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Government's homelessness forum

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    #62
    Venus In Furs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    OP - the only reason this is being prioritised is because of the man's proximity to Govt.
    Didn't a homeless man freeze to death last winter or the year before?
    Wasn't another homeless crushed to death, when the bin he was sleeping in was emptied into the lorry?
    This is what I don't understand. Why not the same outrage towards homelessness all the time by the shrieking brigade?


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    #63
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Was waiting for the bus this evening when this guy came down the street, pretty much dragged a guy who was sitting on the street wrapped up in a sleeping bag, yelling at him for begging on his patch even tho the guy didn't look like he needed to beg and was very aggressive towards the other man, then just walked off after he had him move. Can't be easy for them!


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    #64
    Venus In Furs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    jank wrote: »
    Homelessness is a worldwide phenomena not an Irish one. If someone has a silver bullet to over power personal choice and willpower then we are all ears. I listened to a podcast on RTE the other day when Paddy o'Gorman went around the place talking to some homeless people. Sounds bites like "Ireland is worse than a 3rd world country", "Enda and Co. actually want them all dead" etc.etc.
    Seriously? FFS. I've seen stuff on water charges discussions too like "This country is becoming like North Korea". These people cannot be reasoned with, but they shout the loudest unfortunately.
    I wonder what proportion of the people who are blaming the government and other people for the homelessness problem actually help homeless people themselves. Very very small I'd say.


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    #65
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,178 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Did anyone hear Minister Kelly on Morning Ireland this morning?

    Embarrassing interview, he hadn't a clue about anything he was asked and gave rehearsed answers that basically said nothing. Also refused to answer a question completely.

    Worth podcasting it just to hear how incompetent he sounded. If the homelessness problem is left to him to sort, I fear for the outcome.

    http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_morningireland.xml

    Click on the one titled "Govt pledges homes for all rough sleepers by Christmas", 5th Dec


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    #66
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Venus In Furs wrote: »
    Seriously? FFS. I've seen stuff on water charges discussions too like "This country is becoming like North Korea". These people cannot be reasoned with, but they shout the loudest unfortunately.
    I wonder what proportion of the people who are blaming the government and other people for the homelessness problem actually help homeless people themselves. Very very small I'd say.


    Its up on they rte website, should be easy to find. I agree with you on the last point. Personal responsibility seems to be non existent. Take for example John Corrie who died this week. I don't wish anyone ill harm and hate to to speak negatively about the dead but did anyone in the media or elsewhere even utter the remote possibility about his own role in his early demise and not just blame everything else from society to Enda?

    At the end of the day, the only person fully responsible for your own well being is yourself. Society can help if you fall down, but only you can make yourself stand on your own two feet.


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    #67
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    jank wrote: »
    Its up on they rte website, should be easy to find. I agree with you on the last point. Personal responsibility seems to be non existent. Take for example John Corrie who died this week. I don't wish anyone ill harm and hate to to speak negatively about the dead but did anyone in the media or elsewhere even utter the remote possibility about his own role in his early demise and not just blame everything else from society to Enda?

    At the end of the day, the only person fully responsible for your own well being is yourself. Society can help if you fall down, but only you can make yourself stand on your own two feet.

    I understand and agree with you around personal responsibility , but I think too people have to consider what choices people have to go with , we often know little of the individuals background , whether or not a significant trauma was present at a young age.

    Often the choice to use heroin or engage in a similar behaviour might be an attempt to escape or avoid something traumatic from childhood or youth and it may seem to be at the time the best of choice available.


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    #68
    yipeeeee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭yipeeeee


    corner of hells wrote: »
    I understand and agree with you around personal responsibility , but I think too people have to consider what choices people have to go with , we often know little of the individuals background , whether or not a significant trauma was present at a young age.

    Often the choice to use heroin or engage in a similar behaviour might be an attempt to escape or avoid something traumatic from childhood or youth and it may seem to be at the time the best of choice available.

    Absolutely.

    But is enda Kenny to blame for everyone's bad childhood or experience in life?

    There is a large proportion of let's say not well up on the ways of the world and just "want to burn the dail down" and "have enda shot" which I read.

    These people offer nothing constructive in life ever.


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    #69
    Soft Falling Rain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭Soft Falling Rain


    corner of hells wrote: »
    Raise rent allowance , invest in the treatment of mental health and addiction totether.
    Engage with young people before they leave children's services .

    If only such suggestions were prioritised and pushed. Homeless services themselves are guilty of poor strategic goals.

    Homelessness can never be solved, but there are ways to prevent it, and to make it less of a horrific experience.


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    #70
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Venus In Furs wrote: »
    This is what I don't understand. Why not the same outrage towards homelessness all the time by the shrieking brigade?

    I think maybe Govt. are using this also as an opportunity to score some sorely-needed points in opinion polls.
    In another week, some other 'emergency' will vie for public attention and the homeless issue will quietly slip away.

    Same as it ever was, same as it ever was...


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    #71
    yipeeeee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭yipeeeee


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    I think maybe Govt. are using this also as an opportunity to score some sorely-needed points in opinion polls.
    In another week, some other 'emergency' will vie for public attention and the homeless issue will quietly slip away.

    Same as it ever was, same as it ever was...

    And if they didn't do something they would be worst.

    Can't win, politics is ds complex.


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    #72
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    3million!?

    http://www.homelesshub.ca/about-homelessness/homelessness-101/how-many-people-are-homeless-canada

    There are many articles disagreeing with you, have you any links for the 3 million/10% of the population? Most are citing 30k on any given night.

    The homeless population of Canada is nowhere near 3 million.


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    #73
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    yipeeeee wrote: »
    And if they didn't do something they would be worst.

    Can't win, politics is ds complex.

    And who is advising them to do nothing?
    No, I am critical and skeptical of Enda spending a night with homeless volunteers (with his security team in tow) and then to hear that he (Enda) had to be told not to step on a needle and that he wasn't doing it for publicity: this was from a radio interview with a homeless charity volunteer. There were no homeless people since FG came into 'power'?

    This all seems too reminiscent of The Wire S5.


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    #74
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,158 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    It's crazy how little money a problem like this takes. I know it's a lot, but I mean in comparison to how much the country spends on stuff.

    When Delores what'sherface in Limerick won the €120 million lottery i remember thinking that she had won enough that she could get rid of homelessness and still be fcuking loaded.

    An extra few million a year to homeless charities could help so many people and it's a drop in the national budget.


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    #75
    Venus In Furs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    I think maybe Govt. are using this also as an opportunity to score some sorely-needed points in opinion polls.
    I disagree - I think they're just under pressure to be seen to be doing something, because of the mob. There's already enough rage towards them due to IW.
    I don't think they'd be naive enough to think this one gesture will turn people around.


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    #76
    bodhrandude
    Registered Users Posts: 12,448 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    I started a thread last year or the year before in AH about a homeless guy dying in Dublin, he was a Eastern European fellah, the government didn't bat an eyelid about it, its funny now that they are reacting to this years unfortunate demise, perhaps its something to do with practically being on Leinster House's doorstep.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



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    #77
    InReality
    Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭InReality


    I'm a bit conflicted on this. On the one hand its good that he is trying to do something - I work in the civil service and am astonished how hard it is to change anything or do anything even if your a senior govt minister , and on the principle that something is better than nothing.
    On the other hand it sounds daft and a bit of a stunt.What homeless people need is pretty much detailed in a Australian trial of a one on one support service. A person can ring and get crisis access and personal attention whenever they need it. Its essentially a mental health issue with help provided with like a concierge type level of attention to each person. Nothing less is much use.


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    #78
    yipeeeee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭yipeeeee


    Grayson wrote: »
    It's crazy how little money a problem like this takes. I know it's a lot, but I mean in comparison to how much the country spends on stuff.

    When Delores what'sherface in Limerick won the €120 million lottery i remember thinking that she had won enough that she could get rid of homelessness and still be fcuking loaded. O

    An extra few million a year to homeless charities could help so many people and it's a drop in the national budget.

    Its a global problem that no govt can solve.

    There has been billions spent here trying.

    As I said that poor man sold 2 houses bought for him and left accommodation of his own choice supplied by the govt.

    What more could have been done?


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    #79
    Venus In Furs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    yipeeeee wrote: »
    Its a global problem that no govt can solve.

    There has been billions spent here trying.

    As I said that poor man sold 2 houses bought for him and left accommodation of his own choice supplied by the govt.

    What more could have been done?
    And that poor man who was set on fire and burned to death in the Phoenix Park when sleeping rough - coincidentally, pretty much exactly a year ago (can't link) - he actually had a house, and savings. Maybe it's a case that some people just have to be physically forced into a shelter/hospital, but I don't think that's possible.


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    #80
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,178 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Forcing an adult to do something they don't want to do, that opens up another whoel can of worms.


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    #81
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Soft Falling Rain wrote: »
    If only such suggestions were prioritised and pushed. Homeless services themselves are guilty of poor strategic goals.

    Homelessness can never be solved, but there are ways to prevent it, and to make it less of a horrific experience.

    A homeless service can only work with whats available , if you have have an individual with extreme mental ill health all you can do is hope he will engage with services , you cant force anyone to do anything , at most you are looking for strong interagency action, relevant case supports and so on.


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    #82
    John.Icy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,013 ✭✭✭John.Icy


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    1) The government obviously scrambling to save face and votes. Enda feeding people on the streets all of a sudden......

    This is quite the popular opinion the last while regards anything the government does.

    What do you want? The government to shut up shop and do NOTHING for the next few months just to satisfy you and to not appear to be buying votes?

    Flippin' heck, you lot complain that the government aren't doing enough or listening to the people, and when the government do respond, you're angry because you think they're buying votes!

    Oh Ireland.


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    #83
    Hitchens
    Registered Users Posts: 7,988 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-businesses-object-to-plan-for-homeless-shelter-654506.html

    NIMBY :eek:


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