We should stop putting women in jail. For anything.

RobYourBuilder

It sounds like a radical idea: Stop incarcerating women, and close down women’s prisons. But in Britain, there is a growing movement, sponsored by a peer in the House of Lords, to do just that.

The argument is actually quite straightforward: There are far fewer women in prison than men to start with — women make up just 7 percent of the prison population. This means that these women are disproportionately affected by a system designed for men.

But could women’s prisons actually be eliminated in the United States, where the rate of women’s incarceration has risen by 646 percent in the past 30 years? The context is different, but many of the arguments are the same.

Essentially, the case for closing women’s prisons is the same as the case for imprisoning fewer men. It is the case against the prison industrial complex and for community-based treatment where it works better than incarceration. But there is evidence that prison harms women more than men, so why not start there?

Any examination of the women who are in U.S. prisons reveals that the majority are nonviolent offenders with poor education, little employment experience and multiple histories of abuse from childhood through adulthood. Women are also more likely than men to have children who rely on them for support — 147,000 American children have mothers in prison.

Prison nation

The United States is a prison nation. More than 1.5 million people areincarcerated in the country. And this obsession with punishment is expensive. Cumulatively, states spend more than $52 billion a year on their prison systems. The federal government also spends tens of billions to police, prosecute and imprison people, though research demonstrates that incarceration harms individual well-being and does not improve public safety.

Full article here; http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/11/06/we-should-stop-putting-women-in-jail-for-anything/

The article actually brings up some legitimate problems with prisons in America and possible alternatives. I just don't really understand why the author had to frame it as a women's issue. Especially when after giving the statistic that women are only 7% of the prison population.

At home, Sen. Bacik has similar views;

There should be greater use of alternatives to custody. An open prison should be provided for women. Increased support services in the community are needed to address the complex needs of many women offenders (including mental health issues and alcohol or drug addictions), and enable them to maintain links with their children and families.

http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2014/10/imprison-fewer-women

Thoughts?

Generic Dreadhead

Well ok, I guess if there's an article on it....

RobYourBuilder

Cormac... wrote: »

Well ok, I guess if there's an article on it....

One that you didn't even bother to glance over before commenting.

Grayson

How come they're not recommending open prisons and better support services for men too?

Strong Life in Dublin

I ain't going to read that crap, lol why should they not go to jail? but it's ok for men to go to jail..........

Philo Beddoe

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

The article actually brings up some legitimate problems with prisons in America and possible alternatives. I just don't really understand why the author had to frame it as a women's issue. Especially when after giving the statistic that women are only 7% of the prison population.

People have been pointing out the benefits of prison reform for a long time. I suppose framing it as a women's issue might be one way of getting people to listen.

BoJack Horseman

Women offenders face fewer & shorter custodial sentences because they are women.

So going the extra step & exempting them from custodial sentencing altogether is the logical progression.

Exception from all criminal prosecution based on the presence of a lady-garden being the ultimate goal.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Womens prisons seem handy enough as it is, Compare Mountjoy mens prison to the Dochas centre.

Saying it's about the kids reeks of hypocrisy when a toddler died because she was taken from her parents and put into foster care with people who were previously violent offenders, iirc. Because the parents smoked pot.
They do have an obsession with prison. Stop putting so many people in general in prison not just women

Increased support services in the community are needed to address the complex needs of many women offenders (including mental health issues and alcohol or drug addictions), and enable them to maintain links with their children and families.

This applies to everyone.

lucylu

as a woman NO .. do the crime do the time..

hidinginthebush

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA

hatrickpatrick

The argument is actually quite straightforward: There are far fewer women in prison than men to start with — women make up just 7 percent of the prison population. This means that these women are disproportionately affected by a system designed for men.

*pukes*
So much for equality then? Prison isn't designed for men, it's designed for criminals. The word criminal is gender neutral.

Any examination of the women who are in U.S. prisons reveals that the majority are nonviolent offenders with poor education, little employment experience and multiple histories of abuse from childhood through adulthood.

And men who grow up to be criminals don't share these traits?

Big Nasty

Maybe I'm missing something painfully obvious here but surely if there were no female prisons there would be little / no deterrent for women to offend and thus the amount of females committing crimes would increase?

Sounds a pretty dumb idea to me.

hatrickpatrick

Philo Beddoe wrote: »

People have been pointing out the benefits of prison reform for a long time. I suppose framing it as a women's issue might be one way of getting people to listen.

This comment in and of itself reflects a frightening and depressing state of the world.

RobYourBuilder

Philo Beddoe wrote: »

People have been pointing out the benefits of prison reform for a long time. I suppose framing it as a women's issue might be one way of getting people to listen.

Nearly a third of all women prisoners in the world are in American jails. A crazy stat.

According to the International Centre for Prison Studies, nearly a third of all female prisoners worldwide are incarcerated in the United States of America. There are 201,200 women in US prisons, representing 8.8 percent of the total American prison population.

China comes a very distant second to the United States with 84,600 female prisoners in total or 5.1% of the overall Chinese prison population. Russia is in third position – 59,000 of its prisoners are women and this comes to 7.8 percent of the total.

Across the world, 625,000 women and children are being held in penal institutions with the female prison population growing on all five continents.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2014/09/23/nearly-a-third-of-all-female-prisoners-worldwide-are-incarcerated-in-the-united-states-infographic/

Duckworth_Luas

Does this mean they'll cancel Orange is the New Black?

FunLover18

Any examination of the women who are in U.S. prisons reveals that the majority are nonviolent offenders with poor education, little employment experience and multiple histories of abuse from childhood through adulthood.

Surely he majority of male prisoners would be just as uneducated with just as little employment experience. I'm sure some of them were abused as kids as well.

Women are also more likely than men to have children who rely on them for support — 147,000 American children have mothers in prison.

1. In some ways they're probably better off without that criminal influence in their life.
2. How many kids have fathers in prison.

mikom

Brendan Behan's gonna be pissed.........

Taxburden carrier

mikom wrote: »

Brendan Behan's gonna be pissed.........

Brendan Behan was always pissed

AudreyHepburn

Ridiculous in my opinion.....if you do the crime you have to do the time, simple as.

lazybones32

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Thoughts?

One thought: don't give these crazy people and their crazy ideas more publicity.

RobYourBuilder

lazybones32 wrote: »

One thought: don't give these crazy people and their crazy ideas more publicity.

The author, Patricia O'Brien, is an associate professor at the Jane Addams College of Social Work at University of Illinois at Chicago.

SEPT 23 1989

I thought chicks wanted equality

Grayson

FunLover18 wrote: »

Surely he majority of male prisoners would be just as uneducated with just as little employment experience. I'm sure some of them were abused as kids as well.

I read an article that estimated that 1 in 4 men are sexually assaulted in prison in the US. That would mean that in the US more men are sexually assaulted than women (not just in prison)

Prisons are not working either here or the US. There needs to be far more rehabilitation and less focus on punishment.

That goes for pre prison too. there are guys who accrue loads of convictions and aren't jailed because none are deemed serious enough for prison. they might not be, but that doesn't mean that nothing should be done. There should be programs to help prevent it getting worse.

bodice ripper

No! Going to women's prison was my retirement plan!

Generic Dreadhead

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I thought chicks wanted equality

Oh how naive

Philo Beddoe

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Nearly a third of all women prisoners in the world are in American jails. A crazy stat.

Considering that almost a quarter of the global prison population is in the US, it's not that surprising.

lazybones32

Grayson wrote: »

How come they're not recommending open prisons and better support services for men too?

Duh! When a woman commits a crime, many people think a man put her up to it/forced her to do it/hurt her in the past which caused her to act like this...which eliminates her personal responsibility for committing the crime.

Hazys

Ok if I wanted to murder somebody, i'll just pay a women to do it. There are no consequences if she gets caught so why wouldn't she do it if the money is right?

Hazys

Where are the feminists who are up in arms about the inequality of such a suggestion?

hatrickpatrick

Hazys wrote: »

Where are the feminists who are up in arms about the inequality of such a suggestion?

They're busy having a sing-song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY#t=0m25s

VinLieger

Statistacally more women are in prison for violent crimes than men so we should just remove all criminal responsibility for female violent crimes?

bodice ripper

Hazys wrote: »

Where are the feminists who are up in arms about the inequality of such a suggestion?

Just like every time "the feminists" are mentioned in AH, they exist as theoretical entity that are not represented on boards....

Potatoeman

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

The author, Patricia O'Brien, is an associate professor at the Jane Addams College of Social Work at University of Illinois at Chicago.

Sure as long as they are placed in open reform centers in her neighbourhood.

Beano

I think its a brilliant idea. My dream of running a team of female assassins could finally come true.

Lapin

Bollox to this. :mad:

What next?

We can't send gay lads to jail because it might taint their dainty sensitive souls?

No jailing of transexuals in case they get the piss ripped out of them on the inside?

Free all over 65's in case the prison service gets sued for ageism?

No more jailing under 25s because everyone deserves a few chances at life, (although I think this is happening already).

Before we know it we won't even be protected from convicted criminals anymore because someone somewhere will find a soft reason to prevent them from being banged up. Some rubbish about broken homes and having no facilities on council estates or some other rubbish excuse, (although I think this is.......)

Fuck it. If you do the crime - Be prepared to do the time.

No matter who, or what you are.

SeanW

Hazys wrote: »

Where are the feminists who are up in arms about the inequality of such a suggestion?

Celebrating it.

bodice ripper wrote: »

Just like every time "the feminists" are mentioned in AH, they exist as theoretical entity that are not represented on boards....

There's a few here, but many more in society as a whole including a wide variety of universities and national legislatures.

bodice ripper

SeanW wrote: »

Celebrating it.

There's a few here, but many more in society as a whole including a wide variety of universities and national legislatures.

Where? I have never encountered a hard line feminist post on AH. I have read blogs, sure, when it am feeling a bit low and feel like being galvanised by raw disdain. But the **** that the feminists get accused of on AH is never something a poster is actually proposing.

UCDVet

It's hard being a man in our modern societies. Can someone just tell me, once and for all....

Are we meant to treat women EQUALLY or DIFFERENTLY than men? One second, *I'm* a sexist jerk for thinking it's okay to say 'Hello' to someone (man or woman) who happens to walk by (see the Sexy Street Walking Thread). The next, I'm a sexist jerk for thinking anyone who does a crime, with the same circumstances surround it, deserves the SAME treatment. The whole time, I keep hearing that I'm meant to treat women equally....but when I do, I'm a sexist jerk....except when I'm supposed to know that I'm not supposed to treat them equally.

I'm just glad I'm married and don't really care. But seriously, make up your minds, and let me know.

bodice ripper

See? Lots of railing against, but no one actually proposing. It's a dialogue with the feminists in someone's head.

Hazys

bodice ripper wrote: »

Just like every time "the feminists" are mentioned in AH, they exist as theoretical entity that are not represented on boards....

I wasn't calling out members of boards but in society there are too many people of influence who bow to the pressure from the Militant Feminists (the minority of Feminists) who cry discrimination at every point (some are obviously valid issue but some are just stupid).

For example, the 30% women quota for women in Irish Elections (which the majority of boards members from what I've read are against). Feminists believe men and women should have equal rights which is fair but i think a lot of the Militant Feminists who think men and women socially, emotionally and physically are exactly the same, which to me is plain stupid.

I have a problem with the extreme Feminists who will cry foul that their isn't enough women in politics and force a quota of 30% of female politicians (they probably wanted 50% but 30% was a comprise). The quota is a bit counter productive for everybody as a lot of people are getting passed up for less qualified candidates. In a perfect world with no discrimination, I don't think there would be 50/50 split between Men and Women politicians as Men are naturally drawn to certain professions while women are attracted to others. Like why the majority of primary school teachers are women and garbage men are men. Forcing a 30% quota is an easy fix but it doesn't do anything to tackle the real barriers preventing women entering politics and excelling to the top of their potential.

Anyway, going a bit off track here. The point I was making was if Militant Feminists want men and women to be equal, then they should be campaigning for a 30% quota for women in jail cells but we won't hear a sound out of them because they don't really want equality, they want what suits them.

eviltwin

Hazys wrote: »

Where are the feminists who are up in arms about the inequality of such a suggestion?

I'm a feminist and I don't support this idea at all. A lot of women will feel the same.

bodice ripper

Hazys wrote: »

I wasn't calling out members of boards but in society there are too many people of influence who bow to the pressure from the Militant Feminists (the minority of Feminists) who cry discrimination at every point (some are obviously valid issue but some are just stupid).

For example, the 30% women quota for women in Irish Elections (which the majority of boards members from what I've read are against). Feminists believe men and women should have equal rights which is fair but i think a lot of the Militant Feminists who think men and women socially, emotionally and physically are exactly the same, which to me is plain stupid.

I have a problem with the extreme Feminists who will cry foul that their isn't enough women in politics and force a quota of 30% of female politicians (they probably wanted 50% but 30% was a comprise). The quota is a bit counter productive for everybody as a lot of people are getting passed up for less qualified candidates. In a perfect world with no discrimination, I don't think there would be 50/50 split between Men and Women politicians as Men are naturally drawn to certain professions while women are attracted to others. Like why the majority of primary school teachers are women and garbage men are men. Forcing a 30% quota is an easy fix but it doesn't do anything to tackle the real barriers preventing women entering politics and excelling to the top of their potential.

Anyway, going a bit off track here. The point I was making was if Militant Feminists want men and women to be equal, then they should be campaigning for a 30% quota for women in jail cells but we won't hear a sound out of them because they don't really want equality, they want what suits them.

(citations needed)

Hazys

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm a feminist and I don't support this idea at all. A lot of women will feel the same.

My problem is with the Militant Feminists, who take feminism past what its supposed to stand for.

Interstellar cellar

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm a feminist and I don't support this idea at all. A lot of women will feel the same.

Why do we never see feminist articles of outrage at such inequality?

crockholm

More prisons please,and when they fill up,throw a couple of bunk beds in.

Riddle101

Sexist towards men, and kind've a cop out. The law is the law at the end of the day, and you can't just make exceptions just because of what looks like a sob story tbh.

bodice ripper

Interstellar cellar wrote: »

Why do we never see feminist articles of outrage at such inequality?

Do you go looking for them? Most of the feminists I have met in real life are rarely in favour of the prison system in general

Boris Pecker

Women make up just 7 percent of the prison population.

Far more lenient sentencing for women in comparison to men will tend to have that effect.

RDM_83 again

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm a feminist and I don't support this idea at all. A lot of women will feel the same.

See the thing is I get your point, broad church and all, but in this particular case, when probably the most prominent voice of feminism in Ireland, Bacik, has similar views, you can't fault people for thinking these views are more mainstream than they really are if there isn't a visible and vocal dissociation from those voices.

Hazys

bodice ripper wrote: »

(citations needed)

I don't think you understand what an opinion is.