Cross on summit of Carrauntoohil cut down with angle grinder (Warning: contains TLAs)

SpaceTime

To me it just shows that attitudinally Ireland in 2014 is FAR more like the rest of Northern Europe than some people would like to think.

Absolam

SpaceTime wrote: »

To me it just shows that attitudinally Ireland in 2014 is FAR more like the rest of Northern Europe than some people would like to think.

The people who think we're mired in Catholic indoctrination and parochialism (and we're going to pay for it!), or the people who think we've hedonistically abandoned our culture and traditional values(and we're going to pay for it!)?

Peregrinus

Shrap wrote: »

That's a very encouraging piece of research! I'm loving how the Irish are the only people who do not skip or refuse to answer this question: "Irrespective of whether you attend a place of worship or not, would you say you are a religious
person, not a religious persons or a convinced atheist?" To me, it shows a greater degree of thought on the subject.

Unfortunately, it doesn't tell us much detail about the thought. "I'm not a religious person" could mean "I am totally uninterested in religious questions and have no opinions on them" or it could mean "I have views on spiritual/supernatural questions but they are not such as to impact much on my life in practice" or it could mean "I am a conventional religious believer, just not very observant", or anything in between. My earlier point was that, while we have a fair amount of research into the beliefs and practices of people who identify as Catholic, or religious, etc, we don't have anything like as much into the beliefs and practics of people who identify as atheists, agnostics or people of no religion.

While this survey confirms that people who identify as "atheists" or "not religious" are a signficant and growing community in Ireland (and that "not religious is much larger and much faster growing than "atheist") this does little more than confirm what the much-derided census has already told us. But it tells us othing about the what atheists or not-religious people beleive or practice.

expectationlost

https://twitter.com/CARRAUNTOOHIL1

is that a cairn or just a stone wind shelter?

Cairn - unclassified KE073-047 Townland: COOMCALLEE
A cairn of dubious antiquity is located on the summit of CarrauntoohilDescription: A cairn of dubious antiquity is located on the summit of Carrauntoohil, the highest mountain in Ireland. Measuring 6m x 5m in overall dimensions, it is composed of loose, flat slabs, gathered from the scree on the mountain summit. The site was once described as a pile of stones (Hayward 1945, 83), but has since been modified for use as a climbers' shelter. Two other shelters occur on the summit. A large iron cross was erected N of the cairn in 1950.

The above description is derived from A. O'Sullivan and J. Sheehan (compilers), 'The Iveragh peninsula: an archaeological survey of South Kerry'. Cork University Press (1996), no. 383. In certain instances the entries have been revised and updated in the light of recent research.

Cairn - unclassified
A mound constructed primarily of stone which cannot be classified as a specific cairn type. These can date to any period from prehistory onwards. The term cairn is derived from the Irish word 'carn' meaning a heap or pile of stones. See also Burial-cairn, Radial-stone cairn, Cairn circle, Ring-cairn, Clearance cairn, Cairnfield, Boundary cairn and Wayside cairn.

so cairns can be religious/spiritual

from archeaology.ie Date of upload: 28 July 2013

SpaceTime

SpaceTime wrote: »

To me it just shows that attitudinally Ireland in 2014 is FAR more like the rest of Northern Europe than some people would like to think.

You just wait until the next abortion referendum......!

looksee

Question: Irrespective of whether you attend a place of worship or not, would you say you are a religious person, not a religious persons or a convinced atheist?

I would think the natural response to this question would be 'compared with what?'.

robindch

Shock! Horror! Alarm Bells! Contact the police, the army! Some heathen bastard has removed a religious symbol from atop mountain in Northern Ireland!

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30919259



Only of course, this is the wrong religion, so people will remain quiet and splendidly unruffled about the whole thing.

seamus

You know if it was copper or bronze, I could understand that some...um...groups might be inclined to steal it and sell it for scrap. But fibreglass and stainless steel? Probably cost more to run the angle grinder to cut it down than they'd get in scrap value.

Though maybe I'm giving them too much credit and they assumed it was valuable.

shruikan2553

robindch wrote: »

Shock! Horror! Alarm Bells! Contact the police, the army! Some heathen bastard has removed a religious symbol from atop mountain in Northern Ireland!

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30919259



Only of course, this is the wrong religion, so people will remain quiet and splendidly unruffled about the whole thing.

I can't see this one taking off. Looks like Christian involvement so of course we have to remember that the people involved don't represent all Christians, only other groups are represented by a minority.

robindch

seamus wrote: »

Though maybe I'm giving them too much credit and they assumed it was valuable.

Given the threatening note that was left behind, I'm inclined to think that this heinous crime was perpetrated by somebody with a religious agenda:

BBC wrote:

The thieves left a wooden cross in place of the statue with the words 'You shall have no other gods before me'

recedite

The culprits seem to have actually read the bible, therefore it must have been nordy protestants :pac:
Interesting fact; Mananann is most associated with the Isle of Man, hence the name.

kylith

Absolutely awful. Fck Christianity, which is just an Eastern blow-in, Mananann is a symbol of actual Irish heritage which these people have destroyed.

robindch

kylith wrote: »

Absolutely awful. Fck Christianity, which is just an Eastern blow-in, Mananann is a symbol of actual Irish heritage which these people have destroyed.

Dare I suggest that given the note left behind, it's plausible to think that the people who did this might be descendants of blow-ins themselves.

magicbastarder

if i was a god, i'd expect idolatry built out of something a bit more godlike than fibreglass.

Shrap

kylith wrote: »

Absolutely awful. Fck Christianity, which is just an Eastern blow-in, Mananann is a symbol of actual Irish heritage which these people have destroyed.

I know! I'm SO much more offended by this. Outraged, even....on behalf of the sculptor and the community who paid him to make a sculpture, but not on behalf of whatever deity it was in aid of. I'm much more gutted by wanton destruction of a piece of art than a cast iron cross. Does that make me conflicted?

Hotblack Desiato

magicbastarder wrote: »

if i was a god, i'd expect idolatry built out of something a bit more godlike than fibreglass.

Makes it easy to replace though - if he still has the mould...

Shrap

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Makes it easy to replace though - if he still has the mould...

Easier, but the casting would be a huge process, with a lot of steel running through it for strength. The initial carving and mold making would be about 2/3's of the job. It's a massive amount of work. Very surprised they got it for only £10,000 tbh.

Hope he still has the mold

Brian Shanahan

robindch wrote: »

Dare I suggest that given the note left behind, it's plausible to think that the people who did this might be descendants of blow-ins themselves.

Who themselves descended from blow-outs. The Ulster prods mostly descended from Scots from an area which was largely colonised by Ulster Gaels in the first millenium.

Hotblack Desiato

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/theft-of-statue-in-co-derry-could-be-linked-to-fanatical-religion-1.2076212

Limavady Council in Co Derry reported the theft of the statue of the Irish mythological god of the sea, Manannán mac Lir, which went missing from Gortmore viewing point on Binevenagh mountain on Wednesday.

A mythological god, hmmm - that wouldn't be one of the gods with ample evidence of their existence, obviously.

smokingman

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/theft-of-statue-in-co-derry-could-be-linked-to-fanatical-religion-1.2076212



A mythological god, hmmm - that wouldn't be one of the gods with ample evidence of their existence, obviously.

Always wondered about that as a kid. "Why are the mythological gods far cooler than the one I'm told is the only one about now"; so my young mind mused...

Hotblack Desiato

...

submission to Irish Times lettersed wrote:

Sir,

I read your report of January 22nd ("Theft of statue in Co Derry could be linked to fanatical religion") and its reference to the "mythological god" of the sea, Manannán mac Lir and was left with some confusion.

I trust the Irish Times has ample evidence in its possession to differentiate Manannán as a "mythological god" from the other less mythological gods, and particularly those featured in the Rite and Reason section of the newspaper.
This evidence should be published in full immediately. One would not wish to be led astray and miss out on one's possible eternal reward simply due to lack of support in a national newspaper for what may turn out to be the correct god.

In the meantime we atheists shall look at Manannán with equal bemusement as we regard all other unsubstantiated deities.

Yours etc.,

jank

Whoever did this was a douchebag.

Pherekydes

jank wrote: »

Whoever did this was a douchebag.

The writer of the above letter to the IT or the person who cut down the statue? :pac:

jank

Isn't it obvious?

robindch

Police are looking into "the religious aspect" of the crime.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30934332

You'd have thought the criminals would have stuck the cross up straight:

swampgas

I guess the "Do not steal" commandment was rather conveniently ignored by whoever did this too.

jank

swampgas wrote: »

I guess the "Do not steal" commandment was rather conveniently ignored by whoever did this too.

Absolutely! I wonder what moral code did the person who cut down the Cross on Carrauntoohil break?

swampgas

jank wrote: »

Absolutely! I wonder what moral code did the person who cut down the Cross on Carrauntoohil break?

Is there a commandment "Thou shalt not vandalise thy neighbour's cross" ?

The cross-cutter was certainly a vandal, but they didn't actually steal the cross off the mountain either. And in any case, it's not like the cross-cutter was claiming Biblical justification for his actions.

It's ironic that someone (presumably quite religious) would stick a wooden cross with the 1st commandment written on it in place of a valuable statue that they stole in direct contravention of the seventh.

.

shruikan2553

swampgas wrote: »

Is there a commandment "Thou shalt not vandalise thy neighbour's cross" ?

The cross-cutter was certainly a vandal, but they didn't actually steal the cross off the mountain either. And in any case, it's not like the cross-cutter was claiming Biblical justification for his actions.

It's ironic that someone (presumably quite religious) would stick a wooden cross with the 1st commandment written on it in place of a valuable statue that they stole in direct contravention of the seventh.

.

They haven't got that far through them. Probably currently working on the second.

PopePalpatine

swampgas wrote: »

Is there a commandment "Thou shalt not vandalise thy neighbour's cross" ?

The cross-cutter was certainly a vandal, but they didn't actually steal the cross off the mountain either. And in any case, it's not like the cross-cutter was claiming Biblical justification for his actions.

It's ironic that someone (presumably quite religious) would stick a wooden cross with the 1st commandment written on it in place of a valuable statue that they stole in direct contravention of the seventh.

.

Perhaps the vandals dumped the statue rather than hold onto it, as a sort of loophole in the 7th commandment.