Ryan The Conquer

FIVE2_THREE

What more does the Man need to do ? Without a doubt the best Jockey applying his craft in the world today. He took the Cox plate on Adelaide and Now the Melbourne cup on a German horse. People can hold on to what Dettori did while working for Godolphin. but what Ryan is doing is much Harder. Freelance is much harder to do VS Ridding for the richest owners in the sport. Congrats Ryan.

the groutch

5 years since he's won the flat jockey's title.

just sayin.

nuckeythompson

Stupid statement

He gave up this years title to win big races overseas. He has no interest in the title. I bet Richard Hughes would gladly swap places with him

Peintre Celebre

Yeah totally different kettle of fish. If you think Hughes or Hanagan is a better jockey because of the titles id take a different angle.


What would you rather, a treble at a course like Bath on a Tuesday or a Melbourne Cup. Moore wins classics, something Hughes has a real lack of

Peintre Celebre

the groutch wrote: »

5 years since he's won the flat jockey's title.

just sayin.

Kieran O'Connell is the best tipster in the world by that logic

paddyisreal

great jockey but still a long way short of what dettori or kinane has achived but he has time on his side. Frankies ride the other night was a brilliant ride, moores was a stearing job

FIVE2_THREE

paddyisreal wrote: »

great jockey but still a long way short of what dettori or kinane has achived but he has time on his side. Frankies ride the other night was a brilliant ride, moores was a stearing job

Lets see Frankie rode for Godolphin for 20 years and has done very little since being fired. Kinane rode for Coolmore and Oxx. Ryan is winning big races all over the world in multiple hemispheres. while ridding FREELANCE. Kinane and Dettori couldn't do that while ridding for the top two stables in the world.

FIVE2_THREE

the groutch wrote: »

5 years since he's won the flat jockey's title.

just sayin.

Cox Plate,Melbourne cup double or the British jockey tittle ? Hmm the Jockey title is worth nothing but a trophy while the Cox plate/Mel cup is worth A$552,000/ £301,007 which would you chose ?

Gringo180

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Lets see Frankie rode for Godolphin for 20 years and has done very little since being fired. Kinane rode for Coolmore and Oxx. Ryan is winning big races all over the world in multiple hemispheres. while ridding FREELANCE. Kinane and Dettori couldn't do that while ridding for the top two stables in the world.

Lets not go over board here. Moore is a top class jockey but your going on like nobody would of rode those horses to win. No doubt about it that Kinane, Dettori and Murtagh at there peak would of also won on Adelaide and Protectionist.

FIVE2_THREE

Gringo180 wrote: »

Lets not go over board here. Moore is a top class jockey but your going on like nobody would of rode those horses to win. No doubt about it that Kinane, Dettori and Murtagh at there peak would of also won on Adelaide and Protectionist.

Are you serious ? Really ? so were going to play the coulda,shoulda, woulda game ? So since I'm going overboard on showing Ryan proper respect none of the 3 guys you've listed could hold or shine Lesters Boots. Dettori , Murtagh and Kinane combine were not half the jockey Lester was. as you said "let's not go overboard here"

Gringo180

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Are you serious ? Really ? so were going to play the coulda,shoulda, woulda game ? So since I'm going overboard on showing Ryan proper respect none of the 3 guys you've listed could hold or shine Lesters Boots. Dettori , Murtagh and Kinane combine were not half the jockey Lester was. as you said "let's not go overboard here"

I never said they were You come across as giving Moore more credit just because he is freelance, which doesnt make him a better jockey. My point was any jockey worth there salt would of rode the horses I mentioned to win.

DylanAFC

Why isn't Moore #1 at Ballydoyle? Is it a case of him turning it down or them not offering enough?

FIVE2_THREE

Gringo180 wrote: »

I never said they were You come across as giving Moore more credit just because he is freelance, which doesnt make him a better jockey. My point was any jockey worth there salt would of rode the horses I mentioned to win.

I've been in and around this sport for the better part of 25 years and I've never seen a non stable rider do what he has done. Dettori seems to be having a hard time ridding freelance or semi freelance given that his current boss doesn't even put him on his best horse. How has Keiren Fallon found the freelance life ? Not so good if you ask me in fact he has done so horrible ridding freelance that he is going to Santa Anita on a retirement run. when you're a stable rider you have everything handed to you. Freelance is a much harder life. Pat Smullen is another one. Take away Dermot Weld and where would he be ? Fallon,Murtagh,Dettori,Kienan are no Piggott,Eddery or Carson. Piggott Eddery and Carson dominated with and without the aid of powerful stables.

FIVE2_THREE

DylanAFC wrote: »

Why isn't Moore #1 at Ballydoyle? Is it a case of him turning it down or them not offering enough?

1. He doesn't want to ride in Ireland
2. He want's to only ride in big racers
3. The daily grind of racing is not what he wants. He would rather ride all over the world instead of ridding 5 at the Curragh or at Newmarket.

andyman

Just because you have been in the industry for 25 years does not mean your opinion is correct.

I happen to think Moore will go on to be one of the best ever. He's certainly the best around now anyway. It's no coincidence that the two big 3yo's this season suffered their first defeats of the season to a horse ridden by Moore.

FIVE2_THREE

andyman wrote: »

Just because you have been in the industry for 25 years does not mean your opinion is correct.

I happen to think Moore will go on to be one of the best ever. He's certainly the best around now anyway. It's no coincidence that the two big 3yo's this season suffered their first defeats of the season to a horse ridden by Moore.

And nor Have I said that my opinion is correct. what I did offer is my personal opinion. Notice I said ''I've been in and around this sport for the better part of 25 years and I've never seen a non stable rider do what he has done''

andyman

Yes, but you're very dismissive of other opinions regarding the likes of Dettori and Kinane.

Gringo180

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

I've been in and around this sport for the better part of 25 years and I've never seen a non stable rider do what he has done. Dettori seems to be having a hard time ridding freelance or semi freelance given that his current boss doesn't even put him on his best horse. How has Keiren Fallon found the freelance life ? Not so good if you ask me in fact he has done so horrible ridding freelance that he is going to Santa Anita on a retirement run. when you're a stable rider you have everything handed to you. Freelance is a much harder life. Pat Smullen is another one. Take away Dermot Weld and where would he be ? Fallon,Murtagh,Dettori,Kienan are no Piggott,Eddery or Carson. Piggott Eddery and Carson dominated with and without the aid of powerful stables.

Dettori and Fallon are well past there best. Moore is the best in the business currently thats why he is getting all the top rides.

DylanAFC

Mods should set up a poll. Ryan Moore now or Frankie in his prime

FIVE2_THREE

andyman wrote: »

Yes, but you're very dismissive of other opinions regarding the likes of Dettori and Kinane.

In the course of having an opinion that's bound to happen is it not ? I state my opinion and others states theirs. I 've never called those jockeys horrible. I simply listed others who were better. that's not being dismissive that's stating the facts.

andyman

What is stating the facts? Stating which jockeys you think are better?

I agree with the point that Moore is the best right now, but to say he's better than the likes of Frankie in his prime because the latter is past it now is nonsense. Moore has plenty of time to prove he is one of the best ever.

FIVE2_THREE

Gringo180 wrote: »

Dettori and Fallon are well past there best. Moore is the best in the business currently thats why he is getting all the top rides.

That maybe true but I also think its also a case of them resting on their laurels. Frankie thinks his name and fame can still carry him despite him under performing on the track. It's not a good look when you're the number one stable rider to Al Shaqab and yet you can't ride Treve. and Fallon I don't know what happened to him. he just faded away. I don't know what he hopes to accomplish at Santa Anita but he won't ride for Baffert,Sadler, or any of the other top trainers in California.

FIVE2_THREE

andyman wrote: »

What is stating the facts? Stating which jockeys you think are better?

I agree with the point that Moore is the best right now, but to say he's better than the likes of Frankie in his prime because the latter is past it now is nonsense. Moore has plenty of time to prove he is one of the best ever.

Stating the facts doesn't just consist of what I believe but the numbers also support my statements. The numbers are there for a reason. When Franke was in his prime he rode for the richest owner in the history of the sport. Ryan has never had that type of support. and another thing. has Frankie ever been considered the consensus pick for the best jockey in the world ? Ryan had American announcers calling him the best. this morning In Australia they were calling him the best. I don't recall anybody outside of England calling Frankie the best in the world. prime or no prime.

Gregk961

On the contrary I think moore being freelance is less of a handicap and more of a positive. Would he have ridden many more group winners this year if he was no.1 at ballydoyle?

FIVE2_THREE

Gregk961 wrote: »

On the contrary I think moore being freelance is less of a handicap and more of a positive. Would he have ridden many more group winners this year if he was no.1 at ballydoyle?

That's true. Being freelance has its positive and negative sides just as being a stable rider has its positive and negative side. for some reason people are obsessed with Ryan becoming stabled with Ballydoyle but the flip side of that is the current situation at Godolphin. they have De souza and Barzalona and yet I don't see them winning any G1's. maybe its the pressure or maybe its the lack of talent. But with Godolphin being the richest owners in the history of the sport they can't seem to figure it out.

Gringo180

Gregk961 wrote: »

On the contrary I think moore being freelance is less of a handicap and more of a positive. Would he have ridden many more group winners this year if he was no.1 at ballydoyle?

Spot on. He isnt tied down like other jocks and any owner/top trainer who wants to give there horse the best chance to win will always try and book him.

Gringo180

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

That's true. Being freelance has its positive and negative sides just as being a stable rider has its positive and negative side. for some reason people are obsessed with Ryan becoming stabled with Ballydoyle but the flip side of that is the current situation at Godolphin. they have De souza and Barzalona and yet I don't see them winning any G1's. maybe its the pressure or maybe its the lack of talent. But with Godolphin being the richest owners in the history of the sport they can't seem to figure it out.

Godolphin are an absolute joke of an operation. Any decent horses they buy they always ruin.

Thud

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

I've been in and around this sport for the better part of 25 years

...and can't spell "riding"

FIVE2_THREE

Thud wrote: »

...and can't spell "riding"

Don't drive and text.

Gregk961

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

That's true. Being freelance has its positive and negative sides just as being a stable rider has its positive and negative side. for some reason people are obsessed with Ryan becoming stabled with Ballydoyle but the flip side of that is the current situation at Godolphin. they have De souza and Barzalona and yet I don't see them winning any G1's. maybe its the pressure or maybe its the lack of talent. But with Godolphin being the richest owners in the history of the sport they can't seem to figure it out.

I just used Ballydoyle as an example, It goes the same for every stable it just happens that they are the most succesful.

As for Godolphin, do they even use De Sousa or Barzalona in the Uk and Ireland anymore? Id say I seen at least 15 different jockeys used this year, Kirby, Hughes, Doyle, Buick, Tylicki, Hardie, Lee all of the top of my head. Maybe Dettori deserves more credit here for all the success he had with them, or maybe the operation has just gone downhill in a big way.

FIVE2_THREE

Gregk961 wrote: »

I just used Ballydoyle as an example, It goes the same for every stable it just happens that they are the most succesful.

As for Godolphin, do they even use De Sousa or Barzalona in the Uk and Ireland anymore? Id say I seen at least 15 different jockeys used this year, Kirby, Hughes, Doyle, Buick, Tylicki, Hardie, Lee all of the top of my head. Maybe Dettori deserves more credit here for all the success he had with them, or maybe the operation has just gone downhill in a big way.

I don't want to get into speculation but their greatest success over the past 5 years has come in Dubai, the country they rule. So I'll leave it at that. I'm not saying that they dope their horses in Dubai but for some reason their horses become monsters when they return to Dubai and even if they did dope their horses in Dubai it's unlikely that the public would ever know. because they rule the country.

Gregk961

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

I don't want to get into speculation but their greatest success over the past 5 years has come in Dubai, the country they rule. So I'll leave it at that. I'm not saying that they dope their horses in Dubai but for some reason their horses become monsters when they return to Dubai and even if they did dope their horses in Dubai it's unlikely that the public would ever know. because they rule the country.

Its a reasonable accusation to be fair. I think it would be unfair to call <snip> and <snip> bad horses before their comfortable succeses in the Dubai world cup, but its interesting that they both put on personal best performances in that race.

Still dosnt account for Godolphins demise in this part of the world however.

paddyisreal

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Are you serious ? Really ? so were going to play the coulda,shoulda, woulda game ? So since I'm going overboard on showing Ryan proper respect none of the 3 guys you've listed could hold or shine Lesters Boots. Dettori , Murtagh and Kinane combine were not half the jockey Lester was. as you said "let's not go overboard here"

Was just waiting for the lester is the best quote..... just a tad predictable. I would hate to play football against you with the goal posts changing so much.

paddyisreal

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

I don't want to get into speculation but their greatest success over the past 5 years has come in Dubai, the country they rule. So I'll leave it at that. I'm not saying that they dope their horses in Dubai but for some reason their horses become monsters when they return to Dubai and even if they did dope their horses in Dubai it's unlikely that the public would ever know. because they rule the country.

Where is your evidence ? Aob horses win everything in Ireland so by your reckoning they must be doped also. Ridiculous speculation for someone apparently in the game so long

andyman

lads, I will not have any organisations or horses name dropped as being on drugs with absolutely no proof

Gregk961

andyman wrote: »

lads, I will not have any organisations or horses name dropped as being on drugs with absolutely no proof

I notice the Main Sequence thread left alone though. Similar circumstances to be honest

nuckeythompson

paddyisreal wrote: »

Where is your evidence ? Aob horses win everything in Ireland so by your reckoning they must be doped also. Ridiculous speculation for someone apparently in the game so long

To be fair they pick the opposition in Dubai with invites

Ryan uses his freelance as an adavantage , why on earth would he get signed with AOB and all the **** that goes with working for them, hell on earth I can assure you. Ryan is the coolest jockey ever and knows everyone wants him so he is not going to get stuck into any contract at all. I do know he is not interested in AOB job but have a gentlemans agreement

NaiveMelodies

Gregk961 wrote: »

I notice the Main Sequence thread left alone though. Similar circumstances to be honest

But it's allowed Stateside no?

mr.jingle

Gregk961 wrote: »

I notice the Main Sequence thread left alone though. Similar circumstances to be honest

In fairness everyone knows that horse is on lasix. Noone knows whats going on in Aobs or Godolphins operations and it's hear say.

paddyisreal

In all fairness there have been sone great dubai world cup winners. .. cigar, invasor, dubai millenium, curkin, animal kingdom, singspeil . There are some serious winners there. I would say since it went to tapeta it has dropped in standard a bit

tryfix

paddyisreal wrote: »

Where is your evidence ? Aob horses win everything in Ireland so by your reckoning they must be doped also. Ridiculous speculation for someone apparently in the game so long

O'Briens wins nearly everything in Ireland because he's got the stock.

A stable that has 31 2yo colts by Galileo and 14 fillies by Galileo in the yard, with dozens more sale topping quality 2yos alongside it is bound to succeed.

It's the hard to believe performances by some animals in general that should draw attention. And the US geldings like Main Sequence get more out of Lasix than the younger colts which explains their super improvements.

paddyisreal

tryfix wrote: »

O'Briens wins nearly everything in Ireland because he's got the stock.

A stable that has 31 2yo colts by Galileo and 14 fillies by Galileo in the yard, with dozens more sale topping quality 2yos alongside it is bound to succeed.

It's the hard to believe performances by some animals in general that should draw attention. And the US geldings like Main Sequence get more out of Lasix than the younger colts which explains their super improvements.

Never mentioned main sequence. This discussion was concerning godolphin horses winning in dubai and certain people saying there must be sinistor reasons why the horses improve. All i asked is where is the evidence that horses in dubai are doped.

FIVE2_THREE

paddyisreal wrote: »

Never mentioned main sequence. This discussion was concerning godolphin horses winning in dubai and certain people saying there must be sinistor reasons why the horses improve. All i asked is where is the evidence that horses in dubai are doped.

You can't possibly be this naive or perhaps you are. If your sheikh friends are so bold and brazen to have been found with drugs at Newmarket is it so far out of the possibility that they would have drugs in the country they own ? Where they would never be investigated ? It's clear that you're a Coolmore hater but Magnier is not the ruler of Ireland like the Maktoums rule Dubai. They can dope and drug as much as they want in Dubai and never be questioned.

nuckeythompson

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

You can't possibly be this naive or perhaps you are. If your sheikh friends are so bold and brazen to have been found with drugs at Newmarket is it so far out of the possibility that they would have drugs in the country they own ? Where they would never be investigated ? It's clear that you're a Coolmore hater but Magnier is not the ruler of Ireland like the Maktoums rule Dubai. They can dope and drug as much as they want in Dubai and never be questioned.

thats very true, and also if you ship anything to Dubai such as horse feed , drugs or anything for that matter relating to racing it must be consigned to HRH himself c/o Meydan or Nad Al Sheba in previous years.

paddyisreal

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/News/article1475922.ece

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

You can't possibly be this naive or perhaps you are. If your sheikh friends are so bold and brazen to have been found with drugs at Newmarket is it so far out of the possibility that they would have drugs in the country they own ? Where they would never be investigated ? It's clear that you're a Coolmore hater but Magnier is not the ruler of Ireland like the Maktoums rule Dubai. They can dope and drug as much as they want in Dubai and never be questioned.

you are obviously so close to the coolmore operation that you could elaborate on this

FIVE2_THREE

paddyisreal wrote: »

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/News/article1475922.ece

you are obviously so close to the coolmore operation that you could elaborate on this

What is there to answer ? Coolmore/Eaton were found to be non liable and the case was thrown out . surely you can do better than this.

paddyisreal

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

What is there to answer ? Coolmore/Eaton were found to be non liable and the case was thrown out . surely you can do better than this.

You should get your facts right. The case was not thrown out as the jury were split. Looks like a retrial is on the cards . Very serious allegations that you fail to even acknowledge . If it was anyone else but coolmore you would be on your high horse about it.

paddy no 11

How much dope was that vet caught with? it was some thousands of individual doses anyway. Not pointing the finger at any individual or group BTW

FIVE2_THREE

paddyisreal wrote: »

You should get your facts right. The case was not thrown out as the jury were split. Looks like a retrial is on the cards . Very serious allegations that you fail to even acknowledge . If it was anyone else but coolmore you would be on your high horse about it.

A split jury means no financial befits will be exchanged. something that the plaintiff was seeking. Serious allegations ? these allegations are not serious. all horses sold in the U.S. are on an as is basis. the mare was given pain medication and sold. something that thousands of American horses are given at sales. and later she was found to stricken with laminitis. the plaintiff alleged that Coolmore/Eaton knew she had laminitis an allegation that hasn't been found or proved. as I said surely you can do better that this. and by the way. how is your man Al Zarooni passing his day ?

FIVE2_THREE

paddy no 11 wrote: »

How much dope was that vet caught with? it was some thousands of individual doses anyway. Not pointing the finger at any individual or group BTW

which vet ? you know nothing about American Racing/Breeding or the sales process.you're just running your mouth and making unfounded allegations. The vet that gave the drug was a KEENELAND approved vet. that KEENELAND provided. NOT COOLMORE

paddyisreal

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

A split jury means no financial befits will be exchanged. something that the plaintiff was seeking. Serious allegations ? these allegations are not serious. all horses sold in the U.S. are on an as is basis. the mare was given pain medication and sold. something that thousands of American horses are given at sales. and later she was found to stricken with laminitis. the plaintiff alleged that Coolmore/Eaton knew she had laminitis an allegation that hasn't been found or proved. as I said surely you can do better that this. and by the way. how is your man Al Zarooni passing his day ?

For a man that knows so much about racing in the states tell me why magnier and co use todd pletcher...suspended numerous times for offences. If they are so much cleaner and better than everyone else why do they use a trainer with prevoius ?