Government's homelessness forum

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corner of hells wrote: »

Grace the population of Canada is about 35 million , there couldn't possibly be 3 million homeless , we have less than four thousand homeless here.

According to the Canadian Homelessness Research Network ( CHRN) and the Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness the figure in 2013 was 30,000. So the proportions versus Ireland are quite similar.

Soft Falling Rain

It sums up the government's ignorance on the issue when you have a politician declaring that all rough sleepers will be off the streets within a week. LOL at the one in particular who threw out the old chestnut of "sure look at all the property NAMA have."

I'd rather a politician keep his mouth shut rather than come out with such an idiotic soundbyte that HE KNOWS will not happen.

Manach

I'd read previous studies on the US approach to homelessness in their urban areas.
Funding can and does help in some cases. However beyond a certain amount, more funding does not help. This is in part due to a variety of issues, partially due to personal circumstances of the homeless people and as well due to the organisations tasked to assist. Using public monies for the benefit of the agencies themselves is not unique to Ireland.

This approach my the minister sees to be short-termism so as to be perceived to be doing something / anything to address the issue and more related to political objectives than much else.

Venus In Furs

yipeeeee wrote: »

you had the usual people on here not missing an opportunity to blame the govt and bring water charges into it.

I even saw comments like burn the dail down and enda should be shot.

There is just so much wrong with peoples attitude in Ireland today.

Exactly. You can bring a horse to water and all that...
The "Other people should be doing something but I'm somehow exempt from examining what I'm doing myself" crowd really annoy me. They don't appear to put any thought into things at all.
There are homeless services, addiction support services, mental health services - perhaps they need more funding for sure. But it is simply unhelpful to keep personal agency entirely out of the picture. For sure, it's not exactly "choice" when the person is mentally ill, from an abusive/impoverished background etc but an adult simply cannot be forced to take an olive branch. Ultimately they are still an adult who makes their own decisions, whatever drives those decisions.

gormdubhgorm

A number of things really annoy me about this whole issue:

1) The government obviously scrambling to save face and votes. Enda feeding people on the streets all of a sudden......

2) The government opposition cynically scrambling to make political capital out of Corries death near Leinster House.

3) The media jumping all over the issue because it suits the time of year

4) The homeless person Corrie consistently refused assistance/shelter. So the incident that sparked this would not have been avoided even if services were up to top notch. There is a real irony in that for me.

To be completely honest all of this makes me less inclined to give money to people on the streets and I used to occasionally.

Venus In Furs

But if the government didn't appear to be doing something they'd be lambasted too.

anncoates

NIMAN wrote: »

Think I heard this mentioned on the news.

AS for the new places that will be opened for Xmas, are the Gov going to provide security for them too, so users can feel safe in them?

If I was homeless , I'd probably take my chances on the street as well if the other option was to sleep in a shelter.

Kevin McCloud

anncoates wrote: »

If I was homeless , I'd probably take my chances on the street as well if the other option was to sleep in a shelter.

One night out in minus degree temperatures and you wouldn't be long heading indoors with the tail between your legs.

anncoates

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

One night out in minus degree temperatures and you wouldn't be long heading indoors with the tail between your legs.

Like your man in the news did?

Kevin McCloud

anncoates wrote: »

Like your man in the news did?

Byran Dobson is it?

anncoates

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Byran Dobson is it?

HI hat.

dlouth15

i would like to know a bit more about the basic services involved in homelessness. Perhaps someone knowledgeable could help here.

I think there are probably a lot of people, though not homeless, nevertheless are quite close. All that needs to happen is that lose their job then run out of money before they find another. Rents are high and many landlords don't accept welfare recipients. Rent allowance is slow in coming and often doesn't cover the sorts of rents being asked for. And there's rules saying that you can only top up rents by a limited amount.

For whatever reason I think it is clear that many will find themselves in a situation where they can't afford accommodation.

Now homeless shelters will keep you off the streets, but where do you go after that? What are the services that take someone from the homeless shelter and get them back on their feet, working and no longer reliant on the State?

What would you do in such a situation? Let us assume that you don't can't rely on your family for support for whatever reason.

yipeeeee

The thing is there is homeless people in every city and country in the world.

I hear people saying its a disgrace in this day and age that enda is allowing homeless people in Ireland.

Like enda has the winning formula to solve a global problem that every govt can't even solve themselves.

People and their mindset fascinate me.

I think a good few Irish people have no concept of the world outside of Ireland.

Probably blind igorance in their part.

VinLieger

People complaining about the government holding the forum as a stunt etc are the exact same people who would be complaining if they had done nothing at all

jank

Homelessness is a worldwide phenomena not an Irish one. If someone has a silver bullet to over power personal choice and willpower then we are all ears. I listened to a podcast on RTE the other day when Paddy o'Gorman went around the place talking to some homeless people. Sounds bites like "Ireland is worse than a 3rd world country", "Enda and Co. actually want them all dead" etc.etc. These hysterical comments were not challenged by the state broadcaster, which I found a little bizarre. However, here is the thing. They did a show the previous day about the reinstatement of the Christmas Bonus which was paid out last thursday I think. An extra 25% for many. The people they interviewed, most of them were going to spend the money on Christmas toys for the Grandkids. Yet in almost the same breath complained about having nothing for water tax. Eh, a little priority please! They also mentioned that they were going to march on the 10th of December against the Water Tax. Paddy o'Gorman then remarked that he found a trend where there was a 'new' protest movement in the unemployed now a days that was not there before. How about mention that almost 100,000 jobs have been created the last 3 1/2 years..? Nah we can't have a good news positive story from the national broadcaster!!

Paddy O'Gorman always does these street interviews. If he is not listening to some bird form the labour exchange he is found around the four courts getting a ear full of some hard pressed junkie. All in good fun of course but I have no idea what the point of them are.

My point? Ireland and the media (RTE and thejournal.ie are you listening?) needs to put away the self flagilation whip and get its head out of its ass. Countries have problems, Ireland is no different. The way to tackle them is not short term populism, its through a strategy via long term sustainable economic growth and transparent accountable public or private bodies tasked with responsibility for the issues at hand.

yipeeeee

jank wrote: »

Homelessness is a worldwide phenomena not an Irish one. If someone has a silver bullet to over power personal choice and willpower then we are all ears. I listened to a podcast on RTE the other day when Paddy o'Gorman went around the place talking to some homeless people. Sounds bites like "Ireland is worse than a 3rd world country", "Enda and Co. actually want them all dead" etc.etc. These hysterical comments were not challenged by the state broadcaster, which I found a little bizarre. However, here is the thing. They did a show the previous day about the reinstatement of the Christmas Bonus which was paid out last thursday I think. An extra 25% for many. The people they interviewed, most of them were going to spend the money on Christmas toys for the Grandkids. Yet in almost the same breath complained about having nothing for water tax. Eh, a little priority please! They also mentioned that they were going to march on the 10th of December against the Water Tax. Paddy o'Gorman then remarked that he found a trend where there was a 'new' protest movement in the unemployed now a days that was not there before. How about mention that almost 100,000 jobs have been created the last 3 1/2 years..? Nah we can't have a good news positive story from the national broadcaster!!

Paddy O'Gorman always does these street interviews. If he is not listening to some bird form the labour exchange he is found around the four courts getting a ear full of some hard pressed junkie. All in good fun of course but I have no idea what the point of them are.

My point? Ireland and the media (RTE and thejournal.ie are you listening?) needs to put away the self flagilation whip and get its head out of its ass. Countries have problems, Ireland is no different. The way to tackle them is not short term populism, its through a strategy via long term sustainable economic growth and transparent accountable public or private bodies tasked with responsibility for the issues at hand.

Spot on the sense of entitlement in this country is shocking.

anonyanony

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I pass so many homeless people on the way to work. Nearly every single time they ask me "spare change for the homeless" and every single time one of them asks, I ask if they want a tea or a coffee, especially in the mornings when it's cold and they've been out all night. Twice, I've bought teas but the rest of the time they say no that they're okay. It's an addiction that's eating away at them. I won't give money to help them pump themselves with the very thing that's keeping them on the street.

Some coffee places have a system where you can leave extra money so homeless people can go in and get a free coffee/tea, I always pay an extra euro when getting my morning coffee as I think it's a great system

dlouth15

yipeeeee wrote: »

Spot on the sense of entitlement in this country is shocking.

Yet it has got to be recognized that there homelessness is a potential trap waiting for a lot of people, most of whom would not currently identify in any way with the beggars they see in the street.

corner of hells

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

A number of things really annoy me about this whole issue:

1) The government obviously scrambling to save face and votes. Enda feeding people on the streets all of a sudden......

2) The government opposition cynically scrambling to make political capital out of Corries death near Leinster House.

3) The media jumping all over the issue because it suits the time of year

4) The homeless person Corrie consistently refused assistance/shelter. So the incident that sparked this would not have been avoided even if services were up to top notch. There is a real irony in that for me.

To be completely honest all of this makes me less inclined to give money to people on the streets and I used to occasionally.

I have seen Enda Kenny in a homeless service before , unannounced visits with no media circus in tow sitting talking with service users.

I knew Jonathan Corrie , I don't know why he refused shelter , he certainly didn't refuse assistance because I got.to know him in drop in centres where he could shower , get some food and avail of medical.service.

People will not stay in hostels for a myriad of reasons varying from mental ill health , not being allowed use , fear of other residents and so on.

If you feel giving money is of no benefit , why not volunteer , donate clothing or if you have a skill or talent offer it for free.

Working and indeed staying in homeless hostels is not for the faint hearted but nor is it some sort end of the world scenario .

dlouth15

corner of hells, do you have any suggestions as to how the situation can be improved in terms of prevention, longer term solutions etc.? What in your opinion are the root causes of homelessness?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

You know those signs saying spare change for a hostel, how much do they actually need?

yipeeeee

LexieOnRale wrote: »

You know those signs saying spare change for a hostel, how much do they actually need?

Next to nothing as far as I'm aware.

ebbsy

We would'nt be talking about this if nobody had died.

That Kelly is an idiot.

corner of hells

dlouth15 wrote: »

corner of hells, do you have any suggestions as to how the situation can be improved in terms of prevention, longer term solutions etc.? What in your opinion are the root causes of homelessness?

Raise rent allowance , invest in the treatment of mental health and addiction totether.
Engage with young people before they leave children's services .

dlouth15

corner of hells wrote: »

Raise rent allowance , invest in the treatment of mental health and addiction totether.
Engage with young people before they leave children's services .

Thanks. If someone finds themselves homeless and in a shelter, how quickly can permanent accommodation be arranged on average? What is the general standard of these services?

As you can probably tell I have little or no knowledge of the area so I value those with experience.

corner of hells

dlouth15 wrote: »

Thanks. If someone finds themselves homeless and in a shelter, how quickly can permanent accommodation be arranged on average? What is the general standard of these services?

As you can probably tell I have little or no knowledge of the area so I value those with experience.

When you become homeless , you register with your local authority ,there you complete a housing needs assessment.

As homeless you can ring the freephone number to access a bed in a hostel for one night.
You may be put forward for a pilot scheme to access a six month bed in a STA hostel.To become eligible you have to be prepared to engage with social care workers around your issues addiction ,health , legal concerns etc.
If a six month bed comes up you may be offered it , you must continue to interact with staff as well as pay whatevery your rent is.

When you say permanent accommodation are you talking about private rented or council ?

dlouth15

corner of hells wrote: »

When you become homeless , you register with your local authority ,there you complete a housing needs assessment.

As homeless you can ring the freephone number to access a bed in a hostel for one night.

You may be put forward for a pilot scheme to access a six month bed in a STA hostel.To become eligible you have to be prepared to engage with social care workers around your issues addiction ,health , legal concerns etc.
If a six month bed comes up you may be offered it , you must continue to interact with staff as well as pay whatevery your rent is.

You say may be offered here. Roughly what proportion get this offer. Is lack of cooperation from clients the main issue or is it resources?

When you say permanent accommodation are you talking about private rented or council ?

I suppose either really. I'm interested in the process of someone going from a bed in the shelter back to self-sufficiency. I realize that there may be personal circumstances which make this very difficult for many people. However my interest here is the situation if one assumes cooperation from the homeless person willing to engage.

corner of hells

dlouth15 wrote: »

You say may be offered here. Roughly what proportion get this offer.

I suppose either really. I'm interested in the process of someone going from a bed in the shelter back to self-sufficiency. I realize that there may be personal circumstances which make this very difficult for many people. However my interest here is the situation if one assumes cooperation from the homeless person willing to engage.

I couldn't guess what proportion , six month beds onlycome up if someone else loses their bed through arrears , behaviour anything really.

From shelter to self sufficiency , its not happening at the moment , private rented is not happening and local authorities have 90000 on social housing lists.

I know of one who got a council place this year .

Young men and women with or without addiction and or mental.health issues never mind a few convictions have no chance at.the moment.

dlouth15

corner of hells wrote: »

I couldn't guess what proportion , six month beds onlycome up if someone else loses their bed through arrears , behaviour anything really.

From shelter to self sufficiency , its not happening at the moment , private rented is not happening and local authorities have 90000 on social housing lists.

I know of one who got a council place this year .

Young men and women with or without addiction and or mental.health issues never mind a few convictions have no chance at.the moment.

Thanks. Food for thought there.

lazybones32

OP - the only reason this is being prioritised is because of the man's proximity to Govt.
Didn't a homeless man freeze to death last winter or the year before?
Wasn't another homeless crushed to death, when the bin he was sleeping in was emptied into the lorry?