What does middle class and working class mean to you personally?

steddyeddy

The Christmas lights "working class" thread got me wondering what these terms mean. I think it means (or most accurately describes) a person's attitudes to education, work and what type of interests they may have.

For instance a professor I had who came from a working class (low income background) obtained a triple major (don't think they offer those anymore) in chemistry, maths and biochemistry and became professor (eventually). Despite that some people still referred to him as working class.

On the other hand you have someone from a middle income family who dropped out of college and did nothing yet they are apparently middle class. What that says to me is it's not fair to call people middle or working class based on what family they're born into. You decide for yourself what class you are. XXXXX

BetterThanThou

Working class are the type of people on a wage where they get by and don't have much left for luxuries in my opinion, they'd have relatively few luxuries, live in a house that's just big enough for them, drive a reasonable car, they'd usually have jobs which don't require a huge amount of education.
Middle class are the type of people that can get by and also have a sizable chunk left, they can afford bigger luxuries, or an oversized house, and drive a nice car. They'd often be highly educated.

newmug

"Classes" are nothing but b0llox. Anybody who uses them loses all credibility in my eyes.

Sheep Lover

Middle Class - Employed

Working Class - Unemployed

Weirdly enough.

Kevin McCloud

There is no classes in the graveyard.

HalloweenJack

If you're upper class, you look down on everyone.

If you're middle class, you look down on working class people and complain about upper class people being snobs.

If you're working class, you complain about the snobs and boast about being the salt of the earth.

Either way, regardless of class, you think you're better than everyone.

This one is an odd one for me too!

I came from a very middle class background. In fact, growing up (I'm 33), people in the town thought we were "rich". Personally I haven't got a pot to p1ss in, but I get by quite happily without much money. I am definitely working class. My mother is still middle class. I never really stop to think about where I fit in.

I think I would put working class as less educated and perhaps not as... well, cultured, maybe, as I am, thanks to my upbringing (for which I am eternally grateful). Another thing I think I noticed with my middle-to-upper class parents was that they taught us never to look down on anyone; to the extent that I never even noticed we were a wealthy family until I was an adult. I just don't consider class at all.

Scrappychimow

No skangers and everything is ok

Turtwig

Class is what you mention when you want to avoid talking about income level. Best way to stifle a conservation on income inequality: class warfare.

The Backwards Man

Class means sound in Donegal.

You're all class!

annascott

People should not confuse wealth with class.

The Backwards Man

annascott wrote: »

People should not confuse wealth with class.

Or class with wealth.

K4t

Working Class = Bargain Alerts

Middle Class = After Hours

_Whimsical_

Deleted User wrote: »

Another thing I think I noticed with my middle-to-upper class parents was that they taught us never to look down on anyone; to the extent that I never even noticed we were a wealthy family until I was an adult. I just don't consider class at all.

I think that growing up you don't notice what other people have as long as you have enough yourself. You don't know struggle so you don't see struggle. You notice people who have more than you but you rarely people notice those who have less when you're a kid.

_Whimsical_

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I think that growing up you don't notice what other people have as long as you have enough yourself. You don't know struggle so you don't see struggle. You notice people who have more than you but you rarely people notice those who have less when you're a kid.

No, very good point though, but in my case didn't apply. I knew we had more than my friends - we were just never made to feel like this made us any way better. Like I loved to bring my friends over to play with my toys, and let them borrow them and take them home, because I was taught to be generous with what I had, and never take it for granted. Unlike certain "friends" of mine then who made me feel inches tall after we bought all our second hand horsey gear off them - because my family preferred to buy perfectly serviceable things as apposed to the newest, flashiest, best stuff. I knew I was privileged. I knew I had more than my mates. I just never thought I was better than them in any way because of it. In fact, I was envious of my best friend because she was smarter than me, while she was envious because my parents were more wealthy.

Cookie_Monster

Middle class - 3rd level education, working in a professional field of some sort with reasonably high barriers to entry.
Working class - 2nd level education or lower working in jobs that generally don't require a specific degree or qualification. essentially a job with little or low barriers to entry

Cpt Sh!t Craic

Working class and middle class are the same thing. We are all wage slaves.

The upper class oligarchs of big business and government have promoted patterns of thought amongst the working class in order to divide us and keep us under control. If the working class is divided then it will not unite and the oligarchy continues to prosper.

These perceived differences will only increase as capitalism continues to choke this country...

efb

Tired clichés

Tail Docker

Working class people wear colourful neck-scarves and hobnail boots. Middle class people work in the Bank and drive an Austin.

percy212

Upper class people keep their glasses on a chain and like to park them right at the end of their nose, just so they can look over them scarily, while reprimanding you for trailing coal dust across the masters larder.

Tail Docker wrote: »

Working class people wear colourful neck-scarves and hobnail boots. Middle class people work in the Bank and drive an Austin.

Into The Blue

Middle class is english term for non royals landed gentry. Doesn't apply to the Irish or any Republic.

We are all working class. Though ff tried to etch out a political class for themselves.

RDM_83 again

newmug wrote: »

"Classes" are nothing but b0llox. Anybody who uses them loses all credibility in my eyes.

Thats typical lower class thinking :P

I think that the groupings used in this survey make much more sense than the traditional 3 classes model. Boards will be full of "emergent service workers".
http://m.bbc.com/news/uk-22007058

Personally I think people forget that Ireland is a revolutionary state, we don't draw our 'ruling' class of politicians from the most traditionally upper class groupings or institutions (legal and financial groups yes)

PauloMN

* The bigger the television you have, the more working class you are. :pac:









* DISCLAIMER: The size of your TV is not a reliable indicator of how working class you are.

Fratton Fred

Someone's class is an indication of the state of mind of the person judging them.

Actual classes should be:

Scumbag class: those that use social welfare and crime as a lifestyle choice.
Normal people class: those that get up, go to work and get paid. I.E. 90% of the adult population.
Head up their own hole class: those that think that because they drive a ten year old range rover and have maxed out more credit cards than most people by shopping in a boutique in Donnybrook, somehow their **** stinks less than anyone else's.

mikemac1

Farmers shovel **** and slog through manual labour and they also own land and employ others

Find a class for that hah!

rainbow kirby

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I think that the groupings used in this survey make much more sense than the traditional 3 classes model. Boards will be full of "emergent service workers".
http://m.bbc.com/news/uk-22007058

It gives me "Established Middle Class". I'm from Dublin 24...

Hoop66

It's easy:

Middle class - BBC/RTE1
Working Class - ITV/TV3

heroics

rainbow kirby wrote: »

It gives me "Established Middle Class". I'm from Dublin 24...

Peasant I got Elite :eek: my bollox. I live paycheck to paycheck

smcgiff

Do you know your Schubert more than a popular manufactured band such as (heads to Google) One Direction? If not, Prole.

efb

Established Middle Class here too...

jimgoose

I find a simple and useful way of looking at this is to observe what is in the driveway:

Working class == 142 VW Passat on finance.
Middle class == 2010 Volvo XC60 on finance.
Upper class == 1987 Mercedes E300 estate inherited from grandmother.

DeadHand

There is a commonly held myth that we don't have a class system in Ireland which is rubbish- we certainly have.

It's not as well defined or relevant as the class system in the UK and it's a good deal more fluid but it exists nonetheless.

WesternZulu

DeadHand wrote: »

There is a commonly held myth that we don't have a class system in Ireland which is rubbish- we certainly have.

It's not as well defined or relevant as the class system in the UK and it's a good deal more fluid but it exists nonetheless.

You're right.

You're classed either as a bogger or a townie...lines get blurred at times but it's one or the other.

I'm in the bogger class myself!

steddyeddy

Hoop66 wrote: »

It's easy:

Middle class - BBC/RTE1
Working Class - ITV/TV3

I would actually agree with that apart from RTE.

Shenshen

It doesn't mean anything at all to me.
Snobbery is pretty much centered exclusively on education where I'm from - you look up to people with better education/more knowledge than you, and if you were that way inclined might sneer at people with lower levels of education. Background doesn't come into it at all.

I keep having arguments about that with my English husband any time we watch University Challenge. He gets seriously annoyed by all the "posh twats" from Cambridge and Oxford, whereas I simply don't see any difference between them and the team from Manchester...

Robsweezie

ugly divisive terms used as a stick to beat less well off people with

RobertKK

mikemac1 wrote: »

Farmers shovel **** and slog through manual labour and they also own land and employ others

Find a class for that hah!

I say it is farming class. A class some urban people really dislike, mostly working class who probably aren't working and votes for the Socialist party and thinks farmers are too wealthy because of their land and farming assets even though these are the tools for his/her work.

Pocoyo

The class system means little to me,Even if this government is intent on starting a 'Class war'

The failures of FG has seen the equality gap widen in this country so this 'class' malarkey is becoming more apparent.

I believe it really came to fore when Joan Burton started attacking 'dole scroungers' at a time when there was only one job vacancy for every 25 people.

smcgiff

Robsweezie wrote: »

ugly divisive terms used as a stick to beat less well off people with

I'd say you hear more people calling themselves 'Working Class' and proud, more often than you'd hear others.

Pocoyo

This guy is a 'class-act'

Ush1

Lower class - Living in council estate, welfare recipients
Upper lower class - Homeowner in council estate, work
Middle class - Live in private estate, work, not new car
Upper middle class - Live in desirable area but standard enough house, often upgrade car, may be older type people
Upper class - Live in desirable area with large house, business owners, new cars(don't upgrade like upper middle class as not a big deal)

I think when it comes to access to education the main difference is private/rugby schools at secondary level. Third level I think most people of any class have access to it(state funded possibly).

jimgoose

Ush1 wrote: »

...Upper class - Live in desirable area with large house, business owners, new cars...

I was more-or-less with you up to this. Real upper-class types know what money is all about, and don't spend it on stupid crap.

Ush1

jimgoose wrote: »

I was more-or-less with you up to this. Real upper-class types know what money is all about, and don't spend it on stupid crap.

You're right there. I was gonna add, don't upgrade cars like the upper middle class.

jimgoose

Ush1 wrote: »

You're right there. I was gonna add, don't upgrade cars like the upper middle class.

Money makes everything cheaper. My grandmother put it like this: A toff will spend £200 on boots that will last him for twenty years. A poor man will buy boots for £20 that he'll have to replace every year.

Pocoyo

jimgoose wrote: »

Money makes everything cheaper. My grandmother put it like this: A toff will spend £200 on boots that will last him for twenty years. A poor man will buy boots for £20 that he'll have to replace every year.

How often will the 'toff' wear those boots?

jimgoose

Pocoyo wrote: »

How often will the 'toff' wear those boots?

Every day. They cost £200, that's what they're for. He'll also have a boot-room inside the back door to keep them in. The poor person will have a patio there instead, paid for by the Credit Union.

smcgiff

Pocoyo wrote: »

How often will the 'toff' wear those boots?

Not so much...

Pocoyo

jimgoose wrote: »

Every day. They cost £200, that's what they're for. He'll also have a boot-room inside the back door to keep them in. The poor person will have a patio there instead, paid for by the Credit Union.

Luckily the 'lower classes' share their wealth to keep the economy ticking these classes you speak of seem to be misers.

jimgoose

Pocoyo wrote: »

Luckily the 'lower classes' share their wealth to keep the economy ticking these classes you speak of seem to be misers.

They're more inclined to use the word "frugal", but yeah. :pac:

Ush1

jimgoose wrote: »

Money makes everything cheaper. My grandmother put it like this: A toff will spend £200 on boots that will last him for twenty years. A poor man will buy boots for £20 that he'll have to replace every year.

Yep, owner of my pace is extremely wealthy. Drives a top of the line Merc but its a 2007. He's just too busy to be upgrading very often.

jimgoose

Ush1 wrote: »

Yep, owner of my pace is extremely wealthy. Drives a top of the line Merc but its a 2007. He's just too busy to be upgrading very often.

Bingo. He bought one that suited him, and that would continue to suit him and do the job for a long time, and expense be buggered. That much being done, he gets on with everything else. :cool: