Signed up to City Bin without my consent or prior notification

mrcheez

I received a letter from my current bin collection provider that "due to restrictions across the Dublin region" they will no longer be servicing my area and that they have transferred my account across to City Bin.

A second "Welcome to City Bin" letter accompanies this one, plus I've been reliably informed a city bin operator will be in contact with me soon to get my bank details.

I'm currently on "Pay-as-you-go" with my current provider so I refuse to be moved to a monthly-payment system, and there's no way they are signing me up for direct debit.

Apart from this being grossly illegal (signing me up without my consent), what steps do I take from here?

I still have credit at the old provider so I suspect I can ask them to refund me the amount. Do I threaten small claims court?

slimjimmc

You could try push for breach of contract (lack of notice, etc) but that's likely to come to nothing imo.
AFAIK Bye-laws require you to be signed up with a waste collector so just get your credit back and sign up with the best offer you can get.

mrcheez

slimjimmc wrote: »

AFAIK Bye-laws require you to be signed up with a waste collector

hmm I'd question that as you can dispose of your rubbish yourself if you choose (i.e. bring it to a recycling centre)

Have a link to the bye-law?

slimjimmc

mrcheez wrote: »

hmm I'd question that as you can dispose of your rubbish yourself if you choose (i.e. bring it to a recycling centre)

Have a link to the bye-law?

Perhaps you can, you need to check with your Local Authority. For example Dublin City Council's website says you can but the actual text of the bye-laws (Sect 8h) indicates you need permission: PDF document

h. A holder shall enter into a contract with an authorised waste collector for the collection of their household waste or commercial waste, unless otherwise authorised in writing by an appointed person. A holder can show compliance with this Bye-Law by demonstrating to the satisfaction of an authorised person that they hold a current contract as aforesaid or a current authorisation as aforesaid.

davo10

If your current provider is prevented by DCC from operating in your area, they have assured your continuity of service by transferring your account to the provider who is licensed in your area, hard to see a legal issue with this especially if there is no alternative service provider and the original provider has not given new provider your personal bank details.

GerardKeating

mrcheez wrote: »

Apart from this being grossly illegal (signing me up without my consent), what steps do I take from here?

Are you so sure this is grossly illegal ? Have you fully read the T&C with your (soon to be) ex provider. Is there any clause to allow them to "sell" or transfer your contract to another provider.

mrcheez wrote: »

I still have credit at the old provider so I suspect I can ask them to refund me the amount. Do I threaten small claims court?

Why is your first option to "go nuclear" with them, maybe they are already arranging a refund for your credit. Have you asked them yet?

dudara

I doubt the transfer of your account to another provider is "grossly illegal". There are usually provisions in contracts to allow for this type of scenario. In any case, if you don't want to be with City Bin, you can cancel and find another provider.

With regards to a refund from your old provider, I'd start by ringing them and asking for the refund to be processed. You're probably not the only customer in this situation.

mrcheez

davo10 wrote: »

hard to see a legal issue with this especially if there is no alternative service provider and the original provider has not given new provider your personal bank details.

There are a few alternative suppliers so what would have been better is notifying me of the situation in advance and letting me choose my alternative supplier rather than signing me up to a new company without my consent.

The old provider passed on all my details to the new provider, something I didn't consent to, and opened an account in my name with a different (more expensive) payment structure than what I had signed a contract for. Which part of this isn't illegal?

mrcheez

GerardKeating wrote: »

Why is your first option to "go nuclear" with them, maybe they are already arranging a refund for your credit. Have you asked them yet?

Where did I say "go nuclear" is my first option? I believe I suggested "getting refund" as the first option and failing that the second option I listed was "small claims court"?

And no, any credit balance won't be refunded but will be transferred to City Bin so now I have to try to claim the credit back from them instead when/if I decide to close the account.

So essentially the old provider are trying to pass on the problem to someone else and the credit will probably get lost in the transfer hence why I'm trying to get an idea of possible follow-up steps if required.

davo10

mrcheez wrote: »

There are a few alternative suppliers so what would have been better is notifying me of the situation in advance and letting me choose my alternative supplier rather than signing me up to a new company without my consent.

The old provider passed on all my details to the new provider, something I didn't consent to, and opened an account in my name with a different (more expensive) payment structure than what I had signed a contract for. Which part of this isn't illegal?

Which part is illegal in your opinion? They didn't pass your banking details and DCC presumably have the name of the person living at your address so if you are required to sign with a refuse collector, could it have been on DCCs instruction that the name of the occupant was passed to the new company? The previous operator ensured continuity of service, if you have a choice of provider, what is stopping you from exercising your right as a consumer and moving your account to another provider? What's the big deal? You obviously don't have a contract with this new company and so are not bound to using them. Why can't you just phone them and say "thanks but no thanks, I'm going to use another bin service"? Simples.

mrcheez

davo10 wrote: »

You obviously don't have a contract with this new company and so are not bound to using them.

That's precisely the problem.

The contract has been "moved" to them without my consent, so I'm bound to the new company and whatever cancellation fees they have etc.

Not so simples.

Also the DCC doesn't have my email or other non-public personal details that the new provider has without my consent. Nice case for the Data Commissioner to have a look at.

How would you feel if your electricity provider jumped ship and opened an account for you with Airtricity or Electric Ireland - including the contract etc?

Anyway, I've probably got all the info I'm going to get from this thread ... was just wondering if a similar case had occurred and what steps were taken. Cheers.

davo10

mrcheez wrote: »

That's precisely the problem.



How would you feel if your electricity provider jumped ship and opened an account for you with Airtricity or Electric Ireland - including the contract etc?

I think I'd be happy my electricity wasn't turned off when the company who used to provide it could no longer do so. Then I'd use my god given intuition and move to another provider.

slimjimmc

mrcheez wrote: »

That's precisely the problem.

The contract has been "moved" to them without my consent, so I'm bound to the new company and whatever cancellation fees they have etc.

Not so simples.

You're not bound simply because someone else set up an account using your details without your authority, so unless you consented either directly or indirectly (e.g. use the new service) I see no binding contract. Does your current contract provide this consent?

Also the DCC doesn't have my email or other non-public personal details that the new provider has without my consent. Nice case for the Data Commissioner to have a look at.

How would you feel if your electricity provider jumped ship and opened an account for you with Airtricity or Electric Ireland - including the contract etc?

Anyway, I've probably got all the info I'm going to get from this thread ... was just wondering if a similar case had occurred and what steps were taken. Cheers.

Data privacy could indeed be an issue unless your current contract allows for it.

mrcheez

davo10 wrote: »

I think I'd be happy my electricity wasn't turned off when the company who used to provide it could no longer do so.

:rolleyes:

btw I've signed you up to a years Netflix as we're cutting off your TV sub, but sure it's no bother you can just call them up and cancel.

BuffyBot

I suspect the problem people have is your assumption (without checking your existing terms and conditions to see if it was authorised) that you have been "Signed up to City Bin without my consent or prior notification"

Check your existing T&C's before jumping to this, perhaps somewhat inflammatory, conclusion

davo10

mrcheez wrote: »

:rolleyes:

btw I've signed you up to a years Netflix as we're cutting off your TV sub, but sure it's no bother you can just call them up and cancel.

Ah, you are not required to have a TV subscription, apparently you are bound by bye-laws to have refuse disposal. Silly analogy

mrcheez

BuffyBot wrote: »

I suspect the problem people have is your assumption (without checking your existing terms and conditions to see if it was authorised) that you have been "Signed up to City Bin without my consent or prior notification"

Check your existing T&C's before jumping to this, perhaps somewhat inflammatory, conclusion

T&C's checked and no mention that they will automatically open a new account with a different supplier, nor that they will pass on private details to said company without your permission.

Conclusion justified I believe

In fact they specify the exact opposite, that all details will be kept private according to Data Privacy laws

mrcheez

davo10 wrote: »

Ah, you are not required to have a TV subscription, apparently you are bound by bye-laws to have refuse disposal. Silly analogy

No it's actually a perfect example of how a 3rd party created an account in your name without your permission, which is the whole point of this thread

If a company cannot provide a service then they notify you that they cannot provide the service with sufficient notice so that I can then choose an alternative.

It's really not that hard a concept to grasp (although perhaps it is for some)

BuffyBot

Conclusion justified I believe

I'd suggest doing that prior to posting, and covering that ground in your post should you run into a similar issue in the future then

John Mason

we are in the same boat, we will be paying the same amount, 20e a month BUT we actually were going to move to them after christmas for 12e a month.

so now we are paying 8e more :mad::mad:

Odyssey 2005

John Mason wrote: »

we are in the same boat, we will be paying the same amount, 20e a month BUT we actually were going to move to them after christmas for 12e a month.

so now we are paying 8e more :mad::mad:

Can you not cancel the account and open another one in another name and put a letter behind the house number like 1a No Name Street. Would that get you the €8 saving?

John Mason

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Can you not cancel the account and open another one in another name and put a letter behind the house number like 1a No Name Street. Would that get you the €8 saving?

am going to phone them on monday but being in the middle of a housing estate, not ure that will work

Odyssey 2005

John Mason wrote: »

am going to phone them on monday but being in the middle of a housing estate, not ure that will work

Don't know your situation but tell them you have separated from your spouse and are living upstairs so you are 1a and downstairs is 1b so there is two families under the one roof..

mrcheez

BuffyBot wrote: »

I'd suggest doing that prior to posting, and covering that ground in your post should you run into a similar issue in the future then

Sure you've made the assumption I hadn't read the T&Cs, I never said I didn't :rolleyes: ... regardless it would be a challenge to find a T&C that includes a clause to automatically sign you up to another provider at a higher price without prior notification.

Anyway I've been in contact with City Bin today and it appears 2,000 people are in a similar situation and they've been inundated with angry emails about the same situation.

Seems previous supplier could have handled this somewhat better and were supposed to have mailed us well in advance.. although City Bin said the automatic sign-ups would still have gone ahead.

Nice to know they have all my personal details on file though.

Sure, according to some in this forum, we should let all companies play fast and loose with our private data and make the big hard decisions in life on our behalf.

davo10

mrcheez wrote: »

Nice to know they have all my personal details on file though.

You mean like your name, address, date of birth, PPS number, bank account details, credit card details, spouse/offspring details, religion, income, sexual orientation, ethnicity etc or is it just the name of the person who lives at that address? Big difference

keithclancy

davo10 wrote: »

Ah, you are not required to have a TV subscription, apparently you are bound by bye-laws to have refuse disposal. Silly analogy

In Cork City you are not anyway.

Many people dispose of rubbish themselves.

Also many places in the Countryside are not serviced by Bin collection companies.

mrcheez

davo10 wrote: »

You mean like your name, address, date of birth, PPS number, bank account details, credit card details, spouse/offspring details, religion, income, sexual orientation, ethnicity etc or is it just the name of the person who lives at that address? Big difference

huh? As I explained before they have details that are not publicly available.

The fact they rang my number out of the blue is sufficient evidence of that. They also explained that they "would have to contact me to get my bank details as my previous supplier didn't have these on file".

Naturally (and thankfully) I hadn't given the previous supplier my bank details.

davo10

keithclancy wrote: »

In Cork City you are not anyway.

Many people dispose of rubbish themselves.

Also many places in the Countryside are not serviced by Bin collection companies.

OP lives in Dublin and slimjimmc posted a by-law which requires residents to sign up for waste disposal. To my knowledge DCC does not require you to sign up for satallite TV.

davo10

mrcheez wrote: »

huh? As I explained before they have details that are not publicly available.

The fact they rang my number out of the blue is sufficient evidence of that. They also explained that they "would have to contact me to get my bank details as my previous supplier didn't have these on file".

Naturally (and thankfully) I hadn't given the previous supplier my bank details.

So they have the info which is often available on goldenpages. I'm sorry but I still can't see your gripe, you can still just phone up and change provider, they have no info which can be used to charge you unless you actually sign up to use the service by supplying bank details.

I would share your annoyance if they handed over bank/ PPS info but they didn't.

slimjimmc

davo10 wrote: »

OP lives in Dublin and slimjimmc posted a by-law which requires residents to sign up for waste disposal. To my knowledge DCC does not require you to sign up for satallite TV.

I posted a bye-law for Dublin City Council, the OP may live in another council area with different bye-laws, for example Fingal's bye-laws govern how waste is presented for collection but I see nothing that requires residents to sign-up to a collection service. So it may be as clear cut as you suggest which is why I advised he contact his local authority (wherever that may be).


http://www.fingalcoco.ie/environment/waste-and-recycling/litter-and-domestic-waste/

davo10

slimjimmc wrote: »

I posted a bye-law for Dublin City Council, the OP may live in another council area with different bye-laws, for example Fingal's bye-laws govern how waste is presented for collection but I see nothing that requires residents to sign-up to a collection service. So it may be as clear cut as you suggest which is why I advised he contact his local authority (wherever that may be).


http://www.fingalcoco.ie/environment/waste-and-recycling/litter-and-domestic-waste/

Surely OP would have checked this out and posted if it did not apply? Instead he/she chose an analogy about subscription TV.

Just had a quick google there, the same bye-laws seem to apply through out Dublin.