoxication would be nowhere near as much as after an average night out for him. I've never once heard alcohol referred to as a "gateway drug", yet it's the drug that everyone starts on, and of course is a lot more harmful than cannabis.

Why do people make up stories like this? Why can't they just say that they want to open a thread regarding cannabis and it's legalization?

Venus In Furs

Even if that story isn't true, it is a fair point. People talk about cannabis as being a gateway drug (which is nonsense) - why don't the same people talk about alcohol in the same terms, given the extreme mind-altering effect of heavy drinking.

Berserker

Venus In Furs wrote: »

Even if that story isn't true, it is a fair point. People talk about cannabis as being a gateway drug (which is nonsense) - why don't the same people talk about alcohol in the same terms, given the extreme mind-altering effect of heavy drinking.

Given the fact that it hinged on the actions of his 'doctor's uncle', I would strongly suspect that it is untrue. I am querying the need to include this nonsensical story. Is it not possible to back up the primary argument with hard evidence?

The other fella

Nobody ever smoked a joint after work and decided to go get a bag of e's.

Plenty of people go for a pint after work and end up staying out all weekend taking e's.

The majority of people who took hard drugs were drunk the first time they did so, not stoned.