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2000 - 20% pay claim followed by strike
2009 - LRC proposals rejected followed by strike
2013 - similar strike
Was there a strike in 2014? It's all a bit blurry, but we the travelling public have become used to strikes from woorkers in CIE companies.
3 strikes (and we're out) in 13 years,might,to some people,not fulfill the requirement to "be used to it",however even allowing for a little licence,it isn't exactly a clear-cut example of rabid union inspired stoppages ?
It's not as if "Strikes" in this period are a uniquely Irish or Dublin Bus experience either...
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2008/03/berl-m06.html
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/london-paris-commuters-struggle-with-subway-bus-strikes-50299
http://www.demotix.com/news/1129795/pickets-reported-bus-garages-general-strike-begins-madrid#media-1129781
http://www.london24.com/news/transport/nearly_100_of_london_bus_drivers_vote_in_favour_of_strike_action_over_pay_1_3832950
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/22/bus-strike-olympics-pay-london
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/arriva-bus-strike-row-over-3485497
http://www.eurocheapo.com/blog/rome-transportation-strikes-a-survival-guide.html
http://www.themilitant.com/2000/6428/642855.html
http://www.dawn.com/news/379196/islamabad-concern-over-strike-by-bus-firm-employees
"Blurry" is indeed a good description
Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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It still hasn't been completed... Sure only the other week NBRU were reminding drivers not to accept new schedules. Some of them had last bus departures of 2335. Imagine that, five minutes later. Completely unacceptable :eek:
Not to mention the 18 months it took for the implementation of the "cost cutting plan" which nearly bankrupted the company... Mind you I'd be curious to see how long the current fares will last when that brief programme ends this year.
Not Completely unacceptable ....with the imminent arrival of 24 hour services,there is currently no requirement to get too elevated over the 2335 issue,however just to clarify it,the current agreements regarding the ordinary services are for 23.30 last departures from City Centre.
The issue raised by Stevek101 revolves around the inability of buses to reach the allocated City Centre departure points for that 23.30 departure.
Currently,depending upon the willingness of Taxi Drivers to cooperate,it can result in Bus passengers waiting in O Connell St/Eden Quay/Aston Quay for anything up to 15 minutes beyond that (as the RTPI does a little fandango).
These occasions are increasing in both frequency and scale of disruption,with the inevitable unpleasantness when the delayed buses eventually reach their City Centre Departure Points (Oddly enough,many customers are Totally Sceptical when a Busdriver cites traffic-jam problems as a cause of the delay at 23.45 )
The Fare determination issue is now an annual function of the NTA,so we can confidently expect the current levels to prevail for at least 12 months (Good news for the current €2.15 Leap Fare payers as they see their fare reduce to €2.05 ) Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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Not Completely unacceptable ....with the imminent arrival of 24 hour services.
The Fare determination issue is now an annual function of the NTA,so we can confidently expect the current levels to prevail for at least 12 months (Good news for the current €2.15 Leap Fare payers as they see their fare reduce to €2.05 )
Will the unions welcome 24h services with open arms if issues of five minutes are giving up conditions on a whim?
Wasn't there an emergency fare increase before?0 -
Interesting contrast there.antoinolachtnai wrote: »A lot of what we have actually been delivered are knick-knacks, bells and whistles as you call them. RTPI signs are nice, but not really necessary with the advent of smartphones. This was a €25m project, and the RTPI doesn't really work that well. Wi-fi on buses is another item that is not as expensive but doesn't really bring any benefit for the vast majority of bus passengers.
Only something like 50% of people have smart phones. The rest have simpler mobile phones or none at all. Those people are entitled to know when the bus is coming.
Meanwhile, the 50% of people have smart phones (or a tablet or laptop) can use them on the bus / coach / tram / train.0 -
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We have come to expect strikes from IE, BE, DB, Aer Lingus etc. Generally any publicly owned (or formerly owned) transport company.
We have come to expect no strikes from privately owned/run transport companies: GoBus, Aircoach, Luas, Ryanair etc.
Simple fact: if you're publicly owned/formerly owned, you have form.
What "We have come to expect" and what reality is can often be quite different things.
In this specific case,my response that three incidences of Industrial Action in 13 years is difficult to square with the "expectation" of more.
However,I would fully accept that such expectations are very common worldwide in Public Transport,as some of the other links refer to....."Busdrivers...Ah sure they're always on strike for something".
To say,"You have form" is factual,however in Bus Atha Cliath's case I would suggest it is form for NOT being on strike.
As to comparisons with the Standard Bearers of the Private Sector (Many of who'se services I use regularly),It is never quite as direct a process.
Many of these companies have different staff representative situations,such Staff Councils with even Ryanair having Staff Consultative/Feedback procedures.
From an outside observers perspective,in almost all Capitalist,worker/employer situations,the battle lines tend to be drawn deeply in the sand with little scope for negotiation.
The reality,for those directly involved (Worker + Employer),is one of engagement,negotiation,mediation, and any other involvement to allow for agreement,and generally it works,both in Public & Private sectors.
There tends to be a Critical Mass in any corporate operation,when the "I'm the BOSS" (ITB) management methodology begins to falter,and when some form of "Representative" engagement becomes not only necessary but desireable for long term stability in any company.
Some people see a requirement to demonize Trades Union members both collectively and individually,as some form of threat to everybody else,however some of theose most vocal often have to soften their cough a tad when they enter an "ITB"situation themselves.
From my own perspective , I use my Union Rep as a conduit between my grade and the top-floor management,with a hope that at least some of my points get laid directly before a decision maker.
In a company which has c2,400 other drivers ,each working 20/7/364,I can see the benefits of this conduit,over and above some form of hope that I could arrange individual meetings for each driver to chew the fat.Markpb: As an example, why are the unions involved in timetable or route changes? If management come up with a timetable that isn't workable, the drivers can still do their jobs. They won't be fired for not achieving the timetable. There's no protection element to that, it's just unions getting involved needlessly. (As an aside, I agree that staff feedback is essential but it shouldn't needlessly delay change, nor should they be able to veto it.)
One of the challenges of Scheduling and Timetabling on any major route is the sheer scale of the job.
I know of no major Bus Operator which Introduces schedules without first attempting some form of driver-feedback.
Managements often do come up with Unworkable timetables,however the current representative system tends to address these issues BEFORE they become set-in-stone,at which point they assume VERY great difficulties for Staff and Customers alike.
It's not about firing people for not achieving timetabled journeys,it is a far broader issue of ensuring that schedules reflect a broad-based reality,rather than meeting narrow administrative criteria which often fails to recognize the reality of Stephens Green/Georges/St/Rathmines or wherever,at 22.00 on a Thursday Night.
In the present day DB Scheduling framework,the issue of needless delay (a variable) is largely redundant,and the Scheduling process operates well.
When issues do occur,such as in DCU with the new 44 terminus arrangements,they tend to underline the reality of Dublin's Bus service NOT being seen as an integral part of the City,so having the required Infrastructure in place BEFORE the 11 Tonne 10 Mtr vehicles arrive is nobodys task...the assumption being,"ah sure they can stop out on the road" etc etc...
The non-scheduling aspects such as Heath & Safety responsibilities,RSA directives and operational reality may not have guided the schedulers in their black & white time based world,but these extraneous aspects ARE what allow the schedule to function.
So whilst a Busdriver will not be "fired for not achieving the timetable" he/she could well encounter a far worse sanction for some error of judgement made as a consequence of trying to cope with an "unworkable schedule",such as pulling up outside an occupied Terminus Bay and having a passenger incident or RTA as a result of this.
My essential point is that Scheduling is NOT as clear-cut,or simple a process as may be initially thought,and a workable,effective and customer friendly schedule is equally a Driver-Friendly one,as it allows for smiley faced commuters rather than:mad: faced ones who've been waiting for buses that simply cannot be where they should be according to their schedule.
It's a Work in Continuous Progress,and I would suggest without a level of organized Driver Representation,that Progress would be considerably slower.
PS: Much of the current scheduling imponderables revolve around the closure of Suffolk St/Church Lane and what the effects will be on the Bus Service (Remember this location IS the N11 QBC in it's entireity !).
Anybody like to suggest a likely scenario for how the schedules thing will pan out after the 5th January 2015 ? Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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To the travelling public, a reliable dependable safe service is all that matters.
Absolutely....the same requirement no matter where you are...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUuxD4QIUfo
http://www.yelp.ie/biz/sydney-buses-sydney
http://www.baltimorefishbowl.com/stories/the-mta-bus-line-so-unreliable-that-one-rider-put-up-missing-posters/
http://cropwellbishop-pc.gov.uk/news/unreliable-bus-service-updates/
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/bus-firm-first-slammed-by-transport-681213
The reality in Dublin's case is that we are nowhere near as woeful as we think....all around us is evidence of improvement and continuing improvement,slow,but ongoing and expanding constantly.
Some folks (I'll suggest,the majority) are aware of this and react accordingly,whilst other's will remain steadfast in their belief that their glass is half-empty,as well as having a hole in the bottom,deliberately placed there to make their lives as awful as possible.
Public Transport Systems everywhere tend to operate at one major disadvantage as far as satisfaction levels go...the PUBLIC element,which always operates counter to basic human nature,which puts the INDIVIDUAL first at all times.
That's why there will always be a requirement for the Bicycle,Skateboard,Car,Taxi and pair of sturdy walking shoes...for those who'se personal needs can NOT be met by PUBLIC means...ever !
Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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LOL... minister intervenes as buses are up to half an hour late! If that's the worst privatisation can do, bring it on, it'd be an improvement in a lot of cases!
...it's on the way...we're just awaiting a Minister photogenic enough ... Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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DB threatened to go out in May last year (solidarity with BE) August (cost cutting rejections) and in October (continuing the cost cutting) and actually went on strike for 3 days in August.
You can play the stats anyway you want, be it 3 strikes in the last 13 years or 1 strike and 3 three threats in the last 2 years.
Many people fail to appreciate just how seperate the two CIE Bus Companies actually are,it is now a very long time indeed since Dublin City Services and Broadstone provincial have had any common ground.
Different working arrangements,differing T's & C's of employment and a totally different set of business plans.
What has also to be factored into this debate,is the reality that BAC staff cannot strike merely "In solidarity" with Bus Eireann,without firstly going through the dispute process itself.
People of a certain vintage will know that the demise of the modern Trades Union's power began with a very elementary miscalculation by Arthur Scargill as leader of the UK's National Union of Miners...the failure to have a Strike Ballot....It was the rod which his nemisis,Margaret Thatcher used to,not alone break Arthur Scargills back,but to rewrite the modern Societal rule book.
However,in the context of this thread,it's probably best to run with the myth,as if it's continually shown to be wrong,there's nothing left to replace it
However there are plans afoot to address this "form" for always being on strike.....
http://www.clb.org.hk/en/content/chinese-bus-drivers-singapore-tossed-aside-after-strike
http://www.clb.org.hk/en/content/thousands-bus-company-workers-strike-shenzhen
:eek:Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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Eh I wonder why. While the buses might be different the unions are the same.
Not alone are the buses different,but the actual staff are too....no longer any crossover at all.
The Union representatives are all from the individual companies too,with no opportunities any longer to get together and conspire a la the Gunpowder Plot ! Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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Not alone are the buses different,but the actual staff are too....no longer any crossover at all.
The Union representatives are all from the individual companies too,with no opportunities any longer to get together and conspire a la the Gunpowder Plot !
Personally I don't see them as different... they're all in one over arching company, and all in the same unions.
Kind of like Saint Patrick and the shamrock. Three branches but definitely one plant.0 -
Personally I don't see them as different... they're all in one over arching company, and all in the same unions.
Kind of like Saint Patrick and the shamrock. Three branches but definitely one plant.
Personally,I do see them as different,and thats where it'll have to lie so ? Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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