New version of the commissioner's guidelines & AGS/DoJ Proposals

Sparks

A new version of the Commissioner's guidelines has gone up on the Garda website here.

It's missing a handy "what's changed" section, but from a first glance, apart from minor typographical tweaks (mostly going from present to past tense as the last major update to this was in 2009), there's a tidying up of the substitution section which now gives a bit more detail of how you do the substitution using the FCA1 form (and that you don't need more photos, referees, medical details and so on for a substitution) and some more detail on submitting firearms to the AGS for destruction.

But the biggest change is that Annex A, the list of "example suitable pistols" is now gone. I can't find mention of it anywhere on the Garda site at the moment, or in the guidelines, or any explanation of why it's gone...

Cass

Sparks wrote: »

...... there's a tidying up of the substitution section which now gives a bit more detail of how you do the substitution using the FCA1 form (and that you don't need more photos, referees, medical details and so on for a substitution).................

That will be a huge help. It's gotten to the point, recently, whereby whenever i go to do a sub the Super (old one, not the new one) will not accept it without everything that usually accompanies a full application. Wven when i point out there is no need for it i was told "The Super won't sign off on your Sub unless you submit everything being asked for regardless of whether it's necessary or not". So being able to point to not only the legislation, but the Comm's guidelines will help reduce the amount of back and forth trying to explain.

As for this:

But the biggest change is that Annex A, the list of "example suitable pistols" is now gone. I can't find mention of it anywhere on the Garda site at the moment, or in the guidelines, or any explanation of why it's gone

Maybe it's the skeptic in me, but i don't think it's a"they've relaxed" thing. Perhaps, and hopefully, i'm wrong however are we really lucky enough to think believe that they will consider any pistol on the merits of the application rather than what it's "designed for".

BattleCorp

Cass wrote: »

As for this:

Maybe it's the skeptic in me, but i don't think it's a"they've relaxed" thing. Perhaps, and hopefully, i'm wrong however are we really lucky enough to think believe that they will consider any pistol on the merits of the application rather than what it's "designed for".

More like they will try to get rid of the pistols I think.

Cass

I really hope not. I highly doubt it's an unintentional omission. I'm hoping it's a case of judge each gun/application on it's merits and eliminate a feature that has been a constant thorn in the side of both shooters, and An Gardaí, as the Commissioner's Guidelines have been marched out as though they were the definitive guide to what's allowed leading to numerous problems.

Only time will tell i suppose.

BattleCorp

Cass wrote: »

I really hope not. I highly doubt it's an unintentional omission. I'm hoping it's a case of judge each gun/application on it's merits and eliminate a feature that has been a constant thorn in the side of both shooters, and An Gardaí, as the Commissioner's Guidelines have been marched out as though they were the definitive guide to what's allowed leading to numerous problems.

Only time will tell i suppose.

I'll be negative and say that it removes our argument to be allowed a pistol because it's on the list as a suitable pistol for target shooting.

The Gardai had difficulty arguing against licencing a pistol if it was in the Guidelines but now they can object to everything.

Cass

I'd be inclined to take the positive and say that it removes any limitations the guidelines created.

There have been dozens of pistols not on the list that were licensed at great personal cost to the people licensing them. The only reason for this was because they were not on the list. This did/does not make them in any way less appropriate for the purpose in which they were being licensed.

The other aspect is, and while a sledgehammer to a walnut, the Minister does not need our blessing or permission. If she was intending to ban pistols or restrict them to the point they cannot be licensed there are other ways to do it that are more effective and less vague than removing them from a list.

Grizzly 45

Reckon that with challanges in the HC on the appropriate type of pistols and a VERY dated recommended list,they have pulled it until some sort of definitive answer comes out of this in March[?] 2015.

he Gardai had difficulty arguing against licencing a pistol if it was in the Guidelines but now they can object to everything.

They objected to pistols that were on the guideline lists as well,as a half dozen Hammerli Xcesse appliciations are due in the HC as well. Simple fact is,no matter what you would produce and give for reasons,it just is either Govt or Garda policy NOT to issue no matter what any "especially dangerous"[As per the Templemore bible aka Garda guide] handgun liscenses no matter what.

Tackleberry.

Well as I sit here after reading the Judement of my case which was heard last week in Ennis (emailed today from W Eagans office) it is in my opinion the start of a lot of trouble for pistol owners.
We can now expect for every non Olympic pistol to end up in court... Sure it's on the list ...what list... A bit like when the copper ate Nidges tax disc..

Kryten

Maybe they are scrapping the list, and going solely with the legislation in the SI

Kryten

Makes it easier for refusing anything which doesn't conform to the description of non restricted in the act.

Deaf git

On page 9 there is a reference to 'Annex F' which supposedly gives info on suitability. Annex F appears to have been lost though, but might turn up at a later stage.
And
A worrying reference to adjustability of pistols on page 22. Humble Rugers, Buckmarks etc aint readily adjustable afaik.

cw67irl

Annex F was the old List

Looks to be a touch of careless cut and paste rather than anything significant. Either they will look at apps on each ones merit and suitability or its designed to make the "common" Buckmarks ect more awkward to get as they aren't adjustible enough. Likewise the barrel length 10 cm= 3.9 Inchs how many common pistols have a shorter barrel than that. I can think of a couple!!

mrbrianj

Most modern models of buckmarks and ruger mk3's have adjustable sights. They come in target set up, 5.5 inch barrels. Clearly target pistols, maybe not as good as high end Walters or pardinis' or the like, but still good target pistols.

They don't look like police/military combat guns. But the hammerli should also fit this bill

Sparks

Posts on the new AGS proposals to clamp down on firearms ownership moved to their own thread here.