weights training

nathanw0525

I am 22 years of age i am 5 foot 10 in height and 7.5 stone which i am aware is underweight. On top of trying to eat a lot more food high in carbs i have purchased dumbells and a weights bench so i can try to build muscle to help me gain weight so that i can look and feel better. The probem is i have no idea about weights training or how much i should be lifting or when to increase my weights. I want to focus on my upper body ie biceps,triceps,chest,shoulders,back and abs but i have no idea where to start or how many sets or reps i need to do or when to rest or how long to work out. Really i want to figure out a workout routine that will cover all of the upperbody and gain muscle as quickly as possible without killing myself. Taking into consideration my age height and weight can anyone help me ??

shutup

I've been exactly where you are now.
Is joining a gym an option? You will get help from the employees there.
The problem with following a blueprint while at home on your own is you still won't know what to do or if you are doing it properly.
I was lucky that I had a gym rat friend who got me started. Would you know anyone like that, that could help?

nathanw0525

I understand that doing it at home you still wont really know if you are doing things rite or not but to be honest going to the gym is not an option for me as i would feel very paranoid and self conscious working out as i am underweight and i dont really have any gym rat friends plus i have already spent a lot of money to buy the equipment myself for working at home. I have looked online at how to do correct lifts and everything but still i dont want to be working out if im doing everything wrong and wasting my own time. The gym would be a option down the line once i put on a bit of weight i would have no problem in going but not now. A gym rat friend would be good but unfortunatly all my friends are lazy

MightyMandarin

nathanw0525 wrote: »

I understand that doing it at home you still wont really know if you are doing things rite or not but to be honest going to the gym is not an option for me as i would feel very paranoid and self conscious working out as i am underweight and i dont really have any gym rat friends plus i have already spent a lot of money to buy the equipment myself for working at home. I have looked online at how to do correct lifts and everything but still i dont want to be working out if im doing everything wrong and wasting my own time. The gym would be a option down the line once i put on a bit of weight i would have no problem in going but not now. A gym rat friend would be good but unfortunatly all my friends are lazy

Trust me when I say that nobody will give a f*ck what you look like when you're in the gym. We all start somewhere, usually skinny, skinny fat or just fat, and as long as you don't look like you're going to seriously injure yourself on movements, people won't take any notice of you. You'll also find that usually the huge guys are some of the nicest people you can talk to.

The best thing for you to do right now is find the closest gym that has a decent free weights area, get an instructor/trainer to show you proper form for each movement, get on a decent program (Starting Strength is one of the best imo) and fix up your diet. Even if you don't join a gym, pay in a few times to get your form right then starting working out at home, although in my experience, you can't beat a gym atmosphere.

nathanw0525

I agree with you when you say the biggest guys can be really nice i have heard that a few times from people. There is quite a few gyms in my area which are supposed to be extremely good but i dont think i would have the confidence to go just yet even though i might like it i would prefer to feel a bit more confident before i go into a gym as i said before i would be very very paranoid and that would affect me working properly in the gym its something i need to work on but for now i really just want to get myself up and running and then when i feel better and look better i will go to a gym no problem...maybie i should try harder to find a gym rat friend then maybie they can show me correct form and i can start working at home

MightyMandarin

nathanw0525 wrote: »

I agree with you when you say the biggest guys can be really nice i have heard that a few times from people. There is quite a few gyms in my area which are supposed to be extremely good but i dont think i would have the confidence to go just yet even though i might like it i would prefer to feel a bit more confident before i go into a gym as i said before i would be very very paranoid and that would affect me working properly in the gym its something i need to work on but for now i really just want to get myself up and running and then when i feel better and look better i will go to a gym no problem...maybie i should try harder to find a gym rat friend then maybie they can show me correct form and i can start working at home

No offence to you or anything, but if obese people can muster enough confidence just to go to the gym, so could you. If you really have bad anxiety, that's fine with me, but I don't think you should be paranoid at all, it's a gym, it's not like you're parading your body in front of a live audience, and if it feels like it, wear a hoodie and tracksuit, I did it myself when I started out. A 'gym rat' friend is useful, but not a necessity, I always prefer working out alone as it stops me from chatting all the time. You never know though, you could befriend somebody down there and then start working out with each other.

nathanw0525

Point taken you are right. I have no reason to be afraid but maybie i should just go for it and give it a chance and if it doesnt work out at least i tried cheers mate

Alf Veedersane

nathanw0525 wrote: »

Point taken you are right. I have no reason to be afraid but maybie i should just go for it and give it a chance and if it doesnt work out at least i tried cheers mate

You have nothing to worry about fella. Give it a go and you'll be surprised at what you learn and the confidence you get. I say that as someone who got both from not an entirely dissimilar starting point

nathanw0525

Cheers mate

shutup

What are your local gyms? ( if you don't mind me asking )

nathanw0525

All gyms in swords area

Killgore Trout

Don't neglect the legs, it's a noob mistake - Friends don't let friends skip leg day

Check out the guys and girls who post pictures, videos and training logs of themselves here; you won't find many that skip leg days.

Get some coaching. You'll get better value out of your weights at home, and avoid getting injured, or simply wasting time.

Check out the basics sticky at the top of Health & Fitness

nathanw0525

Ok i will have to work on legs too cheers pal

deadlybuzzman

I know exact how you feel. Back in the day I was really really underweight and felt very self conscious going into a gym. I remember struggling to even lift some of the dumbells off the rack.
Now, while I'm nothing special I've gone from something like a 30 kg bench to 110kg and a 40 ish kg deadlift to 200 kg.
And now being on the other side of the fence I only have admiration for anyone that decides to get off their arse and make a change

nathanw0525

Well im looking to make a serious change thats for sure ! Over the last year every single day someone calls me skinny or gives me abuse about my weight and i always felt i would rather be skinny than overweight but no matter what you look like people will always look to put you down and its because of that im terrified of going to a gym. I know i cant tar everyone with the same brush but thats how i feel and now its time to change !! I have quit smokin and i am fully commited to changing how i look which is why i started dis thread...i have bough the equipment but now i need to know what to do next ! I dont want to be called skinny anymore so dis is it ! And when i am built like a brick no one can say nothing anymore ! But i need to know what to do ???

MightyMandarin

nathanw0525 wrote: »

Well im looking to make a serious change thats for sure ! Over the last year every single day someone calls me skinny or gives me abuse about my weight and i always felt i would rather be skinny than overweight but no matter what you look like people will always look to put you down and its because of that im terrified of going to a gym. I know i cant tar everyone with the same brush but thats how i feel and now its time to change !! I have quit smokin and i am fully commited to changing how i look which is why i started dis thread...i have bough the equipment but now i need to know what to do next ! I dont want to be called skinny anymore so dis is it ! And when i am built like a brick no one can say nothing anymore ! But i need to know what to do ???

Eat until it hurts..........and then have dessert.

nathanw0525

Haha shouldnt be a problem i already do that i love my food !

Mellor

nathanw0525 wrote: »

Haha shouldnt be a problem i already do that i love my food !

I'm sure you really enjoy your food. But if you are currently 7.5 stone then you'll need to eat a lot more.
All the weight lifting in the world won't add mass if you aren't eating enough.

nathanw0525

I already eat a massive amount of food. In order for me to gain 2lb per week i should be eating close to 3000 calories a day according to my bmi and i eat 3000 a day easily but i dont gain the weight...my house mate weighs close to 14 stone and everyday i easily eat more than him yet he gains weight and i cannot gain anything...at this point i am beggining to think there is something wrong with my stomach or digestive system which i am planning on gettin checked as soon as i can get a medical card because im sure there is a issue somewhere..again i wont know for sure until i see a doctor or specialist...maybie you are right maybie im not eating enough but until i see a doctor we wont know for sure...hopefully you are right because that would mean i have no health issues and then i can eat more than i eat now which should help me gain weight.

DoYouEvenLift

About the point of not wanting to go to the gym because you're not a decent weight/big enough: that would be beneficial for you if anything since you don't know what you're doing because lots of people have been in your shoes and will give you tips and advice, even if just in passing, and will encourage you to keep it up. Especially if they see you're working hard and eating right to experience your noon gains since it'll show you're serious about it unlike people who try and give up all the time. Basically you'd almost be getting personal training for free. The number of people who would actually look down on someone for not being in shape are definitely far fewer than people who are genuine and will either take no notice, since most people go to the gym to get on with their own workouts and not spend time looking around at other people, or will be eager to help you learn and tell you any mistakes you might be making.


Would advise sticking to compound lifts for a few weeks/months and lifting as heavy as you can to get your strength up once you've got your form down and then adding in isolation lifts with whatever kind of split (routine) you decide to go with. Gj on trying to get the nutrition sorted early on, if someone went from having never lifted with poor diet to lifting heavy and having perfect diet, especially in their late teens and early 20s, they could have great noob gains

nathanw0525 wrote: »

I already eat a massive amount of food. In order for me to gain 2lb per week i should be eating close to 3000 calories a day according to my bmi and i eat 3000 a day easily but i dont gain the weight...my house mate weighs close to 14 stone and everyday i easily eat more than him yet he gains weight and i cannot gain anything...at this point i am beggining to think there is something wrong with my stomach or digestive system which i am planning on gettin checked as soon as i can get a medical card because im sure there is a issue somewhere..again i wont know for sure until i see a doctor or specialist...maybie you are right maybie im not eating enough but until i see a doctor we wont know for sure...hopefully you are right because that would mean i have no health issues and then i can eat more than i eat now which should help me gain weight.

Is the ~3,000 cals a 500 cal surplus? And have you counted all the calories and weighed all your food out for your typical day to make sure it actually is how much you need?

thegreatiam

nathanw0525 wrote: »

I already eat a massive amount of food. In order for me to gain 2lb per week i should be eating close to 3000 calories a day according to my bmi and i eat 3000 a day easily but i dont gain the weight...my house mate weighs close to 14 stone and everyday i easily eat more than him yet he gains weight and i cannot gain anything...at this point i am beggining to think there is something wrong with my stomach or digestive system which i am planning on gettin checked as soon as i can get a medical card because im sure there is a issue somewhere..again i wont know for sure until i see a doctor or specialist...maybie you are right maybie im not eating enough but until i see a doctor we wont know for sure...hopefully you are right because that would mean i have no health issues and then i can eat more than i eat now which should help me gain weight.

there is probably something wrong, but its probably not your digestive system. youre likely massively overestimating your calorie intake.

keep track of what you eat in a day and find out.

Mellor

nathanw0525 wrote: »

I already eat a massive amount of food. In order for me to gain 2lb per week i should be eating close to 3000 calories a day according to my bmi and i eat 3000 a day easily but i dont gain the weight.

Whats a typical days eating for you.
Foods and quantities.

deadlybuzzman

An alternative to counting calories is to just ask youself every day "Have I eaten more today than I would've eaten any day in the previous week?" If the answer is anything but a definite yes then go eat and the more meat the better.
You will notice a small fat gain but as you get bigger the muscle will be more noticable than the fat so dont worry about it. Being fat phobic can be a big barrier to growing.
As regards what to do trainingwise I'd have to say the gym is far superior to home weights but you can still use those for things like bicep curls.
Google Starting Strength and basically follow that. Its a very straightforward programme that will give you a great foundation

Alf Veedersane

I do think it would be useful for the OP to use MFP for a week, for examp[le, just to see what's in what he's getting on board. At least then he's a decent idea of the starting point in terms of how much more he needs to start eating

DoYouEvenLift

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

An alternative to counting calories is to just ask youself every day "Have I eaten more today than I would've eaten any day in the previous week?" If the answer is anything but a definite yes then go eat and the more meat the better.
You will notice a small fat gain but as you get bigger the muscle will be more noticable than the fat so dont worry about it. Being fat phobic can be a big barrier to growing.
As regards what to do trainingwise I'd have to say the gym is far superior to home weights but you can still use those for things like bicep curls.
Google Starting Strength and basically follow that. Its a very straightforward programme that will give you a great foundation

Counting calories would be the most accurate and you don't even have to do it all the time, after the first week or two you just get used to the amount of foods you're eating and once you know you're still getting enough cals you don't even need to weigh the food since you've a real sense for how much you've used everyday before. Lots of people get their diets down to an absolute tee and stick to it so well they don't even need to think about how much they're making, just becomes a second nature like an experienced chef who prepares the same meals in a restaurant daily

deadlybuzzman

Fair point. I knew a guy that used to complain about eating loads but not getting bigger so I asked him what he had eaten that day. What he listed was basically a few snacks and once every few days he might have a reasonably sized dinner.
When he actually had to think about it out loud he realised where he had been going wrong

Mr. CooL ICE

When I started weights, I was a somewhat skinny ex-marathon runner. I thought I had my diet down to a tee (including 2x dinners per day with meat and a ton of veg) but when I counted the actual calories, it was barely around the 2,000 mark when I just assumed it was at least 2,500. Was quite an eye opener.

DoYouEvenLift

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

Fair point. I knew a guy that used to complain about eating loads but not getting bigger so I asked him what he had eaten that day. What he listed was basically a few snacks and once every few days he might have a reasonably sized dinner.
When he actually had to think about it out loud he realised where he had been going wrong

Yeah. Nothing more annoying than people who claim they eat lots of food, enough to gain weight steadily, but actually aren't eating enough. Even worse if they only do it for a few days and then claim this. Pretty simple really, if someone eats at a caloric surplus consistently they WILL gain weight.

deadlybuzzman

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Yeah. Nothing more annoying than people who claim they eat lots of food, enough to gain weight steadily, but actually aren't eating enough. Even worse if they only do it for a few days and then claim this. Pretty simple really, if someone eats at a caloric surplus consistently they WILL gain weight.

It's an honest mistake that they make and I believe it comes alot of times from what you grow up with and what your expectations of what alot of food is.
Brandon Lilly said on his podcast from Dublin that when he looked around at breakfast in his hotel the Americans were eating twice what the Europeans were and that him and Wesley Smith were eating twice what the other Americans were eating.
The statement "I eat loads" is completely relative.

Meath Centre Forward

Some people have a fast metabolism. I doubt there's anything wrong. You're natural build is just a skinny one - nothing wrong with that. If you do manage to make a success of the weights side of things, the muscle will come out in you straight away. For example your abs will be well defined day one - a fat person does not have that luxury.

I would agree with other posters. You need a personal trainer to get you started. 6 - 8 1 hour sessions and you'll have learned the do's and don't's of all the compound lifts. If I was in your shoes, I would check out all the local gyms and inquire about getting started. All of the gym staff I've ever encountered are always very eager to help. Whichever one you feel most confident will get the best of you, go with that one. And stay committed and don't lose heart at any stage. You have to fail to improve so stick at it even if it feels uncomfortable or a lost cause, it's not. Stick at it.

By the way you should not be afraid of looking out of place in a gym. The one where I'm a member has people starting off new everyday under the tutelage of the staff and some of the improvements many of them make is inspiring to say the least. So there you go, if you make a good fist of it yourself, chances are you you'll inspire those around you.

However you should not underestimate the work involved. You will not make improvements without first rolling up your sleeves and gritting your teeth. The tone of first post has a hint of an looking for an easy solution about it. You will need to be fully committed and personally if I was you I would forget about the weight figure and just enjoy the experience of learning something new. Muscle and weight will come in time. If you're too focused on gaining weight, you're inclined to pack it in early in. It will come, that's a guarantee, but not immediately.

As regards the calories I would wonder what kind of foods your eating. If it's rubbish it's a waste of time. Start focusing on porridge, chicken, trout, salmon, eggs and nuts to start with, they would be key parts of an athlete's diet. A good big dinner every day consisting of a meat, a few spuds and some veg would do you no harm either I don't think. Pack the food into you in the morning too. Porridge preferably. Avoid chocolate, fizzy drinks, crisps and fries at all costs. I know it's easier said than done but if you really want to make improvement then a zero tolerance approach to those foods is what's required. Unfortunate but that's the harsh reality.

Best of luck.

Meath Centre Forward

Some people have a fast metabolism. I doubt there's anything wrong. You're natural build is just a skinny one - nothing wrong with that. If you do manage to make a success of the weights side of things, the muscle will come out in you straight away. For example your abs will be well defined day one - a fat person does not have that luxury.

I would agree with other posters. You need a personal trainer to get you started. 6 - 8 1 hour sessions and you'll have learned the do's and don't's of all the compound lifts. If I was in your shoes, I would check out all the local gyms and inquire about getting started. All of the gym staff I've ever encountered are always very eager to help. Whichever one you feel most confident will get the best of you, go with that one. And stay committed and don't lose heart at any stage. You have to fail to improve so stick at it even if it feels uncomfortable or a lost cause, it's not. Stick at it.

By the way you should not be afraid of looking out of place in a gym. The one where I'm a member has people starting off new everyday under the tutelage of the staff and some of the improvements many of them make is inspiring to say the least. So there you go, if you make a good fist of it yourself, chances are you you'll inspire those around you.

However you should not underestimate the work involved. You will not make improvements without first rolling up your sleeves and gritting your teeth. The tone of first post has a hint of an looking for an easy solution about it. You will need to be fully committed and personally if I was you I would forget about the weight figure and just enjoy the experience of learning something new. Muscle and weight will come in time. If you're too focused on gaining weight, you're inclined to pack it in early in. It will come, that's a guarantee, but not immediately.

As regards the calories I would wonder what kind of foods your eating. If it's rubbish it's a waste of time. Start focusing on porridge, chicken, trout, salmon, eggs and nuts to start with, they would be key parts of an athlete's diet. A good big dinner every day consisting of a meat, a few spuds and some veg would do you no harm either I don't think. Pack the food into you in the morning too. Porridge preferably. Avoid chocolate, fizzy drinks, crisps and fries at all costs. I know it's easier said than done but if you really want to make improvement then a zero tolerance approach to those foods is what's required. Unfortunate but that's the harsh reality.

My advice is far from that of a professional but it's based on my experiences. I came from somewhere similar to you. In time you could have your own experience to be able to talk about. The important thing is learn the basics and get the basics right day in - day out. If that means eating food you don't like and spending an hour in the gym every Tuesday and Thursday, then so be it. If you get the basics consistently and 100% of the time, you're well on the road. That applies in all aspects of life too.

Best of luck.

chopper6

Lift Light til you can Lift Right.

PartyBanners

Meath Centre Forward wrote: »

Some people have a fast metabolism. I doubt there's anything wrong. You're natural build is just a skinny one - nothing wrong with that. If you do manage to make a success of the weights side of things, the muscle will come out in you straight away. For example your abs will be well defined day one - a fat person does not have that luxury.

I would agree with other posters. You need a personal trainer to get you started. 6 - 8 1 hour sessions and you'll have learned the do's and don't's of all the compound lifts. If I was in your shoes, I would check out all the local gyms and inquire about getting started. All of the gym staff I've ever encountered are always very eager to help. Whichever one you feel most confident will get the best of you, go with that one. And stay committed and don't lose heart at any stage. You have to fail to improve so stick at it even if it feels uncomfortable or a lost cause, it's not. Stick at it.

By the way you should not be afraid of looking out of place in a gym. The one where I'm a member has people starting off new everyday under the tutelage of the staff and some of the improvements many of them make is inspiring to say the least. So there you go, if you make a good fist of it yourself, chances are you you'll inspire those around you.

However you should not underestimate the work involved. You will not make improvements without first rolling up your sleeves and gritting your teeth. The tone of first post has a hint of an looking for an easy solution about it. You will need to be fully committed and personally if I was you I would forget about the weight figure and just enjoy the experience of learning something new. Muscle and weight will come in time. If you're too focused on gaining weight, you're inclined to pack it in early in. It will come, that's a guarantee, but not immediately.

As regards the calories I would wonder what kind of foods your eating. If it's rubbish it's a waste of time. Start focusing on porridge, chicken, trout, salmon, eggs and nuts to start with, they would be key parts of an athlete's diet. A good big dinner every day consisting of a meat, a few spuds and some veg would do you no harm either I don't think. Pack the food into you in the morning too. Porridge preferably. Avoid chocolate, fizzy drinks, crisps and fries at all costs. I know it's easier said than done but if you really want to make improvement then a zero tolerance approach to those foods is what's required. Unfortunate but that's the harsh reality.

My advice is far from that of a professional but it's based on my experiences. I came from somewhere similar to you. In time you could have your own experience to be able to talk about. The important thing is learn the basics and get the basics right day in - day out. If that means eating food you don't like and spending an hour in the gym every Tuesday and Thursday, then so be it. If you get the basics consistently and 100% of the time, you're well on the road. That applies in all aspects of life too.

Best of luck.

I am hitting the gym myself with a similar problem in that I need to bulk up, so I am wondering how often I need to go a week as you reference hitting the gym Tuesday and Thursday. is this enough workout time to bulk up or would you need to go everyday??

Zillah

PartyBanners wrote: »

I am hitting the gym myself with a similar problem in that I need to bulk up, so I am wondering how often I need to go a week as you reference hitting the gym Tuesday and Thursday. is this enough workout time to bulk up or would you need to go everyday??

The people you are quoting were here two years ago so I wouldn't bank on a reply from them.

Twice a week won't be useless but it would give you quite a slow rate of development. Better to go four or five times. It's important that you do it consistently and long term - no point going five times a week if you only last two months. Whatever plan you use it has to be kept to long term (years). Don't go every day, you need rest days.

As for bulking up: if you're skinny, you need to eat more. It's that simple: you are underweight, that means you don't have enough calories in your diet. I was once a tall skinny flagpole of a person, and I thought I ate loads of food, but what I was actually doing was mixing up the occasional indulgence with the idea of eating a lot generally. I managed to pile the weight on eventually through a slow and steady gorging process, where every meal was quite a big one. Lots of protein, sugar is the one thing you shouldn't have much of.

PartyBanners

Zillah wrote: »

The people you are quoting were here two years ago so I wouldn't bank on a reply from them.

Twice a week won't be useless but it would give you quite a slow rate of development. Better to go four or five times. It's important that you do it consistently and long term - no point going five times a week if you only last two months. Whatever plan you use it has to be kept to long term (years). Don't go every day, you need rest days.

As for bulking up: if you're skinny, you need to eat more. It's that simple: you are underweight, that means you don't have enough calories in your diet. I was once a tall skinny flagpole of a person, and I thought I ate loads of food, but what I was actually doing was mixing up the occasional indulgence with the idea of eating a lot generally. I managed to pile the weight on eventually through a slow and steady gorging process, where every meal was quite a big one. Lots of protein, sugar is the one thing you shouldn't have much of.

Thanks Zillah, its looks like there is lots of hard work ahead for me but at least I get to eat a lot!!

Labarbapostiza

nathanw0525 wrote: »

I already eat a massive amount of food. In order for me to gain 2lb per week i should be eating close to 3000 calories a day according to my bmi and i eat 3000 a day easily but i dont gain the weight...my house mate weighs close to 14 stone and everyday i easily eat more than him yet he gains weight and i cannot gain anything...at this point i am beggining to think there is something wrong with my stomach or digestive system which i am planning on gettin checked as soon as i can get a medical card because im sure there is a issue somewhere..again i wont know for sure until i see a doctor or specialist...

There actually does sound like there is something wrong with you.

You need to get your blood tested. Thyroid function, blood sugar levels.

Trying to bulk up by eating carbs is not good advice. If your blood sugar is too high, things get screwy, so you neither get a change in muscle mass, and the sugar may not even be stored as fat. Type 2 diabetes is a sensitivity to sugar. The effect on some people is it makes them skinny.

Squall Leonhart

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

There actually does sound like there is something wrong with you.

You need to get your blood tested. Thyroid function, blood sugar levels.

Trying to bulk up by eating carbs is not good advice. If your blood sugar is too high, things get screwy, so you neither get a change in muscle mass, and the sugar may not even be stored as fat. Type 2 diabetes is a sensitivity to sugar. The effect on some people is it makes them skinny.

This user hasn't been online since November 2014

Labarbapostiza

Squall Leonhart wrote: »

This user hasn't been online since November 2014

Maybe they died....God rest them.

But same story applies. No one should be taking advice to overload on carbs. There is so much "exercise" and "energy" stuff out there, that's just some blend of sugar. Making your blood sugar too high is very easy. And it doesn't give you more energy, when it's too high it has the opposite effect. Most people, skinny people included are actually walking around in a permanent sugar flu, because there's just way too much carbs in the foods we eat.

rondog

not to Hi jack the thread BUT is using Sugar for energy a bad thing?

Ive read conflicting stories and im aware that constant sugar isn't great for the pancreas and subsequent releasing of insulin to lower blood sugar and that it can 'cook' the body.

I also understand that with more exercise the body becomes more insulin sensitive.My workouts require lots of explosive actions and I hear sugar is great for this as the body uses that form of energy in a highly anaerobic workout.

My question is-is sugar as a form of energy good or bad regarding causing type 2 diabetes in that constantly using sugar for workouts will over work the pancreas and cause insulin resistance?

Blacktie.

rondog wrote: »

not to Hi jack the thread BUT is using Sugar for energy a bad thing?

Ive read conflicting stories and im aware that constant sugar isn't great for the pancreas and subsequent releasing of insulin to lower blood sugar and that it can 'cook' the body.

I also understand that with more exercise the body becomes more insulin sensitive.My workouts require lots of explosive actions and I hear sugar is great for this as the body uses that form of energy in a highly anaerobic workout.

My question is-is sugar as a form of energy good or bad regarding causing type 2 diabetes in that constantly using sugar for workouts will over work the pancreas and cause insulin resistance?

Honestly it depends on the rest of your diet and how much of a proportion sugar makes up. Also the amount in relation to your fibre intake is important.

Alf Veedersane

rondog wrote: »

not to Hi jack the thread BUT is using Sugar for energy a bad thing?

Ive read conflicting stories and im aware that constant sugar isn't great for the pancreas and subsequent releasing of insulin to lower blood sugar and that it can 'cook' the body.

I also understand that with more exercise the body becomes more insulin sensitive.My workouts require lots of explosive actions and I hear sugar is great for this as the body uses that form of energy in a highly anaerobic workout.

My question is-is sugar as a form of energy good or bad regarding causing type 2 diabetes in that constantly using sugar for workouts will over work the pancreas and cause insulin resistance?

You need ATP for explosive movements. You have some in your muscle but not much. Your muscle cells also contain some creatine phosphate which is broken down to quickly make more ATP. But again that's used pretty quickly so your body uses its glycogen stores to produce ATP from glucose.

After about two minutes of resting, the body starts to supply working muscles with oxygen whuch is used to break down the glucose for ATP. This glucose is from whats left in themuscles, glycogen in the liver or glucose from food in your intestine.

So, no...you don't need to take sugar for what you've described. Make sure to eat carbs to have enough glycogen in your muscles. Take some creatine monohydrate.

Labarbapostiza

rondog wrote: »

My question is-is sugar as a form of energy good or bad regarding causing type 2 diabetes in that constantly using sugar for workouts will over work the pancreas and cause insulin resistance?

What the story is, is it's good to a point. Beyond that point it's very bad indeed.

The sugar in sugary drinks hits your blood stream straight away, and your body does not react well to high sugar levels. And the overall process makes getting sugar to your muscles for energy less effective.

There's a Goldilocks range of where sugar is neither too high or too low in your blood. Your liver also makes sugar. But, above a certain point, your body treats the sugar as a toxin, and tries to dump it. Your energy drink is most likely to cause you fatigue. So, the tiredness you may feel after a work out, might have everything to do with the sugar, and nothing to do with the work out.

I have type II diabetes. The medical consensus is that it is not caused by eating too much sugar, the internet krank consensus varies. Type II diabetes is when you're in a certain range of having problems with dietary sugar. But basically anyone who eats more carbs than is good for them will experience symptoms. And the majority of people are already consuming too much carb/sugar than is good for them.

What I'd advise you to try, is try to eat like a diabetic (should) for a few days. No more than 45grms of carb in any meal. No potatoes, no sugar, no rice, no bread, absolutely no sugary drinks. If after about two days, you feel you have more energy, and your muscles feel better and work better, you may not be diabetic, but you've been eating too much sugar. You'll feel your best when your blood sugar is at that Goldilocks level.

I have too look closely at the labels of anything I eat, otherwise I'll be sick. Most foods sold in the supermarket, even stuff not that processed, is not diabetic safe. And it's not really safe for anyone.

Alf Veedersane

This article might be of some interest, OP.

It's not so much about increasing energy but reducing fatigue and helping you recover between sets and sessions better.

Zillah

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

But, above a certain point, your body treats the sugar as a toxin, and tries to dump it.

It depends on the sugar, though. Glucose can be used by absolutely any cell in your body and is an ideal energy source during/after exercise. It'll get gobbled up as you take it. Fructose, on the other hand, can only be processed in the liver and absolutely no where else. That is where the sugar overload health consequences come from. It essentially gets packaged up as lipids and triglycerides and dumped into the bloodstream.

Both sucrose and HFCS are about 50/50 glucose/fructose. I got a bag of glucose powder and have a small amount of that in my post-workout shake.

Unfortunately glucose (dextrose) does not taste very sweet as sugars go so they don't use it in food very much.

Labarbapostiza

Zillah wrote: »

It depends on the sugar, though. Glucose can be used by absolutely any cell in your body and is an ideal energy source during/after exercise. It'll get gobbled up as you take it. Fructose, on the other hand, can only be processed in the liver and absolutely no where else. That is where the sugar overload health consequences come from. It essentially gets packaged up as lipids and triglycerides and dumped into the bloodstream.

A lot of what you said is correct, but there's a serious misconception in there. What you've said about glucose is true, but your body can only use as much glucose at any time as it can use. Above that level your body needs to get it out of your blood. Basically, corn syrup is not an ideal fluid for a circulatory system.

If your body couldn't get the glucose level down simply you would die. When your glucose is too high, your liver will play its' part by converting it to fats, because fats circulating are not as bad as too much glucose, but this is not good either.

It's not simply that this fat will get stored, and make you look fat, the high level of fat in your blood sharply raises your chances of a heart attack. You may not in fact be overweight at all, or even ever eat fatty foods, but if you consistently have high fat levels in your blood, you're playing Russian roulette with a nearly loaded gun. A person who is slim, does lots of cardio, suddenly dropping dead from a heart attack, that's the kind of thing that happens with high fat levels.

The rest of the excess glucose is urinated.

How can you tell for certain, you have too much, too little, or just enough glucose in your blood? Or fats or anything else. You'd need blood tests. Full blood work. How can you tell if what you're doing in your routine, in terms of consuming supplements of glucose is effecting you. To be certain, you'd need to give several samples all throughout your routine. This would have to be done several times.

As far as sugar is concerned, there are two unfavourable states, hypoglycemia, where you have too little sugar in your blood. And most people never really have to worry about this, your liver can make glucose, and pump it into your blood. The second state is hyperglycemia, where you have too much sugar in your blood. And this state is very easy to get to.

The symptoms for hyperglycemia are fatigue, thirstiness, aches and pains. Which to most people they might assume are the results of a work out, and they don't think it's the sugar.

Both sucrose and HFCS are about 50/50 glucose/fructose. I got a bag of glucose powder and have a small amount of that in my post-workout shake.

The digestible component of any carbohydrate from plants, breaks down 50/50 glucose/fructose. And the industrial process for producing "high fructose" corn syrup is nearly identical to how your stomach processes corn, it dissolves plant carbohydrate in acid, producing a sugar syrup roughly 50/50 fructose/glucose, which then enters the blood stream. What's bad about processed sugar, is it just jumps straight into the blood stream instead of being slowly converted from carb, making you hyperglycemic.

Unfortunately glucose (dextrose) does not taste very sweet as sugars go so they don't use it in food very much.

No. Sucrose is the most common sugar used in flavouring, and sucrose is roughly a 50/50 blend of fructose and glucose. Glucose is not dextrose. Fructose and glucose are chemically identical bar one feature, they're essentially mirror images. The dex in dextrose means right-handed, or right spinning, levo is used to refer to left spinning chemicals. The body favours the left spinning molecules, glucose is the left spinning molecule, fructose is the right-spinning it's the dextrose.

Okay, if you eat a 100gram muffin, and the labelling says it has 80 grams of carbohydrate. When that's cooked up in your stomach by the acid, what you'll have is 40grams of glucose syrup for circulation, and 40 grams of fructose for processing by the liver. The processed sugar in the muffin will hit the blood sooner, than the flour, where the individual sugars need to be cleaved from the carbohydrate chains.

The best way to get your glucose, is from slowly digested vegetables, like cabbage...but not from potato.......Most vegetables were low carb, early humans did not have fruit juices. Wheat, rice, potatoes, syrups, the human body was not designed with those foods in mind. They're only fine in small doses, and better to avoid completely.

Alf Veedersane

I don't think the OP was talking about downing vats of corn syrup in any case...

Zillah

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

How can you tell for certain, you have too much, too little, or just enough glucose in your blood? Or fats or anything else. You'd need blood tests. Full blood work. How can you tell if what you're doing in your routine, in terms of consuming supplements of glucose is effecting you. To be certain, you'd need to give several samples all throughout your routine. This would have to be done several times.

Being not diabetic my body uses insulin to regulate my blood sugar. Lacking any of the symptoms of hyper/hypoglycemia I can be pretty certain my intake is fine. I did say a small amount. Probably one cookie's worth.

No. Sucrose is the most common sugar used in flavouring, and sucrose is roughly a 50/50 blend of fructose and glucose. Glucose is not dextrose. Fructose and glucose are chemically identical bar one feature, they're essentially mirror images. The dex in dextrose means right-handed, or right spinning, levo is used to refer to left spinning chemicals. The body favours the left spinning molecules, glucose is the left spinning molecule, fructose is the right-spinning it's the dextrose.

No you've gotten all mixed up. Glucose comes in two forms, the right-handed and the left-handed form (dextrose being right-handed, the left-handed version isn't used in biology). Fructose is a different molecule.


https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-in-structure-between-glucose-and-fructose

Note the different structure of the ring.

As Alf says this is all academic and not entirely on topic for the OP...

Mellor

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

Glucose is not dextrose. Fructose and glucose are chemically identical bar one feature, they're essentially mirror images. The dex in dextrose means right-handed, or right spinning, levo is used to refer to left spinning chemicals. The body favours the left spinning molecules, glucose is the left spinning molecule, fructose is the right-spinning it's the dextrose.
.

You are getting mixed up between d- and Dex.

Dextrose is glucose. The naturally occurring sugar. The full name is d-glucose. All the same substance. The d- stands for right handedness as you described. It's a right isomer. But it was called Dex-trose for another reason, because it rotates light right.

Fructose is Levulose. It reflects light left, hence the opposite naming. But it's also a right handed isomer, It's full name is d-fructose.

The mirror of dextrose is L-glucose, not fructose. L-glucose taste exactly like glucose. But we can't use it for energy. In that regard it's a zero calorie sugar, suitable for diabetics. But it doesn't exist in nature, and can't be to mass produced.
There's probably a l-fructose too

Dixie Chick

I need to check this out properly, but there is meant to be a fantastic app on Livestrong.com or soemthing by a guy whose big claim is getting people to gain weight quickly and safely so they can start to shred it into muscle.

I will check the name out and come back in on it cos the food will be hugely important

ETA: Bodybuilding.com, App is called "Shortcut to size" and it is free

Labarbapostiza

Zillah wrote: »

Being not diabetic my body uses insulin to regulate my blood sugar. Lacking any of the symptoms of hyper/hypoglycemia I can be pretty certain my intake is fine. I did say a small amount. Probably one cookie's worth.

Yes, but think about what you're getting your body to do. Which is detox itself of excess sugar. But that is, if you have ingested excess sugar. Which is not a particular easy thing to tell. A Mars bar, does not in fact help you work, rest or play.

I find I can get away with very little. I had a blueberry muffin yesterday, and it f-ed me up for the whole day. That is, it raised my blood sugar too high, and then my body spent the rest of the day trying to re-regulate. Which is not pleasant. I lived like that for a long time, never realising there was a connection between the food I was eating, and how crap I felt.

Labarbapostiza

Mellor wrote: »

You are getting mixed up between d- and Dex.

You're correct, I was getting a lot of my chemistry screwed up. And confusing different things.

There's a better description on Wiki's Sucrose entry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucrose#Metabolism_of_sucrose