It is great to have the NCT road testing monopoly in a country with poor roads.

18MonthsaSlave

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/lousy-roads-to-blame-for-nct-failures-304179.html

Lousy roads’ to blame for NCT failures


Our "lousy roads" — along with a failure to keep our cars in good condition — are the main reasons for failing the NCT, according to the AA.
Test results show that cars fail the test due to the impact of wear and tear on suspension, tyres, braking systems, and lights.
Figures show that just over half of all cars tested up to the end of November had failed their NCT.
This continues a trend in 2013 and 2012, which marked an increase on the previous years, when it stood at around 48%.

contd.

drumswan

We don't have lousy roads

18MonthsaSlave

drumswan wrote: »

We don't have lousy roads

I understand that forums are more lively when people have opposing views but it aids discussion if you actually back up your position with a reasoned argument.

I know that the roads in Southern Germany where I live and work are infinitely better than the roads around the part of Ireland I come from.

johnayo

A lot of the secondary roads in this country are in very poor condition.

jca

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

I understand that forums are more lively when people have opposing views but it aids discussion if you actually back up your position with a reasoned argument.

I know that the roads in Southern Germany where I live and work are infinitely better than the roads around the part of Ireland I come from.

Why are you starting this thread when you don't even live here anymore?? What are the failure rates for the German equivalent of their nct. Do you own an irish car?

bazz26

Poor roads are not exclusive to Ireland though. I'd like to see some similar stats from other countries that have regular road worthiness tests for comparison.

drumswan

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

I understand that forums are more lively when people have opposing views but it aids discussion if you actually back up your position with a reasoned argument.

I know that the roads in Southern Germany where I live and work are infinitely better than the roads around the part of Ireland I come from.

So a part of Germany has better roads than a part of Ireland. That's amazing and really relevant.

There's nothing in this article to show that areas with secondary roads have more failures related to suspensions or how Ireland compares with anywhere else.

I've lived in Australia, New Zealand and Canada and our roads are miles ahead of all three.

corktina

it's a story for a slow news day....written to gain the support of all those who don't want to spend money on maintaining their car....if the roads are so bad, just slow down and drive around the potholes.

Alias G

Ireland has one of the most extensive road networks in Europe due to the amount of boreen traversing the countryside. How exactly are we supposed to fund the maintenance of it. If people prefer to live in the back of beyond the reality is poor infrastructure is a disadvantage to that decision

Chips O'Toole

jca wrote: »

Why are you starting this thread when you don't even live here anymore??

Yeah! Stick your foreign opinions.

ezra_pound

drumswan wrote: »

So a part of Germany has better roads than a part of Ireland. That's amazing and really relevant.

There's nothing in this article to show that areas with secondary roads have more failures related to suspensions or how Ireland compares with anywhere else.

I've lived in Australia, New Zealand and Canada and our roads are miles ahead of all three.

The population density per sq km is 228. In Ireland it is 67. It makes obvious sense that there would be much better roads there.

The roads in Ireland are now of a high standard. Only if we stop one off housing and get people back to living in towns would it make economic sense to improve the standard of our roads.

18MonthsaSlave

jca wrote: »

Why are you starting this thread when you don't even live here anymore?? What are the failure rates for the German equivalent of their nct. Do you own an irish car?

I have an Irish car and a German car.
I find it funny how so many people who haven't emigrated want to hear nothing from emigrants.
German TUV has nothing to do with this.

BTW that www at the start of the URL stands for world wide web.

antodeco

I live in central Dublin. One if the main roads to the M50 near me is a disgrace. There's always trucks on it which have badly damaged the road. From my house, directly to the red cow, has 14 (I counted) potholes that are wider than one foot wide.

Combined with the obscenely high ramps, I no longer take thus route in my classic. In my day to day car, it still get a quite a wallop, and my dashcam beeps constantly from all the impacts.

colm_mcm

failure to keep our cars in good condition

Anyone see this bit?


Thread title doesn't really match the article, looks like yet another NCT bashing thread.

Most roads aren't bad..... NCT is a great value, thorough inspection, GREAT country.

18MonthsaSlave

I am led to believe that the suspension set-up we get in the new Avensis sold in Ireland is different to that in the rest of Europe after Toyota undertook extensive suspension testing on our still somewhat unique Irish roads. The result is a car that rides and handles as though it were designed for Ireland, well it was!

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZFMkvo0CofAJ:www.offalyindependent.ie/dev/motoring/articles/2009/05/15/39511-new-toyota-avensis-improves-original-winning-formula/&hl=en&gl=ie&strip=1

jca

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

I have an Irish car and a German car.
I find it funny how so many people who haven't emigrated want to hear nothing from emigrants.
German TUV has nothing to do with this.

BTW that www at the start of the URL stands for world wide web.

The TUV has everything to do with it, what are the German statistics? You're comparing a terrible Ireland to a fantastic Germany, now back it up with some figures please? P.s. what did your Irish car fail on? ( If you really have one that is)

18MonthsaSlave

My Irish car with 50k km on it has a broken coil spring at present.
The car I gave to my sister with 12k miles on it failed NCT on a bust front shock even though it was only ever lightly used in the city.

Isn't it terrible how you try to personalise a thread because you don't like its content even though the quoted newspaper report lists hard statistics which are unarguable.

Over 50% of cars going for NCT are failing with a significantly large proportion of cars failing due to worn/damaged suspension.

bazz26

Lets go burn down the NCT centre so this never happens again!

corktina

antodeco wrote: »

I live in central Dublin. One if the main roads to the M50 near me is a disgrace. There's always trucks on it which have badly damaged the road. From my house, directly to the red cow, has 14 (I counted) potholes that are wider than one foot wide.

Combined with the obscenely high ramps, I no longer take thus route in my classic. In my day to day car, it still get a quite a wallop, and my dashcam beeps constantly from all the impacts.

did you report them?

jca

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

My Irish car with 50k km on it has a broken coil spring at present.
The car I gave to my sister with 12k miles on it failed NCT on a bust front shock even though it was only ever lightly used in the city.

Isn't it terrible how you try to personalise a thread because you don't like its content even though the quoted newspaper report lists hard statistics which are unarguable.

Over 50% of cars going for NCT are failing with a significantly large proportion of cars failing due to worn/damaged suspension.

God, this is like extracting teeth, what are the TUV statistics for suspension failures in the fantastic Germany?

jca

antodeco wrote: »

I live in central Dublin. One if the main roads to the M50 near me is a disgrace. There's always trucks on it which have badly damaged the road. From my house, directly to the red cow, has 14 (I counted) potholes that are wider than one foot wide.

Combined with the obscenely high ramps, I no longer take thus route in my classic. In my day to day car, it still get a quite a wallop, and my dashcam beeps constantly from all the impacts.

Less pressure on the right pedal will cure that, simples...

George Dalton

As far as I know the TUV pass figures in Germany are very very high (over 90%) I don't have any hard info to back that up so I am open to correction on it.

Does road condition play a part in the difference in pass rates in Ireland and Germany? Probably.

Is it the single biggest factor. Most definitely not.

The main problem is the Irish mentality in my opinion.

The average German motorist's attitude to car maintenance could be summed up as:

My car is the largest (or second largest) investment I will ever make. I use it to transport myself and my loved ones. I need to have a valid TUV in order to use my car on the public road. Therefore I will make sure my car is properly maintained and any repairs necessary are carried out promptly and to a high standard.

Result? Cars generally pass TUV first time.

Average Irish motorist:

Ah shure the car was serviced before I bought it there last year, be grand

Result? 50% failure rate followed by whinging about NCT "money racket" etc etc.

jca

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZFMkvo0CofAJ:www.offalyindependent.ie/dev/motoring/articles/2009/05/15/39511-new-toyota-avensis-improves-original-winning-formula/&hl=en&gl=ie&strip=1

It reads more like a party political broadcast on behalf of the Toyota party tbh, the Offaly independent the Mecca of motoring journalism, Beam me up Scotty, is it beer o clock yet???

jca

George Dalton wrote: »

As far as I know the TUV pass figures in Germany are very very high (over 90%) I don't have any hard info to back that up so I am open to correction on it.

Does road condition play a part in the difference in pass rates in Ireland and Germany? Probably.

Is it the single biggest factor. Most definitely not.

The main problem is the Irish mentality in my opinion.

The average German motorist's attitude to car maintenance could be summed up as:


Result? Cars generally pass TUV first time.

Average Irish motorist:



Result? 50% failure rate followed by whinging about NCT "money racket" etc etc.

Spot on. Probably the reason I've a 100% pass rate will all cars I've owned.

pablo128

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZFMkvo0CofAJ:www.offalyindependent.ie/dev/motoring/articles/2009/05/15/39511-new-toyota-avensis-improves-original-winning-formula/&hl=en&gl=ie&strip=1

You are correct. Irish cars get the 'Toyota Rough Road Pack' which has different shocks and springs and it rides a bit higher than uk spec cars. I have a uk spec avensis, which is lower than the irish ones and handles better. Guess what. It passed the nct a month ago first time. My fathers '99 Toyota 7 seater passes the nct first time every time. There's over 250k miles on it, and believe it or not is on it's original shocks.

If you went a bit easier on your car it might last a bit longer.

bazz26

They stopped fitting the Rough Ride Road Pack to Toyotas here a few years back, to further lower Co2 emissions.

visual

Probably all the speed bumps on nearly every road in every city and town have a large part to play with damaging suspension. That and every minor road full of pot holes.

The only roads of good condition are motorways, dual carriageways and main roads

Cuddlesworth

visual wrote: »

Probably all the speed bumps on nearly every road in every city and town have a large part to play with damaging suspension. That and every minor road full of pot holes.

The only roads of good condition are motorways, dual carriageways and main roads

In fairness, most drivers I see hitting speed bumps think mechanical sympathy is a band from the 80's.

Atlantic Dawn

The majority of cars fail the NCT on defective lights and tyres, these are something that anyone who doesn't know how to check shouldn't be driving a car.

18MonthsaSlave

pablo128 wrote: »

If you went a bit easier on your car it might last a bit longer.

Is this directed at me? If so, on what grounds did you form the opinion that this comment should be directed toward me? I'm interested to understand your thought process.

In any case, in the black of night on an unfamiliar unlit road one needs ESP to know where the potholes lie.
ESP above would be extra sensory perception not electronic stability program.

18MonthsaSlave

colm_mcm wrote: »

Anyone see this bit?


Thread title doesn't really match the article, looks like yet another NCT bashing thread.

Please quote back to me from my posts where I have criticised the NCT test. I have merely pointed out that the NCT test is very lucrative for the monopoly operator in no small measure due to poor state of Irish roads.

Others have pointed out that Ireland has more roads per capita than other countries but my Irish motor tax is 5 times the amount it would be in Germany.
Of course the response to that will be that motor tax isn't road tax...which leads on to the question why isn't it?
Chronic under-investment in the secondary road network should be an issue about which the public should be in revolt.
Diesel in my part of Germany was 112.3 cent per litre last week.
VAT on cars is only 19% compared to 23%
There is no VRT.

It appears that the Irish motorist has become desensitised to the abuse that they endure.

Atlantic Dawn

There's too many roads in areas with not enough people living in these areas to sustain their upkeep through taxes.

http://www.thejournal.ie/national-road-network-pq-1784448-Nov2014/

18MonthsaSlave

and County Councils use this as reason to abdicate their responsibility for maintaining any B-roads instead investing in Council Offices and staff.
In the countryside outside of Motorway and A-roads practically no money is being spent on road refurbishment. Without the NRA nothing would be done at all.

jca

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

Is this directed at me? If so, on what grounds did you form the opinion that this comment should be directed toward me? I'm interested to understand your thought process.

In any case, in the black of night on an unfamiliar unlit road one needs ESP to know where the potholes lie.
ESP above would be extra sensory perception not electronic stability program.

I find headlights help a lot too. No hunches required.

ezra_pound

visual wrote: »

Probably all the speed bumps on nearly every road in every city and town have a large part to play with damaging suspension. That and every minor road full of pot holes.

The only roads of good condition are motorways, dual carriageways and main roads

Would you prefer if crappy back roads were heavily invested in, resulting in inferior motorways dual carriageways and main roads?

That or an increase in lpt or motoring taxes?

keithclancy

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

I understand that forums are more lively when people have opposing views but it aids discussion if you actually back up your position with a reasoned argument.

I know that the roads in Southern Germany where I live and work are infinitely better than the roads around the part of Ireland I come from.

The roads in north western Germany are pretty much on par with Irish roads and compared to Dutch roads are complete crap.

You know immediately when you have crossed the border .. The poor drainage, bumps and road noise are a dead give away.

Belgian roads would loosen your dentures.

colm_mcm

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

Please quote back to me from my posts where I have criticised the NCT test. I have merely pointed out that the NCT test is very lucrative for the monopoly operator in no small measure due to poor state of Irish roads.

Others have pointed out that Ireland has more roads per capita than other countries but my Irish motor tax is 5 times the amount it would be in Germany.
Of course the response to that will be that motor tax isn't road tax...which leads on to the question why isn't it?
Chronic under-investment in the secondary road network should be an issue about which the public should be in revolt.
Diesel in my part of Germany was 112.3 cent per litre last week.
VAT on cars is only 19% compared to 23%
There is no VRT.

It appears that the Irish motorist has become desensitised to the abuse that they endure.

Even the fact that you're using a term like monopoly would imply you don't agree with Applus or any one company being appointed to test Irish cars.
Is that the case?

If you take pass rates as an example.
In cahersiveen the first time pass rate is 33%, second time pass rate is 93% (2012 figures)
This clearly means drivers are putting cars through to see what they fail on, then retest them. If this is more economical than paying a garage labour rate (it is, by a mile) to do a full inspection, then I'd question just how 'lucrative' this is.
Remember, Applus won a Europe-wide tender to get the NCT contract. If they were disproportionately coining it its unlikely that they would have won it.

Bongalongherb

Speed-bumps in almost every estate, it wreaks the suspension and alignment every-time. This is what I have a problem with.

18MonthsaSlave

OSI wrote: »

Pretty sure new cars are cheaper to tax in Ireland than Germany.

http://www.kfz-steuer.de/kfz-steuer_pkw.php

18MonthsaSlave

colm_mcm wrote: »

Even the fact that you're using a term like monopoly would imply you don't agree with Applus or any one company being appointed to test Irish cars.
Is that the case?

If you take pass rates as an example.
In cahersiveen the first time pass rate is 33%, second time pass rate is 93% (2012 figures)
This clearly means drivers are putting cars through to see what they fail on, then retest them. If this is more economical than paying a garage labour rate (it is, by a mile) to do a full inspection, then I'd question just how 'lucrative' this is.
Remember, Applus won a Europe-wide tender to get the NCT contract. If they were disproportionately coining it its unlikely that they would have won it.

I'll repeat my request to you:
Please quote back to me from my posts where I have criticised the NCT test. I have merely pointed out that the NCT test is very lucrative for the monopoly operator in no small measure due to poor state of Irish roads.

colm_mcm

Do you not think that the same lax attitude that means drivers put the car through a test to see what it fails on means that many drivers don't do the test on time and go months/years without tax.
I'd imagine this results in loss of revenue for the monopoly.

Do you know how lucrative testing is for Applus, or are you guessing?

A lazy article based on (self appointed voice of the motorist) Conor Faughnans theories doesn't carry much weight with me,

ninty9er

He said there was also a culture of poor maintenance among Irish drivers in general: “As a nation we could do better at maintenance. There is a culture in Irish people not to keep the car in good nick.”

He said this was understandable given the financial strains most people were under. “Ideally, people would service the car as recommended by the manufacturers, at intervals. But it is a money issue: If you have a funny rattle noise but a mortgage payment coming up, you might skimp on it. But we know it’s not a good idea with cars.”

It should come as no surprise to people when their cars fail on expired consumable items.:rolleyes:

colm_mcm

ninty9er wrote: »

It should come as no surprise to people when their cars fail on expired consumable items.:rolleyes:

You obviously work for the nct, or the council.

18MonthsaSlave

colm_mcm wrote: »

Do you not think...blah, blah, blah

So you are not able to point out to me any post where I criticized the NCT test.

a failure to keep our cars in good condition — are the main reasons for failing the NCT

I cracked up laughing at that line. Haha.

Blazer

Alias G wrote: »

Ireland has one of the most extensive road networks in Europe due to the amount of boreen traversing the countryside. How exactly are we supposed to fund the maintenance of it. If people prefer to live in the back of beyond the reality is poor infrastructure is a disadvantage to that decision

I imagine through something like motor tax?????????
Or we would have if Noonan hasn't take 600 million of that fund for Irish Water.

colm_mcm

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

So you are not able to point out to me any post where I criticized the NCT test.

You haven't addressed any of the questions I've directly asked you.

1: Do you know how lucrative testing is for Applus, or are you guessing

2: The fact that you're using a term like monopoly would imply you don't agree with Applus or any one company being appointed to test Irish cars.
Is that the case?

You did not criticise the NCT in your posts, but your thread title was clearly sarcastic and paraphrased the article to get your own point across.
Because you never clarified your position, its unclear what the point of the thread is.

The fact that you quoted my post, then removed anything that didn't suit you would suggest that you don't want a discussion. Again I'm open to correction.

ninty9er

Blazer wrote: »

I imagine through something like motor tax?????????
Or we would have if Noonan hasn't take 600 million of that fund for Irish Water.

That's off topic, but I think there is plenty of merit in ringfencing motor tax for roads.

It would mean a few percentage points on income tax, but I wouldn't necessarily have an issue with that once I could see the direct benefit of motor tax.

pred racer

drumswan wrote: »

We don't have lousy roads

You obviously don't live anywhere near me!

The roads around where I live are shocking! They are in the worst state I have ever seen them in. (I'm living there over 30yrs)

What did I fail my NCT on? A broken spring......wonder how that happened?

When I went in to get new tyres last week, one of my wheels has a huge flat spot on it. Wonder how that happened?

I look after my car, so yes I do believe that the state of our roads has something to do with the rate of fails, they are a fcuking disgrace.

And for anyone saying that we have too many roads......we have always had them, at least they were sorta looked after before.

paulmclaughlin

pred racer wrote: »

What did I fail my NCT on? A broken spring......wonder how that happened?

I look after my car

You look after your car but it was the NCT who found you had a broken spring?