the beautiful girls

Dull and Boring

For those of you who would be considered beautiful (no modesty required), do you find your beauty affirmed on a regular basis.

Now I know that everyone is beautiful to someone, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but there are some who are undoubtedly conventionally beautiful to the majority opinion. Would you fall within that category. And if so, has it been confirmed for you throughout your life i.e compliments from strangers, family, guys etc.

It just seems that in modern society, beauty holds an undeniable advantage. I would have considered myself to be average to pretty enough at times. However I never seem to get approached on a night out, compliments etc

Its a bitter pill to swallow if you are not so blessed as the beautiful:(:mad::)

Sorry if that is a bit rambling, just on a downer ladies

Rosy Posy

I would have gotten a lot of compliments/attention/affirmation in my teens and early twenties that have dropped off now that I've got four kids with the baby paunch, chronic tiredness and no time to pluck eyebrows, brush my hair, get dolled etc etc, but I never really felt good and secure about my body/appearance til after I had kids. It was like, even though it was being affirmed from outside I didn't take it on until after it became unimportant. Becoming pregnant was a game changer for me because I finally valued my (imperfect!) body for what it could do rather than for how it looked. I've found the same kind of happiness through exercise and sport.

I don't know if this is a representative experience given that I had massive insecurities about appearance growing up due to parental food issues and being brown in Ireland back before there were many brown people about.

Rosy Posy

http://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/feelings/beauty-of-soul-a-photoshoot-featuring-acid-attack-suvivors-will-mesmerise-you/

Not to belittle your issue, op, but something worth a look.

leahyl

I have been told a good few times OP that I am very attractive but I really don't have the confidence to feel it myself and I think that's my problem when it comes to meeting someone from the opposite sex.

You say that you never seem to get approached on a night out etc. - would this have anything to do with your demeanour or the "vibe" you give off when you are out?; and I don't mean this in an insulting way because I think that is exactly how I am, as in I probably look stand offish - well, that's what I'm beginning to think. Either that, or I'm not as attractive as people have been telling me :pac: You look in the mirror so much sometimes that you haven't an iota if you're attractive or not in the end!

I understand fully that looks are certainly not the most important thing in the long term but, let's be honest, on a night out they are what most people go on. It's frustrating

Oh and btw your user name seems to confirm, a little bit, how you feel about yourself...

skallywag

Dull and Boring wrote: »

It just seems that in modern society, beauty holds an undeniable advantage

Well I guess it probably always was, although the definition of what defines 'beauty' has certainly changed throughout the years. E.g. it's not all that long ago that being voluptuous and pale would have been considered a lot more beautiful than being slim and tanned.

Windorah

I used to regularly get complimented on my appearance from strangers BUT it was often when I was doing volunteer work or something similar.

Personally I think I'm average looks wise and have always struggled with low self esteem but I work in a caring profession (special education) and do a lot of volunteer work (I'm not trying to sound like a rose of tralee contestant here!) so I feel that this may make me appear more attractive...

As others have said its extremely difficult to view yourself objectively and I think we would all be amazed to see how we look through others eyes!

eviltwin

I've never had anyone tell me I looked beautiful apart from my husband and my son but they are biased I don't consider myself beautiful in the conventional sense, I think everyone is beautiful in their own way and I am happy with being average, looks don't matter to me, I don't see them as a currency and I don't need the validation of being told I look well to make me feel good. If someone were to tell me I was beautiful I'd accept with good grace but it would be forgotten about straight after.

I think beauty can be a double edged sword, you can be judged negatively for it too. I think everyone wants to be judged on their character, the things they do rather than things that are largely unimportant and out of their control so I have a bit of sympathy for my more aesthetically pleasing sisters.

LegacyUser

Well as my name says everyone is beautiful.

Yes I get compliments I am I guess what the media says is pretty/beautiful. I have my bad days too obviously. But I feel I am attractive. But people make the same assumption that you do. That I have it easier in basic life. That is B.S.

If you want to feel good about your looks it's almost as if people want to try and decide your a bitch.

Usually people forget that the effect that has lasts five mins.

People are usually surprised I am a nice person. That is their stereotype. They make unpleasant assumptions about me that have no basis in reality.

I realize the media tries to tell other women that their type of beauty is not equally as valid etc. I think that is awful and it makes me angry.

I think the women in the pictures from India have had to work hard on inner self esteem.

You are not your hair but you can still have fun with it.

'Pretty girls' who have it easier are not having it easier because they are pretty they are having it easier because they choose to use people and use their looks in a negative way. They see their looks as a tool rather than something to be enjoyed. Fashion and make up should be fun and nothing more. If it's not then you're doing it wrong.

Those girls from India look like they are having fun with their looks. THAT Is what it is all about.

Yes I get compliments.

But after a chat with me or someone knows me I usually get complimented on my heart. THAT makes my soul sing!

And OP. I think you need to be around people who do give you a little more positive feedback then and pay a little attention.

Don't let people bring you down.

They just want to knock you down a peg or two.

I only hang out with people who make me feel good. If I get negative vibes ..'Yeah I am not here for that'.

You are beautiful and even if society tells you no tell society to go take a flying leap.

LegacyUser

Interestingly I wonder what men would say about the same issue for men.
The beautiful guys do they think they have it easier?

sashafierce

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leahyl

sashafierce wrote: »

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You're right, it's all very subjective really isn't it?! I mean what is "average"? One persons average is another persons stunning! I suppose there are conventionally good looking people and then people who are "average" - but some people think they are average looking themselves and might describe themselves that way but actually they are much nicer looking than they think.

I wouldn't necessarily agree that being beautiful makes life easier - being good looking doesn't make any difference to how people see you in the long term (though for shallow people, maybe it does). It boils down to personality and confidence at the end of the day but yes, looks help to a certain extent in this regard.

sashafierce

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leahyl

sashafierce wrote: »

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Totally agree with you on Hugh Jackman In fact, I didn't think there was any straight woman or gay man who wouldn't find Hugh absolutely gorgeous!

leahyl

leahyl wrote: »

Totally agree with you on Hugh Jackman In fact, I didn't think there was any straight woman or gay man who wouldn't find Hugh absolutely gorgeous!

And yet he does nothing for me!

Beauty is transient. Long after looks fade, character remains. If you lack in one area in life, all you can do is look to the advantages you have in other areas. Be funny, nice, clever, kind, loving, or a million other things. Looks are only part of the picture. When you get old and people stop looking at you, they'll still listen to you if you have other things to offer.

metaoblivia

I would be considered conventionally pretty or beautiful by many people, I think. I modeled in my 20s and I frequently am approached by men on the street or when I'm out and about. Women, men, have stopped me to tell me I'm beautiful throughout my life, even now at 33. And I like the way I look. That doesn't mean I think I'm perfect or that I think I'm the prettiest woman ever. I don't think there's such a thing as either, tbh. To me, beauty isn't a contest. When I look in a mirror, I just like what I see, and whatever physical flaws I might have aren't worth picking myself apart over. And because I like the way I look, I really don't care if I fit someone else's criteria for beauty. As others have said, beauty is subjective - you won't please everyone, nor will you turn everyone off.

That said, it would be ridiculous to deny that there's privilege in beauty. Studies have shown time and again that being conventionally attractive gives you a foot up. Is it fair? Absolutely not. One of my biggest issues with how our society handles beauty is that we're constantly sending the message to people that if they're not attractive in a very specific, narrow way, then they don't matter as much as the people who are. It's that "every girl/woman is beautiful" campaign which is so well-intentioned, but off the mark. Not every girl and woman is beautiful, but they all deserve to feel good about themselves, regardless. And maybe if we spent less time obsessing over beauty, we'd start valuing other characteristics - characteristics that don't fade with age - so that girls who aren't conventionally attractive wouldn't pick themselves apart over not measuring up to someone else's expectations of beauty.

Granted, it probably doesn't mean much coming from me. But I get sick of seeing smart, funny, kind people feel badly about themselves because of the way they look. We're all a lot more than that.

sashafierce

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pharmaton

Recently, someone suggested I "just go over there and look pretty". I'll take whatever I get these days.

Precious flower

I don't think I'm ugly I'd say I'm average at best though, although I certainly don't help myself because I'm extremely self-conscious and am constantly putting myself down that and I'm lazy when it comes to make-up! I've never had people come up to me and say I was beautiful or men fall over themselves trying to talk to me but I've never had people look at me and run away screaming either so I'm guessing I'm pretty ordinary looking. I always tell myself that if an attractive (by my standards) guy is paying attention to me it's because he thinks I would be easy to attract (or to inflate his ego) or because I'm the only girl there! You can tell my confidence levels right there!

I've obviously met men and women who were beautiful and I'm sure initially people do try them different but I imagine that only works for a while it's what's inside that counts in the long run. saying that I remember a girl in college who was gorgeous and an unbelievably nice person she just seemed so genuinely nice and didn't draw any attention to herself or seem obsessed with how she looked.

Naturally, I've felt envious of those women who are that pretty and wished I looked like them thinking that my life would be so much simpler but sure that's life and it's not like they can help that they are attractive looking, it's mainly genetics (and a little bit of make up!).:)

sashafierce

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pharmaton

sashafierce wrote: »

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I was trying not to be to serious given the nature of the beast but it's true, confidence is an addictive quality that renders even the most plain instantly beautiful.

Precious flower

Ariana Grande is one star I would consider to be beautiful in a sense that it's hard to pin down what features make her beautiful and that with or without make-up she'd still look beautiful. I suppose Cheryl Cole would be another one in my opinion.

sashafierce

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I'm fairly average looking. Definitely not ugly* and definitely not beautiful and I'm fatter than I'd like to be. I seriously lack self esteem when it comes to how I look but I have a fair amount of confidence in my personality and I think that helps. I've been told I'm attractive and I think it comes down to smiling a lot and walking with my head up. I didn't always do that, I had to force myself into it. My dad used to tell me "pretend you're not shy, pretend you are confident. Pretend long enough and it'll become true", and he was so so right. Best bit of advice I've probably ever received.

Smile, walk with your head high, and suddenly you become much more attractive, no matter what you look like.

*tbh, I think it's very difficult to be ugly, I don't think ugly is just a physical feature, I think to be ugly it needs to come from the inside.

sashafierce

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Precious flower

sashafierce wrote: »

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I always thought it was the mix of the brown eyes and dimples but then again you some across girls with light coloured eyes and no dimples and you'd think their beautiful as well. I suppose it's symmetry of the face as well.

strobe

Everyone is beautiful2 wrote: »

Interestingly I wonder what men would say about the same issue for men.
The beautiful guys do they think they have it easier?

I think some do yeah. Taking to the extreme you can see outright hostility from some guys towards very handsome men. See it online a good bit recently. The kind of attitude where "a small percentage of guys that are really handsome get 90% of the women, and these guys are all asshole bastards, that couldn't possibly care about any of the girls as they are assholes, and they couldn't possibly have anything going for them apart from thier looks, and... etc" Some guys can also be very quick to treat a very good looking guy as a threat, which can go as far as getting a friendly surprise punch in the teeth for spending a few minutes talking pleasantly to a girl on a night out that happens to have a boyfriend. And sometimes some girls can make unfounded negative assumptions about very good looking guys too, that they probably aren't very bright, or not very nice, or they're 'players', etc.

I think like with the attitude of assuming beautiful girls are by default bitches or stupid it's just insecurity and protecting fragile egos by trying to drag down those they feel inferior to.

I think the reality is looks do matter in a lot of ways and very good looking girls and guys do have things a good bit easier in a lot of ways, same can be said for anyone that's in 'the top tier' in relation to anything, but they also have to deal with negative stuff as a result too.

_Whimsical_

I think I'm very average looking. I've gone through phases when I've fully believed I was absolutely hideous though. When I was younger I had a friend who was very pretty and when we were out she would get lots of compliments while I would get none. Random strangers would come up to us and tell her she was the prettiest girl they'd ever seen, men would pull themselves away from their friends, matches on pub tv's etc just to compliment her on her eye's and skin and hair and offer her drinks etc while ignoring me completely.They'd laugh at her jokes, marvel at even her most mundane insights and I'd barely get a grunt. She herself fully thought she was beautiful, whenever bad things happened or when someone else might have luckier breaks she was first to reassure herself that at least she'd always have her looks and that while someone else might've got the job she would always be prettier than them. When I was 18 I envied her happinesses with herself and thought that's what it was to be truly confident and I wished I looked in the mirror and saw a raving beauty staring back and that everyone I met reminded me of that.

Flash forward to meeting her several years later she was still beautiful but I was shocked at how vapid she seemed. She still believed her truest value was in her appearance. Whenever other people were mentioned she was fast to mention how they'd since put on weight and how their skin had aged so much. She spent several minutes saying things like "I don't think I've put on weight, have I? do you think I have?" while I gushed about how great she looked and how beautiful she was which she accepted as her due and remained silent on my looks. When I told her about something good that had happened to me it was only minutes before she mentioned as an aside that I had really large eyes and how wrinkling was so much more visible around the eyes when they were large.

I kind of felt talking to her that while other people, myself included, had been forced to scramble to find a sense of themselves and a sense of personal value because no one else put us on a pedestal for anything she had always had her looks pointed out by others as her defining quality. She was "the most beautiful girl" and that was all she still needed to rely on to face the world or cushion herself from the blows life deals. I found her really annoying as an adult and I couldn't relate to her at all on any meaningful level . I came away glad that my appearance rarely enters my head as a big issue these days and how I never find myself comparing every other woman I meet to myself or looking to find fault in them physically. While there might be advantages to being a stunner there are definitely some to being average enough too. It's painful to grow past the fact that you're not drop dead gorgeous and that others are prettier than you but it's kind of liberating too to drop some of that old guff. I find other people look for more in you than your looks too in terms of finding you attractive once you're out of your early 20s.

sashafierce

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Saralee4

I would say I scrub up well and get a lot of compliments when I go out but if any of those people see me when I wake up in the morning, oh dear.

I don't think beautiful women have it as easy as people think. There is a certain expectation from a beautiful women. First she is beautiful so the man is already invested. Then he has an ideal about how she is going to be. What personality fits this aesthetic for him. Does he think because she looks a certain way that she is going to be smart? stupid? gentle? feminine? ignorant? full of it? He is going to have assumptions about her before she gets the chance to show her true beauty and personality. He might think because she is feminine that she is not career minded etc. Some people can objectify someone who is beautiful if that makes sense and not try to truly get to know her as a person.

Beautiful women may also have to deal with unwanted attention or some men might not ever approach them because they have put them on some sort of pedestal and now they are too intimidated.

Also I think beautiful women can have a hard time making friends, not all the time but some other women do not like an attractive women around their husband or even in their company. Its not always nice when your standing there while your mate gets compliments galore and your just supposed to smile and agree with the man on how great she is while being completely ignored.

From other posts here, it is also fair to say that the women herself becomes confused with the attention her beauty gets and that becomes an addictive validation that she needs in order to feel important. This is something that has been placed on her for her whole life because people seemed to put so much worth and value on her beauty alone. She sees that as something important and might get confused with what is really important.

I think the older you get the more beauty you see in everyone. You see the rushing worn out mother attending to her kids and making sure everyone gets to their swimming lessons and football practice and her hair falls a certain way that just looks beautiful or you see the insecure twenty something year old women assert herself in the workplace and her new found confidence makes her skin glow.

With men, it is nice to see a beautiful man but I have often ended up most attracted to men that I would not say are really that good looking, its just something about the way he acts more so then the way he looks.

TheBeardedLady

Saralee4 wrote: »

I would say I scrub up well and get a lot of compliments when I go out but if any of those people see me when I wake up in the morning, oh dear.

I don't think beautiful women have it as easy as people think. There is a certain expectation from a beautiful women. First she is beautiful so the man is already invested. Then he has an ideal about how she is going to be. What personality fits this aesthetic for him. Does he think because she looks a certain way that she is going to be smart? stupid? gentle? feminine? ignorant? full of it? He is going to have assumptions about her before she gets the chance to show her true beauty and personality. He might think because she is feminine that she is not career minded etc. Some people can objectify someone who is beautiful if that makes sense and not try to truly get to know her as a person.

Beautiful women may also have to deal with unwanted attention or some men might not ever approach them because they have put them on some sort of pedestal and now they are too intimidated.

Also I think beautiful women can have a hard time making friends, not all the time but some other women do not like an attractive women around their husband or even in their company. Its not always nice when your standing there while your mate gets compliments galore and your just supposed to smile and agree with the man on how great she is while being completely ignored.

From other posts here, it is also fair to say that the women herself becomes confused with the attention her beauty gets and that becomes an addictive validation that she needs in order to feel important. This is something that has been placed on her for her whole life because people seemed to put so much worth and value on her beauty alone. She sees that as something important and might get confused with what is really important.

I think the older you get the more beauty you see in everyone. You see the rushing worn out mother attending to her kids and making sure everyone gets to their swimming lessons and football practice and her hair falls a certain way that just looks beautiful or you see the insecure twenty something year old women assert herself in the workplace and her new found confidence makes her skin glow.

With men, it is nice to see a beautiful man but I have often ended up most attracted to men that I would not say are really that good looking, its just something about the way he acts more so then the way he looks.

Very insightful post.

beks101

I remember reading a post in another forum several years ago from a beyond-middle-aged woman who was "losing her looks".

Throughout her youth she had learned to completely self-identify as a "beautiful woman" and the attention that afforded her left her utterly lost and without any sense of identity once it disappeared. The men that once fell at her feet now looked through her; the gushing compliments were replaced with silence; the preferential treatment stopped and she became just another member of the generic public etc.

And I remember thinking, how sad that this woman who is more than twice my age has no idea who she is and no means to measure her value as a woman, as a person, because the only currency she ever learned to deal in was now defunct.

And that's the thing about 'beauty.' Arguments about its subjectivity aside, things change with age and with that will come a change in how the world relates to you. If having a pretty face and having an affect on men has always been at the top of your priority list, you're setting yourself up for a miserable life really and ultimately missing out on getting to know yourself beyond the surface. You're missing out on who you actually are.

I don't think I'd ever describe myself as 'beautiful' as that word just isn't that important to me. It's not the greatest compliment I could ever receive. I generally like what I see in the mirror (though ask me again after this week of night shifts...!) and I definitely treasure a lot of my physical features but I think that has more to do with growing older and becoming more at ease with myself.

I have lots of flaws but I know I'm very smart, I know I'm honest in my life and in my feelings and I know I'm a good person who will 9 times out of 10 do the right thing and I think that's reflected back at me when I look in the mirror. I smile and laugh a lot and there's a softness to my demeanour that I think has also physically manifested.

It's also been my experience that true beauty is accentuated by wonder or the provocation of thought - someone who makes me think about the world. The people I haven't been able to keep my eyes off over the years have been, on the face of it, moderately attractive people in the conventional sense, who mentally and/or emotionally engaged me.

That girl with the big brown eyes and high cheekbones who sat beside me on my first day of secondary school and pulled herself away from her group of friends to talk to me. She was pretty but that kindness made her beautiful to me. My little sister who I think of as the sweetest, most generous and most joyful person I've ever met. Her infectious spirit makes her fcuking gorgeous to me and most people who meet her. My boyfriend who stood close beside me all night when we first met and told me personal things about his past, (we were both LOCKED :pac:), but the enduring memory I had the next day was the vulnerability on his face, the total honesty and sort of trust of this complete stranger, and that took it from 'yeah he's an attractive guy' to 'he's the most handsome man I've ever met'.

I dunno. That's my brand of beauty. They don't look like those celebrities on the front pages of those magazines, all preened and polished and perfectly proportioned. Nipped and tucked and makeuped to within an inch of their lives. I don't think that's beautiful because it's too one-dimensional to me, too generic, I'm not pulled in, I'm not engaged. And I think for me, the beauty of getting older is that the surface-stuff has less of a hold, you sort of see it for what it is, and it's the substance of a person that you tend to look for.

SusieBlue

I don't know if I'd be considered conventionally attractive. I put a lot of effort into my appearance..My make up is always immaculate, I get my hair cut and coloured every 6 weeks and I religiously get waxed, my nails get done professionally once a month. I coordinate all my outfits with my make up, hair style and accessories, right down to the colour of my nail varnish and type of handbag.

I get approached a lot while out, particularly while I'm working, because I work in a nightclub. Male customers make comments most nights, women not as much, but women would be more inclined to admire my lipstick or my hair or something rather than tell me I'm pretty like men do.

I don't know if I'm actually beautiful or not though, because I put so much effort into my appearance. I have no idea if I'd still be approached au natural, although all previous boyfriends have preferred me without the slap and big hair, which I guess is a positive thing.

However, the most regular comment I get is to keep my head up and be more confident. I'm so shy, I'm insecure about every aspect of myself, I have no confidence, sometimes I struggle even to make eye contact with customers which obviously isn't practical in my customer service role.

So even though I have all these lovely things said to me, I'm still crippled with insecurity and people comment on THAT more than they comment on my appearance. Any self worth I have, which is minute, comes from my make up and my big hair and my pretty clothes. None of it is me, its all a front. Its a security blanket I can't function without.

So to answer the OP, I'm one of those girls that gets told I'm beautiful, but I'm also one of those girls that gets told to "smile, it might never happen", or one of those girls everyone assumes is unfriendly but I'm actually just painfully shy and anxious.

I'd much rather be outgoing and confident than by told I have pretty eyes or asked how I did my hair that way. Confidence radiates and some of my most beautiful friends are beautiful not just for their looks, but for their self assurance and their easy adaptability to all situations.

And that, to me, is a far more valuable and timeless asset than a rocking body or a pretty face.

My idea of female perfection is Rachel McAdams, she's just amazing. So naturally beautiful and she sparkles with confidence.

TheBeardedLady

Some very honest accounts here. I didn't want to post because I was afraid that my admission that I've been complimented on my appearance over the years would seem conceited and give the very wrong impression of me as can happen on the internet where people don't know me but that's been the case since turning 19 and I suppose I'd be classed as good-looking.

I was a gawky teenager and was bullied relentlessly for 3 years but kind of grew into myself around my late teens and it was almost over night. Because of the bullying, I didn't consider myself pretty at all and had no confidence and I was very suspicious when I suddenly started to get attention from guys and didn't really know what to do with myself. I even got attention from guys who gave me a hard time in school (I have no idea what they expected to happen) and I suppose I realised then just how fickle beauty is and I think that lead me to put very little stock in it over the years. I learned then that people can find you attractive but not even like you; that it's all surface and is not really who you are; I've seen it from both sides and it ain't pretty but it's given me insight that others mightn't have.

Perhaps if those guys realised that they'd given a funny, nice, sound girl a hard time for 3 years, I might've felt differently but I ended up feeling more resentful.

It's not something I've ever used consciously to get my way and I don't spend much time preening in front of the mirror (not that there's anything wrong with that). My social currency was my sense of humour and my ability to make people laugh. In all honesty and I know others might not believe it but when people complimented my appearance, it wasn't unpleasant to hear, obviously, but it never penetrated; it never meant much to me although I feel lucky that I don't look in the mirror and hate what I see.

I've had comments made over the years such as, "Obviously your adult students like you - you're hot!" and the fact that I'm a very hard-working, professional teacher who takes her job very seriously wasn't considered (and most of my students are female anyway) or "Travelling around South America was easy for you because you're attractive" and the fact that I'm brave and friendly and made the effort weren't acknowledged and that hurt. REALLY hurt, in fact. The assumption that what I've achieved is down to what I look like on the surface, which is down to the luck of genes and nothing I've done, and not who I am as a person. I doubt a person who wouldn't be considered conventionally good-looking gets that and are acknowledged for what they've done.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, I just want to make it very clear that what I value most in myself is who I am and that's what I value in others too. I live in a country where looks are very important and people are quite judgemental when it comes to how someone looks and very vocal about it too in the strangest of contexts. As an outsider, I'm very grateful I'm not part of it and can look on from a more anthropological POV. I think that's the fantastic thing about Ireland and something I miss: that looks aren't what are valued the most in a woman (imo).



I'm 34 and my looks are starting to fade and I'm reminded again how fleeting they are but I've surrounded myself with people who've valued me for me and I'm actively doing things to improve me as a person (back in university and volunteering, for example) and add more substance to who I am that will weather the years more than the fragile layer that covers me.


Now I feel like an awful big head! :-/

Saralee4

The Bearded Lady, I can relate to your post and how you feel. I noticed as well that a lot of people here who have admitted that they get lots of compliments felt that they had to play it down with a negative which I even did myself.

Society tells women that they need to be beautiful but god forbid the woman actually knows that or admits that she is beautiful, then she would be vain. So she has to pretend or never acknowledge that she is beautiful, accept compliments gracefully and don't let them get to her head while everyone constantly puts value on her looks but when she tries to show people her other qualities they are often ignored.

People say that women can use their looks to get ahead but is the woman not being used in this situation? For example if she goes for a job. She's up against another girl. She gets the job because she is prettier. It doesn't mean that she is going to be able to do the job. She might be able for the job but just not as good as the other less attractive girl would have been according to their interviews and cvs however it is not her fault that she got the job and she is probably going to do the best that she can do. She just went for a job and was picked. But I feel that when people give examples of things like this, its the attractive girl who is seen as 'using her looks' but how exactly did she use her looks here?

Even with celebrities and women like Rihanna who are overtly using sex appeal, is it really her or has she been used and branded and just gone along with it or been told that so much of her worth is her beauty and sex appeal that she really believes it? She has some good songs, not really my thing but I don't think of music even when I think of her.

People often envy beautiful women and the attention they get but I think its really important to understand that the attention is fleeting, shallow and has no real value and you cant let it get to your head. There is always going to be someone that is more beautiful than you. I am not saying that beautiful women have it so hard but I don't think its all it cracked out to be.

LegacyUser

(I am not brave enough to post this without remaining anonymous because I really feel that some might take it up the wrong way and get cross with my post mistaking it for arrogance, but it’s really not meant to come across like that and I would be too shy to ever say any of this stuff publically for fear of getting a strong negative reaction, so I hope the moderators allow this post. I’m just trying to give my personal experience and add my story in response to the OP.)

There have been some great examples and stories given so far of how sometimes beauty isn't always as cracked up as it's meant to me like with the women who ended up vapid as adults, or unhappy thinking that beauty was the only thing they had.

These situations can and do happen as already mentioned, but sometimes I think they can also become a stereotype of beautiful women too. I've often found people presuming things like beautiful woman are less intelligent or less interesting people because they've never had to develop a personality and only had to sail through life getting compliments and that looking good is the only thing they specialise or excel in. That when they age there is nothing left but a dull shell of a person with nothing else interesting about them personality wise etc.

I know it can happen, but sometimes it's said in a bitchy way I think to make others feel better about themselves . Not by anybody in this thread btw, I know these are nice posters just giving genuine examples, but more in general I've heard comments made about people such as "sure all she has is her looks", "Well I'd still rather to be me and have some brains rather than be like her....her looks will fade" said in a way that assumes the lady in question is dumb and just a pretty face. Or things like, "yeah she's pretty but I bet she's boring as fcuk to talk to"
These types of comments I've heard made from people who wouldn't even know the person they're insulting well, just seems like they have to imagine or assume these flaws exist in her so that they can comfort themselves somehow that they are at least more interesting or more intelligent than the woman they consider more beautiful.

Some of the most visually beautiful people I've met are also very intelligent and nice people too.

I'm in my mid/late twenties now and I've some experience of being seen as attractive. All through my life as far back as infants in primary school I can remember getting compliments for my looks. The older girls in above classes would come over to just me, saying "oh you're so cute" and always wanted to babysit me/play with me for a short while during break times whilst my other little friends wouldn't get the same or any attention of them. My parent's friends would always make comments about my appearance whenever they saw me saying, "well aren't you just beautiful!" or to my parents in front of me "she's gorgeous, like a little model", I know most kids will get similar comments from their parent's friends but this was all the time, without fail at every meeting I ever had with adults or older teenagers. I was very young but still remember at the time I would just feel a bit awkward or confused by the attention for a minute or two and then brush it off not really thinking about it again as these compliments had no meaning to me because I was too young to see compliments about appearance as having any value in life. I preferred compliments for things such as colouring in a nice picture or reciting a kid's poem or something.

As I progressed through primary, I ended up doing advanced level work that was several years ahead of my class because I was flying through the class work in no time at all, so the teachers had to give me other different work to challenge me. So then the compliments about being "so intelligent" started from my teachers, relations, and again parent's friends. The teachers gushed praise on me and I was always getting quizzed by family friends on schoolwork, or general knowledge, or books I had read as I started reading full books at an extremely young age. This quizzing seemed to be a form of entertainment for them, so they would say "wow, that's excellent, how did she know that?" or "you're a very clever little girl".

Come secondary school I still got piles of attention from the opposite sex. Went to an all girl's school but always had a steady stream of boys from the local school wanting to hang out, texting me, or getting their friends to ask me to "be with them". I never had the problem of fancying someone and not having their attention. Any of the few lads I had a crush on, I would invariably end up meeting and "shifting" at some point (nothing more). I would usually get asked out by them after only the first or second time they met me too but I would sometimes not be comfortable enough to kiss them until I'd hung out a bit longer with them.

About mid teens I seemed to start gaining the attention of older lads in their late teens or early twenties, which is a little bit odd when I think about it now but at the time I would be flattered by that attention from an older guy. I might have just been in a takeaway with friends and have a guy come over chatting me up telling me I was beautiful. Or older groups of lads might come over to me and my friends in town and would always just ask for my number or one would ask did I want to meet up with him. This was a very regular occurrence.

I did not like constantly being singled out from my friends for attention because it led to a lot of tension and nasty comments and eventually pretty bad bullying from a handful of girls who were once friends. After leaving school I still didn't like if I got a lot of attention or praise in front of some women because I get this tight feeling of anxiousness and fear that they were going to turn on me so I would just laugh or brush off compliments quickly and try to change the subject. Of course I know now that most adult women are lovely and don't care about this stuff.

From about 16 I was underage but going to some pubs and nightclubs. Always got bucketloads of attention in these places. Constantly complimented and chatted up.
Also I worked as a waitress and sometimes I find when I read on boards that Irish men don't have the guts to ask women out unless they're drunk might be correct overall, but doesn't correspond with my own personal experience because I got asked out on 5 different occasions by complete strangers in the middle of the day whilst waitressing. Most I politely declined, but I did date one for a short while.

Late teens I met my boyfriend whom I'm still with now and together all these years later. My looks and attention from others still remained the same until about my mid twenties.

I never did any work at all in secondary school, would often skip classes or just not show up for class tests, but come the leaving cert with just a couple of days cramming I managed to get really high points and got my 1st choice in university courses.

This is where things started to change somewhat.

I did my usual thing of not attending classes, and never ever studying, but come maybe 2 weeks before the final summer exams (it wasn't semesterised back then) I was looking at sample exam papers and realised how absolutely fcuked I was.
Realistically I knew I could probably cram enough to scrape a pass in the subjects, but that wouldn't be good be enough for the subjects I wanted to carry on doing. I needed high grades for what I was interested in. I decided to drop out and work to save some money to come back and repeat the year.
So I continued working and also got a second job as well. As what sometimes happens I guess, I enjoyed all the money I was making from work, wasn't as good as I had planned at saving, and had other family issues arise too. This delayed my plans a bit, and I eventually ended up returning to college as a mature student.
I'm nearly finished my degree now, all is going well and I hope to do a masters afterwards as well.

I'm sorry for telling such a rambling long story, but the OP did ask if beauty had been "confirmed for you all through life" so I wanted to give a brief life story only highlighting examples of where yes beauty and also praise for being intelligent had occurred all through my life but I also want to talk about what's changed and what advantages and disadvantages I feel this has.

I've already explained the mess up of college that occurred at my first attempt.
I'm also positively fat now.

I need to lose about 2 stone possibly even 3 stone, which might not sound massive but I'm extremely short so it looks a lot on me.
I still get occasional compliments from girls mainly such "you've such a pretty face", or "I love your hair/outfit" and my partner obviously still loves me very much, but from other men I get not even a tiny fraction of the amount of compliments I used to get. Yeah on a night out with the girls I might get one or two fellas try to chat me up until I casually slip into the conversation mention that I have a boyfriend, but that wouldn't happen on every night out and more often than not it's my stunning, beautiful best friend who has fellas drawn to her whilst I'm overlooked.

Do I feel like I've lost my identity? Do I feel dreadfully unhappy because of this?
I can honestly from the bottom of my heart say no to both.
I may have spent the majority of my life being praised for my looks but it was never something that was a very important thing for me.
If anything it was just something I always took for granted and never gave any thought to. Never had to worry about acne, or weight, or having to make a big effort to look good. My appearance was just something I never spent any time at all overthinking. Of course I was aware a lot of people considered me very attractive but just felt so what? or "whatever" and it was never something I dwelt on.
When I gained weight and majority of that attention stopped, I can't deny I didn't notice the attention stopping but I can say that this change has never badly upset me. I don't miss getting a string of chatups/compliments, I'm still happy and have a good time, still end up chatting and having a great laugh with strangers in a friendly way and often enjoy the anonymity of feeling invisible walking through town unless I choose to initiate greetings with people. I wonder though if this is because I am already in a long term relationship and might I feel different if I was single and seeking a partner? -possibly.

Another reason why it might not bother me is because I always valued and cared way more about the praise I got for being intelligent growing up. My dad especially always seemed so proud of me his little girl when I was telling him something new I'd learnt in school and I remember loving his praise and our chats so much.

Earlier I mentioned all the positive attention I received growing up, but that wasn't to say life was plain sailing. I've had just the same problems as a lot of people, especially in my family - sickness, deaths, times of genuine poverty, got bullied my last couple of years in secondary school by a few girls in my class, depression. Being "pretty" doesn't really help with any of these things.

I don't think having attractiveness affirmed throughout your life necessary makes you a vacuous or boring person (but I agree that it definitely could happen). I've always made friends with both males and females very easily. I'm always described as very bubbly and outgoing and I've always read a lot and watched interesting documentaries to learn, and have met and befriended so many different types of people throughout the years.

One advantage of being pretty or smart is that I have a very solid inner confidence in myself. I would never openly express a lot of my confidence because I'm very aware it could be mistaken for arrogance to admit to knowing you are both (hence why I'm remaining anonymous in this post), but it's something I'm grateful I was raised with.
I prefer how I look when slimmer and would have more confidence in the bedroom when not conscious of my belly. I know I'm overweight but at the same time I don't feel "ugly". I'm well aware some people might look at me and think I'm fat or unattractive because of that, but despite knowing this I don't really care too much about this as I just don't feel "ugly" within myself if that makes sense?
I like my face and know that I can and will lose this weight when I feel ready to and that once again I would most likely start receiving a lot more compliments and attention again but tbh I'm not in any major rush to do that. It's something I will do gradually and not something I really get upset or depressed about.

I also have confidence in my intelligence. I was always higher than average academically but also feel confident enough outside of academics. (she says having probably made a string of errors in this post! )
Like Beks101 I also believe I'm generally a good person. I've often being described as kind and always make friends easily. People come to me for help and advice a lot too and this has always been and continues to be the way for me no matter what I look like.

Despite having this sort of silent inner confidence in these things I don't feel arrogant. I've met plenty of people whom I consider much more attractive than me and much much smarter too so don't think I'm superior or the best, just sort of quietly happy with what I have got.

A disadvantage for me and the only reason I've mentioned intelligence praise at all in this post is laziness. (I think the laziness one could experience academically from getting praised all through life for being naturally smart, is similar to the laziness in personality or appearance one could possibly experience after being praised all through life for looks too. )
I sailed through primary and secondary getting great final grades without doing a tap of work, literally no study at all, so when I first hit college it was a big wake up call to realise I wouldn't get away with the same crap again. Yes I could have scraped passes with no effort but this is not what I wanted because I needed good grades not just passes for what I wanted to do next.
I wish I could say that now in my final degree year of college I've learnt to study really well but that is simply not the case. I've definitely improved in that I do my assignments now and some study (only before exams) but really only put in minimal effort. Because I still manage to get what are considered very good grades with just a small bit of effort I still have this laziness when it comes to really knuckling down hard to work.

This is my biggest flaw and the one thing that I'm not confident about in myself at all, and that is my lack of motivation, drive, and willpower. I got 94% in one subject I really loved and did try in before, and so despite now getting good grades I know I'm capable of getting even higher when I do try but find it near impossible to kick this laziness. I also watch close friends studying so hard, often getting so upset and stressed in college and find it very hard to relate to, so I alternate between feeling hugely guilty for having gotten a better grade with only a tiny bit of effort or ust looking over the material once or twice, to feeling I'm a failure to myself for failing to reach my own capabilities because of laziness.

In some ways this laziness can extend to "beauty" or appearance as well. Like I've said before I've never had to make any effort with appearance really. I like nice clothes but never had bad skin or weight problems growing up. Could go out daily with no makeup whatsoever and still get chatted up and complimented all the time.

So I think this did bring about a laziness of sorts that contributed to the weight gain in my mid twenties. I still have good skin and pretty features so never really wear makeup unless going "out" but I do know now that I will have to watch what I eat, and I will have to exercise a little bit if I want to remain slim. I will have to make a bit more effort to find clothes that are flattering too. I will have to put in at least some extra work in college if I want the mega high grades I desire.

I’ve always made an effort to get to know and interact with people and to learn new things outside of college, but basically if I want to feel I've genuinely earned an academic or appearance achievement instead of just being born lucky, then I will need to make a bit of fecking effort there too in life like everybody else and stop coasting!

This takes a long while to get used to and I am just now beginning to work on it, but I'm getting there.
It’s that hard work ethic, drive and willpower and success that I admire most in other people and aspire to be more like them.

I know there are plenty of people more beautiful and intelligent than me who still manage to also have great drive and work hard for their academic goals and are also great at maintaining their appearance, but unfortunately I am not naturally one of those people.

metaoblivia

Saralee4 wrote: »

People often envy beautiful women and the attention they get but I think its really important to understand that the attention is fleeting, shallow and has no real value and you cant let it get to your head. There is always going to be someone that is more beautiful than you. I am not saying that beautiful women have it so hard but I don't think its all it cracked out to be.

Great post.

It's true that, while I think beauty is more a privilege than a burden, it's not all it's cracked up to be.

First, like other posters have said, some beautiful girls and women get wrapped up in that identity. I have to really feel sorry for the ones who think they'll always have their pretty face. Um, nope. That's not how nature works, unless you're planning on dying young.

Second, people do make snap judgments about you, and it's not always to your benefit. A few years back, I helped write a song and was asked to sing it on stage during a performance. I'm a classically trained vocalist and can play the piano - I studied music at one of the best universities in the US - so this wasn't out of my ballpark. Still, a lot of people thought I was sleeping with the host of the show, and one person even said, "Well maybe if I looked like her, I'd have gotten to go on stage." Because my role in the songwriting and my experience as a musician couldn't possibly have been enough reason, right?

And finally, you get a lot of unwanted attention. A lot. I've had two stalkers in my life, and I don't use that word lightly. Both of these men broke the law, invaded my space, refused to let me be until I had to either move or the police had to intervene, and all because they thought I was beautiful. I knew neither of these men - they just saw me and became obsessed. And in their minds, because they thought I was beautiful, they were entitled to do whatever they wanted in pursuit of me. It didn't matter who I was as a person, or what I wanted, or what relationships I was currently in. It's really demoralizing to know that all you are to some people is a vessel they can project their fantasies onto.

And that can have an effect on your actual relationships because you wonder if he's really interested in you as a person. Once he gets over your beauty, will he like what's underneath? Is he actually interested in what you have to say? Or is he just looking for a trophy?

I'm not saying these are the worst problems in the world, but they're issues I've dealt with.

Mully_2011

"Never place a woman on a pedestal for her looks"

dellas1979

Id like to put my few words in (starts out similar to bearded lady). Am a total juxtaposition, and (seemingly) allergic to the modern notion of "beauty". Kim Kardashian with her arse out?

I left my old secondary school in 5th year. I was about 4ft something, I was quite chubby, didnt know a thing about make up (still dont), Id long hair down past my bottom, which, I know, I know, but it was hard to keep. Some what of a grease ball (showers units were a luxury back in my teens). Largely went unnoticed. I was off in my own little world. And I was a shy little thing. But I was lovely. A quirky (and still am) little thing. And happy I was .

I went to do my leaving in a different school. Over the course of a summer, I shot up several inches. As a result, the puppy fat dropped off, and I got a haircut.

As a 17/18 year old, I went back to visit friends who hadnt seen me in ages, and to this day, I still think about the reaction. The fellas who never acknowledged me, suddenly were all about me. The girls who never saw "me" wanted my figure/hair, whatever. I'll be honest, for about 2 years, I turned into a man eater. I did objectify them. Because I could. It then became "boring" and not true to me.

(As Ive written in other forums), I dont believe in wearing make-up (the very odd time mascara and blusher, although the mascara is about 2 year old-uch). I never did. Not because I thought (or think) I was fabulous, its because I felt I was hiding myself. When girls were taking hours to get ready, I was (still do) take 10mins. I suffered friendships greatly, because it was very hard to make girlfriends who Id nothing in common with (they'd be on about clothes/make up/boys, while Id be on about something interesting Id read/seen).

I do get compliments, on a daily basis, but I dont take it into my heart or my head. I know, myself, what I like about myself. I dont need anyone to confirm that to me. I dont aspire to hear these things. I dont get an ego boost. Id rather have someone say something positive about "me". I have lovely teeth, because I looked after them, I have lovely/unusual hair colour (havent cut it in about 2 years!), I have a good hour glass figure, I have good skin. In asthetics, yes I would be considered good looking. Thats what I got from my parents! I kinda classify it as a "rugged look"

But all that means nothing. When I walk past someone, and they are looking at me or eye balling, they are not actually looking at "me". Thats a false impression. With guys, Ive found, it is a case of "interested in my looks and not what I have to say." And Ive found, women will judge me on appearance too, for not wearing make up, for not being into the fashion styles, all because I still want (and do) feel that am being true to my 16 year old self. Who saw beauty through innocent (unconditioned) eyes.

I have seen both sides of the fence. And I know which side I want to be on.

(PS: Its also put me in very awkward situations with men, where they objectify me (and I know what its like to objectify). Ive had a few "stalkers" over the years (bloody ejits). One nearly broke my heart (and scared me), because it was full on attention at work. I had stand up for myself and make a complaint. Manys a lesson Ive learned from my hairy scenarios.

_Whimsical_

beks101 wrote: »

I remember reading a post in another forum several years ago from a beyond-middle-aged woman who was "losing her looks".

Throughout her youth she had learned to completely self-identify as a "beautiful woman" and the attention that afforded her left her utterly lost and without any sense of identity once it disappeared. The men that once fell at her feet now looked through her; the gushing compliments were replaced with silence; the preferential treatment stopped and she became just another member of the generic public etc.

And I remember thinking, how sad that this woman who is more than twice my age has no idea who she is and no means to measure her value as a woman, as a person, because the only currency she ever learned to deal in was now defunct.

And that's the thing about 'beauty.' Arguments about its subjectivity aside, things change with age and with that will come a change in how the world relates to you. If having a pretty face and having an affect on men has always been at the top of your priority list, you're setting yourself up for a miserable life really and ultimately missing out on getting to know yourself beyond the surface. You're missing out on who you actually are.

I don't think I'd ever describe myself as 'beautiful' as that word just isn't that important to me. It's not the greatest compliment I could ever receive. I generally like what I see in the mirror (though ask me again after this week of night shifts...!) and I definitely treasure a lot of my physical features but I think that has more to do with growing older and becoming more at ease with myself.

I have lots of flaws but I know I'm very smart, I know I'm honest in my life and in my feelings and I know I'm a good person who will 9 times out of 10 do the right thing and I think that's reflected back at me when I look in the mirror. I smile and laugh a lot and there's a softness to my demeanour that I think has also physically manifested.

It's also been my experience that true beauty is accentuated by wonder or the provocation of thought - someone who makes me think about the world. The people I haven't been able to keep my eyes off over the years have been, on the face of it, moderately attractive people in the conventional sense, who mentally and/or emotionally engaged me.

That girl with the big brown eyes and high cheekbones who sat beside me on my first day of secondary school and pulled herself away from her group of friends to talk to me. She was pretty but that kindness made her beautiful to me. My little sister who I think of as the sweetest, most generous and most joyful person I've ever met. Her infectious spirit makes her fcuking gorgeous to me and most people who meet her. My boyfriend who stood close beside me all night when we first met and told me personal things about his past, (we were both LOCKED :pac:), but the enduring memory I had the next day was the vulnerability on his face, the total honesty and sort of trust of this complete stranger, and that took it from 'yeah he's an attractive guy' to 'he's the most handsome man I've ever met'.

I dunno. That's my brand of beauty. They don't look like those celebrities on the front pages of those magazines, all preened and polished and perfectly proportioned. Nipped and tucked and makeuped to within an inch of their lives. I don't think that's beautiful because it's too one-dimensional to me, too generic, I'm not pulled in, I'm not engaged. And I think for me, the beauty of getting older is that the surface-stuff has less of a hold, you sort of see it for what it is, and it's the substance of a person that you tend to look for.

That's a really lovely post and I agree with so much of it. The piece in bold left me with a lump in my throat. You have just perfectly described how I fall in love and what I fall in love with, even though I've been useless at articulating it myself in the past.

I think you're right we forget when we talk about beauty and attraction that we aren't one dimensional physical shells and that very often it's what animates us that casts us as attractive and it's the connections that we form in those moments when we drop the mask and wear our humanity on our faces that leave an impression on someone else. While we acknowledge that about our reaction to other people we lose sight of it so easily when we think about our own appearance. It's a shame.

Lau2976

I look like something that fell out of a dogs arse most of the time tbh.

I always look like a mess. I have wavy hair (and not in a model kind if way) and everything else about me is pretty average. Im quite small but have a big chest (I was a pretty fat kid ) so I can never get proper form fitting clothes, and even if I could I wouldn't wear them. I enjoy sweats too much! I always think it makes me look weird too. It's too imbalanced or something. I'm not particularly tall either so any fat I do have is pretty localized :O

I never really take notice of compliments or insults either. I don't care how I look to other people. Sometimes I'll unskillfully wear make up if it's a really important event but anything else and I'll wear something presentable (a dress or suit or whatever), do my hair and throw on boots or some heels and I'm good to go.

I do think as a society we've lost interest in unconventional beauty. It's all big butts, small waists, tanned skin and tiny hands. Is it wrong to be attracted to that? No. Is it wrong to say that's the only thing that's attractive? Yes.

I like to paint people how I see them personally. It always gets an interesting reaction. If their beautiful (inside) that's how I paint them. If they aren't, I paint them like that, regardless of how they look visually.

leahyl

I have to say, some great posts in this thread, makes for great reading. I wish I could articulate myself as well as all of you

meeeeh

Lau2976 wrote: »

I do think as a society we've lost interest in unconventional beauty. It's all big butts, small waists, tanned skin and tiny hands. Is it wrong to be attracted to that? No. Is it wrong to say that's the only thing that's attractive? Yes.

I actually think that is a bit unfair. I dislike perfectly tanned and made up to the nines look. I'm not a fan of reality TV but I was really happy seeing a modelling show years ago where they made sure to pick girls with minimal make up, no tan and natural eyebrows. I don't know which girl won but the ones I saw were all more attractive (to me) than so called 'irish models' posing on the Grafton Street. And I know quite a few men who are attracted to what is behind the face. Frankly there are people for whom you can tell all their brain activity goes into applying make up or working gym gear. And no matter how perfect their body or face is you know that they will bore you to death. Btw I usually got compliments when I looked approachable. On another day I could look exactly the same and nobody would even look into my direction.

Lau2976

meeeeh wrote: »

I actually think that is a bit unfair. I dislike perfectly tanned and made up to the nines look. I'm not a fan of reality TV but I was really happy seeing a modelling show years ago where they made sure to pick girls with minimal make up, no tan and natural eyebrows. I don't know which girl won but the ones I saw were all more attractive (to me) than so called 'irish models' posing on the Grafton Street. And I know quite a few men who are attracted to what is behind the face. Frankly there are people for whom you can tell all their brain activity goes into applying make up or working gym gear. And no matter how perfect their body or face is you know that they will bore you to death. Btw I usually got compliments when I looked approachable. On another day I could look exactly the same and nobody would even look into my direction.

I don't think as individuals we've lost that attraction but as a society we have. Not in recent years necessarily and not abprubtly. But social norms differ through every generation and decade. Instead of appreciating individual beauty as a society we seem to prefer a generic blank slate.

dellas1979

Lau2976 wrote: »

I do think as a society we've lost interest in unconventional beauty. It's all big butts, small waists, tanned skin and tiny hands. Is it wrong to be attracted to that? No. Is it wrong to say that's the only thing that's attractive? Yes.

I think thats an interesting comment. As a society, we've been brain washed to "look like this and youll be attractive, look like that and youll be happy".

I think the key (in all the stuff being thrown at us) is to choose whatever makes you happy, inside. Not on the outside.

If you are happy inside, no matter what the external looks like (considered beautiful or not), youll live a happy life.

And noone here, out out in the world, who is considered (or told) that they are attractive, should have to apologise, or be meek, for what other people see. You cannot control other peoples eyes or views.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

After reading this I must talk to my mother about the subject. She's still a good-looking woman, but I've seen pictures of her in her youth and my god she was stunning. Her mother still talks about what a pretty child she was too. I've been told I really take after her, but while I'm happy enough with my looks and would consider myself reasonably attractive, I know I'm nothing special, and nowhere near as good looking as she was.

The reason I'd be interested to hear her thoughts on the subject is because when my sister and I were children and especially when we were teenagers it was drilled into us that looks aren't important. Both my parents would have always prioritised academic achievement and just generally being sound over material gain or physical appearance as the stuff they'd praise us on. My dad is an artist and he's got, as he puts it "a highly developed sense of aesthetics", when we were little he was mad about dressing us up, we both had ridiculously long hair and he treated us like dolls a little bit (not that he wasn't more interested in us as people, he just loved that stuff). He was down the business end of things when I was being born and apparently the first thing he told my mam was "Yes! It hasn't got me ears!". Even into our teens he would compliment us on our outfits or haircuts, really enjoy buying us cool clothes, and generally encourage us to take pride in our looks.

My mam on the other hand was nearly pathological about discouraging any kind of vanity in us, she went a bit overboard on it really. I remember when I was 16 I wanted to drop down to pass maths and she bitched me out about how I was probably thinking it wasn't sexy to be intelligent and it was a really stupid way to be carrying on and she didn't want me turning into some vapid little pretty idiot, fact was I'd just discovered the joys of alcohol and weed, I'd always been very shy and had a tough time of it in school and I was just starting to find a group of friends I really liked, I was coming out of my shell and wasn't burying myself in books as much, I knew I wanted to do English in college so I just couldn't be bothered with honours maths. She's a highly intelligent woman herself, she had three kids by the time she was 27 and didn't get a chance to go back to education until we were older, looking back I'd say she was a woman who got very frustrated by being seen as the artist's beautiful wife with the pretty children (she's now a psychotherapist and has had poetry published).

That's a bit rambling anyway, but I never really did give much of a crap about my looks, maybe a bit in my teens. I do get compliments, especially on the rare occasions where I make an effort and get dressed up, but my reaction generally ranges from not bothered to slightly uncomfortable - at the back of my mind I'm always hearing my mam's voice going "oh, you just think you're great don't you?". Even when intimate partners say something complimentary I usually respond by telling them to shut up. As far as I've been aware I've never traded on or benefited from my looks, like I said at the start it's not like I'm stunning or anything but I do present myself in a way that plays down my appearance - my clothes are usually not revealing and pretty baggy, I don't wear make-up most days, I have glasses, and I don't think anyone could describe my hair as a "style" :P. That's partly because I genuinely just like a scruffier, hippie-ish look, partly because I was never a girly, groomed kind of person, and partly because I do resent being evaluated on my looks rather than who I am, and it is something that happens when I present myself differently. My intelligence would be the thing I value most about myself and consider a very important part of my identity, and I think people do tend to assume that you're NOT intelligent if you're attractive.

As another poster put it, my "social currency" is not my looks, it's my personality and my intellect. I mean yeah, obviously if I'm trying to get sexually or romantically involved with someone I'll use my looks because in that context they're relevant; but I don't care if my friends or strangers think I'm beautiful, and it's not something I care about in other people.

Lau2976

Memphis Disgusting Painter wrote: »

My dad is an artist and he's got, as he puts it "a highly developed sense of aesthetics", when we were little he was mad about dressing us up, we both had ridiculously long hair and he treated us like dolls a little bit (not that he wasn't more interested in us as people, he just loved that stuff). He was down the business end of things when I was being born and apparently the first thing he told my mam was "Yes! It hasn't got me ears!". Even into our teens he would compliment us on our outfits or haircuts, really enjoy buying us cool clothes, and generally encourage us to take pride in our looks.

That's quite interesting because I find, as an artist myself, I tend to be less preoccupied with people appearances on the level. The things that the change aren't really of interest to me, like clothes or hair, but the things they can't change that I find really interesting. Maybe it's just me but, in terms of something being aesthetically appealing in models or in general, I find that clothes and hair and make up doesn't really matter. When you draw or paint someone those aren't the things that shine through. It's their nose or their skin texture. Those are the prominent things.

I would never slate someone's father but I always find this a bit condesending myself. I would rather my dad not comment on my appearance at all. But my dad has always been uptight so maybe it's just that. To me the clothes you wear shouldn't matter to your parents. Not should how you present yourself to others. Not in your teens anyway.

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Lau2976 wrote: »

That's quite interesting because I find, as an artist myself, I tend to be less preoccupied with people appearances on the level. The things that the change aren't really of interest to me, like clothes or hair, but the things they can't change that I find really interesting. Maybe it's just me but, in terms of something being aesthetically appealing in models or in general, I find that clothes and hair and make up doesn't really matter. When you draw or paint someone those aren't the things that shine through. It's their nose or their skin texture. Those are the prominent things.

I would never slate someone's father but I always find this a bit condesending myself. I would rather my dad not comment on my appearance at all. But my dad has always been uptight so maybe it's just that. To me the clothes you wear shouldn't matter to your parents. Not should how you present yourself to others. Not in your teens anyway.

well he's a textile artist so he's always been mad about clothes. I had a feeling when I was writing that that I might be giving the wrong impression of him so I should probably clarify a bit.

He's a very visual person, he take pleasure and pride in creating and seeing things that look good, be it food on the plate, the flowers in the garden, the pictures on the wall or whatever. It's not that he considers people's looks something fundamental or particularly important about them, I'd say he looks at the whole thing as more of an enjoyable hobby or recreation. He'd never tell us how to dress, or to make ourselves presentable if we're just slobbing around or anything like that, but it's a hobby that he's tried to pass on to us and a way that he bonds with us - he's had more success with my sister, who's also now an artist, than with me. My brother got the same treatment, so it's not like it's because we're girls.

But, he also taught me to read before I started school, nearly broke the bank taking us on holiday or sending us on school trips because he believes travel is really important, and helped me to pay for a masters that didn't have any kind of secure career path leading out of it because he understood and agreed with my attitude that learning as much as I could about a subject I was passionate about was very much worth doing for its own sake. Those are just illustrative examples, but my point is that while I know he takes a certain pride in the fact that his children are good-looking, it's not that our looks particularly matter to him, certainly it's not something that's anywhere near as important as our morals, our happiness, our intelligence, and our senses of humour. I don't recall him ever once passing a negative comment on my appearance or getting the sense that he wishes I'd dress up more or anything, and it's not like when we have a chat we're talking about what I'm going to do with my hair.

Betty Bloggs

Memphis Disgusting Painter wrote: »

well he's a textile artist so he's always been mad about clothes. I had a feeling when I was writing that that I might be giving the wrong impression of him so I should probably clarify a bit.

He's a very visual person, he take pleasure and pride in creating and seeing things that look good, be it food on the plate, the flowers in the garden, the pictures on the wall or whatever. It's not that he considers people's looks something fundamental or particularly important about them, I'd say he looks at the whole thing as more of an enjoyable hobby or recreation. He'd never tell us how to dress, or to make ourselves presentable if we're just slobbing around or anything like that, but it's a hobby that he's tried to pass on to us and a way that he bonds with us - he's had more success with my sister, who's also now an artist, than with me. My brother got the same treatment, so it's not like it's because we're girls.

But, he also taught me to read before I started school, nearly broke the bank taking us on holiday or sending us on school trips because he believes travel is really important, and helped me to pay for a masters that didn't have any kind of secure career path leading out of it because he understood and agreed with my attitude that learning as much as I could about a subject I was passionate about was very much worth doing for its own sake. Those are just illustrative examples, but my point is that while I know he takes a certain pride in the fact that his children are good-looking, it's not that our looks particularly matter to him, certainly it's not something that's anywhere near as important as our morals, our happiness, our intelligence, and our senses of humour. I don't recall him ever once passing a negative comment on my appearance or getting the sense that he wishes I'd dress up more or anything, and it's not like when we have a chat we're talking about what I'm going to do with my hair.

I don't see much harm in that. My own mum when I was very young had a great time buying me little dresses and putting ribbons or bows in my hair. I liked these things too. When I went through the short phase of for some reason wanting to wear fluorescent or multicoloured everything she supported that too (good god why?!:o)
She was equally as happy and proud when I did well in school.

meeeeh

I am the opposite. I always valued my mother's opinion on clothes. It is not that I was encouraged to be vain (in fact the opposite) but I was always given out if my shoes were dirty or if I was wearing stuff that didn't suit me or it wasn't ironed. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Some people have stronger sense of aesthetics or they try express something with their outfit or make up and there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is when make up and clothes are all that matters.

Btw where I come from it would be rarely thought that good looking people are not intelligent. However mad use of make up or clothing that is too revealing could be interpreted in that way.

Saralee4

Another thing that I was thinking of in terms of people receiving compliments for their beauty is the whole Facebook thing. I think you can clearly see the Addictive Validation thing i was talking about in another post and its not just women its men too.

Nearly on EVERY girls profile photo there are comments saying 'stunning', 'gorgeous', 'absolute beauty'. I've nothing against it, its nice to get a compliment and it seems rather innocent. Most people consider it harmless but i wonder if it is.

Its mostly other women congratulating one another on their appearance in the photo which is great to see but sometimes it feels so phoney especially since nearly everyone looks completely different in nearly every photo or they keep putting up basically the same photo with a different shade of lipstick or something. And the reaction is over exaggerated like 'wow you just look amazing misses' or 'you took my breath away'. Its like we are all in that happy drunk phase online where everyone is lovely and great haha wtf!

I've also seen some, lets say, unflattering photos of people that get a lot of praise about how they are so good looking too. Now I don't see anything wrong with trying to make someone happy but what is this telling the receiver of the compliment? And what really is the point of changing the profile photo, is it purely to get compliments.

Maybe people are complimenting the persons inner beauty and its more popularity?

The posting of the photos does often seem to me to be fishing for compliments so is it a kind of 'oh put her out of her misery, give her a like and tell her she's gorgeous'? Now I am just as guilty as this than anyone else and on both sides so im no saint.

Then again I think 'ok ill put a nice photo of myself up as my profile, it makes me feel good when i think i look nice so why not capture because i wont look like that for long and its nice to create a good impression even if its only based on your looks' and on the other hand im thinking 'oh god that looks so vain and attention seeking' but i don't want to put a crap picture of myself up either haha- bear in mind im not talking about duck faces or a lot of profile changes or anything like that for myself haha - i don't want ye'all thinking im that bad haha.

Im actually considering leaving facebook because Im finding it a very shallow place to be and im not really enjoying it anymore. Im not really sure what its all about other than advertising companies, products and more importantly, selling and advertising yourself.

sashafierce

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