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Suspended sentence and fine for student who made 'wicked' false rape claim

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    #62
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    That's a strawman.

    How is that a strawman? You're saying that her crime is irrelevant because it didn't succeed.


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    #63
    NomadicGray
    Registered Users Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭NomadicGray


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    From the opening piece;



    Gardai were "close to making an arrest".


    I dont understand how this. How were they close to making an arrest when there was actually zero evidence of a crime? Or is an accusation enough for an arrest?


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    #64
    William F
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭William F


    Ireland is suffering from a suspended sentence epidemic. It's time to get tough on criminals.

    I'm willing to pay more taxes to see scum like this behind bars where they belong.


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    #65
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Arne_Saknussem wrote: »
    I'm not trying to whip up anything, i'm saying that a false accusation of rape is serious business especially given that the woman in question indicated that an actual person she encountered while out on her walk had raped her.

    I'm saying that just because an arrest didn't occur in this case doesn't lessen the seriousness of what she did, it only lessens the consequences of what she did.


    What she did was of course serious, but there's no point in saying that "because such and such could have happened, it should be taken more seriously". There's no point in charging her with a custodial sentence, and the Judge said as much.

    The guy in the OP may think that the sentence was too lenient, that's a matter of opinion.

    And again, as you seem to have ignored this, his post that someone could have ended up in a cell was a response to another poster saying 'poor girl', he never mentioned that she should have been given a stiffer sentence because of she could have done.


    Really? He said in his opening post -

    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    A free flight home, a three month suspended sentence and a €600 fine. Is that sufficient? I don't think that it is. She should at least be made pay back the costs of the Gardai investigation. Crap like this makes it more difficult for real victims of sexual assault to come forward. It's disgusting to lie about such a thing.
    ...

    Some innocent chap was very close to being pulled in and arrested under suspicion of rape. That in itself, could have ruined his life.

    Thoughts?


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    #66
    NomadicGray
    Registered Users Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭NomadicGray


    Awkward Badger wrote: »
    Jesus all that to go home early from a job she didn't have ?

    Christ, I''m gona have to come up with one hell of a scheme to get out of my actual job early this week


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    #67
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    How is that a strawman? You're saying that her crime is irrelevant because it didn't succeed.


    That's another strawman. I never said any such thing, so I wont be arguing against what I never said, nor what you're trying to make out I said, based on a rationale you're trying to ascribe to me which was based on another strawman.


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    #68
    Bhopkov
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 14 ✭Bhopkov


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    That's another strawman. I never said any such thing, so I wont be arguing against what I never said, nor what you're trying to make out I said, based on a rationale you're trying to ascribe to me which was based on another strawman.

    It's not a strawman, it's a text book and legitimate debating technique whereby your flawed logic is identified.


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    #69
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    That's another strawman. I never said any such thing, so I wont be arguing against what I never said, nor what you're trying to make out I said, based on a rationale you're trying to ascribe to me which was based on another strawman.

    Ok, here's the post I was quoting, again:

    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    It's not me is running with anything. You and the OP are trying to whip up a bit of outrage on the basis of something that didn't happen. For clarity sake -

    Nobody was accused by the Gardaí, arrested for, or even charged with committing rape.

    I'm not sure where the OP got the bit about the free flight home either if they're using the same article they quoted from in the OP?

    The bolded parts are where you seem to imply that because her attempt to pervert the course of justice was unsuccessful, we should be less outraged by it. My analogy is therefore perfect - you're arguing that attempted crime is not something to be outraged by.


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    #70
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    There is institutionalized misandry and sexism in the way false rape claims are treated in the courts. Innocent men have committed suicide when falsely accused with nobody believing their claims of innocence until after they were dead and the Gardai treating them like lowlifes. There has to be another way to deal with this issue. Genuine rape victims should be handled with care but the accused also need some measure of proper handling too. After the hell which false claims put them through, and in a state which cannot afford policing false claims a suspended sentence is not justice.


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    #71
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Awkward Badger wrote: »
    Jesus all that to go home early from a job she didn't have ?
    NomadicGray wrote: »
    Christ, I''m gona have to come up with one hell of a scheme to get out of my actual job early this week

    I am reminded irresistibly of the infamous bank robbery scene from Father Ted.

    Ted: You haven't been up to your old tricks again, have you Tom?
    Tom: No Father, 'tis my money - I just couldn't be arsed filling out the forms. :D


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    #72
    Arne_Saknussem
    Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭Arne_Saknussem


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    What she did was of course serious, but there's no point in saying that "because such and such could have happened, it should be taken more seriously". There's no point in charging her with a custodial sentence, and the Judge said as much.

    Nobody has said this. I said that because an arrest didn't happen, it doesn't make her false allegation of rape any less serious.

    As for a custodial sentence, in your opinion there's no point for one , the Judge agrees. The OP doesn't i'd imagine, which is why he started the thread.

    One eyed Jack wrote: »


    Really? He said in his opening post -

    Is that sufficient? I don't think that it is. She should at least be made pay back the costs of the Gardai investigation

    Yeah he doesn't think the punishment is sufficient for the crime, that's his opinion.

    Where does he say "she should have been given a stiffer sentence because of she could have done"?


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    #73
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13666066

    In the UK Feminists fought against a law to end to the justice system favoring women simply because they are women, and giving men harsher sentences simply because they are men.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10760239

    Feminists fought against laws granting men anonymity until charged with the crime of rape—not convicted, just charged.

    Whats the legal situation in Ireland about this ? Where the UK goes , we usually dont take long to follow.


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    #74
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Ok, here's the post I was quoting, again:




    The bolded parts are where you seem to imply that because her attempt to pervert the course of justice was unsuccessful, we should be less outraged by it. My analogy is therefore perfect - you're arguing that attempted crime is not something to be outraged by.


    I'm not saying that though, and I never said that. You concluded that from a post where I maintained that her claim of rape was not deserving of a more serious punishment. Then you made some claim about murder and attempted murder, claiming that I was making out that attempted murder wasn't as serious as murder.

    For what it's worth though, it isn't, as nobody has actually died.


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    #75
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Arne_Saknussem wrote: »
    Nobody has said this. I said that because an arrest didn't happen, it doesn't make her false allegation of rape any less serious.

    As for a custodial sentence, in your opinion there's no point for one , the Judge agrees. The OP doesn't i'd imagine, which is why he started the thread.


    Her false allegation of rape would have been more serious if someone had actually been accused of rape. The difference is - they weren't. That's why her false allegation of rape isn't as serious as if someone had been accused by Gardaí of rape.

    Yeah he doesn't think the punishment is sufficient for the crime, that's his opinion.

    Where does he say "she should have been given a stiffer sentence because of she could have done"?


    It's the implication in the last part of the opening post. There's only one way that can be interpreted.


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    #76
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    MOD

    Masculinist, stop with the soapboxing. Not every thread has be feminists did this, feminists did that.


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    #77
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    MOD

    Masculinist, stop with the soapboxing. Not every thread has be feminists did this, feminists did that.

    Yes Sir. You got it. By way of explanation there just seems to be a few threads like that around at this moment. It's not the only type of topic I comment on.
    I just thought how it connected with the wider legal framework both here and in our nearest neighbour [and who lobbied for it too] might throw some additional light onto how the courts made their decision..


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    #78
    Arne_Saknussem
    Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭Arne_Saknussem


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Her false allegation of rape would have been more serious if someone had actually been accused of rape. The difference is - they weren't. That's why her false allegation of rape isn't as serious as if someone had been accused by Gardaí of rape.


    There is no scale of seriousness involving the charge, as i said a false accusation of rape is a false accusation of rape.

    The consequences of the accusation may vary and may even affect sentencing, but they don't lessen the seriousness of her false accusation.

    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    It's the implication in the last part of the opening post. There's only one way that can be interpreted.


    Nope, that's the way you interpreted it.


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    #79
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Arne_Saknussem wrote: »
    There is no scale of seriousness involving the charge, as i said a false accusation of rape is a false accusation of rape.


    There is of course a scale of seriousness involved in the case, and the sentencing will reflect the seriousness of the offence depending on the circumstances of each individual case.

    The consequences of the accusation may vary and may even affect sentencing, but they don't lessen the seriousness of her false accusation.


    They do, because the consequences in this particular case were not as serious as someone who has been accused of rape by the Gardaí.


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    #80
    Arne_Saknussem
    Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭Arne_Saknussem


    One eyed Jack wrote: »





    They do, because the consequences in this particular case were not as serious as someone who has been accused of rape by the Gardaí.


    No, they don't. The consequences of her accusation may affect impact and sentencing but they don't make her crime 'less serious'.


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    #81
    Arne_Saknussem
    Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭Arne_Saknussem


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    There is of course a scale of seriousness involved in the case, and the sentencing will reflect the seriousness of the offence depending on the circumstances of each individual case.





    They do, because the consequences in this particular case were not as serious as someone who has been accused of rape by the Gardaí.

    No, they don't. The consequences of her accusation will affect impact and sentencing but they don't make her crime 'less serious'.


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    #82
    Arne_Saknussem
    Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭Arne_Saknussem


    One eyed Jack wrote: »


    They do, because the consequences in this particular case were not as serious as someone who has been accused of rape by the Gardaí.


    No, they don't. The consequences of her accusation will affect impact and sentencing but they don't make her crime 'less serious'.


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    #83
    Arne_Saknussem
    Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭Arne_Saknussem


    One eyed Jack wrote: »

    They do, because the consequences in this particular case were not as serious as someone who has been accused of rape by the Gardaí.

    No, they don't. The consequences of her accusation will affect impact and sentencing but they don't make her crime 'less serious'.


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    #84
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Arne_Saknussem wrote: »
    No, they don't. The consequences of her accusation will affect impact and sentencing but they don't make her crime 'less serious'.


    She was charged with making a false statement to Gardaí -

    Thais Regina De Oliveira, 21, who had been residing with her boyfriend and other flatmates at Cabra Park in Dublin, pleaded guilty today to making a false statement to officers at Mountjoy garda station on August 25 last.


    She was fined €600, given a three month sentence, suspended for two years on condition she doesn't reoffend, and authorities are talking about deporting her from Ireland back to Brazil.

    Really, what more do you want exactly?


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    #85
    prizefighter
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭prizefighter


    Soft Falling Rain wrote: »
    "Society wouldn't gain from her being imprisoned." Lawyers, there's not a yarn that can't be spun.

    This attitude is what really gets me. So sentencing shouldn't have a punitive element only an aspect of societal safeguarding. That is madness, surely the use of prison should be enough to deter criminality but if judges don't factor in punishment as a reason for incarceration then what is the ****ing point??!!!!


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    #86
    Arne_Saknussem
    Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭Arne_Saknussem


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    She was charged with making a false statement to Gardaí -





    She was fined €600, given a three month sentence, suspended for two years on condition she doesn't reoffend, and authorities are talking about deporting her from Ireland back to Brazil.

    Really, what more do you want exactly?


    I never said she should have gotten a longer or shorter sentence.


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    #87
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Arne_Saknussem wrote: »
    I never said she should have gotten a longer or shorter sentence.


    So, just help me out here, what are you saying exactly?


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    #88
    Gordon Minard
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Gordon Minard


    She should have gotten a serious "dip" in prison for that:

    - potentially ruining somebody's life

    - wasting Garda time

    I would love to know how that nonsense would be dealt with in her native Brazil? Might be a very different story!


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    #89
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Bill her the cost of the Garda investigation and put her on the SIS EU wide database until she coughs up.


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