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Tony O'Reilly: The Real Deal

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  • #92
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    I'd acknowledge that fact as well. Fair play to him. Not sure I'd do the same if I were in his position, but I'll never get the chance to test that, so it's kind of moot.

    I still think that's a separate issue.

    I'm tempted to stay up all night and argue employment/employees and whether or not it's Victorian benevolence (!) or plain capitalist reality. But I really can't be bothered.

    Back to tonight's TV programme, which is what this thread is meant to be about - as I said in my first post, I thought it was a sad end to a life which appears to have been devoted to achievement in sport, industry and family. He seems to have done harm to no-one, and a lot of good for a lot of people, bar himself in the end.

    I suspect we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

    Well that's one of the main issues as far as I'm concerned. People like O'Reilly and Smurfit expect to be talked about in hagiographical tones, as if they have turned water into wine - when in reality, they have feathered their own nests and then cynically enjoyed the benefits of this country while paying very little in personal tax. It's a pity that the tugging of the forelock still prevails when these people are being discussed, as evidenced by the majority of posts on this thread tonight.


  • #93
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,594 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    Well that's one of the main issues as far as I'm concerned. People like O'Reilly and Smurfit expect to be talked about in hagiographical tones, as if they have turned water into wine - when in reality, they have feathered their own nests and then cynically enjoyed the benefits of this country while paying very little in personal tax. It's a pity that the tugging of the forelock still prevails when these people are being discussed, as evidenced by the majority of posts on this thread tonight.

    I'm tugging no-one's forelock.

    In fairness, I don't think Smurfit or O'Reilly expect anything. I think you're projecting that onto them.

    They did what they did, and I (and clearly others) think that they deserve kudos for that. They feathered their own nests, fair enough - but they feathered a fair few employees' nests at the same time. Why do they get no credit for that?

    Again, for the umpteenth time, if there weren't the big employers like these guys and many more like them, where would the employment come from?


  • #94
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    Again, for the umpteenth time, if there weren't the big employers like these guys and many more like them, where would the employment come from?

    And again, your view of the employer/employee two tier relationship seems to be rooted in some kind of Dickensian era.


  • #95
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,594 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    And again, your view of the employer/employee relationship seems to be rooted in some kind of Dickensian era.
    How should it work then?

    Spell it out for me. I clearly have no idea of modern-day employment ideals.


  • #96
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    How should it work then?

    Spell it out for me. I clearly have no idea of modern-day employment ideals.

    Employers choose to employ people in this country because we have a predominantly well-educated workforce, which is quite beneficial for those employers.
    Our education system is funded by the citizens of this country through their taxes, apart from the tax-exile elites like O'Reilly, Smurfit and co., who choose to pay a tiny fraction of their income to the Monegasques or the Bahamians or the Swiss. And with that, I'm off to bed. Goodnight Vienna.


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  • #97
    IRE60
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭IRE60


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    He accepted it as a person born in Ireland pre 1949 and the formation of the Rebublic - a de facto "British subject" therefore but then a Citizen of the Republic


  • #98
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,811 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Missed this. Is it worth a watch? Boring?


  • #99
    CountyHurler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,657 ✭✭✭CountyHurler


    walshb wrote: »
    Missed this. Is it worth a watch? Boring?

    Yeah it's worth watching.. It's only an hour long though so it's not that heavy on detail..


  • #100
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    He's also a tax exile. Not so petty. All of his employees have to pay their fair share of tax, so why shouldn't he?

    Do you even know what that means? "Tax exile" is bandied about like he's living down the road from us and somehow dodging tax. It means that he doesn't live here. The man doesn't live in Ireland. Why would someone who doesn't live here pay tax here?


  • #101
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    Do you even know what that means? "Tax exile" is bandied about like he's living down the road from us and somehow dodging tax. It means that he doesn't live here. The man doesn't live in Ireland. Why would someone who doesn't live here pay tax here?

    Strange that, because every time I switch on the racing, himself and his wife are swanning about The Curragh and Leopardstown.


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  • #102
    SaveOurLyric
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    He came from a privileged background and had a privileged life. I'm not sure why I should have to respect that.

    Nonsense. His background was not especially privileged - at least, no more than hundreds of thousands of Irish people over the last 50 years. And inconsequential given the magnitude of his meteoric business rise at a young age, and exceptional performance in a wide range of interests. You seem to have issues with people choosing business as their field of interest. Yet you are in the minority. Very many try to achieve O'Reilly's level of success in the same field and do not get to a fraction of it. And to excel in such a competitive area of life does indeed deserve respect.


  • #103
    BabysCoffee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭BabysCoffee


    CountyHurler wrote: »
    Yeah it's worth watching.. It's only an hour long though so it's not that heavy on detail..

    I'll watch it later today.


  • #104
    CountyHurler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,657 ✭✭✭CountyHurler


    BabysCoffee wrote: »
    I'll watch it later today.

    Make sure and join the debate with Harry and Heidi when you're finished.. :pac:


  • #105
    robclay26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭robclay26


    MrsD007 wrote: »
    AJ may not have been perfect but I've zero time for Denis O'Brien.

    agree!!


  • #106
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    Strange that, because every time I switch on the racing, himself and his wife are swanning about The Curragh and Leopardstown.

    Someone can be here for 139 days a year and not be Irish tax resident.

    That kind of makes sense as someone like that doesn't live here.

    If they're spending 226 days a year in another place and 139 days in Ireland, it's pretty cut and dried that they live in that other place.


  • #107
    Thargor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,206 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    How did a documentary on one of the biggest bankrupts in Irish history fail to mention how he makes his money now?


  • #108
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Is he losing everything?


  • #109
    downonthefarm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,308 ✭✭✭downonthefarm


    Bambi wrote: »
    Is he losing everything?

    Is he fook .
    Another cute hoor id imagine.he didn't get to be a billionaire by being an honest Abel


  • #110
    PIORUN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 428 ✭✭PIORUN


    he really did seem to have his head up his arse when it came to Waterford..the downturn meant people couldn't afford unnecessary ornaments such as this, its bizarre that he didn't see that. I suppose he would say it was about peoples jobs but a billionaire( ex billionaire ) with a heart, come on!


  • #111
    Thargor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,206 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Yeah I didn't buy that saving the jobs crap either, his ego wouldn't let him admit failure and salvage something, especially with Dennis O Brien ready to laugh at him in the papers.


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  • #112
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    Someone can be here for 139 days a year and not be Irish tax resident.

    That kind of makes sense as someone like that doesn't live here.

    If they're spending 226 days a year in another place and 139 days in Ireland, it's pretty cut and dried that they live in that other place.

    Ah yeah, sure they're all grand as long as their residence and domicile activities are monitored...... And who exactly monitors the comings and goings of our tax exiles? Our Government departments do, and we can really rely on them, can't we? :rolleyes:


  • #113
    FloatingVoter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭FloatingVoter


    The man is rich beyond belief. He took a financial bath betting that designer glass would be popular in a recession. He'd have dumped the lossmaker in 2007 when the recession was looming if he had any sense.
    Some banks are coming after his declared and very public interests. His private interests hidden behind shell companies will keep him in Alzheimers medication for some time to come.
    People with money to burn on crap like Waterford Glass are smart enough to see it for what it is at the end of the day (c. 2008)- a vessel you drink out of. Not a Picasso, not a prime location hotel, not a surefire hit single. Just a yoke that you drink from. Breakable and worthless.


  • #114
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    SaveOurLyric wrote: »
    Nonsense. His background was not especially privileged - at least, no more than hundreds of thousands of Irish people over the last 50 years.

    A Belvederian whose daddy was Inspector General of Customs? Sure I knew lots of poor fellas who had a similar background to him :rolleyes:


  • #115
    For Reals
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭For Reals


    septictank wrote: »
    I worked a few gigs for him back in the mid 80's, he was a pleasure to work for
    no crap, once he was happy with you he trusted your judgment on how to run the gig.

    He always made it his thing to come and thank the workers on the night and look after them himself, made it a thing to always have a drink with the staff if only a mouthful before he left, he would always leave money with the manager for us, gentleman.

    Sounds like Slipper from the Irish RM.

    Down in parts of Kerry they say the same about Haughey.


  • #116
    SaveOurLyric
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    A Belvederian whose daddy was Inspector General of Customs? Sure I knew lots of poor fellas who had a similar background to him :rolleyes:

    Me two. So his background in no way presaged his standout career.


  • #117
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    SaveOurLyric wrote: »
    Me two. So his background in no way presaged his standout career.

    Me three.
    Sure a fella who left school without even a Primary Cert, and having to start a menial job as a young teenager would have had exactly the same career opportunities as Sir A.J.F. Silly silly me for thinking otherwise.


  • #118
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    Ah yeah, sure they're all grand as long as their residence and domicile activities are monitored...... And who exactly monitors the comings and goings of our tax exiles? Our Government departments do, and we can really rely on them, can't we? :rolleyes:

    Revenue do actually - Large Cases Division specifically which is staffed with competent people.

    Their advisors also audit their "days".

    It's ridiculous to suggest that "tax exiles" (a nonsense term) are breaching the rules regarding days.


  • #119
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,594 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    Me three.
    Sure a fella who left school without even a Primary Cert, and having to start a menial job as a young teenager would have had exactly the same career opportunities as Sir A.J.F. Silly silly me for thinking otherwise.

    So AJF should squander his talent and ability and capacity for hard work just because someone out there didn't have quite as "privileged" start in life as he did?

    I'm sure there are many examples of people who overcame an adverse start in life to be riproaring success. Just as there are many who had a far better start in life than Tony O'Reilly and wasted that opportunity.

    Why knock him for taking his abilities and talents and running with them? Why not applaud him for providing huge employment opportunities over the years in the many industries in which he worked?


  • #120
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    For Reals wrote: »
    Sounds like Slipper from the Irish RM.

    Down in parts of Kerry they say the same about Haughey.

    Paddy loves a pat on his head from his betters


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  • #121
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    So AJF should squander his talent and ability and capacity for hard work just because someone out there didn't have quite as "privileged" start in life as he did?

    I'm sure there are many examples of people who overcame an adverse start in life to be riproaring success. Just as there are many who had a far better start in life than Tony O'Reilly and wasted that opportunity.

    Why knock him for taking his abilities and talents and running with them? Why not applaud him for providing huge employment opportunities over the years in the many industries in which he worked?

    Why don't you read back on the conversation I've had with this person? His/her retort was that O'Reilly didn't come from a privileged background. I was merely stating a point that this was not the case.


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