Chris Kyle American Sniper

Dave Joyce

Thought people might be interested in this movie directed by Clint Eastwood which is opening on January 15th:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2179136/

youtheman

Saw the film over the weekend. Not bad at all, certainly worth a watch.

SwiftJustice

Chris Kyle seemed to be a whackjob - a persistent liar who claimed to have gone down to New Orleans during Katrina and shot up to 30 people.

marienbad

No thanks

ftse100

Brilliant Movie. Very well written I thought. Bradley Cooper does a top job. Pretty amazing Story

DavidRamsay99

SwiftJustice wrote: »

Chris Kyle seemed to be a whackjob - a persistent liar who claimed to have gone down to New Orleans during Katrina and shot up to 30 people.

He shot looters, criminals and rapists who were running amok because the city was in chaos. Thousands of people taking refuge in the city's sports stadium needed to be protected.

AbusesToilets

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

He shot looters, criminals and rapists who were running amok because the city was in chaos. Thousands of people taking refuge in the city's sports stadium needed to be protected.

Except that's total bull**** and he has been shown to have lied or embellished incidents on numerous occasions.

Gatling

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Except that's total bull**** and he has been shown to have lied or embellished incidents on numerous occasions.

You mean the Jesse ventura

Paul_Hacket

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

He shot looters, criminals and rapists who were running amok because the city was in chaos. Thousands of people taking refuge in the city's sports stadium needed to be protected.

Haha, sure he did. He also claims he once punched the governor of Minnesota in a bar - except the governor wasn't even in the bar that night. Oh, and he also claimed to have shot two car jackers who ambushed him at a service station in Texas. Oh, and that the government hushed it up as a favor to him.

The man was a serial fantasist, as well as being an out and out racist thug. I don't know what is more pathetic - his ridiculous lies or those credulous enough to believe him.

AbusesToilets

Gatling wrote: »

You mean the Jesse ventura

There is the Jesse Ventura incident, the Katrina incident, the gas station incident, the chemical weapons discovery in Iraq, the donation of proceeds from his book sales to charity. A quick google for Chris Kyle lies turns up link after link, detailing the same inconsistencies.

The guy repeatedly lied and exaggerated to enhance his public profile and garner attention.

Gatling

A lot of it doesn't make sense at all , if he boasted about killing civilians while in the states he should have been investigated and indited,

Had the book since it came out watched ,all of his tv appearances at first first I respected him but the more you hear the more he sounds like a self inflated ego .

The same kinda applied to Marcus luttrell from lone survivor fame now I hated what he did during operation red wings but what's he's done to honor his team mates and other fallen warriors since ,
Completely turned my opinion on him .

Kyle seemed to have the world owes me attitude.

Dave Joyce

Christ there is SOME amount of horse****e been put up here. Those people who have put up their "information" about Chris Kyle, can you tell us WHERE you gleamed these gems or WHO are your sources of information???? All of the Teams guys have VERY tight circles in the huge majority of cases, hang out with and talk with THEIR guys and families ONLY so I would be very interested to hear where you heard these fantasies.

Marcus Luttrell speaks very highly of Chris Kyle and he was regarded as ANYTHING BUT a bull****ter!!!!

Gatling

Dave Joyce wrote: »

Christ there is SOME amount of horse****e been put up here. Those people who have put up their "information" about Chris Kyle, can you tell us WHERE you gleamed these gems or WHO are your sources of information???? All of the Teams guys have VERY tight circles in the huge majority of cases, hang out with and talk with THEIR guys and families ONLY so I would be very interested to hear where you heard these fantasies.

Marcus Luttrell speaks very highly of Chris Kyle and he was regarded as ANYTHING BUT a bull****ter!!!!

His book and various interviews by given by the man himself.
And never said luttrell was a bull****ter at all

riffmongous

This for a start jesse-ventura-wins-1-8-million-in-damages-against-chris-kyle-slain-navy-seal-sniper/

Paul_Hacket

Dave Joyce wrote: »

Christ there is SOME amount of horse****e been put up here. Those people who have put up their "information" about Chris Kyle, can you tell us WHERE you gleamed these gems or WHO are your sources of information???? All of the Teams guys have VERY tight circles in the huge majority of cases, hang out with and talk with THEIR guys and families ONLY so I would be very interested to hear where you heard these fantasies.

Marcus Luttrell speaks very highly of Chris Kyle and he was regarded as ANYTHING BUT a bull****ter!!!!

Yeah, Chris Kyle only talked with his family and close inner circle, he certainly did not write books and give numerous interviews on air bragging about nonsense that has now been shown to be false, right?

There's a "source" for my information in a previous post, and five seconds on google would have provided you with numerous more such as:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado
http://www.startribune.com/local/266448121.html
http://www.vulture.com/2015/01/real-american-snipers-5-alleged-lies.html
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairs
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/kyleclaims.asp

Do you really believe Chris Kyle's claim that he killed "dozens" of looters from his perch atop the Superdome during hurrican Katerina? Sorry, but anyone dumb enough to believe that shouldn't be allowed out of the house unescorted in my opinion.

Gatling

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Yeah, Chris Kyle only talked with his family and close inner circle, he certainly did not write books and give numerous interviews on air bragging about nonsense that has now been shown to be false, right?

There's a "source" for my information in a previous post, and five seconds on google would have provided you with numerous more such as:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado
http://www.startribune.com/local/266448121.html
http://www.vulture.com/2015/01/real-american-snipers-5-alleged-lies.html
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairs
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/kyleclaims.asp

Do you really believe Chris Kyle's claim that he killed "dozens" of looters from his perch atop the Superdome during hurrican Katerina? Sorry, but anyone dumb enough to believe that shouldn't be allowed out of the house unescorted in my opinion.

Then if that's the case his book should be reproduced under a heading of fiction .

DavidRamsay99

Kyle describes how after Fallujah was retaken at the end of 2004, that jihadists were still trying to infiltrate the city.
He was in a hide in a building overlooking the bridge where the contractor were roasted to death in their vehicle and then hung like meat and a marsh at the other side of the river.
He saw a group of guys who later turned out to be Tunisians wearing vests and armed with automatic weapons using bright colored beach balls as floats.
Of course he shot the balls and they guys drowned!
I laughed out loud when I read that one!

Paul_Hacket

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

Kyle describes how after Fallujah was retaken at the end of 2004, that jihadists were still trying to infiltrate the city.
He was in a hide in a building overlooking the bridge where the contractor were roasted to death in their vehicle and then hung like meat and a marsh at the other side of the river.
He saw a group of guys who later turned out to be Tunisians wearing vests and armed with automatic weapons using bright colored beach balls as floats.
Of course he shot the balls and they guys drowned!
I laughed out loud when I read that one!

Said the genius who was gullible enough to believe that this fantasist shot looters by the dozen from atop the Superdome during hurricane Katrina.

Tell me, do you also still believe in Santa Claus?

donaghs

Getting back to the film...
Not bad, a bit dull, the pacing was a bit slow or something. I found the domestic scenes very tedious. Enjoyable, but as recent war films go I much preferred Fury. That's my view of the film, just on its own.

But looking at the political and historical context, some of it left me little uncomfortable. This wasn't just trying to tell a story about a man and his experiences. The facts as we know them were different to some portrayed on screen - e.g. the sniper, and the driller killer.

Also, some of the impressions the film gives - that the Iraq invasion was some sort if revenge for 9/11. When a colleague mutters some vague thoughts about the war being wrong or pointless, the Kyle character shuts him up and answers his doubts by asking if you want to have to fight these people in "New York" or "San Diego". This reaffirms a strange belief that some Americans still hold. It ignores the fact the most came out to fight American in Iraq, because America was in Iraq. And it was America's toppling of Saddam Hussein which unleashed the Jihadis and the sectarian frenzy. And so on...
Leaving aside all the Iraqi dead of the actual wars, mostly civilians: The Kyle character says a fellow soldier got killed because he had doubts and started asking questions. The big unasked question of the film is that if in the world's major superpower no-one really knows why wars start and why they are fought, and is afraid to ask, where does this lead?

Stechkin

Book is way better , movie fully crap

tac foley

I find it very odd that outspoken anti-gun movie stars - Liam Neeson, Daniel Craig, Bradley Cooper, Seán Connery and others, are happy to make millions portraying gun-users of one kind or another, but don't like the idea of ordinary folks like me - and you - having guns for sporting use.

tac

Negative_G

tac foley wrote: »

I find it very odd that outspoken anti-gun movie stars - Liam Neeson, Daniel Craig, Bradley Cooper, Seán Connery and others, are happy to make millions portraying gun-users of one kind or another, but don't like the idea of ordinary folks like me - and you - having guns for sporting use.

tac

At the end of the day they're professional Hollywood actors. They'll do anything for a payday. Nothing odd about it in my opinion. Surely they are entitled to hold personal opinions opinions outside of their profession?

donaghs

tac foley wrote: »

I find it very odd that outspoken anti-gun movie stars - Liam Neeson, Daniel Craig, Bradley Cooper, Seán Connery and others, are happy to make millions portraying gun-users of one kind or another, but don't like the idea of ordinary folks like me - and you - having guns for sporting use.

tac

It's a fair point. But there is also a difference I think between shooting at a firing range, or even having a handgun for home protection - and having a small arsenal at home.

tac foley

donaghs wrote: »

It's a fair point. But there is also a difference I think between shooting at a firing range, or even having a handgun for home protection - and having a small arsenal at home.

Ah, that'll be me, then.

tac

true567

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJZP-uejaBA

I don't support alot (most) of U.S. foreign policy, but at the end of the day you must remember an important fact. Chris Kyle, and other soldiers, don't pick where they go, the time, or what they do- they are told by commanders who are told by politicans voted in by the people. If the government wanted Chris Kyle to provide sniper support at a domestic port- he would've. It is just that they put him in a position to do a job and he did, did it well too. Anyone who uses an online forum to anonymously attack a fallen husband and father who served his country (knowing his country told him to kill insurgents) are pathetic.

It seems like people such as Michael Moore forget they don't pick the conflict- he joined in 1999 before the war even started- but he saw that many had lost their life and fought for fallen soldiers and the people he loved.

Paul_Hacket

true567 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJZP-uejaBA

I don't support alot (most) of U.S. foreign policy, but at the end of the day you must remember an important fact. Chris Kyle, and other soldiers, don't pick where they go, the time, or what they do- they are told by commanders who are told by politicans voted in by the people. If the government wanted Chris Kyle to provide sniper support at a domestic port- he would've. It is just that they put him in a position to do a job and he did, did it well too. Anyone who uses an online forum to anonymously attack a fallen husband and father who served his country (knowing his country told him to kill insurgents) are pathetic.

It seems like people such as Michael Moore forget they don't pick the conflict- he joined in 1999 before the war even started- but he saw that many had lost their life and fought for fallen soldiers and the people he loved.

Sorry, but this is flat wrong on a number of levels. I believe in personal responsibility and Chris Kyle chose to enrole in the US army when its foreign policy vis-a-vis the middle east was a matter of well established knowledge. Therefore he carries moral responsibility for his action, just as the volunteers for any immoral enterprise do.

For the past 30 years the US has chosen to invade and bludgeon one country after another in the Middle East and Chris Kyle's contempt towards the region and its inhabitants, who he termed "savages" are abundantly clear from his autobiography.

In the same book he openly boasted about his pleasure in killing as many Muslims as possible and his acknowledgement that he didn't really care whether or not they were involved in "terrorist" activities.

He was, quite simply, a paid killer for an invasion force which destabilized the entire region. He was also a fantasist, a proven absurd liar and just an insufferable braggart.

Not my kind of person obviously, but if you choose to fan-worship a knuckle dragger who revelled in killing anyone he felt like just because they weren't white christians then good for you. We will reap what we sow.

true567

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Sorry, but this is flat wrong on a number of levels. I believe in personal responsibility and Chris Kyle chose to enrole in the US army when its foreign policy vis-a-vis the middle east was a matter of well established knowledge. Therefore he carries moral responsibility for his action, just as the volunteers for any immoral enterprise do.

For the past 30 years the US has chosen to invade and bludgeon one country after another in the Middle East and Chris Kyle's contempt towards the region and its inhabitants, who he termed "savages" are abundantly clear from his autobiography.

In the same book he openly boasted about his pleasure in killing as many Muslims as possible and his acknowledgement that he didn't really care whether or not they were involved in "terrorist" activities.

He was, quite simply, a paid killer for an invasion force which destabilized the entire region. He was also a fantasist, a proven absurd liar and just an insufferable braggart.

Not my kind of person obviously, but if you choose to fan-worship a knuckle dragger who revelled in killing anyone he felt like just because they weren't white christians then good for you. We will reap what we sow.

Firstly, get your facts straight- he served in the U.S. Navy, not Army. LOL.

More importantly, HE DOESN'T SET POLICY. NO SOLDIERS SET POLICY.He wrote his name on the contract saying they could use him however necessary- he could've been in Hawaii.

Also, he enlisted before 9-11 which is when the U.S. sent many troops to the middle east- in 1999 it was a much different theatre. Also, back then the Army Rangers & Delta Force were popular and the SEALs were essentially unheard of by everyday people. The only people who have blood on their hands are the special interest groups. He called them savages because they were blowing themselves up to kill marines- yeah, I'm sorry but anyone who voluntarily blows themself up is a savage.

A paid killer? LOL, he would've made more money (considerably more) as a police officer back in the States. They are paid peanuts for the work/hours/risk they contribute.

I don't fan worship- I read up on him back in 2011 and was intrigued by his story. Which you clearly are unaware of, army cough cough.

Paul_Hacket

Yes, troops don't set policy, however the policy of brutalizing this region for no good reason was firmly established before he chose to join. Do you think that any of the tens of thousands of people who had their lives ruined in Iraq because of this invasion care whether the racist christian-fudamentalist who invaded their country and is now shooting at them is in the army, navy or whatever?

Oh, and by the way, he was actually in the marines. So who exactly is the ignorant one here? *Cough *cough.

My point is simple and may be a little mind-blowing to you. I think that anyone who chose to join the US military in recent times has chosen to join an enterprise that capriciously kills innocent people for no good reason. You don't have to be a student of political science to see the overwhelming misery that US armed forces have meted out to hundreds of thousands of people world wide. People who joint he US military are not conscripted and are not "heroes", they are co-conspirators in war crimes.

Oh, and the guy you are "intrigued" by was a walking liar. Or do you believe his claims to have assasinated "dozens" of looters while stationed atop the Super Dome in New Orleans? Gullible much?

true567

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Yes, troops don't set policy, however the policy of brutalizing this region for no good reason was firmly established before he chose to join. Do you think that any of the tens of thousands of people who had their lives ruined in Iraq because of this invasion care whether the racist christian-fudamentalist who invaded their country and is now shooting at them is in the army, navy or whatever?

Oh, and by the way, he was actually in the marines. So who exactly is the ignorant one here? *Cough *cough.

My point is simple and may be a little mind-blowing to you. I think that anyone who chose to join the US military in recent times has chosen to join an enterprise that capriciously kills innocent people for no good reason. You don't have to be a student of political science to see the overwhelming misery that US armed forces have meted out to hundreds of thousands of people world wide. People who joint he US military are not conscripted and are not "heroes", they are co-conspirators in war crimes.

Oh, and the guy you are "intrigued" by was a walking liar. Or do you believe his claims to have assasinated "dozens" of looters while stationed atop the Super Dome in New Orleans? Gullible much?

What? He was not in the Marines. What the **** are you talking about? You clearly have no idea about anything regarding the U.S. military.

You just confirmed your ignorance on this topic. You first said Army, then Marines- no ****face he was in the U.S. Navy.

Re-read what you just wrote to yourself, and try telling yourself that you aren't retarded. I bet you won't be able to. No facts, just random, unorganized thoughts.

I'm not going to respond because I stopped reading after you said he was a Marine.

Paul_Hacket

true567 wrote: »

What? He was not in the Marines. What the **** are you talking about? You clearly have no idea about anything regarding the U.S. military.

You just confirmed your ignorance on this topic. You first said Army, then Marines- no ****face he was in the U.S. Navy.

Re-read what you just wrote to yourself, and try telling yourself that you aren't retarded. I bet you won't be able to. No facts, just random, unorganized thoughts.

I'm not going to respond because I stopped reading after you said he was a Marine.

You're right, he was in the navy, he only applied to join the marines. My mistake. But you showed a lot of class in response by calling someone who disagrees with your viewpoint ****face. Got some anger issues? Methinks that's why you've only been on these forums a couple of months. Get banned much do you?

Your inability to argue the facts of this fantasist's career beyond the level of being a pedant about which branch of the armed services he killed innocent people for says it all. Good luck with your fan worship of people who have been shown in open court to have been ridiculous liars.

true567

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

You're right, he was in the navy, he only applied to join the marines. My mistake. But you showed a lot of class in response by calling someone who disagrees with your viewpoint ****face. Got some anger issues? Methinks that's why you've only been on these forums a couple of months. Get banned much do you?

Your inability to argue the facts of this fantasist's career beyond the level of being a pedant about which branch of the armed services he killed innocent people for says it all. Good luck with your fan worship of people who have been shown in open court to have been ridiculous liars.

You attack my post by saying I'm wrong on all levels- and they state he was in the Army, and then attempt to "correct" me by saying he was in the Marines when he was only in the Navy. You are the definition of a ****face- I'll say that with no hesitation. Look at your posts where you try to one up me with wrong information- you are a complete ****face. You stated the wrong branch twice because you are a ****face. I don't have anger issues, you have intelligence issues.

That last paragraph didn't say anything of substance. But, it was your inability to argue the facts as it is well-documented. You lose all credibility when you argue with wrong information. How can one take your viewpoint seriously when you don't even know what branch he served in?

You're views aren't even your own either as they are clearly regurgitated from some looney like Michael Moore.

One last thing: this man accomplished more in his career than you or anyone in your gene pool ever will. Just want you to know that.

Just a little Samba

One man served his country with honour, fought foreign invaders with basic equipment and retired to a quite life afterwards.

The other was a sociopath with a tendency to not let the truth get in the way of a good story.

MightyMandarin

Just a little Samba wrote: »

One man served his country with honour, fought foreign invaders with basic equipment and retired to a quite life afterwards.

The other was a sociopath with a tendency to not let the truth get in the way of a good story.

They both served their country imo. However Hayha was a bigger hero in my eyes. Fought with basic weaponry against a much bigger enemy and didn't bullsh*t about his story.

Kyle was a great shooter and was courageous in what he did. But he also milked a lot of his fame and made up a lot of things too.

true567

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CiYEksYQq0

If they met in a dark alley, Kyle would walk out alive. That pussy Simo would never be able to go through hell week. Just look at him.

1) 160, and yes that would be most deadly in history of most powerful military and also comparing the two is like comparing George Best and Ronaldo- you can't they're from different eras. You would need to compare him to others in his era. However, I can guarantee Kyle was the better "pure" shot he was essentially born with a shotgun in his hands. And if they ever had a shoot-off it wouldn't be close- no matter the weapon. Also, all of Simo's came within 100 days because he was facing a force that the people on this forum probably could've picked off. Essentially, the argument would be who is the better shot? Kyle, hands down- everytime.
2) He doesn't control that.
3) All of Kyle's proceeds went to the families of wounded warriors- that is not "capitalizing".
4) Subjective. But from interviews he looks awkward and it seems like he is uncomfortable. He also shades away from accomplishments and put focus on his teammates. Also, he was promoting his story so that he could generate money for the families who lost soldiers- all of his proceeds went to them.
5)Completely falsified. He never bragged about anything, and no proof whatsoever he lied of anything.
6) Is that an accomplishment? I don't know, but having 2 Silver Stars and 5 Bronze Stars surely is.

Paul_Hacket

true567 wrote: »

You attack my post by saying I'm wrong on all levels- and they state he was in the Army, and then attempt to "correct" me by saying he was in the Marines when he was only in the Navy. You are the definition of a ****face- I'll say that with no hesitation. Look at your posts where you try to one up me with wrong information- you are a complete ****face. You stated the wrong branch twice because you are a ****face. I don't have anger issues, you have intelligence issues.

That last paragraph didn't say anything of substance. But, it was your inability to argue the facts as it is well-documented. You lose all credibility when you argue with wrong information. How can one take your viewpoint seriously when you don't even know what branch he served in?

You're views aren't even your own either as they are clearly regurgitated from some looney like Michael Moore.

One last thing: this man accomplished more in his career than you or anyone in your gene pool ever will. Just want you to know that.

Wow, more pathetic ad hominem bile. You're not a very happy person, are you? It seems that pointing out that the object of your man crush was a comically idiotic liar has gotten under your skin.

I made the simple point that people have personal responsibility - nobody is forced to join the US armed forces. His amazing subsequent "achievements" were to take part in an illegal invasion where he boasted about how he was happy to kill any male of military age because all Muslims and Arabs are "savages" and how anybody who isn't Christian deserves what's coming to them.

But none of that matters, right? All that matters is that your love object was in the army instead of the navy. Do you really think your impressing anyone by resorting to this nonsense?

I suggest you go ahead and call me a ****face again or blather on about the
section of the gene pool I come from, because it's clearly all your capable of.


Go ahead and delude yourself that none of that amounts to me saying "anything of substance" if it makes you feel better about the fact that you have fallen in love with this pathetic little loon.

Paul_Hacket

true567 wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CiYEksYQq0


5)Completely falsified. He never bragged about anything, and no proof whatsoever he lied of anything.

So, just for the record. You believe his claims that:

1. He shot "dozens" of looters while perched atop the roof of the Superdome after Hurrican Katerina?
2. That he killed two carjackers at a service station in Texas in 2009 and that the government hushed it up?
3. That he punched Jesse Ventura in the face in a bar after Ventura demeaned the US military? (HINT: after a full trial a US jury found this was a total lie and awarded Ventural $1.8 million from Kyle's estate.

But you believe all of the above, yeah?

Good for you man.

donaghs

true567 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJZP-uejaBA

I don't support alot (most) of U.S. foreign policy, but at the end of the day you must remember an important fact. Chris Kyle, and other soldiers, don't pick where they go, the time, or what they do- they are told by commanders who are told by politicans voted in by the people. If the government wanted Chris Kyle to provide sniper support at a domestic port- he would've. It is just that they put him in a position to do a job and he did, did it well too. Anyone who uses an online forum to anonymously attack a fallen husband and father who served his country (knowing his country told him to kill insurgents) are pathetic.

It seems like people such as Michael Moore forget they don't pick the conflict- he joined in 1999 before the war even started- but he saw that many had lost their life and fought for fallen soldiers and the people he loved.

This was originally a thread about the film, more so than the actual man. If Chris Kyle in the film said he was just doing his duty, or "just following orders", I think that's more understandable than the view actually presented in the film. The film creates the impression that Iraq was invaded to avenge terrorist attacks and to remove a terrorist threat there. That's its better to fight them there than in "new york or san diego". Do you need a refresh on where Al Qaeda came from, where they were based, and what Iraq was like pre-2003?

riffmongous

true567 wrote: »

If they met in a dark alley, Kyle would walk out alive. That pussy Simo would never be able to go through hell week. Just look at him.

Is there also a chapter in Kyle's book where he talks about his dark alley death fight with Häyhä? :rolleyes:

John_D80

true567 wrote: »

What? He was not in the Marines. What the **** are you talking about? You clearly have no idea about anything regarding the U.S. military.

You just confirmed your ignorance on this topic. You first said Army, then Marines- no ****face he was in the U.S. Navy.

Re-read what you just wrote to yourself, and try telling yourself that you aren't retarded. I bet you won't be able to. No facts, just random, unorganized thoughts.

I'm not going to respond because I stopped reading after you said he was a Marine.

You're not doing your argument any favours by using words like ****face and retarded.

So the chap doesn't know the different services of the U.S. forces, so what? His points are still valid and well made.

AbusesToilets

On the point about donating profits from his book, that is not true at all. A very small percentage were donated to charity.

Topper Harley

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

So, just for the record. You believe his claims that:

1. He shot "dozens" of looters while perched atop the roof of the Superdome after Hurrican Katerina?
2. That he killed two carjackers at a service station in Texas in 2009 and that the government hushed it up?
3. That he punched Jesse Ventura in the face in a bar after Ventura demeaned the US military? (HINT: after a full trial a US jury found this was a total lie and awarded Ventural $1.8 million from Kyle's estate.

But you believe all of the above, yeah?

Good for you man.

I haven't read his book but as far as I'm aware, none of these claims are in it and his claims about Jesse Ventura are the only one's with any evidence that he actually made these claims.

I haven't seen anywhere that directly quotes Kyle making these claims but I have read an article (which I can't find now but will link to if I do find it) that claimed Kyle said he was aware of snipers going to New Orleans to shoot looters but that he did not condone this. And his words were then twisted and repeated to the point where it is just accepted that he did claim to shoot looters.

Topper Harley

true567 wrote: »

If they met in a dark alley, Kyle would walk out alive. That pussy Simo would never be able to go through hell week. Just look at him.

I'm surprised that someone who so vehemently admires and defends one 'hero'/soldier/man has so little regard for another, whose feats would be regarded by most as being achieved in much harsher circumstances.

Paul_Hacket

Topper Harley wrote: »

I haven't seen anywhere that directly quotes Kyle making these claims but I have read an article (which I can't find now but will link to if I do find it) that claimed Kyle said he was aware of snipers going to New Orleans to shoot looters but that he did not condone this. And his words were then twisted and repeated to the point where it is just accepted that he did claim to shoot looters.

Maybe you should educate yourself a little before making sweeping claims that this tool never lied:

Kyle was contacted by Brandon Webb, a veteran who had served with him on SEAL Team Three. Webb, now the editor of SOFREP, a Web site covering special-operations forces, invited Kyle and another former SEAL to participate in a taped discussion about life as a special operator. Webb asked Pat Kilbane, an actor, to moderate the discussion. Kyle met them at a bar in San Diego to tape the program.

The session went well. Kilbane told me that he was struck by Kyle’s “aura,” noting that whenever “he walked in the room the dynamic would change, the energy in the room would shift.” Afterward, a larger group went out for dinner, closed the hotel bar, and hung out in Kyle’s suite, drinking until late. The SEALs began telling stories, and Kyle offered a shocking one. In the days after Hurricane Katrina, he said, the law-and-order situation was dire. He and another sniper travelled to New Orleans, set up on top of the Superdome, and proceeded to shoot dozens of armed residents who were contributing to the chaos. Three people shared with me varied recollections of that evening: the first said that Kyle claimed to have shot thirty men on his own; according to the second, the story was that Kyle and the other sniper had shot thirty men between them; the third said that she couldn’t recall specific details.

I just gave you links to three article in national newspapers and magazines which quoted MULTIPLE friends of Kyle stating he made those claims. Did all those people just make those up? And as you admit, the BS about Ventura is in hos book.
Above is from a detailed article in a little magazine known as The New Yorker:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairs

I haven't read his book but as far as I'm aware, none of these claims are in it and his claims about Jesse Ventura are the only one's with any evidence that he actually made these claims.

So we've established he lied about the entire incident with Ventura, yes? That was certainly the finding of the jury in his slander trial, the one where actual evidence was evaluated. Oh, and how come you have nothing to say about his claims to have killed two car jackers? He made this claim to multiple people on multiple occasions.

Go ahead and post some refutations to the evidence posted in the multiple links throughout this thread if you have any. Otherwise I think we can take it that you are have fallen for heaping servings of obvious nonsense spun by a racist little redneck with a gun.

Gatling

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Maybe you should educate yourself a little before making sweeping claims that this tool never lied:

Kyle was contacted by Brandon Webb, a veteran who had served with him on SEAL Team Three. Webb, now the editor of SOFREP, a Web site covering special-operations forces, invited Kyle and another former SEAL to participate in a taped discussion about life as a special operator. Webb asked Pat Kilbane, an actor, to moderate the discussion. Kyle met them at a bar in San Diego to tape the program.

The session went well. Kilbane told me that he was struck by Kyle’s “aura,” noting that whenever “he walked in the room the dynamic would change, the energy in the room would shift.” Afterward, a larger group went out for dinner, closed the hotel bar, and hung out in Kyle’s suite, drinking until late. The SEALs began telling stories, and Kyle offered a shocking one. In the days after Hurricane Katrina, he said, the law-and-order situation was dire. He and another sniper travelled to New Orleans, set up on top of the Superdome, and proceeded to shoot dozens of armed residents who were contributing to the chaos. Three people shared with me varied recollections of that evening: the first said that Kyle claimed to have shot thirty men on his own; according to the second, the story was that Kyle and the other sniper had shot thirty men between them; the third said that she couldn’t recall specific details.
I just gave you links to three article in national newspapers and magazines which quoted MULTIPLE friends of Kyle stating he made those claims. Did all those people just make those up? And as you admit, the BS about Ventura is in hos book.

Above is from a detailed article in a little magazine known as The New Yorker:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairs


Previously you were absolutely certain that Kyle never lied about anything (who was this guy - the first man on earth who never told a lie?). Now you're admitting that yup the fantasies about Ventura was in his book, kind of a contradition there, yeah?

Go ahead and post some refutations to the evidence posted in the multiple links throughout this thread if you have any. Otherwise I think we can take it that you are have fallen for heaping servings of obvious nonsense spun by a racist little redneck with a gun.

I'd take Brandon Webb word over any faux celebrity operators

Topper Harley

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Maybe you should educate yourself a little before making sweeping claims that this tool never lied:

Kyle was contacted by Brandon Webb, a veteran who had served with him on SEAL Team Three. Webb, now the editor of SOFREP, a Web site covering special-operations forces, invited Kyle and another former SEAL to participate in a taped discussion about life as a special operator. Webb asked Pat Kilbane, an actor, to moderate the discussion. Kyle met them at a bar in San Diego to tape the program.

The session went well. Kilbane told me that he was struck by Kyle’s “aura,” noting that whenever “he walked in the room the dynamic would change, the energy in the room would shift.” Afterward, a larger group went out for dinner, closed the hotel bar, and hung out in Kyle’s suite, drinking until late. The SEALs began telling stories, and Kyle offered a shocking one. In the days after Hurricane Katrina, he said, the law-and-order situation was dire. He and another sniper travelled to New Orleans, set up on top of the Superdome, and proceeded to shoot dozens of armed residents who were contributing to the chaos. Three people shared with me varied recollections of that evening: the first said that Kyle claimed to have shot thirty men on his own; according to the second, the story was that Kyle and the other sniper had shot thirty men between them; the third said that she couldn’t recall specific details.
I just gave you links to three article in national newspapers and magazines which quoted MULTIPLE friends of Kyle stating he made those claims. Did all those people just make those up? And as you admit, the BS about Ventura is in hos book.

Above is from a detailed article in a little magazine known as The New Yorker:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairs


Previously you were absolutely certain that Kyle never lied about anything (who was this guy - the first man on earth who never told a lie?). Now you're admitting that yup the fantasies about Ventura was in his book, kind of a contradition there, yeah?

Oh, and how come you have nothing to say about his claims to have killed two car jackers? He made this claim to multiple people on multiple occasions.

Go ahead and post some refutations to the evidence posted in the multiple links throughout this thread if you have any. Otherwise I think we can take it that you are have fallen for heaping servings of obvious nonsense spun by a racist little redneck with a gun.

You must think I'm someone else, I'm not one of the Chris Kyle fanboys. :pac:

I've just yet to see anywhere which has a quote from Kyle saying "I shot 30 looters in New Orleans." Instead it's always, he said Kyle claimed this and that.

Here's what Brandon Webb said:

In early 2012, I had an unexpected conversation with my friend Chris Kyle (author of American Sniper) about the Katrina debacle. I had heard rumblings about Special Operations (mainly SEALs) snipers being deployed to New Orleans to support the effort to restore order. He confirmed the rumors and shared his own intimate knowledge that close contacts of his, many who were apparently still serving on active duty, took leave to work for the controversial PMC (Private Military Company),Blackwater.

Chris went on to tell me that the bulk of the guys he knew directly had racked up over thirty kills between them near and around the Super Dome. I asked him about Rules of Engagement, and asked, “Who were they shooting at,” and he just gave me a big Texas shrug and smile. I figured out really quick that it was 180 grains of due process (usually to the head at 200M).

Again, this is a secondary source but it claims that Kyle knew of people going to New Orleans rather than that he himself was there.

The carjacking shooting story also only ever appears as a secondary source.

Whether or not he actually made these claims, I'm just trying to be objective and until I see definitive evidence that he did, I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon of using them to discredit him.

Paul_Hacket

Again, this is a secondary source but it claims that Kyle knew of people going to New Orleans rather than that he himself was there.

The carjacking shooting story also only ever appears as a secondary source.

Whether or not he actually made these claims, I'm just trying to be objective and until I see definitive evidence that he did, I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon of using them to discredit him.

The car jacking story was told directly to a journalist who was sympathetic to Kyle and told to him on multiple occasions. It was also told to multiple other people and has been widely documented. All of that is documented at the links above as well as here, a magazine story which was written with Kyle's full co-operation and over numerous interviews.

So just to clarify, you find no credibility in Kyle having said this despite the fact that multiple people who were sympathetic to him report him having made this claim? Which is more likely - that he actually said it or that all of these people are making it up?

He made the New Orelans claim in the presensce of two people, one of whom was a journalist, both were also ex-Seals and sympathetic to Kyle. He also told the tale numerous other times to other Seals. Why exactly are all of these comrades of Kyle's lying?

And the Ventura incident is a matter of court record.

You're claim not to be a Kyle "fanboy", so why are you showing a contrarian's degree of scepticism in regard to the mountain of negative evidence about Kyle's absurd claims?

Bill Clinton didn't put any direct quotes about playing sexy games with Monica Lewinsky in his autobiography, do you also disbelieve that they never occurred?

Topper Harley

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

The car jacking story was told directly to a journalist who was sympathetic to Kyle and told to him on multiple occasions. It was also told to multiple other people and has been widely documented. All of that is documented at the links above as well as here, a magazine story which was written with Kyle's full co-operation and over numerous interviews.

So just to clarify, you find no credibility in Kyle having said this despite the fact that multiple people who were sympathetic to him report him having made this claim? Which is more likely - that he actually said it or that all of these people are making it up?

That article tells "a story about Chris Kyle" which contains no quotes from Kyle making these claims but does say:

...I asked him about that story during an interview in his office last year ... He didn’t want to get into specifics about the gas station shooting, but I left that day believing it had happened.

The reporter later highlights the huge amount of evidence that the incident never took place yet still himself believes it happened. Or perhaps, the reporter wants it to have happened because "He was one of the few men in the entire world capable of such a feat." I think the reporter is a bit of a Chris Kyle fanboy.

That same reporter, in another article, claims that when he asked Kyle about the incident he said this:

“You mean the time I shot two guys trying to steal my truck?”...“It’s true,” he said. He proceeded to tell me about that day.

One of the articles claims it happened in 2009 and the other says 2010. It's also worth noting that those articles or any other I have found regarding the incident were written after Kyle's death. I find it hard to take those articles seriously and I get the feeling that the reporter is in fact the one who is a bit of a fantasist.

So which do I think is more likely - that he actually said it or that all of these people are making it up? Honestly, I can't say either way, neither would surprise me.

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

He made the New Orelans claim in the presensce of two people, one of whom was a journalist, both were also ex-Seals and sympathetic to Kyle. He also told the tale numerous other times to other Seals. Why exactly are all of these comrades of Kyle's lying?

Again, the main source of this claim comes from what Brandon Webb, the journalist and ex-SEAL, wrote:

In early 2012, I had an unexpected conversation with my friend Chris Kyle (author of American Sniper) about the Katrina debacle. I had heard rumblings about Special Operations (mainly SEALs) snipers being deployed to New Orleans to support the effort to restore order. He confirmed the rumors and shared his own intimate knowledge that close contacts of his, many who were apparently still serving on active duty, took leave to work for the controversial PMC (Private Military Company),Blackwater.

Chris went on to tell me that the bulk of the guys he knew directly had racked up over thirty kills between them near and around the Super Dome. I asked him about Rules of Engagement, and asked, “Who were they shooting at,” and he just gave me a big Texas shrug and smile. I figured out really quick that it was 180 grains of due process (usually to the head at 200M).

If you read it carefully, Webb says that Kyle claimed to have known about what happened but didn't actually claim to be there. From that, there is more anecdotal evidence that he claimed he personally killed 30 looters.

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

And the Ventura incident is a matter of court record.

I don't question that one at all, after all it has compelling evidence to support it unlike the others.

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

You're claim not to be a Kyle "fanboy", so why are you showing a contrarian's degree of scepticism in regard to the mountain of negative evidence about Kyle's absurd claims?

Because, regarding that mountain of evidence, I value quality over quantity. I didn't set out to defend Chris Kyle, but after reading so many claims that he claimed to have done this and that based purely on anecdotal evidence, it just didn't add up to me.

I see the die-hard Kyle fanboys, and I can see you've noticed them to, as they lose all semblance of reasoning trying to defend him for whatever reason. And then there's the other side, who seem to be more reasonable, yet surprisingly when they see any shred of evidence to support their claims that Kyle wasn't quite the 'hero' and nice guy he is portrayed as, they jump on it without first questioning and verifying it beyond doubt.

I don't claim to know exactly what Kyle actually claimed to have done but based on the huge amount of anecdotal evidence and lack of concrete evidence, I have my doubts.

Paul_Hacket

Topper Harley wrote: »

That article tells "a story about Chris Kyle" which contains no quotes from Kyle making these claims but does say:


The reporter later highlights the huge amount of evidence that the incident never took place yet still himself believes it happened. Or perhaps, the reporter wants it to have happened because "He was one of the few men in the entire world capable of such a feat." I think the reporter is a bit of a Chris Kyle fanboy.

That same reporter, in another article, claims that when he asked Kyle about the incident he said this:


One of the articles claims it happened in 2009 and the other says 2010. It's also worth noting that those articles or any other I have found regarding the incident were written after Kyle's death. I find it hard to take those articles seriously and I get the feeling that the reporter is in fact the one who is a bit of a fantasist.

So which do I think is more likely - that he actually said it or that all of these people are making it up? Honestly, I can't say either way, neither would surprise me.



Again, the main source of this claim comes from what Brandon Webb, the journalist and ex-SEAL, wrote:


If you read it carefully, Webb says that Kyle claimed to have known about what happened but didn't actually claim to be there. From that, there is more anecdotal evidence that he claimed he personally killed 30 looters.



I don't question that one at all, after all it has compelling evidence to support it unlike the others.



Because, regarding that mountain of evidence, I value quality over quantity. I didn't set out to defend Chris Kyle, but after reading so many claims that he claimed to have done this and that based purely on anecdotal evidence, it just didn't add up to me.

I see the die-hard Kyle fanboys, and I can see you've noticed them to, as they lose all semblance of reasoning trying to defend him for whatever reason. And then there's the other side, who seem to be more reasonable, yet surprisingly when they see any shred of evidence to support their claims that Kyle wasn't quite the 'hero' and nice guy he is portrayed as, they jump on it without first questioning and verifying it beyond doubt.

I don't claim to know exactly what Kyle actually claimed to have done but based on the huge amount of anecdotal evidence and lack of concrete evidence, I have my doubts.

You've really gone to ridiculous extremes to ignore the reality of this situation. Why are you pretending there is only one article and only one journalist who Kyle made these claims to? I've linked to numerous articles above, including a very detailed one in the New Yorker where Kyle is shown to have made these claims numerous times. I suppose the journalist who he made the claim to in front of an independent witness, both of whom are also Navy Seals is just a liar too right?

I guess your logic makes sense, after all, it's not like Kyle was exposed in open court as being a fabricator to such an absurd degree that his estate are paying a $1.8 million fine due to the nonsense he spewed. Yup, makes total sense that we should believe a guy like that and obviously decide that all his friends and aquaintances are lying for some bizarre, unexplained reason.

The Venura bullsh!t was stated by Kyle himself both on a radio show and on an interview on Fox News. Yet the incident never happened - it was a complete fabrication. His estate couldn't find a single witness to back up his side of the story. What kind of fantasist do you have to be to think that you can get away with pretending to have punched a well known figure like Jesse Ventura in a public bar? Oh yeah, a delusional tool who considers all Arabs and Muslims to be "savages".

But of course, you're not a fanboy.

Topper Harley

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

But of course, you're not a fanboy.

Have you even read any of my posts? I'm not saying that he definitely didn't make any of the claims. I'm specifically saying I don't know due to the fact that the mountains of evidence are based on hearsay.

Paul_Hacket

Topper Harley wrote: »

Have you even read any of my posts? I'm not saying that he definitely didn't make any of the claims. I'm specifically saying I don't know due to the fact that the mountains of evidence are based on hearsay.

When multiple journalists say that he made his claims directly to them it is no longer hearsay.

Which is more likely - that numerous people who are otherwise sympathetic to him are all lying and making up the same stories for some bizarre reason? Or that the guy who has been shown in a court of law to be a ridiculous fantasist did actually make these claims? There's a point where giving someone the benefit of the doubt becomes absurd.

Topper Harley

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

When multiple journalists say that he made his claims directly to them it is no longer hearsay.

Which is more likely - that numerous people who are otherwise sympathetic to him are all lying and making up the same stories for some bizarre reason? Or that the guy who has been shown in a court of law to be a ridiculous fantasist did actually make these claims? There's a point where giving someone the benefit of the doubt becomes absurd.

So you admit that there is doubt?

And that New Yorker article you mentioned took its information from the article previously refered to. It's just recycling the same inconclusive anecdotal evidence that he apparently told friends.

I'm just trying to look at it objectively. If some conclusive evidence comes to light, I'll fully accept that he made the claims but in the absence of such evidence, I'll reserve judgement.