Russell borrows whip from enright

ste2010

Racing Post (@RacingPost)
04/12/2014 14:16
Davy Russell on unplaced favourite Leave At Dawn borrows a whip from Phillip Enright after dropping his early on. pic.twitter.com/WLZnQY7wBy

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Francie Barrett

Very silly - he's going to get a ban for that surely.

Arctic89

Didn't see the race. Did he take it forcefully or did Enright hand it over?

Ian Whelan

They are both in trouble I would think.

Francie Barrett

Ian Whelan wrote: »

They are both in trouble I would think.

Good point, giving the whip away and you could say he broke the rule that requires the jockey to ride the horse to the best of its ability.

Ian Whelan

Both banned for 5 days. Russell will miss some good rides at Leopardstown and Enright will miss some at Limerick.

Shemale

Madness from both jockeys

NaiveMelodies

Jesus was certainly expecting longer than five days!

bellybuster12

NaiveMelodies wrote: »

Jesus was certainly expecting longer than five days!

Seriously? why?

NaiveMelodies

bellybuster12 wrote: »

Seriously? why?

Are you serious?

What happens if Russell beat Enrights horse by a nose? What if Russell beats any horse by a nose? What if you lay the horse after noticing the mishap and he wins by a nose?
Jockey and horse are part of the same team, if that team makes an error and it involves losing the whip, you're not expecting the whip to return. If it's allowed and he has an extra whip in his boot, then so be it.

How do you feel if you own, trained or have backed Enrights horse and see that happening? I know the trainer and owner hardly fancied it but doesn't matter, it's not right.
After one hurdle you've copped that you have been rightly mugged off surely?
It's bizarre and farcical and certainly not the kind of conduct that would endear anyone to racing and probably the kind of conduct that would put a racing fan or two off.
Enright's nearly worse to be honest for handing it over, he has 100% admitted to all that he isn't going to do his all to win the race.
It really shouldn't matter if the horses were 500/1 and 1/500.

I'd back any price about the two lads being mightily relieved this evening.

It's cheating and 5 days seems weak.

Did jockeys in England not get a ten day ban last week for not copping that they should have stopped despite the incorrect flag being waved by the steward?

Dan Chipowski

5 days seems lenient but at least they'll miss proper days racing, absolutely stupid from both parties and bans fully deserved.

bellybuster12

NaiveMelodies wrote: »

Are you serious?

What happens if Russell beat Enrights horse by a nose? What if Russell beats any horse by a nose? What if you lay the horse after noticing the mishap and he wins by a nose?
Jockey and horse are part of the same team, if that team makes an error and it involves losing the whip, you're not expecting the whip to return. If it's allowed and he has an extra whip in his boot, then so be it.

How do you feel if you own, trained or have backed Enrights horse and see that happening? I know the trainer and owner hardly fancied it but doesn't matter, it's not right.
After one hurdle you've copped that you have been rightly mugged off surely?
It's bizarre and farcical and certainly not the kind of conduct that would endear anyone to racing and probably the kind of conduct that would put a racing fan or two off.
Enright's nearly worse to be honest for handing it over, he has 100% admitted to all that he isn't going to do his all to win the race.
It really shouldn't matter if the horses were 500/1 and 1/500.

I'd back any price about the two lads being mightily relieved this evening.

It's cheating and 5 days seems weak.

Did jockeys in England not get a ten day ban last week for not copping that they should have stopped despite the incorrect flag being waved by the steward?

I don't disagree with your points, from a gambling pov on another day could be a messy situation but there was no damage done to the gamblers in the race or was there a health n safety issue or anything to deceive anyone. Sure Davy done everything possible to try n win the race on an odds on shot:).

I would have thought a 1or2 day ban and a fine would have have been plenty and you can be sure this situation would not arise again as all jockeys would know it was against rules and would be in trouble.

mr.jingle

Seem to remember this happening before with a Gordon Elliot horse at Cheltenham when a jockey was given a whip by the jock of a weakening horse. Not sure what the ban was they got or if they even got one! The Elliott horse won too iirc

Shemale

The maddest thing about it is where it happened, it's like they waited until the one place in Clonmel where you can see everything clearly.

Arctic89

Can't use the excuse that he was weakening if it was only after the first hurdle the whip was handed over.

Completely bizarre Russell would do something like this to win a handicap hurdle in Clonmel. You could forgive him in a Gold Cup.

slaneylad

Shemale wrote: »

The maddest thing about it is where it happened, it's like they waited until the one place in Clonmel where you can see everything clearly.

Sure he probably wanted some Christmas holidays

NaiveMelodies

bellybuster12 wrote: »

I don't disagree with your points, from a gambling pov on another day could be a messy situation but there was no damage done to the gamblers in the race or was there a health n safety issue or anything to deceive anyone. Sure Davy done everything possible to try n win the race on an odds on shot:).

I would have thought a 1or2 day ban and a fine would have have been plenty and you can be sure this situation would not arise again as all jockeys would know it was against rules and would be in trouble.

Yeah but I don't think it really matters what happens after the fact.
I know Davy was doing his utmost to win, but as I said it's Enright who is most at fault.
It's such a stupid thing to do it's hard to believe.
Don't think it's fair to say one mans fiver on the 33/1 shot isn't as important as another mans monkey on the fav either- regardless of the result.
And whatever about the gamblers, what about the owners, potential owners etc.. even if it puts 1 owner off it's money gone away from the sport..
I know theres what ifs in there and maybe I'm overreacting but it's disappointing to see.

A 1 or 2 day ban would have a complete and utter embarrassment IMO, and a 5 day ban isn't far off...
I think jockeys have always known they can't be handing their whips over mid race.. I hope so anyway..

Gringo180

The book should be thrown at Enright what an absolute disgrace of a jockey he is for doing that. Should be banned for a few months.

Gringo180

5 day ban hahaha that is rancid. Irish racing is an absolute farce.

bellybuster12

NaiveMelodies wrote: »

Yeah but I don't think it really matters what happens after the fact.
I know Davy was doing his utmost to win, but as I said it's Enright who is most at fault.
It's such a stupid thing to do it's hard to believe.
Don't think it's fair to say one mans fiver on the 33/1 shot isn't as important as another mans monkey on the fav either- regardless of the result.
And whatever about the gamblers, what about the owners, potential owners etc.. even if it puts 1 owner off it's money gone away from the sport..
I know theres what ifs in there and maybe I'm overreacting but it's disappointing to see.

A 1 or 2 day ban would have a complete and utter embarrassment IMO, and a 5 day ban isn't far off...
I think jockeys have always known they can't be handing their whips over mid race.. I hope so anyway..

We will have to agree to disagree on the bans or fine they receive but we can agree on Enright been a toolbox for handing over and effectively saying i ain't gonna be winning anyways(i think this message he sends out is the worst of this situation for the general public)

I have fivers on horses too and what i meant by the gambling end of it was nobody in their right mind would be putting anything on this horse at any price, coming back from over 400 days off the track with zero form before(prob scoots in the next day off a basement mark:rolleyes:).


Maybe it's just me but i would be very surprised if this turned off any new owner to the game( by that i mean this incident in particular). I think the drug cases recently are prob doing a good job of that, which is funny really because i don't think there is a ban long enough for that or anything of that nature including pulling horses to lay etc..

BumperD

mr.jingle wrote: »

Seem to remember this happening before with a Gordon Elliot horse at Cheltenham when a jockey was given a whip by the jock of a weakening horse. Not sure what the ban was they got or if they even got one! The Elliott horse won too iirc

I was there. Hoopy nov 08 iirc.

FIVE2_THREE

lester once stole the whip from another jockey in mid swing

Shemale

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

lester once stole the whip from another jockey in mid swing

Some chancer "that was an unfortunate incident".

The best thing about this is the Byrnes money appeared to be down.

byronbay2

Shemale wrote: »

Some chancer "that was an unfortunate incident".

Yeah, that was hilarious - typical Lester! I remember seeing another interview where he said "it was just one of those things that happen in racing"!

Still, that's what you want in a jockey - desperate to win. That's why McCoy is so popular with the punters - it's the kind of thing he would have no problem doing if he thought he could get a winner. As for giving his whip to another jockey during a race .....

ComplyOrDie

NaiveMelodies wrote: »

Are you serious?

What happens if Russell beat Enrights horse by a nose? What if Russell beats any horse by a nose? What if you lay the horse after noticing the mishap and he wins by a nose?
Jockey and horse are part of the same team, if that team makes an error and it involves losing the whip, you're not expecting the whip to return. If it's allowed and he has an extra whip in his boot, then so be it.

How do you feel if you own, trained or have backed Enrights horse and see that happening? I know the trainer and owner hardly fancied it but doesn't matter, it's not right.
After one hurdle you've copped that you have been rightly mugged off surely?
It's bizarre and farcical and certainly not the kind of conduct that would endear anyone to racing and probably the kind of conduct that would put a racing fan or two off.
Enright's nearly worse to be honest for handing it over, he has 100% admitted to all that he isn't going to do his all to win the race.
It really shouldn't matter if the horses were 500/1 and 1/500.

I'd back any price about the two lads being mightily relieved this evening.

It's cheating and 5 days seems weak.

Did jockeys in England not get a ten day ban last week for not copping that they should have stopped despite the incorrect flag being waved by the steward?

What if pigs could fly?

Shemale

ComplyOrDie wrote: »

What if pigs could fly?

Your valuable input in the thread wouldn't be there?

ComplyOrDie

Shemale wrote: »

Your valuable input in the thread wouldn't be there?

The incident had no significant impact on the race, what ifs are abserd

liamoreilly

ComplyOrDie wrote: »

The incident had no significant impact on the race, what ifs are abserd

...Your being completely results orientated which is completely wrong...Enright decided after one hurdle that he was not going to try to the best of his abilities...He should receive a much harsher ban to reflect this...

NaiveMelodies

ComplyOrDie wrote: »

What if pigs could fly?

Completely irrelevant what happens after the fact.

But bravo, excellent argument.

mr.jingle

Richard Johnson has got a 12 day ban for taking the wrong course today.

If the bans between these 2 offences were the other way around I'd have thought it would be satisfactory.

Although I still don't understand Russells ban as he essentially done nothing wrong

Gringo180

ComplyOrDie wrote: »

The incident had no significant impact on the race, what ifs are abserd

You would think differently if you had money on Enrights horse.

ComplyOrDie

Gringo180 wrote: »

You would think differently if you had money on Enrights horse.

Not really, I would never touch a horse from that yard at 33s, owner likes to punt and if it was fancied he wouldnt be 33s.

But back on topic..... complete over reaction by stewards, an appeal will be made and riders will get to ride at xmas.

In fact I'd give Davy a pat on th back for asking for whip (assum thats what happened), what quick thinking....in a sport where split second decisions can result in winning and loosing of a race

Gregk961

Disgraceful from Enright id have given him a few weeks

Dexter Bip

I heard this on the news this evening and knowing absolutely nothing about racing was puzzled. I tried to think of any number of reasons why handing a whip to another jockey would be a cause for such outcry without success. Now looking at this thread it seems that the jockey was doing the aquivalent of throwing in the towel at a boxing match before the first round. Is that the case and if so why did it bring the sport into disrepute. No agenda. just curious.

Hulk Hands

mr.jingle wrote: »

Seem to remember this happening before with a Gordon Elliot horse at Cheltenham when a jockey was given a whip by the jock of a weakening horse. Not sure what the ban was they got or if they even got one! The Elliott horse won too iirc

Hoopy. But the rider pulled it out of the hand of a beaten horse/jockey. Wasn't quite the same as the collusion here and only 1 person to blame

tipptom

ComplyOrDie wrote: »

Not really, I would never touch a horse from that yard at 33s, owner likes to punt and if it was fancied he wouldnt be 33s.

But back on topic..... complete over reaction by stewards, an appeal will be made and riders will get to ride at xmas.

In fact I'd give Davy a pat on th back for asking for whip (assum thats what happened), what quick thinking....in a sport where split second decisions can result in winning and loosing of a race

Two mile hurdle after the second,no need for quick thinking there.
Having got a brief look on attr,it looks like they arranged it that Davy would take the whip from him rather than hand it over so I think Davy should have taken the rap for this and said he took it of him.
Stupid place on the course to have handed it over.

Black_Ninja

Just seen this on IrishRacing.com

Davy Russell and Philip Enright are free to ride at the big Christmas festivals after the five-day bans they received for the 'whip borrowing' incident at Clonmel on December 7 were reduced to two days on appeal.

NaiveMelodies

Black_Ninja wrote: »

Just seen this on IrishRacing.com

Amazing.

Suppose it's not surprising they did it really, given they knew the penalty wouldn't be severe.

"The panel is keen to send out a message that these things should not happen. "???????

ste2010

Was just listening to 2fm sports pundit lose all racing credibility brand the reduction of the ban as common sense about 6 times. What a load of horse sh*t
People like him commending light treatment of these things reinforces the weak decisions these organisations make

ComplyOrDie

ComplyOrDie wrote: »

But back on topic..... complete over reaction by stewards, an appeal will be made and riders will get to ride at xmas.

Boooooom.... Great decision, looking forward to seeing these in action over Xmas

nuckeythompson

a different jurisdiction but compare this to dickie Johnson who made a mistake. these lads blatantly cheated and let off. it's a ****ing disgrace

NaiveMelodies

ComplyOrDie wrote: »

Boooooom.... Great decision, looking forward to seeing these in action over Xmas

:D

Glad I'll be seeing Davy tbf but come on, they are lucky ducks!!!

nuckeythompson

An ex jockey said this happens from time to time although no very often, but he maintains that its never seen or captured in Irish racing due to bad footage from most courses. IN some cases a more senior jockey will just take a whip from a youngster

On the other hand it sends out a message to other riders that in the heat of the moment can cheat and upon appeal you'll be fine!
I would not be happy if I owned Backinyourbox who would be considered a very different class of owner than Leave at dawns' owner

Gringo180

Shambles of a decision.

ComplyOrDie

NaiveMelodies wrote: »

How do you feel if you own, trained or have backed Enrights horse and see that happening? I

Owner/Trainer has him on Never Said That today, so I assume they had no problem as if they did they would most likely changed jockey.

tipptom

ComplyOrDie wrote: »

Owner/Trainer has him on Never Said That today, so I assume they had no problem as if they did they would most likely changed jockey.

But the point is you have to be seen to be giving your horse the best chance in a race regardless of what the owner thinks or what price it is or racing is just a farce and you may as well go back to match ups from steeple to steeple if that all the worth of the outsiders are.