Why does ireland have one of the highest suicide rates?

The Strawman Argument

Most of the suicides that I've heard of back home of people over the age of 21 have been either farmers or people who had or recently closed a family business. There's a lot of pressure on the heirs to either of those lifestyles to conform to a ridiculous degree, legacy nonsense. I've old friends and relations who were aware they had no choice on the matter from a surprisingly young age. Security is viewed as being of total importance and personal happiness is close to irrelevant in the minds of a significant number of my own family and home region, at the very least.


With farming in particular, a lot of them wind up taking some kind of perverse pride in the hardship of their lifestyles too (or at least are unwilling to be openly critical about their chosen lifestyle), so bull**** about suicide being a coward's way out gets tossed about a hell of a lot.

Streetwalker

No proper mental health service to speak of and a highly materialistic society.

my teapot is orange

Eramen wrote: »

So the crux of what you're saying is that we must conform to diversity? I have to confess that this makes little sense.

People in general are acceptant of almost every type of personality, and even some of the more outlandish personality issues, however they are not tolerant of people who substitute their ideology in place of their personality, as you have done. Too often people wear their politics, hence their sub-cultural 'identity' on their sleeves, and this leads to wholesale social friction as people force it into the public sphere where is seeks to demolish other people's sense of being. This 'tension' is really what you're relating to.

People must learn to stop wearing their superficial 'beliefs' and other pseudo-political moralities in place of their genuine character if we want to go anywhere as a society. Society is based on compromise and reason.. it's not based on one's own personal intellectual fantasies which others 'must' simply comply with or else they must face the wrath of your right to be offended.

I did not say that we must "conform to diversity". I don't even know what that means. I said that it is easier for people to be themselves in an environment where there is not one uniform type.

How have I substituted my ideology for my personality? You don't know me and you can't comment on either of mine.

I don't understand the last paragraph at all. The last bit isn't a sentence.

Saipanne

Streetwalker wrote: »

No proper mental health service to speak of.

Unless you can afford it.

Donkey Oaty

Streetwalker wrote: »

No proper mental health service to speak of

There are serious improvements needed, but that analysis is a bit harsh.

TheBeardedLady

my teapot is orange wrote: »

I think it's cultural. There is too much social pressure to conform and be the same as everybody else. It's fine if you are fairly similar to the rest but must be a horrible existence if you're not. In other places, nobody will care or talk about the person who is quite different, or inquisitively want to know why. People just get on with their own lives.

I'm really curious where this is the case. Can you give an example?

tony007

Ireland has one of the lowest rates of suicide in the EU.

tony007

deadybai wrote: »

Because we are a backwards country in a modern world. Depression is still frowned upon in Ireland. Especially in rural villages and towns. 3 young men that I went to school with (all from the same area) committed suicide since we left school 3 years ago. There was also a few when I was in school. Its appauling that only in the last year or so that we are waking up to this.
If you are any way different, your fecked. If you dont fit in to Irish society your fecked.

We have one of the lowest rates of suicide in the EU.

Uncle Ruckus

Uncle Ruckus wrote: »

I used to have a fair few conversations about our high depression/suicide rate with my friends during our college years. We proposed stuff like Catholic sexual guilt trips and the ****ty weather. I don't think the Catholic repression thing is an issue anymore so maybe it's the weather and the drink culture. We tend to use booze as a coping mechanism...

There is still a different type of repression and a huge pressure to "fit in" in Ireland although it is decreasing. It's not easy to get rid of overnight.

Huge amount of snobbery and inverse snobbery around.

Eramen

my teapot is orange wrote: »

I did not say that we must "conform to diversity". I don't even know what that means. I said that it is easier for people to be themselves in an environment where there is not one uniform type.

How have I substituted my ideology for my personality? You don't know me and you can't comment on either of mine.

I don't understand the last paragraph at all. The last bit isn't a sentence.

'Diversity', in the way you have used it, is a politically charged term which reflects an absence of common values within a society. Instead it promotes a pluralism of values (treating completely contradictory value sets as being equal) in society. You're stating that it would be best to adopt a plurality of values as a solution to the reasons for suicide.

However, some people might argue that this type of society is inferior in nature as well as being ideologically motivated. It can be seen that stable, high longevity societies tend towards a harmonic social order which is founded upon a *unity* of values, customs, and ideals. That's to say that there is an agreed way of living, and one set of rules only for determining right and wrong i.e. a culture.

This social order is harmonious because all population segments aspire to and reinforce the same principles, morality and values that all must live by. This is true equality. Look at East Asia or the near east for successful replication of this. The West has been engaged in a permanent culture war since the 1960's, and this has undermined the confidence and cultural productivity of our people. It's created a society of 'pickers and choosers', people who think that the rules don't apply to them or that they deserve some sort of entitlement over others.

Diversity simply means to do whatever a person wants without regard for the well-being of others, as "my values are different from yours, I don't have to believe what you believe in, deal with it or I will take offense'. It's a fundamentally broken vision of how the world works.

my teapot is orange

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I'm really curious where this is the case. Can you give an example?

Just one random example of a place I've lived - London. You could be a 25 year old male, ballet-dancing poet and who's into taxidermy, raving and writing romantic novels. People won't give a sh$t.

Donkey Oaty

Eramen wrote: »

'Diversity', in the way you have used it, is a politically charged term which reflects an absence of common values within a society. Instead it promotes a pluralism of values (a set of completely different values and treats them as being equal) in society. You're stating that it would be best to adopt a plurality of values as a solution to the reasons for suicide.

However, some people might argue that this type of society is inferior in nature as well as being ideologically motivated. It can be seen that stable, high longevity societies tend towards a harmonic social order which is founded upon a unity of values, customs, and ideals. That's to say that there is an agreed way of living, and one set of rules determining right and wrong i.e. a culture.

This social order is harmonious because all population segments aspire and reinforce the same principles, morality and values that all must live by. This is true equality. Look at East Asia or the near east for successful replication of this. The West has been engaged in a permanent culture war since the 1960's, and this has undermined the confidence and cultural productivity of our people. It's created a society of 'pickers and choosers', people who think that the rules don't apply to them or that they deserve some sort of entitlement over others.

Diversity simply means to do whatever a person wants without regard for the well-being of others, as "my values are different from yours, I don't have to believe what you believe in, deal with it or I will take offense'.

I do not exaggerate when I say that this is one of the worst posts I've ever read.

BetterThanThou

Truthfully, I've been dealing with depression and anxiety for the last 2 and a half years or so, and I can say that the mental health care system in this country is absolute crap. I was given the option of taking drugs or getting no treatment, and drugs weren't something I was willing to take, I don't think someone should be turned away treatment just because they refuse to take drugs. Luckily, the last few weeks I've found a counsellor who has been helping me a lot, but for the 2 years before that, I was left with no kind of treatment due to my unwillingness to take drugs, had it not been for my best friend, quite honestly, in those 2 years I may have potentially done something that I wouldn't live to regret, some people are left totally alone suffering through the same stuff I did(and to a much lesser extent still do.), I don't see how someone can get refused treatment because they don't want to take drugs, hell, it's part of some people's lifestyle to not take drugs like that.

Eramen

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

I do not exaggerate when I say that this is one of the worst posts I've ever read.

Please.. I think every thinking mind will see right through that. Really you disagree and couldn't be arsed with coming up with anything decent in response. Study up bro.

Live outside of the West for a long period and it's obvious what I am relating to.

DeadHand

my teapot is orange wrote: »

You could be a 25 year old male, ballet-dancing poet and who's into taxidermy, raving and writing romantic novels. People won't give a sh$t.

You know...

I REALLY want to go for pints with that fella.

Does he exist?

JupiterKid

The drinking culture and general misuse/overuse of alcohol plays a huge part in our suicide rate. I recently heard a statistic that 93% of suicides in Ireland of people aged between 18 and 35 involved alcohol.

TheBeardedLady

my teapot is orange wrote: »

Just one random example of a place I've lived - London. You could be a 25 year old male, ballet-dancing poet and who's into taxidermy, raving and writing romantic novels. People won't give a sh$t.

Well that's generally the case in more urban areas, especially areas the size of London because of the anonymity. Compare London to a rural village in England. UK's suicide rate is higher that ours btw and I can imagine or presume incidents are higher in London than elsewhere in the UK.

I don't agree with your reason, basically.

nadey

BetterThanThou wrote: »

Truthfully, I've been dealing with depression and anxiety for the last 2 and a half years or so, and I can say that the mental health care system in this country is absolute crap. I was given the option of taking drugs or getting no treatment, and drugs weren't something I was willing to take, I don't think someone should be turned away treatment just because they refuse to take drugs. Luckily, the last few weeks I've found a counsellor who has been helping me a lot, but for the 2 years before that, I was left with no kind of treatment due to my unwillingness to take drugs, had it not been for my best friend, quite honestly, in those 2 years I may have potentially done something that I wouldn't live to regret, some people are left totally alone suffering through the same stuff I did(and to a much lesser extent still do.), I don't see how someone can get refused treatment because they don't want to take drugs, hell, it's part of some people's lifestyle to not take drugs like that.

True, its a joke. I was basically forced on paroxetine 10 years ago and im still on the crap to this day cos the withdrawal symptoms are hellish. Some people say its worse than going cold turkey from years of being a heroin addict. Most doctors are just drug dealers in suits with the big pharma being the kingpins paying the doctors to prescribe these dirty drugs

DeadHand

Eramen wrote: »

'Diversity', in the way you have used it, is a politically charged term which reflects an absence of common values within a society. Instead it promotes a pluralism of values (treating completely contradictory value sets as being equal) in society. You're stating that it would be best to adopt a plurality of values as a solution to the reasons for suicide.

However, some people might argue that this type of society is inferior in nature as well as being ideologically motivated. It can be seen that stable, high longevity societies tend towards a harmonic social order which is founded upon a *unity* of values, customs, and ideals. That's to say that there is an agreed way of living, and one set of rules only for determining right and wrong i.e. a culture.

This social order is harmonious because all population segments aspire to and reinforce the same principles, morality and values that all must live by. This is true equality. Look at East Asia or the near east for successful replication of this. The West has been engaged in a permanent culture war since the 1960's, and this has undermined the confidence and cultural productivity of our people. It's created a society of 'pickers and choosers', people who think that the rules don't apply to them or that they deserve some sort of entitlement over others.

Diversity simply means to do whatever a person wants without regard for the well-being of others, as "my values are different from yours, I don't have to believe what you believe in, deal with it or I will take offense'. It's a fundamentally broken vision of how the world works.

You're not Borg by any chance, are you?

Cantremember

I think the OP has been well answered by a lot of people. Maybe one thing: people don't put up with stuff anymore. They want it all sorted yesterday. If there's no hope on the horizon, then what's the point and death is the emergency exit.

my teapot is orange

DeadHand wrote: »

You know...

I REALLY want to go for pints with that fella.

Does he exist?

I dunno. I hope so.:D

strobe

Eramen wrote: »

'Diversity', in the way you have used it, is a politically charged term which reflects an absence of common values within a society. Instead it promotes a pluralism of values (treating completely contradictory value sets as being equal) in society. You're stating that it would be best to adopt a plurality of values as a solution to the reasons for suicide.

However, some people might argue that this type of society is inferior in nature as well as being ideologically motivated. It can be seen that stable, high longevity societies tend towards a harmonic social order which is founded upon a *unity* of values, customs, and ideals. That's to say that there is an agreed way of living, and one set of rules only for determining right and wrong i.e. a culture.

This social order is harmonious because all population segments aspire to and reinforce the same principles, morality and values that all must live by. This is true equality. Look at East Asia or the near east for successful replication of this. The West has been engaged in a permanent culture war since the 1960's, and this has undermined the confidence and cultural productivity of our people. It's created a society of 'pickers and choosers', people who think that the rules don't apply to them or that they deserve some sort of entitlement over others.

Diversity simply means to do whatever a person wants without regard for the well-being of others, as "my values are different from yours, I don't have to believe what you believe in, deal with it or I will take offense'. It's a fundamentally broken vision of how the world works.

And those that diverge? What is to be done with them Eramen?

Donkey Oaty

DeadHand wrote: »

You know...

I REALLY want to go for pints with that fella.

Does he exist?

The race is on to save him. We need to reach him before Eramen does, or our entire civilisation may be at risk.

my teapot is orange

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Well that's generally the case in more urban areas, especially areas the size of London because of the anonymity. Compare London to a rural village in England. UK's suicide rate is higher that ours btw and I can imagine or presume incidents are higher in London than elsewhere in the UK.

I don't agree with your reason, basically.

The Office of National Statistics have the breakdown by region on their website and London is consistently one of the lowest rates in the UK from what I see on their website.

TheBeardedLady

my teapot is orange wrote: »

The Office of National Statistics have the breakdown by region on their website and London is consistently one of the lowest rates in the UK from what I see on their website.

Are we comparing countries or cities here though?


Edit: That's interesting about London; I wouldn't have expected that.

my teapot is orange

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Are we comparing countries or cities here though?


Edit: That's interesting about London; I wouldn't have expected that.

I'm comparing city with rural living in Ireland and city with rural living in the UK and in both cases the rate is lower in the urban area. I'm not attempting to compare the UK with Ireland because I don't know what other factors might apply to one population and not the other.

It's just a little theory of mine, based on the feeling of freedom I felt while I was in London, not that I was ever particularly unhappy in rural Ireland, but I think it could be harder to be different. There are many advantages to Ireland too.

Penny Tration

To those of you who say your doctors essentially throw drugs at you - seriously, change doctors.

I completely agree that the treatment facilities for mental health issues are a shambles. I've been through them for 9 years.

However, my GP would NEVER throw tablets at me.

When I first saw her over my mental health, as a teenager, she immediately referred me to a psychiatrist, and prescribed me a low dose of meds to help me through until my appointment, because I was suicidal and there was a 4 month waiting list.

Nowadays, I know myself when I'm at a stage where I need medication. I have periods where I don't need it, but I don't kid myself. I'm bipolar, that is not going away. It's lifelong, unlike some other mental health illnesses, which can (in some cases) be cured.

Over the past few years, when I've gone through bad periods, it's gone like this -

Go to gp.

She discusses my feelings, mood, etc.

Immediate referral to a psychiatrist.

Referral for counselling, if we (both of us) think I need it.

Medication, if I'm bad enough that she and I both think we need it. If one of us doesn't think I need it, I don't get it, although she takes my opinions on board completely, because I pretty much know if I'm at a stage where I need medication.

She never, ever prescribes medication without also referring me to a psychiatrist and counsellor.

DeadHand

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

The race is on to save him. We need to reach him before Eramen does, or our entire civilisation may be at risk.

I was sent here from the future for this very purpose.

The ballet dancing, taxidermist, raving romantic novelist lad is the future leader of the human rebellion against Eramen.

Come With Me If You Want To live.

TheBeardedLady

my teapot is orange wrote: »

I'm comparing city with rural living in Ireland and city with rural living in the UK and in both cases the rate is lower in the urban area. I'm not attempting to compare the UK with Ireland because I don't know what other factors might apply to one population and not the other.

Ah okay. You're specifically talking about the causes of suicide in rural Ireland. Fair enough.

Eramen

strobe wrote: »

And those that diverge? What is to be done with them Eramen?

Most natural societies don't give people a reason to diverge. As I mentioned, it's best to look at other civilizations to gain an insight. They tend to have fewer cultural 'agitators' and have the intelligence to respect their own history, customs and traditions of the society. Namely I speak of people whom I have gotten to know hailing from India, Russia, Egypt and China.

You simply don't see them aimlessly criticizing their way of life, holidays, laws, religion, morality, language, etc as you would with a European/North American. In my experience, it's that Westerners are overly materialistic/seek a false sense of 'individuality' and are far more absorbed with their own self, than on the well-being of others.

They live for themselves, being more interested in their sexual orientation, politics, class, ideology, subcultural pursuits - and as result destroy the potential for collective progress or the elevation of common values. In short, the west is losing it's culture through proclaiming, without evidence, that 'everything is equal'.