New jockeys for godolphin

krustydoyle

James Doyle will join Saeed Bin Suroor as first jockey and William Buick will be first rider for Charlie Appleby

Interesting move for both

Harry Angstrom

krustydoyle wrote: »

James Doyle will join Saeed Bin Suroor as first jockey and William Buick will be first rider for Charlie Appleby

Interesting move for both

Strange, but I suppose that with Prince Khalid starting to cut back, Doyle is thinking ahead. Buick doesn't have much to lose as he'll probably still get plenty of rides for Gosden.

Still, the Godawful operation gets worse as the years go by. Serves Sheikh Mohammed right for boycotting Coolmore stallions.

Black_Ninja

Seen a comment on Facebook which seems to be a lot of peoples view

I hope both enjoy the all weather handicaps at Kempton instead of group 1's. Be interesting to see who replaces both.

Andalucia

its two new trainers they need and a new bloodstock adviser, I could do a better job than Ferguson, but whatever about the foals/yearlings be buys, the number of high profile purchases they have made only to never to be heard of again is shocking
no wonder Bolger kept any few he sold them - if they went across to Newmarket, they would fall into the big blue hole

DylanAFC

Will Doyle and Buick be number ones in Dubai as well or are De Sousa and Barzelona still around?

FIVE2_THREE

They can appoint Jesus Christ as lead jockey and even he wouldn't be able to solve the calamitous puzzle that is Godolphin. the stock they have is not up to par and Saeed couldn't train a fish to swim let alone a horse to run. everything that Godolphin touches tarnishes. they forced Bolger to run Dawn Approach in the Derby and that was God awful. they forced Slade Powers team to run in Australia also. Godolphin is live living proof that you can have all the money and it doesn't mean a thing if you're still a fool.

jimjamcos

Just cannot und€r$tand wh¥ Do¥le left a proper Grp1 operation for them..

paddyisreal

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

They can appoint Jesus Christ as lead jockey and even he wouldn't be able to solve the calamitous puzzle that is Godolphin. the stock they have is not up to par and Saeed couldn't train a fish to swim let alone a horse to run. everything that Godolphin touches tarnishes. they forced Bolger to run Dawn Approach in the Derby and that was God awful. they forced Slade Powers team to run in Australia also. Godolphin is live living proof that you can have all the money and it doesn't mean a thing if you're still a fool.

Winning three arcs is quiet an achievement for a fella who cant train....as i said before godolphin concentrate in there own racing in dubai. Prime example is ihtimal who was ran in to the ground in dubai before running in the English guineas and oaks.

nobody told me

paddyisreal wrote: »

Winning three arcs is quiet an achievement for a fella who cant train....as i said before godolphin concentrate in there own racing in dubai. Prime example is ihtimal who was ran in to the ground in dubai before running in the English guineas and oaks.

You honestly think saeed is a good horse trainer with the horses he gets?
Buick must have lost his mind to take this job, either that or they offered him insane money that he couldn't turn down.

paddyisreal

nobody told me wrote: »

You honestly think saeed is a good horse trainer with the horses he gets?
Buick must have lost his mind to take this job, either that or they offered him insane money that he couldn't turn down.

I think he was a good trainer but godolphin main focus is on dubai now and there own racing which is the main reason why they aint that competitive in europe any more. Since the festival was set up there power in europe has wained.

paddyisreal

nobody told me wrote: »

You honestly think saeed is a good horse trainer with the horses he gets?
Buick must have lost his mind to take this job, either that or they offered him insane money that he couldn't turn down.

I think he was a good trainer but godolphin main focus is on dubai now and there own racing which is the main reason why they aint that competitive in europe any more. Since the festival was set up there power in europe has wained.

Gregk961

Would do the same in Doyle's position, I would imagine he is on a hefty retainer and will still pick up plenty of good rides elsewhere.

Harry Angstrom

I can't believe that Godawful are just ignoring Europe for the sake of success in Dubai. If Sheikh Mohammed wants the success that he used to enjoy, then he should scrap the European Godolphin outfit and send his horses to proper trainers such as Stoute, Gosden and Varian, and he's got to start using the Coolmore stallions again. He's too proud and stubborn, but I doubt that anybody close to him is going to say that.......

FIVE2_THREE

paddyisreal wrote: »

Winning three arcs is quiet an achievement for a fella who cant train....as i said before godolphin concentrate in there own racing in dubai. Prime example is ihtimal who was ran in to the ground in dubai before running in the English guineas and oaks.

Your buddy Saeed hasn't won a G1 in Europe in 2 YEARS. Godolphin spent 22 million pounds on horses in that time frame. for the stock that he gets he has shown that he isn't capable. and don't give us that crap about them focusing on Dubai. if that were the case they wouldn't be expanding in Australia and still have 130 horses in Newmarket and 64 in France.

FIVE2_THREE

Sheikh Mohammed’s Godolphin racing and bloodstock operation, which has yet to record a Group One winner in Europe this season, announced on Thursday that it had been forced to “let a relatively small number of yard staff go” following the closure of its Highfields Stable on Newmarket’s Bury Road.

The news that Godolphin has laid off staff will cause concern in Newmarket, where Sheikh Mohammed’s extensive racing and breeding interests are the biggest employer and underpin the local economy. In a statement, Hugh Anderson, Godolphin’s managing director, said: “Godolphin today moved the horses out of one of our smaller yards in Newmarket, Highfields.

“Those horses have been distributed around other Godolphin or Darley training yards in the town and, as a result, a number of staff have also been redeployed within the company here or in Dubai. With fewer horses to train, there has unfortunately been a need to let a relatively small number of yard staff go.”

Anderson would not confirm how many Godolphin staff have lost their jobs, but later added that there will “definitely not” be any significant reduction in the number of horses Godolphin has in training. Highfields, a Grade II Listed yard, is believed to have boxes for at least 30 horses. Speculation in Newmarket on Thursday evening suggested that in the region of 20 jobs may have been lost after its closure.

Highfields is one among a number of smaller stabling facilities in Newmarket which are owned by Sheikh Mohammed, in addition to Godolphin’s two main training yards, run by Saeed bin Suroor and Charlie Appleby. Both trainers are believed to have between 150 and 200 horses in training and employ several hundred staff between them.

Given the size of Godolphin’s string in Newmarket and the scale of Sheikh Mohammed’s investment in the sport, the operation’s results in 2014 have been largely disappointing.

Suroor saddled African Story to win the Dubai World Cup, the world’s richest race, in March, but Godolphin’s horses have yet to win a Group One in Europe. The operation’s only Group Two successes this summer, meanwhile, were both recorded by Suroor’s veteran Cavalryman, an eight-year-old. Appleby, who took over from the disgraced Mahmood al-Zarooni after the Godolphin doping scandal in spring 2013, has recorded only one European Group-race success this year, in a Group Three event at Epsom in June.

Riding arrangements at Godolphin’s main yards have also been in a state of flux, with Kieren Fallon replacing Silvestre de Sousa as Suroor’s main rider in the spring, and Appleby adopting a policy of using the best rider available.

The closure of Highfields Stable will inevitably prompt speculation in Newmarket that further changes to the Godolphin operation are imminent. The policy adopted at its main yards of separating the jobs of work-riders and grooms is thought to be under review, while Appleby is believed to be in the process of recruiting a new assistant.

Bangor racecourse will earn a footnote in the sport’s history books when it becomes the first British track to stage a card of “schooling” races. Both hurdle events and bumpers will feature on the card on 21 October, giving young horses a chance to experience the racing environment in contests staged on Bangor’s inner course.

“We are in continuous dialogue with owners and trainers and the overwhelming majority have asked if we would consider holding events of this type,” Andrew Morris, Bangor’s clerk of the course, said.

“Now we have introduced the first schooling meeting to Bangor this October, we hope they will grow to become regular occurrences in the calendar.”

The National Trainers’ Federation has launched an online petition urging Newcastle racecourse to reconsider its decision to replace its Flat turf track with an all-weather surface.

“There is a need for an all-weather track in the north and we don’t underestimate the requirements of our members in the north,” Rupert Arnold, the NTF’s chief executive, said. “However, a decision to convert Newcastle’s valued turf course has major long-term consequences for the sport and, as an alternative venue for a northern AWT is still a possibility, the decision must not be rushed.”
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/aug/28/godolphin-closes-stable-newmarket-staff-redundant

nuckeythompson

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

They can appoint Jesus Christ as lead jockey and even he wouldn't be able to solve the calamitous puzzle that is Godolphin. the stock they have is not up to par and Saeed couldn't train a fish to swim let alone a horse to run. everything that Godolphin touches tarnishes. they forced Bolger to run Dawn Approach in the Derby and that was God awful. they forced Slade Powers team to run in Australia also. Godolphin is live living proof that you can have all the money and it doesn't mean a thing if you're still a fool.

What did they do to force Slade Powers team to force the run in Australia?
tks

posturingpat

nuckeythompson wrote: »

What did they do to force Slade Powers team to force the run in Australia?
tks

Godolphin/Darley bought him last year for stud purposes i believe but allowed him to remain running for the season for Eddie in the Powers colours. Not certain on this though. It could be a share either.

Gringo180

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Your buddy Saeed hasn't won a G1 in Europe in 2 YEARS.

To be fair to the man I would say its more to do with the lack of quality horses he has than his ability to train them.

FIVE2_THREE

Gringo180 wrote: »

To be fair to the man I would say its more to do with the lack of quality horses he has than his ability to train them.

Have to disagree. When AOB is wining everything left and right I see the haters come out from everywhere. but Saeed gets a pass for failing with his blue blooded horses ? if AOB put p such dismal numbers the people here would be calling for his head. but the same doesn't apply For Saeed ?

Gringo180

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Have to disagree. When AOB is wining everything left and right I see the haters come out from everywhere. but Saeed gets a pass for failing with his blue blooded horses ? if AOB put p such dismal numbers the people here would be calling for his head. but the same doesn't apply For Saeed ?

Just because there blue blooded horses doesn't mean there anywhere near top animals, its not his fault he is getting absolute hounds, sure his best horse in training is Cavalryman who is 8 years old and slow as a boat. The man can train a horse no doubt about it, he trained one of the best race horses of all time to 9 wins from 10 starts and multiple Group 1's.

nuckeythompson

AOB is winning left right and centre due to the quality of the horses he has. Like I said before AOB has the easiest training job in the country due to the quality of firepower.

Saeed can train horses and he has proved that when he had decent horses available to him,

FIVE2_THREE

Gringo180 wrote: »

Just because there blue blooded horses doesn't mean there anywhere near top animals, its not his fault he is getting absolute hounds, sure his best horse in training is Cavalryman who is 8 years old and slow as a boat. The man can train a horse no doubt about it, he trained one of the best race horses of all time to 9 wins from 10 starts and multiple Group 1's.

That was 15 years ago. this is a what have you done for me lately sport. as I said, if AOB had the same record the haters would be casting him to the gallows
and you know it.

Gringo180

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

That was 15 years ago. this is a what have you done for me lately sport. as I said, if AOB had the same record the haters would be casting him to the gallows
and you know it.

There is no comparison to the 2, AOB has horses Bin Suroor would only dream of having.

FIVE2_THREE

nuckeythompson wrote: »

AOB is winning left right and centre due to the quality of the horses he has. Like I said before AOB has the easiest training job in the country due to the quality of firepower.

Saeed can train horses and he has proved that when he had decent horses available to him,

Easiest ? LOL come on now, you think it's easy to be in the seat that he holds ?
firepower means nothing if you don't deploy it properly. before AOB got to Coolmore he was a solid jumps trainer and amateur jockey. before Saeed got to Godolphin he was a Police officer. forgive me If I take AOB in the horsemanship category.

nuckeythompson

A fine example is Tom Hogan, not the worlds greatest trainer but he got lucky with one horse GLB. AOB got lucky with a ****load of good horses.
You cannot compare the two trainers

Gringo180

nuckeythompson wrote: »

Saeed can train horses and he has proved that when he had decent horses available to him,

No doubt about the mans quality. He brought Farrh back from 18 months off and another year after that to win 2 Group 1s and place in another 5. A master class in horsemanship that is.

FIVE2_THREE

Gringo180 wrote: »

There is no comparison to the 2, AOB has horses Bin Suroor would only dream of having.

Saeed trains for the richest owner in the history of the sport. last I looked Godolphins list of sires is nothing to sneeze at. as I said if you deploy firepower improperly you'll get poor results.

nuckeythompson

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Easiest ? LOL come on now, you think it's easy to be in the seat that he holds ?
firepower means nothing if you don't deploy it properly. before AOB got to Coolmore he was a solid jumps trainer and amateur jockey. before Saeed got to Godolphin he was a Police officer. forgive me If I take AOB in the horsemanship category.

Yeah I stand by that, he has pressure I know to keep winning G1. This man does not wake up worrying how he pays he staff or the other things that every other trainer in Ireland worries about. He knows every year he has a number of G1 winners in his arsenal .
His firepower are bred to win and if you give those sort of horses to an average/good trainer he will win G1s. Ask anyone who trains racehorses and they will tell you yeah he has the easiest training job in Ireland.

FIVE2_THREE

nuckeythompson wrote: »

A fine example is Tom Hogan, not the worlds greatest trainer but he got lucky with one horse GLB. AOB got lucky with a ****load of good horses.
You cannot compare the two trainers

Oh ok he "Got lucky" you say ? racing has nothing to do with luck and everything to do with skill and ability. possessing the proper rational to place horses properly based on their skill set. if horse racing were about luck the Green Monkey would have won 10 G1's instead of being a 16 million dollar dud

FIVE2_THREE

nuckeythompson wrote: »

Yeah I stand by that, he has pressure I know to keep winning G1. This man does not wake up worrying how he pays he staff or the other things that every other trainer in Ireland worries about. He knows every year he has a number of G1 winners in his arsenal .
His firepower are bred to win and if you give those sort of horses to an average/good trainer he will win G1s. Ask anyone who trains racehorses and they will tell you yeah he has the easiest training job in Ireland.

Nor does Saeed have those worries. G1 races are not given. go look back on the start of the past two seasons. AOB's horses were in a bit of a rut and this place was about to explode with worry. oh the stuff they said

nuckeythompson

NO luck involved? total bull, besides skill and agility everyone knows you need some luck.

Id say even you could train GLB to acheive what he did, my point is that similar to a jockey a trainer should be assessed on what he is training or riding.
Your point is he cannot train ( typical grandstand jockey/trainer attitude ) where as I have seen results to suggest he can, I also think AOB is a betyter trainer than him for sure but your trying to say he cannot train. Would he still have a job if he could not?

Gringo180

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Saeed trains for the richest owner in the history of the sport. last I looked Godolphins list of sires is nothing to sneeze at. as I said if you deploy firepower improperly you'll get poor results.

Look back at the last few years of the fire power he has had compared to O Brien. He has won Group one's with horses such as Colour Vision, Prince Bishop, Hunters Light, Campanologist, Rio De Le Plata etc, whereas AOB has had the likes of Australia, St Nic Abbey, Excelebration, So You Think etc.

nuckeythompson

while good [points for both sides of the arguement you cant say that he cannot train. Thats a stupid comment

FIVE2_THREE

Gringo180 wrote: »

Look back at the last few years of the fire power he has had compared to O Brien. He has won Group one's with horses such as Colour Vision, Prince Bishop, Hunters Light, Campanologist, Rio De Le Plata etc, whereas AOB has had the likes of Australia, St Nic Abbey, Excelebration, So You Think etc.

Coolmore are not breeders. every horse they have had was purchased at public sale. Godolphin on the other hand breeds about 40 % of their own horses. by logic they have the advantage. but once again as I said before horses mean nothing if you don't deploy them properly. a breeder can breed what he wants while people who buy at the sales buy what others breed.

FIVE2_THREE

nuckeythompson wrote: »

while good [points for both sides of the arguement you cant say that he cannot train. Thats a stupid comment

In Dubai he is a super trainer for some reason. but the other 8 months of the year he is below average. BELOW AVERAGE. the numbers are there for a reason. He hasn't won a G1 in Europe in 2 years, hasn't won a G2 in Europe in a year.

nuckeythompson

in Dubai he is a good trainer because in most cases they can select they opposition to be fair to your arguement. but previous to the above dates he has an impresive record so therefore i say the man can train, no question

DylanAFC

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

In Dubai he is a super trainer for some reason. but the other 8 moths of the year he is below average. BELOW AVERAGE. the numbers are there for a reason. He hasn't won a G1 in Europe in 2 years, hasn't won a G2 in Europe in a year.

I think he is a decent trainer but this is disgraceful with all Saeed has at his disposal.

nuckeythompson

also take into consideration that saeed is someone who is not allowed to make serious training decisions as his boss is one ( a control freak) who will dicatate what to do with horses and where to run them, Saeed should not be blamed on some poor decision making

FIVE2_THREE

nuckeythompson wrote: »

in Dubai he is a good trainer because in most cases they can select they opposition to be fair to your arguement. but previous to the above dates he has an impresive record so therefore i say the man can train, no question

In a sport that is highly dependent upon results I can not agree with your assessment. people can go back and recall what he did 15 years ago or 10 years ago but the fact still remains what has he done lately ?

nuckeythompson

not alot, but my arguement is that he can train, yours is that he cannont train. I base what he has not done down to the fact of lack of firepower and the constraints he works under

FIVE2_THREE

nuckeythompson wrote: »

also take into consideration that saeed is someone who is not allowed to make serious training decisions as his boss is one ( a control freak) who will dicatate what to do with horses and where to run them, Saeed should not be blamed on some poor decision making

Have you ever met John Magnier ? there is a reason why AOB always says "I'll talk to the lads and decide where we go next" Most powerful men are very domineering. it just so happens that Magnier understands how to deploy his ammunition.

FIVE2_THREE

nuckeythompson wrote: »

not alot, but my arguement is that he can train, yours is that he cannont train. I base what he has not done down to the fact of lack of firepower and the constraints he works under

Your argument is based on what he did. Mine is based on what he's currently doing. I'm looking forward you're looking back.

nuckeythompson

agree with John Magner ( i worked in ballydoyle) statement but he knows what he is talking about compared to sheikh mo.


you have moved the goal posts on your arguement , you have stated he cannot train my arguement is he can train.

pointless debate with you - im off to give the mrs a hump
cya

FIVE2_THREE

nuckeythompson wrote: »

agree with John Magner ( i worked in ballydoyle) statement but he knows what he is talking about compared to sheikh mo.


you have moved the goal posts on your arguement , you have stated he cannot train my arguement is he can train.

pointless debate with you - im off to give the mrs a hump
cya

We will have to agree to disagree. but at the end of next season when he under performs yet again. you will see why I've said the things I have.

FIVE2_THREE

nuckeythompson wrote: »

NO luck involved? total bull, besides skill and agility everyone knows you need some luck.

Id say even you could train GLB to acheive what he did, my point is that similar to a jockey a trainer should be assessed on what he is training or riding.
Your point is he cannot train ( typical grandstand jockey/trainer attitude ) where as I have seen results to suggest he can, I also think AOB is a betyter trainer than him for sure but your trying to say he cannot train. Would he still have a job if he could not?

Would you still allow him to train for you if you've spent 20 million pounds on horses in the last two years to only go win less in G1 races ?

Gringo180

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Would you still allow him to train for you if you've spent 20 million pounds on horses in the last two years to only go win less in G1 races ?

Money doesn't necessarily mean that you will get good horses, Coolmore paid 16 million for a horse that never even won a race.

Pinesky

I see Godolphin have purchased the Dubawi half brother to Australia .
Must have cost a fortune.
Oujia Board just keeps giving .

Peintre Celebre

Anyone thinking Aidan has the easiest training job in Ireland is a foolish man. There probably will never be a trainer under as much pressure as him. If he had 5 gr.1 winners in a season it would be considered disappointing. Owners except Guineas, Derbies and 2 year old gr.1 winners, he is the only trainer in the UK or IRL where it is expected as opposed to wished for. Godolphin clearly don't expect it despite all of their wealth given their horrendous results.


The fact is the results do not lie. How many outstanding looking prospects have gone to Godolphin and never done a thing? The amount of them you see it happen to cannot be a coincidence. Something very wrong in their operation

FIVE2_THREE

Gringo180 wrote: »

Money doesn't necessarily mean that you will get good horses, Coolmore paid 16 million for a horse that never even won a race.

True it doesn't. BUT Godolphn has been buying horses from every sire possible in the past 2 years and all of them have failed. Sea the stars,War front, Mdo,Dubawi, Lonhro and many others. its impossible for every horse they buy to be god awaful

FIVE2_THREE

Pinesky wrote: »

I see Godolphin have purchased the Dubawi half brother to Australia .
Must have cost a fortune.
Oujia Board just keeps giving .

Lord Darby decided to make the sale privet because he knew Coolmore wouldn't be interested

paddyisreal

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Lord Darby decided to make the sale privet because he knew Coolmore wouldn't be interested

How do you know they would not be interested... they have bought exceed and excel , bernardini colts etc in private sales over the last few years.