ICT Specialists (Executive Officer level) in Civil Service

The_Conductor

Which Dept- and whats the nature of the section? I.e. it could be a sort of a cross-over, semi-technical/semi-business (which is what the role often can be)..........

Don't overthink it anyway- its highly unlikely that a technical post would be in an admin section- its so hard to get sanction to recruit technical posts- it would be a waste of a tech grade.

kiersm

Has anyone heard about people being offered spots outside of Dublin? My OH is on the list and I'm wondering has anyone any ideas when they might look to fill these posts?

Slydice

kiersm wrote: »

Has anyone heard about people being offered spots outside of Dublin? My OH is on the list and I'm wondering has anyone any ideas when they might look to fill these posts?

From what I know of revenue which is only through word of mouth and seeing some of their facilities and offices, I don't think they do much of their ICT work outside Dublin.

I don't know how their inner workings work though. Maybe there's a chance (but my feeling is it would be slim) that they have a member or two of their ICT staff in regional offices to handle support for those offices.

I think they have a big pensions office in Sligo. Maybe they have big offices elsewhere. I'd _GUESS_ that maybe where they have big offices, you'd have your best chance. (you know so check if there's a big office nearby)

wos

Yenwood wrote: »

Has anybody here been officially assigned from this panel yet? It would seem people's offers & contracts are for "the role of Executive Officer" without any mention of ICT which seems curious and maybe a little worrying?

Sudden transfer to a general EO grade since you didn't sign an EO (ICT) contract? Or am I being a way too paranoid civil servant??

The_Conductor wrote: »

It is a role of Executive Officer (with an ICT tag).
It is incredibly unlikely, given how difficult it is to recruit an EO ICT, that you would in an area other than an ICT area (however- its not impossible).

Most EO ICTs would simply say they were an EO- as would personnel, or anyone else. On peoplepoint- there would be a distinction though- it would have your technical tag associated with the post- if you were to view your profile.

The_Conductor (and others):

Given the points from previous posts (quoted below), if you did look to move to a more desirable location later on, could you be ineligible for specific EO-ICT posts at these locations because your contract only states EO (not EO-ICT)?

Also, as an EO-ICT, would you be allowed to apply for transfer for general EO positions in a more desirable location? Would having EO-ICT in contract (or not having it in contract) affect this?

Reasons for above questions - imagine the scenario where you were looking to transfer in the future to a more desirable location. Location A is close (no EO-ICT staff), Location B is an acceptable distance away (certainly a lot closer than Dublin) and does have EO-ICT staff. Because of the ICT role, Location B would actually be preferable to Location A (but for an ICT role only, not general). Would having the full EO-ICT in contract be relevant and important then?

It would feel like a tough topic to broach with HR of that department before you have even started (or got a contract).

Thanks.

Moocifer wrote: »

That happens it depends on the competition you do. If you do a standard HEO you have to go back to general service but if you a HEO Analyst one you would stay in ICT. Actually that scenario applies to someone I know. Got the standard HEO last year and had to move out of ICT.

The_Conductor wrote: »

As for posts outside of Dublin- several Departments have considerable IT expertise outside of Dublin- and while you may not be posted to one of these locations initially- normally you could expect to move to a more desireable location over time.

As an EO ICT- I got out of Dublin- to a regional location, close to home, and convenient for bringing the children to school etc- eventually....... It took me a few years to get to my desired location- and there was a bit of give and take to achieve it. I've at least 3 hours extra in my day because of the move.

Slydice

wos wrote: »

The_Conductor (and others):

Given the points from previous posts (quoted below), if you did look to move to a more desirable location later on, could you be ineligible for specific EO-ICT posts at these locations because your contract only states EO (not EO-ICT)?

Also, as an EO-ICT, would you be allowed to apply for transfer for general EO positions in a more desirable location? Would having EO-ICT in contract (or not having it in contract) affect this?

Reasons for above questions - imagine the scenario where you were looking to transfer in the future to a more desirable location. Location A is close (no EO-ICT staff), Location B is an acceptable distance away (certainly a lot closer than Dublin) and does have EO-ICT staff. Because of the ICT role, Location B would actually be preferable to Location A (but for an ICT role only, not general). Would having the full EO-ICT in contract be relevant and important then?

It would feel like a tough topic to broach with HR of that department before you have even started (or got a contract).

Thanks.

My thoughts/guesses are:
- All the transfers at the moment will need to be OK'd be management.
- Management probably look to see if they are losing some skills they need before they give any transfer an OK
- Location doesn't matter with a transfer once management are OK with it
- EO and EO (ICT) can transfer with each other
- Staffing numbers have been cut in recent year so transfers at the moment might be more difficult than you think
- I'd say there's probably very big queues of people ahead of new entrants for transfer to outside of Dublin

The_Conductor

EO and EO ICT cannot transfer with one another. An EO ICT can transfer in and out of Tech or Admin roles- an EO cannot- they are confined to Admin sections. The only way for an EO to get into ICT- is by doing an external competition (there aren't any internal competitions for it)- and indeed- several currently serving EOs have gotten EO ICT (obviously they needed the requisite qualifications- but with the IPA teaching ICT courses to degree level- its far from uncommon). Its not an unusual occurence- and it would indeed have been very common before they abolished the ICT allowances.

wos

The_Conductor wrote: »

EO and EO ICT cannot transfer with one another. An EO ICT can transfer in and out of Tech or Admin roles- an EO cannot- they are confined to Admin sections.

This is good to know - so is the fact that the contract would be for EO an issue, or is it unimportant as the competition was / role would be EO ICT?

(perhaps overthinking it is happening as previously mentioned)

Slydice

The_Conductor wrote: »

EO and EO ICT cannot transfer with one another. An EO ICT can transfer in and out of Tech or Admin roles- an EO cannot- they are confined to Admin sections. The only way for an EO to get into ICT- is by doing an external competition

Odd that the Union mag has an EO ICT looking to swap with an EO. You'd think the Union would know.

Hans Bricks

I know a lad who made the interview cut out of 200 applicants. It's more aimed towards recent graduates looking for a starter role I imagine. I was considering it myself, but I already have a job lined up. The leaving cert results criteria is ****ing ridiculous though. Who gives a monkeys what you got in 5 LC modules once you have your degree and relevant experience ? Not to mention the not so subtle threats of legal action upon discovery of little white lies.

rostalof

Hans Bricks wrote: »

I know a lad who made the interview cut out of 200 applicants. It's more aimed towards recent graduates looking for a starter role I imagine. I was considering it myself, but I already have a job lined up. The leaving cert results criteria is ****ing ridiculous though. Who gives a monkeys what you got in 5 LC modules once you have your degree and relevant experience ? Not to mention the not so subtle threats of legal action upon discovery of little white lies.

It was pointed out in the advertisement and earlier in the thread that a degree supercedes the LC requirements.

Zipppy

Hans Bricks wrote:

I know a lad who made the interview cut out of 200 applicants. It's more aimed towards recent graduates looking for a starter role I imagine.

Are you confusing this with AO ICT in Revenue?

Hans Bricks

rostalof wrote: »

It was pointed out in the advertisement and earlier in the thread that a degree supercedes the LC requirements.

Oh did it ? When I read it it seemed to put a lot of emphasis on LC points. More so than qualifications.

Zipppy wrote: »

Are you confusing this with AO ICT in Revenue?

No thats the one I'm talking about.

rostalof

Did anybody ever hear, possibly those of you already working in the CS, how many EO(ICT) positions there may need to be filled from this recruitment competition?

The_Conductor

Slydice wrote: »

Odd that the Union mag has an EO ICT looking to swap with an EO. You'd think the Union would know.

Sounds odd- something funny happening there.......
No issue with the EO ICT going to an Admin EO role- the opposite is not the case though....... depending on the Department opportunities for training may be quite limited in nature too- sounds like someone could be in for a bit of a shock.......

I don't see how it could possibly work........

The_Conductor

rostalof wrote: »

Did anybody ever hear, possibly those of you already working in the CS, how many EO(ICT) positions there may need to be filled from this recruitment competition?

Depends entirely on what you ask, and who you ask.
Several Departments have improbable numbers of contractors working in ICT roles (very few if any who'd have any interest in going for an EO ICT role- as financially they are far better off as contractors).

So- if there was a push to bring in new blood, have effective knowledge transfer (which is somewhere the public sector has traditionally fell down in- knowledge transfer has been ridiculously poor)from contractors- and then let the contractors go slowly as contracts are complete- you could potentially have a couple of hundred posts.

However- a new staff member will take time to even familiarise themselves with the systems they are developing and supporting- depending on the system- this could take at least 6 months- and possibly a year- and this is wholly before any training for new starts of a technical nature (think SQL, Java, SAP or other training) might take place.......

So- it would probably be drip feeding new starts onto fairly mature projects, over time........

On top of all of this- you also have to factor DPER sanctions for posts in various Departments. Staff ceilings are set rigidly. They include agencies under the auspices of Departments. So- say a state sector entity under the auspices of DSP were to employ a front office receptionist, or an additional telephonist- which could be entirely justifiable- they would reduce the capacity of DSP HQ to employ a person- by 1. The staff ceilings are rigidly applied- and all HODs have to report on their staffing in whole time equivalents, actual numbers- and costings (all the way down to HEO- you have to advise how many people you have reporting to you- and the cost of them). Up against all of this- you'll have some Divisions- where staff may not be spread as thinly on the ground as others (esp. after the decentralisations which were never fully followed through on).

I could go on and on........

Essentially- its an ultimate bureaucracy- composed of various Divisions, which are for all intents and purposes, feifdoms- under the control of a PO- and every PO will fight to keep their staff- regardless of who dire someone elses' need may be. Several Divisions would be grouped under an Assistant Secretary- with a few ASGs under the most senior civil servant in the Department- the Secretary. Every civil servant in a government Department answers to the Secretary of the Department- who in turn, is tasked with implementing government policy.

How many EO ICT positions are there? Its as nebulous a question as any other. There isn't an answer- other than........ it depends......... (how I hated people who came up with that for an answer..........)

You'll see some damn strange things, mark my words.........

InReality

Slydice wrote: »

Odd that the Union mag has an EO ICT looking to swap with an EO. You'd think the Union would know.

It will depend on the senior managers involved at the end of the day.

A swap can happen - depending on what the ICT side involves.
The person moving into the ICT section might possibly do a job that would not require ICT skills.

However the any new person would not have an ICT "tag."

InReality

As regards numbers .. As the conductor says it depends on what happens with contractors.
Generally these are hired on the basis of x amount of specific experience in ABC. So how transferrable a new EO is into a contractor role is a tricky call and i don't know how they are deciding that or even if each dept is taking a different approach to it.

Your looking at revenue , agriculture and SW for the main IT sections.

I think it could be anywhere from 10-80 - its very random.

Slydice

InReality wrote: »

It will depend on the senior managers involved at the end of the day.

A swap can happen - depending on what the ICT side involves.
The person moving into the ICT section might possibly do a job that would not require ICT skills.

However the any new person would not have an ICT "tag."

I was thinking similar. If the person has the skills, the manager would probably be happy to facilitate the transfer.

The_Conductor

Slydice wrote: »

I was thinking similar. If the person has the skills, the manager would probably be happy to facilitate the transfer.

The push is really on to train EO ICTs in specific disciplines- i.e. to push them into SAP, or Java, or SQL- and not just general ICT posts. Most of the larger project teams- need specific disciplines. There is some cross-over, but its becoming less and less common. You may have a general EO in some ICT Divisions- doing admin stuff- but this would also be unusual (though not unheard of- I can think of two offhand without overtaxing my mind where I work).

It really would depend on the case that the HODs made to one another (and it could boil down to whether one decided to do the other a favour or not)- but in general- these things are not supposed to happen.

How it often happens- might be- as a long term loan from one Division to another- eventually presented to Personnel as a fait acompli at some stage down the road........

Its not standard practice.

InReality

I wouldn't bank on it either.

Zipppy

Any further progress here?

rostalof

Any further updates for anyone?

fxotoole

I know someone who did their interview a few weeks back and has already been offered a position.

Zipppy

How's this process moving along ?

The_Conductor

Zipppy wrote: »

How's this process moving along ?

I imagine its moving fairly rapidly.
I know of 4 different people who have refused posts- based on the salary (why they didn't check the salary scale in advance is beyond me.........)

doncarlos

Zipppy wrote: »

How's this process moving along ?

I got offered a position. Not sure if I will take it or not as you don't find out the roll or who you're working for until the contract is in place. Even then I'm not sure you find out the roll until you actually start the job. It's a bit of a shambles.

doncarlos

The_Conductor wrote: »

I know of 4 different people who have refused posts- based on the salary

Love this. And people still think the public sector get paid massive wages??

kippy

doncarlos wrote: »

Love this. And people still think the public sector get paid massive wages??

TBF IT is a pretty good sector in private sector land.

rostalof

If any of you are on the panel and haven't heard any more from the PAS, contacting them may be in your interest. I did and I was told that because I live outside of Dublin and the current jobs are all in Dublin, it was presumed I wouldn't be interested. I expressed my interest and am due to start at the end of the month.

Maximus_1

That is some crazy presumption to make!