Feelings about dogs sleeping outside for winter?

borderlinemeath

Jezek wrote: »

The mechanics of how we maintain/lose heat (thermoregulation) mean that the smaller the animal the easier and faster it loses heat. If i recall correctly, this happens to the square of the size difference - e.g. a dog the third the size of a lab loses heat nine times as fast. You might reconsider now and see that size does matter.

As Muddypaws says, greyhounds, which are fairly big dogs, have a very thin coat and cannot maintain heat for long at all. Other large breed such as boxers and staffies can also have very thin coats with more muscle mass than body fat and they too suffer.

Besides the fact that I'm sure DBB was not just referring to their physical needs but their mental needs also. Dogs are companion animals. They need to feel part of a family and for that they feel more safe and secure when they are closer to their human family in the house. Of course there's exceptions to this rule, there's always dogs that prefer to sleep outdoors, but I would guarantee they have a huge amount of interaction with their humans during waking hours.

DBB

Graces7 wrote: »

Interesting as I always thought this meant breeds that have thicker coats which tend to be bigger dogs.

Plenty of the small breed have profuse coats, are double-coated etc... overheating is as big an enemy to them!

Jezek wrote: »

The mechanics of how we maintain/lose heat (thermoregulation) mean that the smaller the animal the easier and faster it loses heat. If i recall correctly, this happens to the square of the size difference - e.g. a dog the third the size of a lab loses heat nine times as fast. You might reconsider now and see that size does matter.

I am reasonably au fait with the laws of thermodynamics and size-to-volume ratios... heat retention is not what I'm talking about, as I said in my posts already, so I don't need to reconsider anything, thanks
What I'm talking about is that being warmer than a small dog is no consolation whatsoever to a big dog when it means he's being left in isolation outside the house, looking in at the pampered pooch beside the fire. A big dog's need for social contact is just the same as a small dog's, and they suffer because some owners think they should be outside just because they're big. I don't believe that many owners who force their dogs to live outside are thinking about thermoregulation, they're thinking about the muddy footprints, the shedding hair, and the nice ornaments being knocked over. That is the angle I've been coming from since the start of this thread.

borderlinemeath

My rescue was dumped in a car park in spring 2011, estimated age 6-8 months. Probably a failed hunting dog. (for those that know him, he's very vocal with telling the birds he's coming) That meant he most likely spent his first few months of life sleeping outside in the arctic big freeze of 2010. :( He will never spend another night outside ever. Never, ever. His favourite place in the world is in our bed, on my pillow to be precise

Jezek

DBB wrote: »

Plenty of the small breed have profuse coats, are double-coated etc... overheating is as big an enemy to them!



I am reasonably au fait with the laws of thermodynamics and size-to-volume ratios... heat retention is not what I'm talking about, as I said in my posts already, so I don't need to reconsider anything, thanks
What I'm talking about is that being warmer than a small dog is no consolation whatsoever to a big dog when it means he's being left in isolation outside the house, looking in at the pampered pooch beside the fire. A big dog's need for social contact is just the same as a small dog's, and they suffer because some owners think they should be outside just because they're big. I don't believe that many owners who force their dogs to live outside are thinking about thermoregulation, they're thinking about the muddy footprints, the shedding hair, and the nice ornaments being knocked over. That is the angle I've been coming from since the start of this thread.

I misunderstood you, apologies. I thought you were saying they can both stay outside. I made the point about SA ratios etc to point out that it might be more dangerous to leave small dogs inside, that's what I wanted you to consider. It seems I was preaching to the choir.

Of course in my house the dogs sleep in the bed with me.

Par1

Our weather in Ireland doesn't get anywhere near cold enough for dogs to be a problem, the reason some dogs are kept indoors is because they are spoiled brats and mostly more intelligent than we give them credit for. If a dog wont step outside in the rain does that mean they are afraid of water?..no it is because they know how to chance their arm (or paw in this case).

Dogs have evolved over generations and acclimatised to the weather, i never recall the wolf looking to sleep indoors?...except in little red riding hood maybe.

Im not been a killjoy here people but there is many unfortunate humans that sleep outdoors in this country so it is certainly not a problem for a dog. I appreciate different breeds of dog have different coats but that is down to breeding - and also people who supply demand for these breeds, the fact of the matter is people are to blame for the dogs having adapted coats (through breeding). Anyone who has to put a silly coat on a dog has to realise that what they are doing is right but really it should of not got to that stage.

I agree that it is easier said than done to have dogs with suitable natural coats but the fact of the matter is that some of the breeders in this country should not be allowed to keep a goldfish never mind breed dogs. I would challenge anyone who says that a dogs coat should look a certain way, be brushed a particular way or be washed so many times a week. Dogs should be kept natural as nature intended and overall they should be well looked after and be shown a level of comfort suitable for any animal.....thank you.

lazeedaisy

Our 11 year old (nearly 12) greyhound sleeps on the sofa all night, loves sunning herself when the sun is out no matter how cold. Just a tad too old for the stairs,

medium size spaniel setter mix sleeps in a dog bed in the bedroom, loves the cold

Small terrier type sleeps under the covers in the bed, he feels the cold awfully, waiting for a coat from Amazon for him, he is currently nestled up to the Stove! But he has recently moved to the wardrobe for some reason, after starting under the duvet.

The farmer next door has a lab out 24/7 in a very small run, not a farm dog at all, small kennell for sleeping in.

It's horses for courses,

We took in a farm dog who was outside all his life, his owner died suddenly and he moved to ours, for the greyhound we think. Every morning the poor sod would take longer standing thanks to his arthritis, he moved into the house, where he lasted for 15 months after a cancer diagnosis,

Not being from a farming background I do understand dogs are working dogs and mostly kept out all night. Ours are pets we rescued,

DBB

Par1 wrote: »

Our weather in Ireland doesn't get anywhere near cold enough for dogs to be a problem, the reason some dogs are kept indoors is because they are spoiled brats and mostly more intelligent than we give them credit for. If a dog wont step outside in the rain does that mean they are afraid of water?..no it is because they know how to chance their arm (or paw in this case).

Par1,
Coming into the Animals and Pets forum and referring to indoor dogs as "spoiled brats" is really, seriously stirring it, as is bringing the situation with the homeless into it. I'd suggest that you try to make your point in a way that some people might take you seriously. Perhaps take a few days to read other threads and get a feel for the forum before bursting in of a Saturday eve to offend every poster in the place.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Mo60

I have friends who lived in England for many years and kept 2 dogs and a cat indoors. Since returning to Ireland any pets they have had have been kept outside.:mad:

As I type this I am surrounded by 5 dogs and 3 cats and would never have it any other way. After all, they are pets and I enjoy their company as much as I hope they enjoy mine.

Willfarman

In rural areas this is extremely irresponsible to not ensure a dog is restrained and whereabouts known at all times. Dog can travel 10 miles in the night, kill or maim and terrorise sheep or worse and be home on the doorstep with an innocent head before daylight..

Kevin McCloud

Speaking from a farmers point of view all my dogs sleep in their own house.

Mountainsandh

I have a shih-tzu cross and he sleeps in the bed with me.

I hate to think of dogs sleeping outside, but I do think some larger dogs that have been used to it from puppyhood have no problem with it (in good shelter and comfort).

OP I would think the dog getting a bit older would be a good enough reason to take it in, I'm no expert but it is so common to hear of arthritis in old dogs etc... if that can be avoided or the onset delayed by bringing him in, I would do it, even if it means changing his routine.

Deranged96

Two big strong dogs- both outside 24/7

They sleep in a shed with a stone floor and a felt room.

I was once made feel guilty for that by a preachy woman who made it out like I was inflicting pain and misery on my dogs.... If I could turn back the clock I'd tear strips off her, wasn't self-assured enough back then.

Anyway their shed is on the farm so their barking doesn't annoy the neighbours, my favourite part of the day is going down and letting them out in the mornings they have free reign during the day (can't get out on the road) and no matter how bad the weather gets it doesn't impinge their fun. There was a period however during the summer we were keeping one of the dogs in the shed until the evening time because the heat was messing with him.

ferretone

Our last dog was a Dobermann, and wouldn't have lasted a night outside, even in summer, despite not being a "little dog". Our new one is a mixed breed of GSD/Husky/? , and despite having a thick, double coat and tough, stocky body-type, which mean she always seems to be toasty warm, I wouldn't dream of leaving her outside on her own at any time.

Dogs need companionship: this new one craves it no less than our shivery Dobie. In the cases where farm dogs curl up together in the barn, ready to join the farmer with gusto in the morning, that's perfectly fine and understandable. Ditto for the bunch of sled-dogs who live together and work together along with their human trainer, for whom it would not be practicable to keep the whole team inside, but who are all happy and toasty together in their kennel. But I do feel very sorry for the lone, so-called-pet dogs, who have been compelled to sleep alone in a kennel for years.

They have come to terms with it in a way, in part I think they have sort of "shut down". Their expectations of life have narrowed to the point where they simply don't expect to be really happy and fulfilled, but sort of drift through life, tolerating whatever happens, as it doesn't pay to get your hopes up, when they are permanently dashed. I don't think that's anthropomorphism as such, just a human way of seeing a very sad and real dog problem we have in this country

designbydan

Have two dogs. A red nosed pitbull x who is med-large size and a little jack russell/chihuahua x small size obviously.

Both are indoor dogs, I couldn't imagine leaving either of them outside regardless of the temperature.

But The pitbull is 9 now and shivers like crazy when not under a blanked or infront of a fire. She nearly needs to get pushed outside to do her business at night before going to bed. In fairness she's a very short haired dog, both are actually, so I think that does make a huge difference.

Also regarding big dogs outside small dogs inside. . . I think it's to do with the smaller ones generally getting colder faster too, their bodies are so low to the ground that even just walking on grass can get them soaked and literally freeze their stomach (I seen this happen before to a mini dachshund who was outside for only 5 mins! )

muddypaws

ferretone wrote: »

Dogs need companionship: this new one craves it no less than our shivery Dobie. In the cases where farm dogs curl up together in the barn, ready to join the farmer with gusto in the morning, that's perfectly fine and understandable. Ditto for the bunch of sled-dogs who live together and work together along with their human trainer, for whom it would not be practicable to keep the whole team inside, but who are all happy and toasty together in their kennel. But I do feel very sorry for the lone, so-called-pet dogs, who have been compelled to sleep alone in a kennel for years.

(

Ahem All of my sled dogs live inside, at the moment there are 12 working (or retired) sled dogs in my living room, all lounging around on the furniture, crates or floor :eek:

I do have friends who keep their dogs outside, but as you say, in a large group, with company. One couple have 27 huskies, I feel sorry for him every night, the dogs are in fantastic runs during the day, they have built amazing shelters for them, with different levels, but at 10.30 every night he goes out and puts them into their beds in their kennel block. I've been there on cold, wet nights, and he's sitting in at the fire, all nice and warm and cosy, and has to go out and put the dogs to bed - every single night. I think thats probably why mine live in the house, I'm too lazy to do that, I open the back door at bed time, they go out without me, then back in for the night.

BMmeow

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies, I just want to clarify, the dog sits in his basket in the conservatory all day every day and can freely go into the garden from there. And we often bring him in to the living room/kitchen to sit with us ect. At night time he seems to want to go out to bed himself, sometimes choosing to get up from the living room and go to bed in his kennel.

Im purely wondering if at 10 its too cold out there during winter or if he can feel the cold? Is a Labrador's coat sufficient for keeping warm in Irish weather?

Id hate for him to be freezing at night when he sleeps. But if its ok for him, I don't want to disturb the routine and the way things are now.

DBB

Would you consider getting him a Snugglesafe microwaveable heat pad? I think someone linked to it already?
They are great from the point of view that you can stick it under their bedding at one end of the bed, giving them the choice of lying on the warm end or the cool end of the bed
I have an elderly little dog here (not that she acts it in the slightest) who I do this for even though she lives inside, as she definitely doesn't retain the heat as well as she used to especially on a cold day after a walk. It makes me smile to see her looking as if she's saying "huh, I don't need THAT thing in my bed", then over the course of the next hour she inches herself steadily closer and closer to it, probably hoping I won't notice and call her a big wuss:D
You might also look into supplementing your old fella's diet with fish oils, preferably not cod liver oil, which is okay from time to time but should not be given to often. A tin of sardines a couple of times a week should make a difference not only to his old joints, but to his brain function too.

BMmeow

DBB wrote: »

Would you consider getting him a Snugglesafe microwaveable heat pad? I think someone linked to it already?
They are great from the point of view that you can stick it under their bedding at one end of the bed, giving them the choice of lying on the warm end or the cool end of the bed
I have an elderly little dog here (not that she acts it in the slightest) who I do this for even though she lives inside, as she definitely doesn't retain the heat as well as she used to especially on a cold day after a walk. It makes me smile to see her looking as if she's saying "huh, I don't need THAT thing in my bed", then over the course of the next hour she inches herself steadily closer and closer to it, probably hoping I won't notice and call her a big wuss:D
You might also look into supplementing your old fella's diet with fish oils, preferably not cod liver oil, which is okay from time to time but should not be given to often. A tin of sardines a couple of times a week should make a difference not only to his old joints, but to his brain function too.

Oh I think ill definitely get one! Our dog doesn't look or act his age at all, do you find it safe enough to use, if the dog decided to chew at it?! And as for the fish, Ive never heard of that!! Do you give it to your dog? Does it upset his stomach or anything? I will definitely try this if its beneficial! I would just imagine my dog turning his nose up at it because of the smell, and he can be quite picky!

DBB

BMmeow wrote: »

Oh I think ill definitely get one! Our dog doesn't look or act his age at all, do you find it safe enough to use, if the dog decided to chew at it?! And as for the fish, Ive never heard of that!! Do you give it to your dog? Does it upset his stomach or anything? I will definitely try this if its beneficial! I would just imagine my dog turning his nose up at it because of the smell, and he can be quite picky!

A picky lab? :eek::eek::eek:
Are you sure he has read the Labrador Handbook?
I think it's a good plan to introduce new things slowly, and if you feel his tummy will act up perhaps start him off on a more benign oily fish, perhaps a tin of salmon? Apparently you're better off giving them fish that has not been preserved in vegetable oil: you can give them fish in brine if you rinse the brine off a bit, or my own dogs are rather partial to sardines in tomato sauce
You could also opt for buying the senior/old dog version of whatever dry food you have him on... these genuinely contain more stuff that's good for oldies.
As for chewing the Snugglesafe, I've never come across the problem.. The pad itself very hard plastic. Does anyone else know of any dogs that have chewed them? If the worst comes to the worst, the gel filling in them is non-toxic, but they just don't seem to attract dogs to chew them.

ABajaninCork

My husband had a Scottie who absolutely refused to come inside. Not even when the weather was really bad in 2010 would the dog come in. So my FiL used to put hot water bottles in the dog's kennel, and heat stones in an old lemonade bottle to keep him warm. Dog lived until he was 19. And he had all his teeth which were in great condition - Snow white they were!

Spaniel heaven

Brought my spaniels in during the last cold snap within 10 mins they were wining at the door to get out. If a dog is sick or pushing on in years they should be brought in but if the dog house is warm and the dogs are warm and sleepy in the mornings I happily leave them out.

cocker5

It’s my personal opinion, but I just don’t see the point of having a dog if he / she are not part of the family and by that I mean living indoors and treated as a member of the family unit.
My cocker spaniel sleeps in a very comfy bed that’s backs onto the radiator, he also has full run of my downstairs 24/7 and upstairs when we’re home.

No my house doesn’t stink of dog (neither does he infact), my couches have throws on them to help keep them clean (washed twice weekly as are his blankets etc.)…
he’s as happy as a pig in sh*t to be honest! He is a massive part of our family and I wouldn’t have It any other way.

So regardless of age I think 99% dogs belong inside…. with their family.

BMmeow

ok everyone going a tad off topic, the question isn't whether or not dogs belong inside or your definition of dogs being a part of the family. The question is simply if a lab or similar sized/coated breed finds the irish winter weather cold when supplied with appropriate bedding, blankets and shelter.

cocker5

BMmeow wrote: »

ok everyone going a tad off topic, the question isn't whether or not dogs belong inside or your definition of dogs being a part of the family. The question is simply if a lab or similar sized/coated breed finds the irish winter weather cold when supplied with appropriate bedding, blankets and shelter.

Yes Im sure the dog finds the Irish winters cold (not as cold as a human but still) - its common sense to be honest

Graces7

[QUOTE=DBB;93339228]Plenty of the small breed have profuse coats, are double-coated etc... overheating is as big an enemy to them!



I am reasonably au fait with the laws of thermodynamics and size-to-volume ratios... heat retention is not what I'm talking about, as I said in my posts already, so I don't need to reconsider anything, thanks
What I'm talking about is that being warmer than a small dog is no consolation whatsoever to a big dog when it means he's being left in isolation outside the house, looking in at the pampered pooch beside the fire. A big dog's need for social contact is just the same as a small dog's, and they suffer because some owners think they should be outside just because they're big. I don't believe that many owners who force their dogs to live outside are thinking about thermoregulation, they're thinking about the muddy footprints, the shedding hair, and the nice ornaments being knocked over. That is the angle I've been coming from since the start of this thread.[/QUOTE]

Oh I agree with you; I was trying to rationalise the thinking that some will keep their dogs out. Cannot be done of course,, rationalising I mean..

My collie was an outdoor dog before we had her after her first years shut in a shed 16/24. When I took her in I acclimatised her gradually. Now there is a large open ended shed at this house, thick with sawdust and she loves it in there but they are always in the house at night. Muddy footprints are part of the deal with dogs.