What Broandband upload speed can you gt from a non-NGB exchange?

Andy From Sligo

Ive been told by eircom broadband support the fastest upload speed I can get for my broadband regardless of supplier is 384Kbps and the reason ive been given, the limitation i because the exchange is not NGB enabled - its an E10 exchange im on if thats any help. So really I'm looking for 2nd/3rd or however many opinion(s) - one thing i cannot get my head around is that in or previous house before june this year only just a mile up the road we were with Utvinternet Broadband(who have now ceased) and when I used to a speedtest.net speed test the upload figure said 768Kbps im pretty sure of it and apparently it was using the same exchange box in the area. Any info/details of what a non-ngb ADSL (g.dmt) maximum upload should get so I have some ammunition just in case Im getting the brush off here would be most appreciated

ED E

Legacy exchanges (the better ones) max out at 7Mb. Thats 7168/384.

Uploads only increase on the higher end of the scale, and not by much. You really need VDSL(eFibre) to get something decent.

flutered

i have 0.20 upload, this is an utter disgrace, how can it be called broadband.

Mayo Yid

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Ive been told by eircom broadband support the fastest upload speed I can get for my broadband regardless of supplier is 384Kbps and the reason ive been given, the limitation i because the exchange is not NGB enabled - its an E10 exchange im on if thats any help. So really I'm looking for 2nd/3rd or however many opinion(s) - one thing i cannot get my head around is that in or previous house before june this year only just a mile up the road we were with Utvinternet Broadband(who have now ceased) and when I used to a speedtest.net speed test the upload figure said 768Kbps im pretty sure of it and apparently it was using the same exchange box in the area. Any info/details of what a non-ngb ADSL (g.dmt) maximum upload should get so I have some ammunition just in case Im getting the brush off here would be most appreciated

A 12mbit business connection from Eircom would have a upload of 1mbit, it's about 70 quid per month though. I had it for ages on a exchange where the max I could get was 8mbit down 200m from exchange, the 1mbit up was lovely

Andy From Sligo

ED E wrote: »

Legacy exchanges (the better ones) max out at 7Mb. Thats 7168/384.

Uploads only increase on the higher end of the scale, and not by much. You really need VDSL(eFibre) to get something decent.

oh so the tech guy was telling the truth then, I was sorry to doubt it but have become so sceptical because in the past some of these technical suport have not always told the truth and have come up with all kinds of excuses why the broadband speed is not good to try and brush off the consumer - I still cant understand why on the same exchange I got 768kbps though, unless of course its my fault and was getting confused with download speed of 7168mbps , that might be whats happening of course

braddun

how far are you from the exchange

Andy From Sligo

fastcom in our area are doing a package of up to 12mbps down and up to 2mbps up at 50euro per month by dish on roof (not satellite) so Im really considering this one day to get better upload rate, i cant see the time we will ever get fibre where we live
http://www.fastcom.ie/#!residential-broadband/cxg1

Andy From Sligo

braddun wrote: »

how far are you from the exchange

in walking distance, just around the corner from us

braddun

then you should get faster

call voderphone with your number and it will tell you the speed

Andy From Sligo

flutered wrote: »

i have 0.20 upload, this is an utter disgrace, how can it be called broadband.

it cant can it - its terrible loading up videos to youtube and facebook or uploadig high res photos isnt it at those upload speeds

Andy From Sligo

braddun wrote: »

then you should get faster

call voderphone with your number and it will tell you the speed

But eircom bloke told me max upload i could get with anyone on ADSL is 384kbit/s which is what im getting - until next gen broadband comes to my area...

braddun

whats your exchange called
check your speed with your phon number

http://www.vodafone.ie/home-phone-broadband/

Andy From Sligo

braddun wrote: »

whats your exchange called
check your speed with your phon number

http://www.vodafone.ie/home-phone-broadband/

As per normal when I do these line checks:
Your line can support

Up to 24Mb - or the maximum speed your line can support.

---

so helpful - they never mention upload speeds though!

regardless of it saying up to 24mb im getting 5mbps download on speedtest.net

Andy From Sligo

braddun wrote: »

whats your exchange called

http://www.vodafone.ie/home-phone-broadband/

Coolaney E10

Andy From Sligo

I wouldnt mind a few years ago I was told the exchange was upgraded to NGB and that the line tested up 8mbps Download .... and now Im being told by eircom that the exchange is not NGB enabled and thats why I cannot get more that 384Kbp/s Upload rate!! - will they ever make their mind up

I dont know where they get now that my phone number/line reports up to 24Mbps speed when I am so close to the exchange - I can only achieve 5mbps (on a good day) and my modem status reports 7168mbp/s downstream line rate

ED E

braddun wrote: »

then you should get faster

call voderphone with your number and it will tell you the speed

No, he cant. Legacy exchanges dont go any faster.

OP the sites all say up to 24 if you cant get fibre, its just them being coded badly/misleadingly.

Simi

The 384kb/s upload (and the 7mb/s download) are artificial limits imposed on old ADSL exchanges. Our home broadband started at 8mb/s down 768kb/s, before being lowered to 7.6mb/s down 512kb/s up & finally down to the current limits.

It's primary effect (intentional or not) is to cripple users ability to torrent or utilise cloud services. It's a great deterrent tbh.

SpaceTime

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Coolaney E10

Coolaney seems to be part of the area covered by Ballymote which has e-fibre rolled out. The main street in Coolaney comes up as having live e-fibre.

BTW: The "E10" suffix is fairly meaningless in terms of what broadband facilities are available. Eircom uses two types of voice exchange, Ericsson AXE and Alcatel E10. They provide the PSTN (traditional voice calls and dial tone) and ISDN facilities in a given area and have been around since about 1980. The entire 07 Northwest area uses Alcatel E10 exchanges as does about half of the network.

Both systems can were designed to be fully distributed, so your local 'exchange' in all likelihood is just a cabinet or tiny building somewhere that's actually a part of a large exchange in a near by big town.

From an end user point of view, the make and model of PSTN/ISDN exchange you're connected to is pretty irrelevant. All it does is provide you with voice services (or ISDN if you happen to have that for some reason)

ADSL is provided by gear that's got nothing to do with the voice exchange.

Also, the e-fibre rollout doesn't necessarily follow the same hierarchy as the exchanges and there are plenty of examples where ADSL services are first generation and pretty bad coming from some tiny exchange and then the e-fibre services were just overlaid on top of it from a hub in the main exchange.

If the speeds available on your line are awful, I'd suggest looking at wireless services (and I don't mean 3G/4G mobile) instead.
There are some fixed-wireless access services up there.

Fastcom are the main one up that way I think?

But, basically if you're on a rubbishy rural ADSL line, you'd be far better off going with something like that as you'll at least get decent bandwidth. It's no where near as fast as e-fibre or cable, but it's at least as a normal ADSL2+ line.

They seem to do 12Mbit/s down and 2Mbit/s up + home phone via a little microwave antenna on your roof.

We had to use a small village exchange in North Leitrim one summer that was only capable of delivering 2Mbit/s and we were within 100m of the exchange!!

Andy From Sligo

this is how I figure we are getting our broadband through ADSL im pretty sure of it - i may be wrong but this is how I have sussed it out, also backs up my theory as when it rains heavy our Internet cuts out and so does the Dial tone!

- so im thinking the heavy rain cuts out the wireless signal between the dish at the exchange box and the mountain broadcasting mast (especially if the dish is not aligned properly which I would bet on, a bit like if your sky dish is not aligned properly and you loose picture or it goes pixally and blocky when it rains) I reckon if someone went up to the park tomorrow and pulled the mast down next to the exchange box (dont even think about it anyone! :eek: ) the whole of Coolaney village would loose their ADSL broadband Internet (and most probably) landline telephone dial tone

anyway, here is a (poor) picture ive done using paint to show how I think we are getting our broadband:

Andy From Sligo

SpaceTime wrote: »

Coolaney seems to be part of the area covered by Ballymote which has e-fibre rolled out. The main street in Coolaney comes up as having live e-fibre.

Id love you to be right and for me to be proved wrong but i dont think we in Coolaney are served by Ballmote - we have our own exchange in Coolaney up at the football pitch/park and I think the exchange box is fed wirelessly by signal from a mast on the coolaney OX Mountains. - Where did you see that main street in coolaney is live with e-fibre if you dont mind me asking? - we are just around corner from the main street.

SpaceTime

Try entering your address here:

http://www.eircom.net/efibreinfo/map

That little box is not really 'an exchange' per se, it's just a remote part of an actual exchange linked up by microwave by the sounds of it.

Andy From Sligo

Simi wrote: »

The 384kb/s upload (and the 7mb/s download) are artificial limits imposed on old ADSL exchanges. Our home broadband started at 8mb/s down 768kb/s, before being lowered to 7.6mb/s down 512kb/s up & finally down to the current limits.

It's primary effect (intentional or not) is to cripple users ability to torrent or utilise cloud services. It's a great deterrent tbh.

Thats what I reckon happened with me, no matter what the eircom support bloke says about 384kbps being the most i can get on our line blaming it on the exchange box im pretty sure at one time I was getting 768kbps upload, but hes got me wondering and doubting myself!

SpaceTime

Double checked again, another eircom press release says you'll be getting FTTC (E fibre) in July ... 2016...

The problem with your current system is probably that the exchange is back hauling everything over a microwave link that has limited capacity. It could be IP or ATM based but the issue is the same. The whole thing - voice and ADSL data is sharing one narrow pipe via the microwave link.

That cabinet is most likely some kind of modern MSAN (multi service access node) that's hosted at Ballymote exchange.

Andy From Sligo

SpaceTime wrote: »

Double checked again, another eircom press release says you'll be getting FTTC (E fibre) in July ... 2016...

oh, blimey I cant be dealing with these poor upload rate of 384kbps upload and 5mb down until July 2016! its gonna drive me mad - I reckon I will have to go with Fastcom soon 12mb down 2mb up one day - but how to get out of the 12/18 month contract with vodafone home broadband thats what im thinking?

Andy From Sligo

SpaceTime wrote: »

The problem with your current system is probably that the exchange is back hauling everything over a microwave link that has limited capacity. It could be IP or ATM based but the issue is the same. The whole thing - voice and ADSL data is sharing one narrow pipe via the microwave link....

even as far as I know the Fastcom dish on the mast on the Ox Mountains is not a main relay and that it gets its signal from Truskmore in Sligo I think. Sometimes at these times when your looking to get better broadband it really stinks when you live in a rural area

Mayo Yid

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

even as far as I know the Fastcom dish on the mast on the Ox Mountains is not a main relay and that it gets its signal from Truskmore in Sligo I think. Sometimes at these times when your looking to get better broadband it really stinks when you live in a rural area

It's the best you're going to get. You obviously know nothing about fixed wireless it's not like mobile where the speeds quoted are what everyone shares. It's all fixed install, if the signal isn't good enough they won't install it. Everyone gets a fixed install with the best possible signal. Nobody is mobile, so they have full control of the speeds.

Andy From Sligo

strangely I have just put my number in the eircom business broadband line checker and it says my line tests for upload 1mb and download 20mb - strange that after the eircom support fella telling me i cannot get more than 384kbps upload because of my exchange - i wish everyone sung from the same hymn sheet - somebody is wrong, is it the support guy ... or the website!! :

SpaceTime

It's possible that the line checker is just looking at stats from the exchange to your house.
It's possibly assuming that the exchange has a normal connection to the backhaul network.

The choke point would appear to be between your local exchange and its parent node.

If there are outages during bad weather, especially of the PSTN services you should keep lodging complaints. Also get talking to your neighbours and get the local TDs involved.
Also record the incidents and be prepared to file a complaint with ComReg.


Eircom has certain quality of service requirements for the PSTN network.

They should be able to replace that microwave link with a higher capacity, more reliable one even without needing to run new fibre.

ED E

Your diagram is correct Andy, thats exactly how it works. The virtual paths will mean if the link degrades voice traffic will be the last thing to halt.

These links are quite susceptible to problems, Achill sound went offline due to some trees a while ago.

Ignore the line checker, its just measuring your loop length, doesnt account for backhaul limitations.

MBSnr

Simi wrote: »

The 384kb/s upload (and the 7mb/s download) are artificial limits imposed on old ADSL exchanges. Our home broadband started at 8mb/s down 768kb/s, before being lowered to 7.6mb/s down 512kb/s up & finally down to the current limits.

It's primary effect (intentional or not) is to cripple users ability to torrent or utilise cloud services. It's a great deterrent tbh.

I guess it's that way since ADSL has been around from 1999 and when the standard was designed they never envisioned the need for video real time comms or cloud services. It was expected you'd download only and the upload used primarily for requests for content.

SpaceTime

Well, it's likely that the local exchange already supports ADSL2+ but the backhaul doesn't make it viable to even switch on.

A lot of small towns also had big expansions with new homes being built during the Celtic tiger era. Eircom seem to have upgraded the local exchange to provide phone lines but not the capacity on the links back to the nearest hub.

It's also likely that these systems were planned with early 2000s uptake and data loads in mind. Services of 2 Mbit/s were fast back then.