Letting Agent using threats about partner joining me in my apartment?

DeathWolf

Hi all,

Recently my partner joined me in the appartement that I have been renting under a part4 for 4 years. A couple weeks after this, my landlord's agent calls to announce they are selling the appartement.

I accept their request for a visit, and they come, with an unnannounced photographer(urgh), to make photos. Noticing my partner they ask me to confirm that the landlord is ok with her.

I explain I haven't made the declaration yet, and they start implying my landlord needs to accept her, and request not only an ID, but a proof of work, and previous landlord recommendations. A couple hours later I get a paper notifying my termination of residence, with the amount provided by my part4.

Fast forward 2 weeks, and they start asking for very inconvenient visit moments, including moments where I am not there, which makes me uncomfortable as they refuse to guarantee anything about damage from visitors. I have sent them the documents regarding my partner, but have yet to hear anything.


Now, today, they are making indirect threats, only over the phone, that my landlord is going to refuse my partner if I don't accept visits. I really find the idea of them leading us forever not acceptable. I'm open to visits, on my terms, and I don't see what reason they would not accept my partner, as I'm the one paying all of the rent, and the appartement is spacious and meant for a couple, and they still have my security deposit.

Any recommendations? Suggestions?

Thanks,

DW

El_Duderino 09

Hey DW,

You raised a number of points and I think each of them can be answered by reading your lease agreement.

First off see if your agreement says anything about who can live there on your lease. I'm sure your partner is lovely but if it says you cannot move anyone else in, then you have broken the lease...

Secondly have a look to see if it refers to viewings. I know my lease says I have to be willing to facilitate viewings (within reason) in the last 2 months of my tenancy. I presume viewings when you're not present is not necessarily reasonable so you might not agree to that, but you might be obliged to provide particular times which do suit you to show the house. You need to work it out with the estate agent.

anonyanony

What does the lease say about bringing more people into the flat most don't allow it, if they don't allow it they can ask your partner to leave, you don't have to give viewings that's up to you if you do unless it's in the lease that you do.

He has given notice to quit what was the reason, the sale or the extra person living there?

It's up to you how to play it but check your lease and if you want to jeopardise any reference from them, they might be unhappy already you broke the lease and did not tell then of the extra person living there.

Mrs OBumble

So you moved someone in without permission, most likely the LL has received complaints from the neighbours (at best) about her, and you're complaining because the LL has started to take action about the complaints.

Start by formally requesting permission for her to live there, and take things from there. Your choices may well be to not live together, or to find somewhere new to live. If the latter is necessary, then you will need a reference.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you moved someone in without permission, most likely the LL has received complaints from the neighbours (at best) about her, and you're complaining because the LL has started to take action about the complaints.

Start by formally requesting permission for her to live there, and take things from there. Your choices may well be to not live together, or to find somewhere new to live. If the latter is necessary, then you will need a reference.

I don't think it is fair to say that it is likely there have been complaints. Nowhere has the OP indicated that.

However, saying that, as a landlord, I would be mightily annoyed if one of my tenants moved someone in without my consent (assuming it is not allowed by the lease) but most importantly, without sight of references Etc. Why would a LL go through the whole vetting process at the beginning of the lease just to allow anyone old person to subsequently move in?

MagicMarker

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you moved someone in without permission, most likely the LL has received complaints from the neighbours (at best) about her, and you're complaining because the LL has started to take action about the complaints.

Start by formally requesting permission for her to live there, and take things from there. Your choices may well be to not live together, or to find somewhere new to live. If the latter is necessary, then you will need a reference.

Where are you getting complaints from? OP already mentioned how the landlord came to know about his partner living there.

DeathWolf

There was no complaint.

They gave me a notice of sale before any of this.
I looked in the lease.
It says the appartement is for the tenant and his dependent. But does not define dependent.
As far as I am concerned, my partner is my dependent since I'm the working person, paying the lease, and she's not.

Help!!!!

Chances are its not even the LL saying these things but the agent trying to push through the sale quickly

Squatman

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you moved someone in without permission, most likely the LL has received complaints from the neighbours (at best) about her, and you're complaining because the LL has started to take action about the complaints.

Start by formally requesting permission for her to live there, and take things from there. Your choices may well be to not live together, or to find somewhere new to live. If the latter is necessary, then you will need a reference.

Have you actually read the OP?

Squatman

Help!!!! wrote: »

Chances are its not even the LL saying these things but the agent trying to push through the sale quickly

+1 on this, the estate agent is pushing this, so he can get easier access for viewing the apartment. Dont worry too much about it.

anonyanony

DeathWolf wrote: »

There was no complaint.

They gave me a notice of sale before any of this.
I looked in the lease.
It says the appartement is for the tenant and his dependent. But does not define dependent.
As far as I am concerned, my partner is my dependent since I'm the working person, paying the lease, and she's not.

The gf would not be your dependent, I would not try that with your LL you will just make things worse, you have being given notice to quit for the sale I am guessing if so start looking and try to be nice with the LL saying if she can stay till the end of your notice you will allow viewings within reason and hope for a good reference.

davo10

If you've been there for 4 years under part4 tenancy, LL may not need to give you a reason for asking you to leave.

anonyanony

davo10 wrote: »

If you've been there for 4 years under part4 tenancy, LL may not need to give you a reason for asking you to leave.

He has a valid one anyway before that even, OP will have to leave anyway it's more if he want's to make this more awkward in the mean time before he goes.

DeathWolf

anonyanony wrote: »

The gf would not be your dependent, I would not try that with your LL you will just make things worse, you have being given notice to quit for the sale I am guessing if so start looking and try to be nice with the LL saying if she can stay till the end of your notice you will allow viewings within reason and hope for a good reference.

That is the only thing I'm wondering about. What defines a dependent?

anonyanony wrote: »

He has a valid one anyway before that even, OP will have to leave anyway it's more if he want's to make this more awkward in the mean time before he goes.

I've been here 3 years and 11 months, so it turns in my favor in that case.
I really have no qualms with the agency and the selling to be honest.
The only thing is that I want the visits to be while I'm present(as they refused to give a guarantee they would be responsible if they did visits while I'm away) and at times convenient for me.

anonyanony

DeathWolf wrote: »

That is the only thing I'm wondering about. What defines a dependent?




I've been here 3 years and 11 months, so it turns in my favor in that case.
I really have no qualms with the agency and the selling to be honest.
The only thing is that I want the visits to be while I'm present(as they refused to give a guarantee they would be responsible if they did visits while I'm away) and at times convenient for me.

You don't get to define the dependent, you should have rang to see if the gf could move in and ask was she a dependent, sure otherwise you could take in a homeless person and say they are your dependent.

Visits while there is reasonable, ring the LL say you will allow visits while you are there with 24hrs notice if the gf can stay till you have to move on your notice to quit, that is unless you lease says you have to show it then you have no leverage to get the gf to stay.

Also be polite and nice remember you need a reference

Tarzana2

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you moved someone in without permission, most likely the LL has received complaints from the neighbours (at best) about her

Why would neighbours complain? I wouldn't have a clue if any of my neighbours moved someone into their apartment. You have some odd ideas!

But OP, I think a LL has a right to be annoyed if someone else moved in. Extra wear and tear etc.

DeathWolf

References are a deeply Irish thing. I've never needed one in France or US before, so I couldn't care any less about them as I don't intend on staying in Ireland after my lease expires. I personally find it revolting that a reference is taken so seriously if the bills are all paid in due time and the apartment kept in good state(that is all that matters in the end). That is all that matters, and anything else is disgusting abuse.

In all cases, considering there is no clause in the contract mentioning that I'm forbidden from having my partner, and that a part4 only requires me to declare a new inhabitant, can they really claim a contract breach and use the 28 days eviction instead of my 2.5 months remaining? Also wouldn't they be shooting themselves in the foot of 2 month of rent by doing that?(I doubt they can rent the place for the last 2 months)
I'm unfortunately dealing with the agent rather than the landlord... and I have a feeling the agent just wants to get their commission as fast as possible.

Tarzana2

DeathWolf wrote: »

References are a deeply Irish thing.

Not at all, they are standard in the UK, and I'm sure I've seen people on the continent mention requiring them too, though maybe not in France.

If anything, reference requests are fairly new to the accommodation rental scene in Ireland.

El_Duderino 09

The references only make sense before you move in so the landlord knows about past performance as a tenant. You moved your partner in without consulting LL so now it appears silly to ask for references but they make sense before you move in.

I'd be really surprised if your partner counts as a dependent. If she is your dependent because she has no job, then what happens if she gets a job? Does she stop being your dependent? I imagine a dependent is a child under 18 and a parent/guardian. That's just how I would imagine it because you could argue anyone is a dependent.

DeathWolf

True:)
Apologies there, s/Irish/Anglosaxon/ is what I meant.
And yup they do exist, I just meant that this power being place unilateraly in the hand of the landlord is kind of bad...

MarkAnthony

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Not at all, they are standard in the UK, and I'm sure I've seen people on the continent mention requiring them too, though maybe not in France.]

If anything, reference requests are fairly new to the accommodation rental scene in Ireland.

They're doubly important here because of our lack of a proper credit referencing system. Frankly you wouldn't go to the bother if you could see a decent credit score, and impact it if the tenant turned out to be a muppet.

garhjw

DeathWolf wrote: »

References are a deeply Irish thing. I've never needed one in France or US before, so I couldn't care any less about them as I don't intend on staying in Ireland after my lease expires. I personally find it revolting that a reference is taken so seriously if the bills are all paid in due time and the apartment kept in good state(that is all that matters in the end). That is all that matters, and anything else is disgusting abuse.

In all cases, considering there is no clause in the contract mentioning that I'm forbidden from having my partner, and that a part4 only requires me to declare a new inhabitant, can they really claim a contract breach and use the 28 days eviction instead of my 2.5 months remaining? Also wouldn't they be shooting themselves in the foot of 2 month of rent by doing that?(I doubt they can rent the place for the last 2 months)
I'm unfortunately dealing with the agent rather than the landlord... and I have a feeling the agent just wants to get their commission as fast as possible.

I was required to provide a reference when renting in the US. your argument against them doesn't make sense. How Do you know someone will keep the apartment in a good condition without knowing if they are a good tenant in previous accomodation? They could be a scumbag that shows no respect for the property...

?Cee?view

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The references only make sense before you move in so the landlord knows about past performance as a tenant. You moved your partner in without consulting LL so now it appears silly to ask for references but they make sense before you move in.

I'd be really surprised if your partner counts as a dependent. If she is your dependent because she has no job, then what happens if she gets a job? Does she stop being your dependent? I imagine a dependent is a child under 18 and a parent/guardian. That's just how I would imagine it because you could argue anyone is a dependent.

You're not subletting to your partner or parting with possession of any part of the property to your partner. How therefore does anyone here think the landlord has power to deny your partner the right to live with you. Can anyone point to where you are breaching the terms of your lease. Sure, you are probably the names lessee, but where does that extend to your being the only resident.

Tarzana2

MarkAnthony wrote: »

They're doubly important here because of our lack of a proper credit referencing system. Frankly you wouldn't go to the bother if you could see a decent credit score, and impact it if the tenant turned out to be a muppet.

Credit rating won't indicate gaff-wrecking tendencies though. :pac:

MarkAnthony

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Credit rating won't indicate gaff-wrecking tendencies though. :pac:

Not the first time. But given you'd be able to register a 6K or whatever judgement against their credit the next landlord would at least be on notice. Not being able to buy a house or a Car also tends to have a focusing effect on people

DeathWolf

In my opinion a proper system is one where the landlord HAS to fill an *official* paper indicating various verifiable facts.

An open letter is an open door to abuse.

El_Duderino 09

Well it depends on the definition of dependent. If dependent means 'anyone who depends on you' then there is no need to stop at moving in your unemployed partner. Why not your sick mother, your unemployed friend or a homeless person? That is why I imagine dependent has a specific meaning relating to someone who you are legally responsible for like your child.

What do you think 'dependent' means?

davo10

DeathWolf wrote: »

In my opinion a proper system is one where the landlord HAS to fill an *official* paper indicating various verifiable facts.

An open letter is an open door to abuse.

If you are a good tenant and pay all your rent/bills, leave the place more or less as you found it and give proper notice, you will receive/are rewarded with a good reference which would benefit your search for new accomodation, but if a tenant acts the maggot and does not provide a reference on request, well the new LL can conclude that there were issues and may not wish to take a chance especially when there are others who can provide references. What's wrong with that?

makeorbrake

DeathWolf wrote: »

And yup they do exist, I just meant that this power being place unilateraly in the hand of the landlord is kind of bad...

What power? A landlord is in the business of achieving a return on his property. I don't think their concern is much else - nor would a tenant want it to be. What earthly reason would a landlord have to provide an unfavourable reference in a scenario where the tenant has been decent? How would he/she benefit from that?

firestarter51

you need landlords permission to move anyone else in except a dependent ie child
ask for notice of appointments so you or girlfriend can be there, its a reasonable request imo

ted1

If I was the landlord I would want you out at the end of a part 4 tenancy