Why does ireland have one of the highest suicide rates?

the_syco

Fuhrer wrote: »

But again, we dont have a high rate of Suicide. At least not comparatively.

Unless you're found at the end of a rope, next to a bucket of pills, or with a note, it's generally listed as an accident to avoid embarrassment to the family.

And thus very low rates, as it's rarely listed as suicide.

I wonder could you find the "accidental death rate", and how that'd compare to the high suicide rates in other countries?

Captain Chaos

Same with alot of road accidents. Many times they see high speed crashes where a car has left the road at high speed into a tree or wall and no attempt was made to brake or swerve as there is no sign of tire marks or rubber on the road.

Donkey Oaty

Amazingfun wrote: »

Anyways: could you link these stats you mention here?

Exact figures vary, but take WHO stats from 2011:

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/suicide/by-country/

nadey

nadey wrote: »

So its not a problem, ok, just hope it never happens to one of your loved ones

I can not find a single post before this on the thread suggesting it is "not a problem". Are you reading the same thread as I am?

However I think the attempt to find an explanation for the quantity of suicides we do have in our country - which is not "one of the highest in the world" as you claimed - is likely futile.

For each person engaged in it there is likely a range of differing reasons and you will not find a handful of neat catch all explanations for it.

From the Vipassana class I give for free I find one of the biggest causes of things is the increasing demands of a modern world. The balance between the self, and what the self has to give in terms of stress - working hours - and more has skewed for many people. They do not have this balance and eventually somethings gotta snap.

The increasing complexities of what a modern middle class life entails - smart phones, televisions, blue ray players, music systems and much more - as another person said materialism society - take much more resources to finance and use and so forth.

We are also an increasingly insular world. We sit in our appartments cut off - we commute long commutes to work locked in a box of metal on wheels - we do our work - and then return home. Human contact and interaction suffers from this. We are lonlier and the number of personals ads, and "How do i find someone" threads on self help forums like the one here testify to this.

We even have less time to spend with our children on a whole with both parents working - often long and tiring hours - and not only does the time available to us for family dwindle - our energy to enjoy the time that IS left does too.

And as others have said there are factors related to religion - or the loss of it - alcohol - and much more. And no hope from our depressions are found in our media which hand pick the most depressing stories of the depths of human depravity and horror to cheer us up every evening.

And the list goes on - much longer than I can fit here - but the point is clear. You are not going to get a short answer to the question by any stretch. It is a complex network of reasons all interacting - and all affecting each suicide victim in different quantities and combinations.

eviltwin

Why does Ireland have such a high suicide rate? Well that's the 6 million dollar question OP.

I've lost 3 people to suicide, one family member, two friends. I have been suicidal myself at one point in my life and have a child with depression and anxiety.

My problems were sorted out with counselling but I waited months to see someone. I am a public patient and the services if you aren't lucky enough to be able to pay for them are good but hard to come by. Waiting lists, lack of provision, red tape and sometimes unsympathetic medical professionals were my experience. Only for a wonderful supportive family and guilt about leaving my children I think I would have ended it, the struggle to find help was so hard.

Mental health in general isn't taken seriously enough for all the lip service we pay it.

Call Me Jimmy

For males I'd say the deprogramming of emotions is a biggie.

[more abstract]
We take for granted that we have it pretty much figured out, a lot of conviction that this is the way things are so it must be kind of right. Imo we're dumb to our own humanity. If we could go around like scrooge with a ghost of christmas present and see all the different ways society could be we'd get the picture. We'll cop on in a couple hundred years so we'll see then sure!

corner of hells

nadey wrote: »

Im actually using my fiancees account, hope that clears it up for you. I was also diagnosed with depression at a very young age and started on seroxat in 05

Your fiancee also contacted a boards help desk complaining that somebody has accessed his/her account asking that Mods delete the previous 12 hours posts.

Pretty nasty behaviour from whoever is using her account.

Graces7

strobe wrote: »

Well we don't have one of the highest suicide rates, not by quite a way, as people have pointed out. But we should ideally of course be aiming for the lowest rate.

I'm sure there's a lot of factors involved in suicide, as people have mentioned, but one not mentioned that I certainly don't think helps matters is the rapid (mis)diagnoses of depression and (over)prescription of anti-depressants tbh. I'm not some anti-medication nut or something, far from it, I believe anti-depressants save lives in many instances. But surely to Christ there has to be something wrong with General Practitioners diagnosing people with depression after a one off 15-30 minute chat and then prescribing up to six months of medication at a time, many of which can have side effects that are very detrimental to over-all quality of life (sexual dysfunction, sleep issues, suicidal ideation, etc) and can be very difficult to cease the use of?

I also don't think the insistence of some of those with depression to others that depression "is something that can never be beaten and will be with you all your life" is very helpful at all and physically wince when I see it trotted out on here and else where. A load of bollox if ever I heard it and a very dangerous thing to be saying to people that may be struggling to hang in there.

Resonating with this. I lost 30 years of effective life in the UK because of a misdiagnosis and wring medical treatment.. depression and anxiety they said, oh and agoraphobia.. apparently I would never manage ever without meds..
Yep handed out automatically month after month..

That I was frequently suicidal proved to them that they were right, And if you want to see lack of sympathy.. in and out of mental hospitals.. ect... drug after drug.. involuntary tranx addiction..

The internet saved me. I started reading and questioning and checked everything I was taking, both the drug firms write up and support group, real people trying to cope.

Suicidal ideation was a well known side effect of several of the meds I was on.

Finally I got the correct diagnosis; I have M.E and have had for the thirty years.

So I took a year to get off all meds and LO! No more suicidal thoughts and gradually the world became a better place. My mind was free and I could cope with more.. The withdrawals were so appalling I knew how dangerous the drugs are. !5 years later I was still getting attacks of facial neuralgia.i
Never told the drs and the drugs kept rolling in and i was scared to tell them in case I failed to get off them. I had excellent and well informed support online.. finally parcelled up all the meds and sent them to a medical mission

The next years were wonderful; creative, active, real. I got my medical record set right and left the UK.; never looked back and never again accepted any meds without checking first.

How I am still alive after the ODs I dont know, but now every time i get prescribed any meds I check online, read the small print and then decide if I want it. Refused steroids for ashthma... refused benzos that are still handed out like smarties.

It is not the stigma that causes suicide. A lot is chemical, the meds and alcohol that affect mood and mind drastically and yes I had a time of drinking too much in my desperation.

The samaritans sometimes helped but sometimes made it worse. Like the time I had had an eviction notice and called them in desperation to find I was talking to my landlady.

A lot too is misdiagnosis at GP level. Like the lady I met in a medical ward who had been sectioned to mental hosptial... he had apparently gone berserk. Thankfully they did a routine chest X ray and found an abcess in her lung..

Being there for folk too; hard as the impulse to self harm seeks to hide, Once talked a friend down on the phone. I insisted she talk.

Suicide is a lonely impulse of momentary desperation. Maybe we need to think of more discipline for our kids. I dont have an answer. But know that many psych drugs have terrible side effects. Making a choice is your prerogative but please let the choice be informed, fully informed and there are some great support group online...

Graces7

eviltwin wrote: »

Why does Ireland have such a high suicide rate? Well that's the 6 million dollar question OP.

I've lost 3 people to suicide, one family member, two friends. I have been suicidal myself at one point in my life and have a child with depression and anxiety.

My problems were sorted out with counselling but I waited months to see someone. I am a public patient and the services if you aren't lucky enough to be able to pay for them are good but hard to come by. Waiting lists, lack of provision, red tape and sometimes unsympathetic medical professionals were my experience. Only for a wonderful supportive family and guilt about leaving my children I think I would have ended it, the struggle to find help was so hard.

Mental health in general isn't taken seriously enough for all the lip service we pay it.

This surely is the key. As is being there for friends and family and not relying on "professionals" .

Good for you! Grand reading!

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

I can not find a single post before this on the thread suggesting it is "not a problem". Are you reading the same thread as I am?

However I think the attempt to find an explanation for the quantity of suicides we do have in our country - which is not "one of the highest in the world" as you claimed - is likely futile.

For each person engaged in it there is likely a range of differing reasons and you will not find a handful of neat catch all explanations for it.

From the Vipassana class I give for free I find one of the biggest causes of things is the increasing demands of a modern world. The balance between the self, and what the self has to give in terms of stress - working hours - and more has skewed for many people. They do not have this balance and eventually somethings gotta snap.

The increasing complexities of what a modern middle class life entails - smart phones, televisions, blue ray players, music systems and much more - as another person said materialism society - take much more resources to finance and use and so forth.

We are also an increasingly insular world. We sit in our appartments cut off - we commute long commutes to work locked in a box of metal on wheels - we do our work - and then return home. Human contact and interaction suffers from this. We are lonlier and the number of personals ads, and "How do i find someone" threads on self help forums like the one here testify to this.

We even have less time to spend with our children on a whole with both parents working - often long and tiring hours - and not only does the time available to us for family dwindle - our energy to enjoy the time that IS left does too.

And as others have said there are factors related to religion - or the loss of it - alcohol - and much more. And no hope from our depressions are found in our media which hand pick the most depressing stories of the depths of human depravity and horror to cheer us up every evening.

And the list goes on - much longer than I can fit here - but the point is clear. You are not gs oing to get a short answer to the question by any stretch. It is a complex network of reasons all interacting - and all affecting each suicide victim in different quantities and combinations.

In the US many opt out of much of this and indeed this is what I have done as I was and am too ill to be out much .... ask youtube for downsizing and living off the grid for extreme measures!

Relative poverty has helped me too and I have no interest in papers or tv. I glean news here.

On AH it is interesting to see how many more posts there are on Trivial things that annoy then on Trivial thing that make you happy

Maybe think laterally; what each of us can do to support others, to be aware quietly when family or friends are struggling. You may never know how many times you save a life just with a phone call or a chat or being there. It i breathtakingly simple.

Colinf1212

deadybai wrote: »

Because we are a backwards country in a modern world. Depression is still frowned upon in Ireland. Especially in rural villages and towns. 3 young men that I went to school with (all from the same area) committed suicide since we left school 3 years ago. There was also a few when I was in school. Its appauling that only in the last year or so that we are waking up to this.
If you are any way different, your fecked. If you dont fit in to Irish society your fecked.

Whinge whinge whinge. I've never dealt with this attitude towards my depression in rural or city areas. I'm assuming you have, yeah?

Same with the OP. Nice hyperbole; it doesn't have one of the highest suicide rates. And how can you ask a question like that in the thread title? Socrates the second over here.

No idea why this idiotic thread is still up.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

In the US many opt out of much of this and indeed this is what I have done as I was and am too ill to be out much .... ask youtube for downsizing and living off the grid for extreme measures!

Id never go to the extremes some people do - but I do like living "off grid" in as many ways as I can. Growing or rearing my own food and the like. Many things like that. Like you - no television here either.

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

Id never go to the extremes some people do - but I do like living "off grid" in as many ways as I can. Growing or rearing my own food and the like. Many things like that. Like you - no television here either.

I know; they are American after all! But simplifying is a different matter. We else get bombarded on TV and the internet news with every violent and bad thing happening around the world. I don't think we are meant to take all that on board. And the way social networking replaces real relationships. I opted out of that saying I do not want to chat to anyone I will never meet.. I never last very long on boards either.

mickstupp

Colinf1212 wrote: »

Whinge whinge whinge. I've never dealt with this attitude towards my depression in rural or city areas. I'm assuming you have, yeah?

Same with the OP. Nice hyperbole; it doesn't have one of the highest suicide rates. And how can you ask a question like that in the thread title? Socrates the second over here.

No idea why this idiotic thread is still up.

Yes it does. There's over 190 countries in the world. So if we're 47th in the world, we've one of the highest suicide rates in the world. In fact, we've incredibly more suicides per 100,000 citizens than even the likes of Syria and Afghanistan. If places plagued by war can do so much better at keeping their citizens from resorting to suicide, then yes we have a serious problem here, and it's clear there's a whole lot of people trying to play it down.

I think dismissive attitudes to mental health in general are a contributing factor. People feel more alone when they reach out and get told, 'Ah yer grand', 'Maybe try not feeling bad', 'Cheer up', 'Sure it's not a big deal, other countries have it worse', 'Everyone gets depressed now and then'... all of which, in my view, adds up to: you're nothing special, there's nothing different about your condition, put up with it, alone, because we'll have no sympathy for you.

It's an incredibly isolating country to live in sometimes.

Anyway, no matter where we are in some morbid league table, the important question is why the suicide rate is so high here. Last I saw there were more people dying by suicide than road accident. That's a disgrace.

jimgoose

rusty cole wrote: »

...

I prefer Achilles, from "Troy":

"I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again."

The beauty of it is that we know we haven't a hope in Hell. The Universe always wins, and doesn't give a damn about any one of us. And what do we do? We laugh at it. Flip it the bird, and get up, get into our cars and go to work, and laugh and sing and pull pranks, and why? Because we can. That's what we do.

I think there is an increasingly hard, selfish attitude creeping into Irish society, I don't know if it's because of the Government, all the financial shenanigans or what, but it seems some people can't cope with it and need help. Try to play a bit nicer and gentler, kids.

Donkey Oaty

mickstupp wrote: »

Last I saw there were more people dying by suicide than road accident. That's a disgrace.

It says as much about improved road safety as it does about suicide rates though - we have had a 44% reduction in road fatalities from 2007 to 2013. (RSA figures).

Colinf1212

mickstupp wrote: »

Yes it does. There's over 190 countries in the world. So if we're 47th in the world, we've one of the highest suicide rates in the world. In fact, we've incredibly more suicides per 100,000 citizens than even the likes of Syria and Afghanistan. If places plagued by war can do so much better at keeping their citizens from resorting to suicide, then yes we have a serious problem here, and it's clear there's a whole lot of people trying to play it down.

I think dismissive attitudes to mental health in general are a contributing factor. People feel more alone when they reach out and get told, 'Ah yer grand', 'Maybe try not feeling bad', 'Cheer up', 'Sure it's not a big deal, other countries have it worse', 'Everyone gets depressed now and then'... all of which, in my view, adds up to: you're nothing special, there's nothing different about your condition, put up with it, alone, because we'll have no sympathy for you.

It's an incredibly isolating country to live in sometimes.

Anyway, no matter where we are in some morbid league table, the important question is why the suicide rate is so high here. Last I saw there were more people dying by suicide than road accident. That's a disgrace.

Actually the study done by the World Health Organisation that got the 47th stat was out of 110 countries, not 190. So it's 47th out of 110. Ireland is below the mightiest of all countries; The Great United Kingdom (should be the new name for the country on this board).

Dismissive health responses like that are given out in every country. Go visit a depression forum for yourself and try and view the world around you to get a reference point before you spout anti-Irish whinging. Those replies are a common theme online that depressed people all over the world complain about...

It's an isolating country for you to live in most likely. This is subjective, not fact. If I was constantly whinging or making large generalizations of millions of people I wouldn't expect to have many friends. Irish culture is known for creating large families so I don't see where you picked that one from other than your own personal bitter experience.

mickstupp wrote: »

Anyway, no matter where we are in some morbid league table, the important question is why the suicide rate is so high here.

47 out of 110 wouldn't be categorized as high. It's pedantic to say otherwise. Most of the other countries below Ireland are 3rd world where people are too busy struggling to contemplate suicide.

Most likely the OPs intention was to open a barage of anti-Irish comments that are typical on here. I wonder will these bitter people ever get bored. Do they see themselves as holy Gods looking down at Irish people passing judgement? Or do they put themselves in the Irish category when going on their rants? I wonder.

Galway K9

I was very suicidal when i was late teens, mostly down to environmental depression and my anxiety / panic attacks.

I was bent over in fear of having a heart attack that it got so bad, i was watching a movie "shawshank" and he said "get busy living, or get busy dying", after that i started working on myself, therapy, books, exercise....and if i believed in God i would thank him for what i have today. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

ulinbac

RedemptionZ wrote: »

The only way I got some treatment was from a suicide attempt. That was when I was 16 so still technically a child. Once I turned 18 I was told I was too old and would be referred to somewhere else. Never got a call for a year. Hospitalised again and then got a referral to a public clinic, which to be fair did the best they could but due to limited resources it wasn't top quality treatment I was getting and eventually found I wasn't getting much out of the service. Got a referral from my GP to a private place. Told I'd be waiting 7 months minimum for an appointment. Now I'm basically in limbo with not much on offer.

It honestly seems the only way you get treated is if you are hospitalised. They do seem to give some priority there, but at that stage so much damage is already done.

I feel it should be said too I come from quite a wealthy family and the services available to me in this country are extremely limited, for people not so lucky financially it would be even tougher as private wouldn't even be an option.

Going to call bull on this. If you are quite wealthy why not pay for a private therapist? I went to hospital suicidal, called my parents and they came stay with me. Had an awful night, went back to Vincents and was hospitalised that afternoon in SJOG. Was there for 5 weeks. The day before I was admitted I had already booked a therapist the next day and had one lined up when I came out of hospital.

Upon leaving hospital, I started therapy the following week and went to Recovery Inc. (Like aware) for 6 months. I see a private shrink every 6 months for a catch up and never been better.

You say you are stuck in limbo. There are plenty of books, private therapists and meetings widely available for an affordable price.

What I don't understand is the amount of people that just wait for others to start their treatment of anxiety and depression. In hospital I received treatment but I was researching anxiety disorder, joined Panic Away and took notes. My side drawer had books I used to study every day. Meditation is unbelievable at treating depression and anxiety. After one week out of hospital I went back to work. Screw being stuck in a house with just your thoughts. In our section the people who went back to work and actively sought more resources after leaving hospital are doing very well. The ones that just went home and sat on the couch, not so good. So much so that it was easier to break contact.

Even if you're not wealthy, there is no reason to be in limbo. It's like, how bad does the person want to be cured and they are kicking and screaming saying they want it, but really deep down they don't cause they won't work on it!

Yes, Irish mental health resources need improving; but the ones available are really good too!!

conorhal

Eramen wrote: »

So the crux of what you're saying is that we must conform to diversity? I have to confess that this makes little sense.

People in general are acceptant of almost every type of personality, and even some of the more outlandish personality issues, however they are not tolerant of people who substitute their ideology in place of their personality, as you have done. Too often people wear their politics, hence their sub-cultural 'identity' on their sleeves, and this leads to wholesale social friction as people force it into the public sphere where is seeks to demolish other people's sense of being. This 'tension' is really what you're relating to.

People must learn to stop wearing their superficial 'beliefs' and other pseudo-political moralities in place of their genuine character if we want to go anywhere as a society. Society is based on compromise and reason.. it's not based on one's own personal intellectual fantasies which others 'must' simply comply with or else they must face the wrath of your right to be offended.

Excellent post Eramen.

The West has substituted consumerism for culture and that is at the crux of this issue you describe, when your value in society is measured in consumer goods the result is what Durkheim described as 'anomie'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomie

The resultant loss of social cohesion and moral authority and the lack of legitimate aspirations when you have a growing gap between what people aspire to and what people can have often leads to a sense of hopelesness and worthlessness. A simple example would be 'facebook envy', people with facebook accounts report that the feel miserable about their lives as compared with their friends:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/22/us-facebook-envy-idUSBRE90L0N220130122

The decline of society as a coherent concept has left many adrift and I think that people in the internet age are more isolated and ironically disconected then ever before.

We have utterly failed to provide basic mental health services in this country, most of them are 9-5 Monday to Friday services. If you need help very little is available to the vunerable.

I think that the 'self help positivism' that we've imported from America also fuels depression in my opinion, we are less accepting that perhaps happiness is not our permanent natural state, we are always on the up or on the down and people are made feel guilty about 'feeling bad' as if it constitutes some sort of failure on their part to 'think positively'.

Our relationship with alcohol is also a major issue, the majority of suicides have high levels of drugs or alcohol in their systems, while this might constitute 'Dutch courage' for some, you have to wonder how many people might have self harmed as a result of alcohol reducing their ability to think rationally at the time. Alcohol is of course also a depressant.

Aeternum

Fuhrer wrote: »

Oh ok, thats how it works.

Only people who have had cancer and depression can confirm or deny your statement.


Out ****ing standing

I have had both. Both are hard - but honestly I struggled more with depression.

nadey

corner of hells wrote: »

Your fiancee also contacted a boards help desk complaining that somebody has accessed his/her account asking that Mods delete the previous 12 hours posts.

Pretty nasty behaviour from whoever is using her account.

this is nadey it was actually my fiancé who wrote those comments that I asked to be removed I didn't know it was him as I asked was he using my page and he said no but he thought i ment my facebook page

dont bother

Because... it's a kip!

OldNotWIse

Lack of proper mental health services? Untreated, chronic and rampant alcoholism? Stigma that still attadches to mental illness? Ireland is just a sh.ithole?