House sold with mis-advertised BER

Piriz

It sounds to me like this might be done purposely by the EA and their BER Engineer... (EA gets engineer work, engineer gives EA false BER readings) a better BER is a more attractive property, easier to sell at a higher price etc.

Correct me if i'm wrong: the EA places both bidders under severe time pressure to have the property s/he is advertising for sale BER assessed and recommends a BER Engineer who both bidders use and (pay for?) a BER cert that is not accurate and misleads the bidders / buyer believe the property is of better energy standard than it is thus paying more for same property. The BER Cert is with held by the EA until the final point of sale.

OP i'd consider seeking legal advice.

ted1

Piriz wrote: »

It sounds to me like this might be done purposely by the EA and their BER Engineer... (EA gets engineer work, engineer gives EA false BER readings) a better BER is a more attractive property, easier to sell at a higher price etc.

Correct me if i'm wrong: the EA places both bidders under severe time pressure to have the property s/he is advertising for sale BER assessed and recommends a BER Engineer who both bidders use and (pay for?) a BER cert that is not accurate and misleads the bidders / buyer believe the property is of better energy standard than it is thus paying more for same property. The BER Cert is with held by the EA until the final point of sale.

OP i'd consider seeking legal advice.

Buyers don't get a place BER assessed. They are available to view online, you just need the MPRN of the meter.
HTTPS://ndber.seai.ie/pass/BER/search.aspx

P. Breathnach

When I was purchasing, my solicitor was given a copy of the BER report which she passed on to me without comment. To be frank, I wouldn't have expected her to comment (other than, perhaps, by way of conversation). A BER is a technical matter which lies outside a solicitor's area of professional competence.

My surveyor did not seek it either, and confined himself to general remarks about the energy efficiency of the property. I wanted his expert advice on other matters that I did not feel myself competent to deal with.

I looked up the BER online. My mindset was that it was my responsibility to be a prudent purchaser, and that I should look at certain things for myself. The BER was one of those things that I judged to fall into the purchaser's area of responsibility.

There might be grounds for complaint against the EA, but I think there is no real chance of OP winning sufficient compensation from anybody to bring the BER up to the level in the advertisement.

Diane Selwyn

galleria wrote: »

... we were told by the estate agent that, as it was at that point sale agreed,...

So you gazumped the original buyer and then were not able to access the BER report which should be freely available online and now want a discount?

Woshy

Diane Selwyn wrote: »

So you gazumped the original buyer and then were not able to access the BER report which should be freely available online and now want a discount?

My understanding from that post was that the OP had gone sale agreed on the property, not that he had gazumped another buyer

Oral Surgeon

Supercell wrote: »

OP if you have signed the contracts it's pretty much a done deal. The difference between G and C is massive, your surveyors report should really have highlighted the insulation (or lack of) but there isnt anything now that can be done IMHO.

As others have pointed out you can do a lot to improve this easily enough. Our house was a E which we brought up to a C by insulating the attic, replacing the boiler, putting trvs on the rads (which are a waste of time tbh and not used anymore) and replacing the single glazed windows with double glazing. You can get quite a fair amount of the cost of this back from the SEAI as a grant (you need to apply for the grant BEFORE doing the work - the tradesmen sign the doc the SEAI send you as the work is done). Electric Ireland are doing a promotion at the moment for new customers for a free Nest including installation which I cannot remommend more highly, our gas bill was half compared to what it was last year since we got it installed!

Whats a nest supercell?? sorry for going off topic...

braddun

http://www.independent.ie/life/home-garden/homes/the-berfaced-lies-our-inaccurate-energy-ratings-30257397.html

the_syco

galleria wrote: »

I believe the completion date of the sale has passed & all money has been transferred at this point. I have the keys. I have only signed the contract for sale. Is there something else to be signed to complete the sale?

Sounds like the sale has been completed. From what I've read, the BER isn't an exact science, so two people could tell you two different things depending on their past experience and qualification (or lack thereof) in various trades.

Although there's no proof, you been rushed through the sale would make me wonder was there ever another buyer, or was it smoke n mirrors to get you to buy the house quickly and ignore any possible red flags.

Perhaps the heart overcame the sensibilities of head?

jmayo

galleria wrote: »

Thanks for all the input. Definitely some things to look into there.

We got a survey but its not up to scratch and in retrospect we should have got another one - we were told by the estate agent that, as it was at that point sale agreed, if we wanted to get an offer in on the house we had to get a surveyor in that day so we went with the only person we could find who was available at such short notice. Though we sought him independently it turns out he is the surveyor the estate agent was suggesting. We informed him of the advertised rating but he didn't raise it as an issue or concern in the report. I've since spoken to the people we were bidding against & turns out they have the exact same report word for word. Very annoying!

You do know that a house purchase is one of the biggest purchases most people make and you rushed it through on the advice of a party linked to someone working for the vendor ?
What is the old phrase ?
"Act in haste repent at leisure".

To hell with the mis represented BER, they aren't worth the paper they are written on most of the time.
And besides, as some others have said it is pretty damm obvious if a house is down at F or G from just looking at it.

A more worrying prospect may be that there is something more major that the " EA suggested" surveyor failed to mention in their report.

What do you mean by their report is "not up to scratch" ?

galleria wrote: »

I have to admit we were skeptical of the C1 rating but as our solicitor said the ber cert would be sent to her we thought we'd see what would show up. It was only the day it the sale went through we asked her about it - and she then said it was up to us to get it off the estate agent. Yes - should have been more on top of things but it was a busy time and to be honest we trusted the solicitor was taking care it.

Piece of advice never trust a solicitor or an estate agent.
And I don't care if that offends anyone around here.

galleria wrote: »

I believe the completion date of the sale has passed & all money has been transferred at this point. I have the keys. I have only signed the contract for sale. Is there something else to be signed to complete the sale?

This is the best information I have found on where we stand with this > lawsociety.ie/Solicitors/Practising/Practice-Notes/Building-Energy-Rating-BER-Certificates/#.VJnt6cAgE4.

Still I'm just not sure on where we go from here. The hope is our solicitor will help us to resolve the matter in the New Year (there's nothing other than research can be done over the hols). Ideally what we are looking for is some money to be reimbursed to put towards improving the rating (a few thousand) - to compensate for their breach of the regulations. I believe we could potentially fight to get out of the contract as mandatory relevant information was not supplied - but really this is not the preferred scenario.

"The clear import of the regulations is to ensure that prospective purchasers have the relevant information concerning the energy usage of a building they are contemplating buying or leasing. That objective cannot be fulfilled if the purchaser is bound to a contract in advance of knowing the information."

Thanks for all the help. Will post an update in the New Year when when there's some developments.

You have signed contracts and transferred money in which case, I believe, you are stuck with it.
Sure you might have some grounds to initiate legal proceedings against solicitor and/or EA, but legal costs could soak up a lot of money very fast.
And what will you achieve at the end of it.

As some others have mentioned it might be advisable to get the full legalities checked by another solicitor because if your solicitor was blasé about a BER cert then maybe they let somethign else slide through as well.

the_syco

Well, now that you have the house, you have the time to get a proper surveyor to go through the house, and give an estimate of how much you'll need to spend to fix whatever problems it has.

Thinking that there's no point as you're in the house, is not an option; whatever they wanted you to miss you'll need to sort out sooner rather than later, or it becomes a bigger issue.