Tony O'Reilly: The Real Deal

Harry Angstrom

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Revenue do actually - Large Cases Division specifically which is staffed with competent people.

Their advisors also audit their "days".

It's ridiculous to suggest that "tax exiles" (a nonsense term) are breaching the rules regarding days.

Tax exile is not a nonsense term, however way you think it differently. And if you think the Irish government is keeping track of the comings and goings of these people, then you're giving them far too much credit, or perhaps you're a civil servant pen-pusher yourself?

SaveOurLyric

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Why don't you read back on the conversation I've had with this person? His/her retort was that O'Reilly didn't come from a privileged background. I was merely stating a point that this was not the case.

It depends what you call privileged. AJF was by no means set up for his success. A middle class upbringing in 1950s Ireland, even going to one of its more prestigious schools was in no way elite or unusual. His parents did not hand him wealth or an inherited job or business empire. He made it himself with his talent immediately recognised, even in the non-event industrial world that Ireland was at the time, and made it in the UK and then the USA where there was no end of talent coveting his posts. And he was still exceptionally good.

AJF's sons were privileged to be sure - their names we do only know because of who their father is and the positions he was able to give them.

But O'Reilly himself, did it all himself. A remarkable talent.

Larry Wildman

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Tax exile is not a nonsense term, however way you think it differently. And if you think the Irish government is keeping track of the comings and goings of these people, then you're giving them far too much credit, or perhaps you're a civil servant pen-pusher yourself?

I'm a solicitor and I've seen a couple of audits of high profile non residents.

Harry Angstrom

Larry Wildman wrote: »

I'm a solicitor and I've seen a couple of audits of high profile non residents.

The audits of high-profile non residents who are good buddies with our politicians? I'd believe those audits as well.......

HeidiHeidi

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

The audits of high-profile non residents who are good buddies with our politicians? I'd believe those audits as well.......

It must be exhausting going through life thinking that everything and everyone is some sort of a conspiracy against the "ordinary man".

Larry Wildman

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

The audits of high-profile non residents who are good buddies with our politicians? I'd believe those audits as well.......

Revenue - The guys who went after Charles Haughey...yeah, they're very easy to influence.

I regularly hear of "tax exiles" cancelling meetings and insisting on meeting abroad because they manage their days so carefully.

The thought that these guys are actually here and hiding is frankly preposterous.

SaveOurLyric

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

It must be exhausting going through life thinking that everything and everyone is some sort of a conspiracy against the "ordinary man".

...where anyone who finishes school and whose father has a job gets handed the top spot of a global corporation.

Larry Wildman

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

...where anyone whose father has a job gets handed the top spot of a global corporation.

The Heinz guys sitting over there in the US went "nod nod wink wink...let's give the CEO's job to that fella from Griffith Avenue".

suirvale

why he did invested in irish independent , surely a guy of his calibre would be into Big Pharm or computers/electronics /Hedge funds etc,

Harry Angstrom

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Revenue - The guys who went after Charles Haughey...yeah, they're very easy to influence.

I regularly hear of "tax exiles" cancelling meetings and insisting on meeting abroad because they manage their days so carefully.

The thought that these guys are actually here and hiding is frankly preposterous.

I made a comment regarding one of those tax exiles earlier, but it was promptly removed, despite the fact that this particular person can be seen at Galway, Leopardstown, The Curragh and any other manner of Irish racecourses as regularly as clockwork. There's also another figure who makes quite a sizeable income from bloodstock and breeding interests in this country, despite the fact that he lives in Switzerland for tax purposes.

Considering I have not mentioned any names this time, I do not expect Boards to remove this post, but it merely goes to prove that certain individuals are quite happy to exploit very favourable tax rates in this country for business interests regarding horse racing and breeding, yet they have no intention of paying income tax to the Irish exchequer. Again, I have mentioned no names, so it might be fair to allow this post to stand (even allowing for the fact that you happen to be a solicitor).

Harry Angstrom

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

It depends what you call privileged. AJF was by no means set up for his success. A middle class upbringing in 1950s Ireland, even going to one of its more prestigious schools was in no way elite or unusual.

What planet are you living on? Ireland was a very divided country in the 1950's. Your assertion that "A middle class upbringing in 1950s Ireland, even going to one of its more prestigious schools was in no way elite or unusual" is just plain crass in the extreme; considering the majority of school leavers at that time were lucky to complete a primary school or inter cert education :rolleyes:

Harry Angstrom

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

It must be exhausting going through life thinking that everything and everyone is some sort of a conspiracy against the "ordinary man".

Well if you think that this country has been a paragon of equal opportunities since the foundation of this State; then once again, you're quite the naive ingenue, aren't you?

Jumboman

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Well if you think that this country has been a paragon of equal opportunities since the foundation of this State; then once again, you're quite the naive ingenue, aren't you?

In Ireland its about who you know not what you know.

Larry Wildman

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I made a comment regarding one of those tax exiles earlier, but it was promptly removed, despite the fact that this particular person can be seen at Galway, Leopardstown, The Curragh and any other manner of Irish racecourses as regularly as clockwork. There's also another figure who makes quite a sizeable income from bloodstock and breeding interests in this country, despite the fact that he lives in Switzerland for tax purposes.

Considering I have not mentioned any names this time, I do not expect Boards to remove this post, but it merely goes to prove that certain individuals are quite happy to exploit very favourable tax rates in this country for business interests regarding horse racing and breeding, yet they have no intention of paying income tax to the Irish exchequer. Again, I have mentioned no names, so it might be fair to allow this post to stand (even allowing for the fact that you happen to be a solicitor).

You can spend 139 days in Ireland and still not be tax resident here.

Ignoring tax, do you not think that it's logical and reasonable that if someone spends 226 days of the year in one place and 139 days of the year in another that they're deemed to be living in the former rather than the latter. These people don't live here, simple as.

Paulownia

There are lots of stories about this man that I have heard over the years that he has been a high profile business man.
He did not make his fortune by being mr nice guy, anyone who has been near him could tell you that .
In common with a lot of self made people he has enormous charm and charisma and people have always fallen for that and it has stood to him. He has always been a wonderful person to have dinner with.
I didn't see the programme, I haven't read all this thread but I would like to make the point that he and his wife, tax exiles living in a tax haven have the resources, if they so wished, to pay their debts in Ireland and come here and end their days in great comfort in Castlemartin.
They have the resources to surround themselves with racehorses and Rolls Royces just like before if they so wished.
But they have moved on, their lives are elsewhere, and all the dust will settle in Kildare. She was never going to live there anyway, believe me.

Valetta

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I made a comment regarding one of those tax exiles earlier, but it was promptly removed, despite the fact that this particular person can be seen at Galway, Leopardstown, The Curragh and any other manner of Irish racecourses as regularly as clockwork. There's also another figure who makes quite a sizeable income from bloodstock and breeding interests in this country, despite the fact that he lives in Switzerland for tax purposes.

Considering I have not mentioned any names this time, I do not expect Boards to remove this post, but it merely goes to prove that certain individuals are quite happy to exploit very favourable tax rates in this country for business interests regarding horse racing and breeding, yet they have no intention of paying income tax to the Irish exchequer. Again, I have mentioned no names, so it might be fair to allow this post to stand (even allowing for the fact that you happen to be a solicitor).

Why would they pay income tax here when they don't live here.

I spent at least 100 days in the UK last year. Should I be castigated for not paying income tax there?

mikom

O'Reilly............ the sycophants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNuV0W9upTI

Paulownia

Valetta wrote: »

Why would they pay income tax here when they don't live here.

I spent at least 100 days in the UK last year. Should I be castigated for not paying income tax there?

To be fair to everyone let it be said that the taxpayer is footing the bill for AIB's losses other than whatever they can get their hands on of his here in Ireland.
Any assets beyond this jurisdiction are safe unless he volunteers to surrender them.
CastleMartin was full of very valuable stuff including impressionist paintings, I saw them myself, where are they now?

Beano

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I made a comment regarding one of those tax exiles earlier, but it was promptly removed, despite the fact that this particular person can be seen at Galway, Leopardstown, The Curragh and any other manner of Irish racecourses as regularly as clockwork. There's also another figure who makes quite a sizeable income from bloodstock and breeding interests in this country, despite the fact that he lives in Switzerland for tax purposes.

Considering I have not mentioned any names this time, I do not expect Boards to remove this post, but it merely goes to prove that certain individuals are quite happy to exploit very favourable tax rates in this country for business interests regarding horse racing and breeding, yet they have no intention of paying income tax to the Irish exchequer. Again, I have mentioned no names, so it might be fair to allow this post to stand (even allowing for the fact that you happen to be a solicitor).

by "exploit" do you mean make sure they stay under the maximum number of days they are allowed to be in the country and still be non-resident?

For Reals

Larry Wildman wrote: »

You can spend 139 days in Ireland and still not be tax resident here.

Ignoring tax, do you not think that it's logical and reasonable that if someone spends 226 days of the year in one place and 139 days of the year in another that they're deemed to be living in the former rather than the latter. These people don't live here, simple as.

because.....

FloatingVoter

Plenty of people are non-resident here for tax purposes. Anyone who works as a senior executive / college lecturer probably spends 7 months here - 5 back home in London or vice versa. They get to choose which jurisdiction they declare their decidedly upper middle class income in. The rules of double taxation come into effect there and they work it out between Revenue and the Inland Revenue...any double taxation is part of a refund be it in euro or sterling.
The likes of Bono, O' Reilly, Branson, our Indian "richest man in Ireland" are super-rich. .Don't think of them as people, merely the human faces of corporations. Their PAYE taxes will be in order in respect of their roles as directors of Irish companies. Their global earnings are the stuff of fairydust.

O'Reilly married his money...made a good fist of it and ultimately lost at the table. He isn't complaining, merely fighting - as he should. The fact that RTE deems him something unique is weird.

marienbad

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Plenty of people are non-resident here for tax purposes. Anyone who works as a senior executive / college lecturer probably spends 7 months here - 5 back home in London or vice versa. They get to choose which jurisdiction they declare their decidedly upper middle class income in. The rules of double taxation come into effect there and they work it out between Revenue and the Inland Revenue...any double taxation is part of a refund be it in euro or sterling.
The likes of Bono, O' Reilly, Branson, our Indian "richest man in Ireland" are super-rich. .Don't think of them as people, merely the human faces of corporations. Their PAYE taxes will be in order in respect of their roles as directors of Irish companies. Their global earnings are the stuff of fairydust.

O'Reilly married his money...made a good fist of it and ultimately lost at the table. He isn't complaining, merely fighting - as he should. The fact that RTE deems him something unique is weird.

He is a bit more than ''married his money '' though and he is unique in any terms never mind in RTE terms. His early business career becoming COO of a giant American Corporation in the early 70's from a starting point of An Bord Bainne in the early 60's is an astonishing trajectory even now, never mind then when Ireland was no more than a rural backwater .

And then we have his brilliant sporting career . Admiration is not to be confused with adulation.

CatFromHue

Watched it the other night and found it a good show, and seemed to be fairly balanced in it's praise and criticism.

It did mention as well that he was ruthless when it needed to be, as successful people have to be.

Admiration is not to be confused with adulation.

Very good phrase and he was certainly one to be admired for getting to where he got, let alone doing it as an Irishman when Ireland wasn't up to much.

Jumboman

CatFromHue wrote: »

Watched it the other night and found it a good show, and seemed to be fairly balanced in it's praise and criticism.

It did mention as well that he was ruthless when it needed to be, as successful people have to be.



Very good phrase and he was certainly one to be admired for getting to where he got, let alone doing it as an Irishman when Ireland wasn't up to much.

Any "Irishman" who accepts a knighthood is not Irish in my book.

CatFromHue

If you equate being Irish as anti English that would be a correct opinion.

I personally don't and have a wider remit for what being Irish is. To me anyone Mick that gets an award of such high acclaim in another country is doing all right by me.

Harry Angstrom

For Reals wrote: »

because.....

Because our politicians say so, and considering there's a current story brewing about certain high-profile polticians and prominent businessmen and their off-shore accounts and the DPP's failure to investigate, I reckon it's safe enough to assume that this country is rife with corruption and sharp practices, because tax is for little people, after all........

Harry Angstrom

And if the Boards mods want to remove my last post, then I'll be quite happy to allow those politicians, businessmen and our beloved DPP to sue me.

SaveOurLyric

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I reckon it's safe enough to assume that this country is rife with corruption and sharp practices, because tax is for little people, after all........

It is. And the little people of Ireland elect little people like themselves to positions of power and leadership. So no wonder that the situation is a shambles. But they have no other option - it is a country populated by little people.
The rarest exception like AJF rises above it though, and fair play to him for doing so.

SaveOurLyric

Jumboman wrote: »

Any "Irishman" who accepts a knighthood is not Irish in my book.

Classic Irish attitude. And some say begrudgery is only a tired stereotype.

Larry Wildman

Jumboman wrote: »

Any "Irishman" who accepts a knighthood is not Irish in my book.

Parochial gombeenery.

Would you feel the same about someone receiving the Legion D'Honare or similar?

And aren't people born pre 1949 British citizens anyway?