What Broandband upload speed can you gt from a non-NGB exchange?

Nollog

I've very close to my exchange, the techs said it was just around the corner, I get 22 down 600k up
dunno if it's ngb, it's not fibre, adsl, probably has a xyzdsl name.

Andy From Sligo

SpaceTime wrote:

Well, it's likely that the local exchange already supports ADSL2+ but the backhaul doesn't make it viable to even switch on.

Does backhaul mean the microwave link to the broadcasting tower?

And my status on my modem says the line is G. Dmt .. Does that mean it's not even ADSL1 let alone ADSL2+ ?

ED E

G.dmt is the specification for ADSL1.

Backhaul is the microwave link yes. Might be 100 or 150mbps only.

SpaceTime

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Does backhaul mean the microwave link to the broadcasting tower?

And my status on my modem says the line is G. Dmt .. Does that mean it's not even ADSL1 let alone ADSL2+ ?

G.Dmt is Classic ADSL up to 8Mbit/s

It's quite possible the exchange can deliver up to 24Mbit/s from the same equipment, it's just that since it doesn't have sufficient bandwidth to provide it, there's no reason why they'd switch it on.

Backhaul just means a generic term for any connection back to the core network and beyond to the internet in general.

Eircom's NGN core is very fast. The issues you have are that you're basically connected via a crappy link to Ballymote which is probably connecting to the core in Rathedmund Exchange (a large building near Lidl/Dunnes in Sligo) which is the main node for your region.

The NGN simply means a high capacity all-IP network that has replaced the older ATM network.

Terms like "digital" and "fibre" aren't really very helpful either as they've been using both since the 1980s.

You could describe dial-up internet as "fibre powered"

The NGN maps here here, and you're definitely not on it ! http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Our_Network/

Andy From Sligo

SpaceTime wrote: »

G.Dmt is Classic ADSL up to 8Mbit/s

It's quite possible the exchange can deliver up to 24Mbit/s from the same equipment, it's just that since it doesn't have sufficient bandwidth to provide it, there's no reason why they'd switch it on.

I wish they would switch it on and enabled in any case so it is ready for when/if the microwave link is upgraded!

SpaceTime wrote: »

Eircom's NGN core is very fast. The issues you have are that you're basically connected via a crappy link to Ballymote which is probably connecting to the core in Rathedmund Exchange (a large building near Lidl/Dunnes in Sligo) which is the main node for your region.

But the thing what I dont get is are we touching Ballymote at all seeing as we are getting the signal from the mast on the Ox mountains and then down through normal copper telephone lines where i live? - what IS feeding that mast on the Ox mountains? - is it a signal from Truskmore in Sligo?

SpaceTime

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I wish they would switch it on and enabled in any case so it is ready for when/if the microwave link is upgraded!




But the thing what I dont get is are we touching Ballymote at all seeing as we are getting the signal from the mast on the Ox mountains and then down through normal copper telephone lines where i live? - what IS feeding that mast on the Ox mountains? - is it a signal from Truskmore in Sligo?

They've a national microwave network for decades. It would be going across that. Not sure what route it might take.

Could be disappearing into the fibre network at a tower somewhere and then back to Ballymote.

Andy From Sligo

after just reading a reply from the eircom net tech support guy who said he made a mistake ad that our line CAN get 768kbps upload speed ..... but only after subscribing to a dearer broadband package such as home professional or home Turbo whatever they are so it seems like if your subscribed to the normal ADSL resedential package you get it capped at 384kbps .. so he gave me the wrong informaion the upload limit was not because of the telephone line nor the exchange it was because they want you to buy a dearer package before they give you better 768kbps - when i was with UTVinternet (before they went out of ROI) I was getting 768kbps upload on their basic package and when vodafone ireland took it over I reckon VF Ireland capped it at 384kbps upload speed - time to get onto vodafone support tomorrow now and ask them about it.

ED E

The higher packages will allow the higher upload, but see if you are actually able to order a higher package. On radio exchanges those bitstream products are often turned off a wholesale level.

SpaceTime

You can actually get very fast gigabit microwave links. Nothing particularly wrong with using radio just the radio they're using is obsolete.

I've heard rumours that some exchanges might have as little as 16Mbit/s for the whole site!

Andy From Sligo

SpaceTime wrote: »

You can actually get very fast gigabit microwave links. Nothing particularly wrong with using radio just the radio they're using is obsolete.

I've heard rumours that some exchanges might have as little as 16Mbit/s for the whole site!

yeah and how do you force a company like eircom to update their hardware to the latest specs to benefit their customers. - Even though I am not technically a customer of eircom (im with vodafone home broadband for bills) but as long as eircom still hold onto their phone lines and equipment (cant remember the correct terminology where they still own the phone lines) then I still class myself affected when eircom dont upgrade their telphone system accross the country, or take forever to upgrade the system to todays specs, especially if your off the beaten track. - mind you what am I saying, im not exacty off the beaten track im not stuck in a field miles from no-where or up a mountain or in the deepest darkest valleys, and im only living 12 miles away from sligo town centre. Just as in years ago where telecom eareann caught up late with technology and not investing in the infrastructure all these years later it seems eircom is not keeping up to date with its equipment then

mobil 222

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I wish they would switch it on and enabled in any case so it is ready for when/if the microwave link is upgraded!




But the thing what I dont get is are we touching Ballymote at all seeing as we are getting the signal from the mast on the Ox mountains and then down through normal copper telephone lines where i live? - what IS feeding that mast on the Ox mountains? - is it a signal from Truskmore in Sligo?

Andy ...Coolaney has nothing to do with Ballymote

Coolaney is an RSU exchange ie white cabinet which has another white and
green copper cabinet attached.
There are a number of the same type around the county ie Ballygawley,
Maugherow and one at carraroe.
As far as I can see both Ballygawley and Coolaney are for upgrade next year

Andy From Sligo

mobil 222 wrote: »

Andy ...Coolaney has nothing to do with Ballymote ...

no I didnt think it did

Andy From Sligo

mobil 222 wrote: »

... As far as I can see both Ballygawley and Coolaney are for upgrade next year

I suppose Ballymote and Collooney (and most probably Tubbercurry) will get it before we get it in Coolaney...

SpaceTime

Actually, most exchanges are RSUs bit the terminology only applies to the original voice/ISDN gear.

The "exchange" is actually distributed so your local RSU is just a remote part of a big exchange sitting at the hub of a big netwoek of RSUs.

You're quite likely connected to and a part of Rathedmund in Sligo.

An RSU could be anything from a couple of hundred lines in a small cabinet to a 20,000 line suburban exchange.

The ADSL services are provided by another layer of network that's basically laid on top of the PSTN and is totally independent from it.

So in your local exchange there's a DSLAM that provides ADSL or ADSL2+. That's connected back to a big router, probably in Rathedmund.

Then the efibre gear is another separate network overlaid ontop of all that again. In that case it might not even pay any attention to exchange boundaries where a small RSU is used.

Sometimes small E10 or AXE RSUs are used to provide service to new build housing estates, industrial parks etc the difference between those and your setup is that they're fibre connected.

They'd provide 24mbit ADSL2+ reliably.

Andy From Sligo

so a rather comical (not in a funny way) answer from vodafone support that if I go with vodafone business i will be paying double than I am and no guarantees that my upload seed will go up in fact it could get worse!! - so pay double, possibly get worse! - how on earth do these providers get business most of the time

- a much more helpful thing would be if they lifted whatever restriction they impose for residential customers broadband internet just so the customer can see if the speeds will change or at least give yo a cooling off period. Yes i want faster upload speed that 256kbps , if that means paying more, OK not happy but would consider it - however if no-one can confirm that my upload speeds will increase (or maybe will get worse because of congestion ... why would a dearer business internet acount be worse than a residential account more congested?? surely a business internet account should be better?) why would/should i pay double for same speed or worse?? - and I bet if you signed up to a business account you wouldnt be able to go back to the residential account if it was to prove worse...

Nollog

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

so a rather comical (not in a funny way) answer from vodafone support that if I go with vodafone business i will be paying double than I am and no guarantees that my upload seed will go up in fact it could get worse!! - so pay double, possibly get worse! - how on earth do these providers get business most of the time

- a much more helpful thing would be if they lifted whatever restriction they impose for residential customers broadband internet just so the customer can see if the speeds will change or at least give yo a cooling off period. Yes i want faster upload speed that 256kbps , if that means paying more, OK not happy but would consider it - however if no-one can confirm that my upload speeds will increase (or maybe will get worse because of congestion ... why would a dearer business internet acount be worse than a residential account more congested?? surely a business internet account should be better?) why would/should i pay double for same speed or worse?? - and I bet if you signed up to a business account you wouldnt be able to go back to the residential account if it was to prove worse...

A business account is really all about the support, you should get better support if your line goes down and all that as a business.
Don't you get a 14 day cooling off period for exactly this reason?

Andy From Sligo

/\/ollog wrote: »

A business account is really all about the support, you should get better support if your line goes down and all that as a business.
Don't you get a 14 day cooling off period for exactly this reason?

I would have thought you should get a calling off period, i shall check that with them when I phone them - surely they wouldnt expect me to pay double for the same or worse speeds and let me opt out?

Andy From Sligo

so just wondering how do ISP's restrict upload and download rates for residential customers as opposed to ones that take out a subscription for business broadband? - do they mess about with line attenuation or gain for the particular phone number of the subscriber or how do they the technical peeps actually do it there end does anyone know?

when broadband first came out years ago, im pretty sure that if someone was getting bad speeds they could adjust the gain on the line or something allowing a better speed or am I getting mixed up with when it was Dial up and not broadband when they did that?

SpaceTime

That sounds like they're just managing bandwidth by capping the capacity on each connection. It's nothing to do with the line quality. The exchange just has very limited capacity back to the core network, so they're squeezing people onto smaller bandwidth allowances to avoid it clogging up.

Coolaney only has a population of 1000 people, on average maybe 3 people per household, so there might be 200 to 400 lines on the exchange at most and if say half of those were using ADSL, that might mean there's a 100-200 port DSLAM. Basically, the size of a single e-fibre cabinet!

The exchange might only have as little as 16 Mbit/s or 32 Mbit/s connection over a microwave link back to its parent. It has to use part of that for voice/ISDN traffic which will always get priority and the rest would be used for internet access.

Assuming that everyone's not downloading at full speed all the time, they still have to divide up whatever capacity they have between the 100+ active lines. The result of that is that they'll have to cap the speeds to share out the bandwidth. If they gave 2 customers 24mbit/s, all the other customers would be left with no connectivity.

Basically they're just rationing out a very small connection. I don't know how big that connection might be but, it sounds pretty low capacity.
I assume if you're willing to pay for a business account, you just get a slightly bigger ration and maybe a slightly higher priority.

If your little cabinet exchange were connected to fibre, it would have no issue providing everyone with reliable ADSL2+ 24Mbit/s service.

Obviously, if you're very far away from the exchange, then your line length will start to become problematic, but if you're in the village/town itself you should be able to get really good ADSL2+, sadly that's not the case there because the exchange is connected to the network over a crappy radio link instead of fibre.

It's quite possible that your entire town has less bandwidth than a single house in Sligo Town with UPC!

Also, it's not even the fact that it's a microwave link, it's the fact that that link is quite likely using prehistoric ATM (Asynchronous Transfer Mode) protocols to connect you rather than IP (internet protocol). It's probably limited to maybe at most 100mbit/s for everything and I would suspect quite a bit less than that given that you're capped at such a low speed.

Andy From Sligo

SpaceTime wrote: »

That sounds like they're just managing bandwidth by capping the capacity on each connection. It's nothing to do with the line quality. The exchange just has very limited capacity back to the core network, so they're squeezing people onto smaller bandwidth allowances to avoid it clogging up.

Coolaney only has a population of 1000 people, on average maybe 3 people per household, so there might be 200 to 400 lines on the exchange at most and if say half of those were using ADSL, that might mean there's a 100-200 port DSLAM. Basically, the size of a single e-fibre cabinet!

The exchange might only have as little as 16 Mbit/s or 32 Mbit/s connection over a microwave link back to its parent. It has to use part of that for voice/ISDN traffic which will always get priority and the rest would be used for internet access.

Assuming that everyone's not downloading at full speed all the time, they still have to divide up whatever capacity they have between the 100+ active lines. The result of that is that they'll have to cap the speeds to share out the bandwidth. If they gave 2 customers 24mbit/s, all the other customers would be left with no connectivity.

Basically they're just rationing out a very small connection. I don't know how big that connection might be but, it sounds pretty low capacity.
I assume if you're willing to pay for a business account, you just get a slightly bigger ration and maybe a slightly higher priority.

If your little cabinet exchange were connected to fibre, it would have no issue providing everyone with reliable ADSL2+ 24Mbit/s service.

Obviously, if you're very far away from the exchange, then your line length will start to become problematic, but if you're in the village/town itself you should be able to get really good ADSL2+, sadly that's not the case there because the exchange is connected to the network over a crappy radio link instead of fibre.

It's quite possible that your entire town has less bandwidth than a single house in Sligo Town with UPC!

Also, it's not even the fact that it's a microwave link, it's the fact that that link is quite likely using prehistoric ATM (Asynchronous Transfer Mode) protocols to connect you rather than IP (internet protocol). It's probably limited to maybe at most 100mbit/s for everything and I would suspect quite a bit less than that given that you're capped at such a low speed.

I still cannot understand why we were getting 6mbps down and 768kbps up on the same cabinet before with utvinternet ,before vodafone took over when utvinternet left ROI - to hear the press release from vodafone they said that it would be better, less congested on their servers - but in reality the internet speeds (well upload anyway) has got worse in our case - thats not progress thats going backwards - I suppose they think that download speed is more important these days for people rather than upload, but its not when you want to upload video or photos to the internet.

Even when we had Fastcom years ago they used to do 3mbps down, 3mbps up but I see these days they dont offer 3 mbps up on their standard package. When I asked why they said it was more tailored these days to customers requirements and its more important according to customers to have the best download speed.

- it really does look like to get better upload speed I will have to go with fastcom it looks (if I can somehow get out of this 18 months contract with VF) but whats the betting with my luck (or sods law as they call it) that I will get Fastcom and then not long from getting it they get e-fibre for our area! - could see that happening!

Andy From Sligo

with a lot of perseverance and too'ing and fro'wing vodafone yesterday have upgraded us to higher speed, my modem router now reports ADSL2+ (it was G.DMT before) and although we not getting a full 1mbps upload we getting in the region of 750Kbp/s which is a lot better now and faster a uploading (that will keep us going until/if e-fibre comes our way!)

SpaceTime

Sounds like the upload speed's just a little higher on ADSL2+ then.

Hopefully e-fibre or ESB-Vodafone's new Fibre-to-Home (1Gbit/s) service arrives at your place eventually!