Stylish springer spaniel

fiestaman

Well springer men, what do you see in a spaniel that make you say they have style or are a stylish dog?

rebok classic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvKZDaPmJOk

fiestaman

rebok classic wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvKZDaPmJOk

A trialling dog bouncing through cover?? A lot of springer men on here lately & 39 views on this thread and not one opinion yet.

Tikka391

fiestaman wrote: »

Well springer men, what do you see in a spaniel that make you say they have style or are a stylish dog?

That seems a fairly loaded question, what you getting at

rebok classic

what do you think it is fiestaman ,, a trial dog jumping through cover ,, she looks good hunting body is low head down great speed taking in good ground lovely flow and movement nice pattern not plodding around poking her head in here and there not a plank or a straight line merchant

Brianmeath

rebok classic wrote: »

what do you think it is fiestaman ,, a trial dog jumping through cover ,, she looks good hunting body is low head down great speed taking in good ground lovely flow and movement nice pattern not plodding around poking her head in here and there not a plank or a straight line merchant

This is the result of proper training!

rebok classic

compared to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kk_hWEkDo8

Tikka391

Might up set the purists here.
I don't do any trailing what so ever just hunting. After the family everything is hunting all year round and all that goes with that at different times of the year. So I take it fairly serious if you know what I mean. I have three springers now but I don't care if a dog is crossed more times than a ball in a soccer match if he hunts well can is a good retriever especially on runners I don't care what sort of dog it is and how pretty or ugly it is. I've had them all they hunt well for me and they are looked after like royalty.
Sorry rebok

Brianmeath

rebok classic wrote: »

compared to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kk_hWEkDo8

What you compering?

rebok classic

comparing to just your average rough shooting dog the little bitch displayed a lot more style

Stonehall9

Fellas gone mad on springers treads here lately but my dog is from a well taught of line but wouldn't be anyway near as stylish as his brothers and sisters or cousins for that matter but he never passes a bird , has never failed on a retrieve and he did about 41/2 hours hunting last day out, go to the kennels next mornin and he would be ready to do it all again. Couldn't ask for more than that .what more should they do???

tikkahunter

rebok classic wrote: »

compared to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kk_hWEkDo8

This is the way my dogs work , up on the ditch only go in when they need to ie .something there, no point having a dog ploughing at ditch out of it for no reason , The dog in the first video hunts well has a nice pattern but to keep that pace up is impossible , that dog would be ****ed before you had it out an hour, though saying that my cocker is very like that and can keep going all day.

Brianmeath

If you want a dog for rough shooting train it for rough shooting.
If you want a dog for field trials train it for field trails.
It was said on here earlier. Trials are set up. Plenty of game on the ground. I think lads are getting confused on here. The second video just posted is what we all encounter while rough shooting, we could walk for hours or days and meet nothing or get lucky. His dogs looked just fine to me for rough shooting, so what if you don't get the perfect delivery or a dog doesn't quarter walking along a straight ditch (which is probably why dogs won't go for more than a few hours) as long as they flush game within reach of the gun.

tikkahunter

Stonehall9 wrote: »

Fellas gone mad on springers treads here lately but my dog is from a well taught of line but wouldn't be anyway near as stylish as his brothers and sisters or cousins for that matter but he never passes a bird , has never failed on a retrieve and he did about 41/2 hours hunting last day out, go to the kennels next mornin and he would be ready to do it all again. Couldn't ask for more than that .what more should they do???

Noting more ,you just need the dog to do his /her job and your a happy man, a good indicator is you flush every bird you see than you are fairly confident you dont pass much , the best of dogs can pass a bird, some of the lads in our club the dog would nearly do hand stands in the field or would retrieve dummys all day long but they would be average enough, like when you do land they have just done unkown they have just done it a few hours before and you get birds off it.
Once your dog has good manners goes in when a bird is there and retrieves what you shoot then you dont need it to do anything else.

fiestaman

Wasn't getting at anything by asking the question, just a lot of lads I know are rating dogs by how stylish they were and was woundering what ye thought. As rebok posted the video that's what I thought was stylish too, low to the ground with pace and figure of 8's hunting pattern.

irish setter

If a dog has style it makes hard going ground look easy. That's how style is judged at trials

rebok classic

Tikka391 wrote: »

Might up set the purists here.
I don't do any trailing what so ever just hunting. After the family everything is hunting all year round and all that goes with that at different times of the year. So I take it fairly serious if you know what I mean. I have three springers now but I don't care if a dog is crossed more times than a ball in a soccer match if he hunts well can is a good retriever especially on runners I don't care what sort of dog it is and how pretty or ugly it is. I've had them all they hunt well for me and they are looked after like royalty.
Sorry rebok

fair play who cares once it gets the job done ,,why are you apologizing to me

dodderangler

What's it mean "a stylish springer"
Add on donedeal for springer. Very stylish?

rebok classic

very stylish

hathcock

dodderangler wrote: »

What's it mean "a stylish springer"
Add on donedeal for springer. Very stylish?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

tikkahunter

rebok classic wrote: »

very stylish

Hypster springer

Dawggone

fiestaman wrote: »

A trialling dog bouncing through cover?? A lot of springer men on here lately & 39 views on this thread and not one opinion yet.

What cover? I wouldn't call that cover. FFS!

Dawggone

rebok classic wrote: »

comparing to just your average rough shooting dog the little bitch displayed a lot more style

The dogs in the second vid actually have cover to hunt but prefer the open country.
I would not shoot over such shyte but the owner/handler is happy so away with him.
Style can be many different things to many different people but the basics are the basics.
I judge a dog on all the essentials..... drive, ability in cover, nose, mouth etc. and then style can be judged/ assessed.

Brianmeath

Dawggone wrote: »

The dogs in the second vid actually have cover to hunt but prefer the open country.
I would not shoot over such shyte but the owner/handler is happy so away with him.
Style can be many different things to many different people but the basics are the basics.
I judge a dog on all the essentials..... drive, ability in cover, nose, mouth etc. and then style can be judged/ assessed.

No point beating cover if there is nothing in it. Trust the dogs nose.

fiestaman

No dog will pick up a woodcock or pheasant sitting tight in deep cover with there nose, dog must go in regardless. If your dog is not going in you missing a lot of birds.

tikkahunter

fiestaman wrote: »

No dog will pick up a woodcock or pheasant sitting tight in deep cover with there nose, dog must go in regardless. If your dog is not going in you missing a lot of birds.

I wouldn't class that cover in the second video deep, the dogs should definitely wind anything in it by staying tight , his dogs are a little bit loose he could do with them tighter nipping in and out but there would be no need for them to go in at the start and not come out till the end would be just wasting energy

fiestaman

If a woodcock landed in there at 6am and never stirred or a cock came down from roost and picked in there and sat tight when he heard commotion a and scenting wasn't 100% then them dogs going down the outside wouldn't pick them up. Simple as that.

rebok classic

fiestaman wrote: »

If a woodcock landed in there at 6am and never stirred or a cock came down from roost and picked in there and sat tight when he heard commotion a and scenting wasn't 100% then them dogs going down the outside wouldn't pick them up. Simple as that.

thats why their dogs hunt from dawn til dusk because all they doin is running the outside of a hedge thats called walking your springer not hunting in bad weather when game is not moving about those dogs become ornamental and then its these same fellas saying my dog never passed a bird is there a brick wall around here anywhere

Dawggone

Brianmeath wrote: »

No point beating cover if there is nothing in it. Trust the dogs nose.

Sorry Brian but they are bred to do just that. Without hunting the cover how do you know there is nothing in it?

Trust the dogs nose....FFS!!

tikkahunter

fiestaman wrote: »

If a woodcock landed in there at 6am and never stirred or a cock came down from roost and picked in there and sat tight when he heard commotion a and scenting wasn't 100% then them dogs going down the outside wouldn't pick them up. Simple as that.

It's not as simple as that, you do train your dog's to use the wind don't you? It don't matter when a bird landed in any dog with a half decent nose will pick it up, that ditch is fairly light if your dog is trained right it and uses the wind itwill pick up a bird in that ditch no problem if it doesn't give it away as a pet

Dawggone

tikkahunter wrote: »

It's not as simple as that, you do train your dog's to use the wind don't you? It don't matter when a bird landed in any dog with a half decent nose will pick it up, that ditch is fairly light if your dog is trained right it and uses the wind itwill pick up a bird in that ditch no problem if it doesn't give it away as a pet

You are making the weakest excuses for the worst dogs.
If a dog is bred for a job why do people accept (and feed) a dog that doesn't do just that?
I never want to see a springer only hear it. If I want the dog out of cover I will call it out.


SPANIELS MUST HIT COVER.
Make all the usual excuses for the dogs that don't hit cover but they are not fit for purpose if they don't.
The real problem with spaniels is when you get one with good drive they lack stamina.

Brianmeath

Dawggone wrote: »

Sorry Brian but they are bred to do just that. Without hunting the cover how do you know there is nothing in it?

Trust the dogs nose....FFS!!

Your correct

fiestaman

tikkahunter wrote: »

It's not as simple as that, you do train your dog's to use the wind don't you? It don't matter when a bird landed in any dog with a half decent nose will pick it up, that ditch is fairly light if your dog is trained right it and uses the wind itwill pick up a bird in that ditch no problem if it doesn't give it away as a pet

Ah you must be hunting beet fields. Stephens day and the day after here Kilkenny were -2 at 8.30am with NO wind, if I let my dog run down along a ditch without seeing him go to cover I'd give him off lad no problem. What your talking about is pointer setter work not beating cover for woodcock and pheasants for that matter when the cold weather sets in. We rose 8 woodcock yesterday at least 20-30 feet in from the field we were walking in. I'd love to see your dog wind them and trail them and flush them.

Brianmeath

tikkahunter wrote: »

It's not as simple as that, you do train your dog's to use the wind don't you? It don't matter when a bird landed in any dog with a half decent nose will pick it up, that ditch is fairly light if your dog is trained right it and uses the wind itwill pick up a bird in that ditch no problem if it doesn't give it away as a pet

Couldn't put any better.

fiestaman

tikkahunter wrote: »

It's not as simple as that, you do train your dog's to use the wind don't you? It don't matter when a bird landed in any dog with a half decent nose will pick it up, that ditch is fairly light if your dog is trained right it and uses the wind itwill pick up a bird in that ditch no problem if it doesn't give it away as a pet

Just on the wind thing, if you can keep your dogs working always into the wind then your some man.

tikkahunter

fiestaman wrote: »

Ah you must be hunting beet fields. Stephens day and the day after here Kilkenny were -2 at 8.30am with NO wind, if I let my dog run down along a ditch without seeing him go to cover I'd give him off lad no problem. What your talking about is pointer setter work beating cover for woodcock and pheasants for that matter when the cold weather sets in. We rose 8 woodcock yesterday at least 20-30 feet in from the field we were walking in. I'd love to see your dog wind them and trail them and flush them.

No if the dog was working beet, stubble or set aside the dogs are fully trained to quarter and if working cover or woodland they will work it the same way when sent in,what i am talking about is the second video the ditch is light the dogs should nip in around the ditch top and when they wind something flush it.

fiestaman wrote: »

Just on the wind thing, if you can keep your dogs working always into the wind then your some man.

The dogs dont work into the wind they learn to use the wind from their training .
Listen 6 years ago you where on here asking about which dogs to use for hunting and how to train them ,which books etc .

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57209006

I have 20 odd years more experience than you i am no expert but i know what i am talking about. When training a dog you teach it to use the wind when quartering it is part of the process go back on some of your old threads and buy some of the books and videos that where suggested to you and you will see how its done.

Dawggone wrote: »

You are making the weakest excuses for the worst dogs.
How do you reckon that ? , my dogs are trained to a very high standard if they have to go in and rip heavy cover apart they are sent in to do that and if they are just working a ditch like that second video then they just work the top nip in and out and if they wind something they go in and flush it, pointless having a dog working a ditch like that and staying in it the whole time.


If a dog is bred for a job why do people accept (and feed) a dog that doesn't do just that?
I never want to see a springer only hear it. If I want the dog out of cover I will call it out.


SPANIELS MUST HIT COVER.
Make all the usual excuses for the dogs that don't hit cover but they are not fit for purpose if they don't.

Again what we are talking about here is not real cover its a ditch with a few dirty spots on it that will hold birds, i dont expect my dog to go in at the start and come out at the end , just working the top of that is fine , your man in the video has them a bit loose and they are running up and down a fair bit what im talking about is staying tight and working not just running up and down the ditch aimlessly


The real problem with spaniels is when you get one with good drive they lack stamina.

Well i will concede that to you , what has been done with the full blessing of the kennel club to the Springers in this country is disgraceful , they freely let anybody with a field trail champion let his dog up on anything for a few quid, they have ruined great hunting lines and let "pets" into the hunting line , some of the springers going around now are more like my cocker in build and can only hunt in short bursts , you are lucky to get a morning out of them.

Dawggone

To reply to Tikka.

I'm sorry if I come across as cynical.

I'm more the purist...
To me spaniels were originally bred to hunt cover, soooo, if I need a dog to hunt cover, I will get a springer. Full stop. The sight of a spaniel hunting open country like sugar beet etc makes me smile. The most unsuitable dog for that must be a springer. The most suitable dog for cover is a spaniel, so if they can't/won't/don't do that then they are of no use.
We differ. I want a cover dog to do cover, all day long and five days a week.
Any spaniel that doesn't do this I have no interest in.



It is not the trialling man's fault for the demise of the spaniel.
It is the fault of field trials.

I regret to say I no longer have a spaniel because, even though I had some good ones, they didn't breed through and the line slipped through my fingers.

tikkahunter

The land i work is very mixed , one of the largest farms i shoot on would have stubble ,heavy cover ,grass with cattle ,ploughed fields and set aside with rivers so in one day i could have huge variance in what land i shoot and the part of the country where my club land is located it is hugely mixed so thats what i set my dogs up for,but yes i can see what your saying for heavy cover no point in your dog running around your feet afraid to hit the cover ,im saying the same but when working ditches i keep them up top staying tight working in tandem,they go in when is a scent or they want to hunt a heavy part themselves ,the 2 i have at the moment are 4 and 5 so it is just second nature to them now, they hunt away, every now and again i have to remind them who is boss though. I feel the kennel club should have stepped in and stopped what is going on , you look at any adds for dogs in shooting magazines, done deal, buy and sell etc and all the litters where being sired by the same few dogs.

fiestaman

tikkahunter wrote: »

No if the dog was working beet, stubble or set aside the dogs are fully trained to quarter and if working cover or woodland they will work it the same way when sent in,what i am talking about is the second video the ditch is light the dogs should nip in around the ditch top and when they wind something flush it.

The dogs dont work into the wind they learn to use the wind from their training .
Listen 6 years ago you where on here asking about which dogs to use for hunting and how to train them ,which books etc .

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57209006

I have 20 odd years more experience than you i am no expert but i know what i am talking about. When training a dog you teach it to use the wind when quartering it is part of the process go back on some of your old threads and buy some of the books and videos that where suggested to you and you will see how its done.
/QUOTE]

How do you know what I've done with dogs in the last 6 years. You have a lot of experience under your belt with those 20 odd years alright I'm sure you've brought spaniels to FT level. Il get some of them books and videos and see how you train a dog to quarter 8 feet either side of me and scent birds deep in cover while there doing that, all I need is wind.

Dawggone

tikkahunter wrote: »

The land i work is very mixed , one of the largest farms i shoot on would have stubble ,heavy cover ,grass with cattle ,ploughed fields and set aside with rivers so in one day i could have huge variance in what land i shoot and the part of the country where my club land is located it is hugely mixed so thats what i set my dogs up for,but yes i can see what your saying for heavy cover no point in your dog running around your feet afraid to hit the cover ,im saying the same but when working ditches i keep them up top staying tight working in tandem,they go in when is a scent or they want to hunt a heavy part themselves ,the 2 i have at the moment are 4 and 5 so it is just second nature to them now, they hunt away, every now and again i have to remind them who is though.

Maybe you should consider English Setters..... much better all rounders.

hathcock

fiestaman wrote: »

tikkahunter wrote: »

No if the dog was working beet, stubble or set aside the dogs are fully trained to quarter and if working cover or woodland they will work it the same way when sent in,what i am talking about is the second video the ditch is light the dogs should nip in around the ditch top and when they wind something flush it.

The dogs dont work into the wind they learn to use the wind from their training .
Listen 6 years ago you where on here asking about which dogs to use for hunting and how to train them ,which books etc .

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57209006

I have 20 odd years more experience than you i am no expert but i know what i am talking about. When training a dog you teach it to use the wind when quartering it is part of the process go back on some of your old threads and buy some of the books and videos that where suggested to you and you will see how its done.
/QUOTE]

How do you know what I've done with dogs in the last 6 years. You have a lot of experience under your belt with those 20 odd years alright I'm sure you've brought spaniels to FT level. Il get some of them books and videos and see how you train a dog to quarter 8 feet either side of me and scent birds deep in cover while there doing that, all I need is wind.

A man can learn a lot in 6 years,I too have a lot of experience but I wouldn't discount anyone because they are relative newcomers to the sport,one can learn from anyone,I know one young man who started into shooting and gundogs only 3 seasons ago and he has trained his dogs to a high standard,and having spent a day hunting in his company you'd swear he was at it 20 years.For some it just comes natural.

tikkahunter

fiestaman wrote: »

tikkahunter wrote: »

No if the dog was working beet, stubble or set aside the dogs are fully trained to quarter and if working cover or woodland they will work it the same way when sent in,what i am talking about is the second video the ditch is light the dogs should nip in around the ditch top and when they wind something flush it.

The dogs dont work into the wind they learn to use the wind from their training .
Listen 6 years ago you where on here asking about which dogs to use for hunting and how to train them ,which books etc .

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57209006

I have 20 odd years more experience than you i am no expert but i know what i am talking about. When training a dog you teach it to use the wind when quartering it is part of the process go back on some of your old threads and buy some of the books and videos that where suggested to you and you will see how its done.
/QUOTE]

How do you know what I've done with dogs in the last 6 years. You have a lot of experience under your belt with those 20 odd years alright I'm sure you've brought spaniels to FT level. Il get some of them books and videos and see how you train a dog to quarter 8 feet either side of me and scent birds deep in cover while there doing that, all I need is wind.

Who said anything about quartering 8 feet from anything , you teach your dog to quarter and how to use the wind ,so when working close to a ditch or working cover they know what they are at and not just charging about like lunatics, you teach your dog manners then how to hunt , when it has both your job is to keep that going till it kicks the bucket.

tikkahunter

Dawggone wrote: »

Maybe you should consider English Setters..... much better all rounders.

Na they are a old mans dog:D What i have does me fine ,if i need them to hit cover they do it if they hunt ditches or rivers edge they do it if i them want to quarter stubble they do it , i put a lot of effort into them and i get my rewards during the season, only poor shooting sees me go home empty handed.

fiestaman

tikkahunter wrote: »

fiestaman wrote: »

Who said anything about quartering 8 feet from anything , you teach your dog to quarter and how to use the wind ,so when working close to a ditch or working cover they know what they are at and not just charging about like lunatics, you teach your dog manners then how to hunt , when it has both your job is to keep that going till it kicks the bucket.

I'm not getting into anymore about this thread but one thing I know in my 6 years as you say, you can't teach a spaniel to hunt, he /she either have it or they don't. I like my dog in the cover you like them in the cover and out of the cover, that's grand we'll leave it at that.

tikkahunter

fiestaman wrote: »

tikkahunter wrote: »

I'm not getting into anymore about this thread but one thing I know in my 6 years as you say, you can't teach a spaniel to hunt, he /she either have it or they don't. I like my dog in the cover you like them in the cover and out of the cover, that's grand we'll leave it at that.

plenty going around these days that dont , criminal what has happened really.

Dawggone

tikkahunter wrote: »

Na they are a old mans dog:D What i have does me fine ,if i need them to hit cover they do it if they hunt ditches or rivers edge they do it if i them want to quarter stubble they do it , i put a lot of effort into them and i get my rewards during the season, only poor shooting sees me go home empty handed.

Then, de facto, you shoot some very nice country....

tikkahunter

Dawggone wrote: »

Then, de facto, you shoot some very nice country....

Hopefully no more housing booms kick in , we lost a lot to that and roads but still have a lot of good land left hopefully it stays that way.

fiestaman

tikkahunter wrote: »

fiestaman wrote: »

plenty going around these days that dont , criminal what has happened really.

Ha your a gas man. Happy hunting

tikkahunter

fiestaman wrote: »

tikkahunter wrote: »

Ha your a gas man. Happy hunting

Finally a happy ending to a thread where no one got banned or a warning:D

snipe49

tikkahunter wrote: »

This is the way my dogs work , up on the ditch only go in when they need to ie .something there, no point having a dog ploughing at ditch out of it for no reason , The dog in the first video hunts well has a nice pattern but to keep that pace up is impossible , that dog would be ****ed before you had it out an hour, though saying that my cocker is very like that and can keep going all day.

I have a bitch out of those two 10 months. FOR SALE.

rebok classic

this not the for sale section just out of curiosity you have a pup from the 2 in the second vid what are your reasons for sale dont say no time or room