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Anger as jobless told to put Cvs online or lose dole

  • 03-11-2014 10:57am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/anger-as-jobless-are-told-put-cvs-online-or-lose-dole-30712631.html

    Now I know I am probably opening a can of worms here and that people probably won't bother even reading the article or thinking it through before getting on their high horses. But I though this warranted discussion.

    I for one see no issue with this at all. Surely if those currently on the dole are as desperate for work as they claim they would have no problem posting their CVs online?

    Obviously if you don't have a computer or are not computer literate then there needs to be an option there to be able to send a paper copy of it off.

    But other than that I can't see why anyone would be angry at this. Personally I think it's only right that if you are too lazy to look for work then you shouldn't be entitled to any benefits. Why should the rest of us pay for for such laziness?


«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    In there first,

    this will be good.

    To be honest it should not be a big problem, but as usual it will only affect those who actually want work.
    I offered a job to a guy the other day, 24, no qualifications, not much experience.
    He lasted 2 days before telling me he was better off on the dole. I doubt him loading up a job CV will help much


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭Chocolate Lions


    allibastor wrote: »
    In there first,

    this will be good.

    There's more of the above posts in these threads than anything else. It will be good will it? Great, thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    Non issue. This is usually how one gets a job these days.
    Obviously there should be support to help people who genuinely don't have the skills to upload a cv.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭muppetkiller


    Can't see an issue with it myself. Although not everyone is computer literate enough to do it.

    I would imagine that most people genuinely looking for work would have a CV anyway.

    I'd be interested though to know how much of a validation would take place ? Would uploading a generic file work ? I can't see the department checking every line of a file to verify it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Steven81


    What happens if a person gets a job who doesnt want it, he will do nothing get the sack and be back getting his benefits the week after.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭Pwindedd


    Could totally work - database of cv's or peoples skills - companies are incentivised to take people on from the database - the longer the people have been unemeployed the higher the incentive.

    If you are available for work i don't see how you wouldn't be jumping at the chance to get your CV out there and back into work?

    if you're not available for work (ie don't want to) then you get no dole assistance
    if you can't work you'd probably be on the appropriate income support i.e disability benefit and this scheme would not apply to you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,921 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    its very unclear as what "upload your cv" means, but if its in conjuction with a new "fas" website then it'll likely be simply filling out a skills profile and work experience or the likes in an online database.
    A profile that any jobseeker will have either done up as a CV or at the worst in the back of their head as part of their job finding strategy.

    if someone who is 7 days a week at a loose end cant manage that, then they dont really deserve 200 odd euro tax free per week - plus rent allowance and whatever other benefits are up for grabs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 706 ✭✭✭Caprica6


    Most people have there cvs online these days its not a big deal.

    Personally this method has never worked for me.....just another sensationalist article making it look like there doing something. ....not every one on the dole wants to be on it :/ unfortunately articles like this will make people revert to insults. ...you should check out some of the facebook comments about it already :/


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    So given the rather cavalier attitude the state holds with personal data, of which a CV is, then a requirement so upload it for distribution would seem to be holding the unemployed in disrespect when compared to non-employed. Not that the latter group are valued much beyond their utility as milch cows for state coffers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Steven81 wrote: »
    What happens if a person gets a job who doesnt want it, he will do nothing get the sack and be back getting his benefits the week after.

    The dole is for people actively seeking work, not those that don't want it. In theory anyway!

    Don't want the job? Halve their dole


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 706 ✭✭✭Caprica6


    The dole is for people actively seeking work, not those that don't want it. In theory anyway!

    Don't want the job? Halve their dole

    Took me a year to find a job lucilky the state has a kinder attitude then what you have stated
    ..... with out help I would have been homeless and hungry :/ Also not ever one gets 200 the rate is 188.... I was on 130.....working since I was 15 so had no issue on accepting help :/


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭BBJBIG


    My CV has Value.
    I don't hand it out to Kunts on street corners ...

    So, this little Oirish Dictatorship can fook roigh off.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    There's more of the above posts in these threads than anything else. It will be good will it? Great, thanks.

    I did edit after I got in there first.

    And as for your value adding post, great, thanks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    The move is part of a revamp of the old Fas JobsIreland.ie website, now run by Solas, to allow employers search the Live Register for job candidates.

    Right here's the thing... Anyone who has a half decent CV will be on LinkedIn and will probably be actively looking for work anyway. Anyone advertising for staff can place an ad on any site and will probably get a hundred CVs. This will do nothing for jobs in the country because if I'm going to hire someone, be it managerial or a shelf stacker, I'm not going to go looking through CVs online. I'm going to place an ad and see who responds. If I can't get someone, I go to a recruitment agency!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    This system will be impossible to enforce and keep track of.
    FAs will need to have access to all job databases and all job postings of every company before they could utilise this.

    Unless they just want everyone on the dole to upload a CV to FAS, in which case it would do nothing at all unless there is a search string tie in to match a person to the job spec, which would mean FAS (Solas) would need to update their computer systems and hire better search operators.

    Working in recruitment, we have skilled(ish) people who upload Cv's and details of candidates and still never get 100% correct information, so I am at a loss as to how FAS will do it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,450 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    The INOU has reservations about encouraging people to seek employment?

    If ever there was a crowd trying to protect their own interests... :rolleyes:

    This is a GOOD thing for unemployed people, and anyone concerned about people who are computer illiterate - you'd swear these people had no friends or family. That's just looking for excuses, and concerns about online fraud or possible identity theft?

    Yeah, because unemployed people are swimming in pools of cash...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭Mrs Garth Brooks


    Only a few months ago, I was stupid enough to be sent/forced onto a very basic level 3, on the same level as the junior cert, computer coursr...to learn new skills as library researching skills and internet skills for 11 months. I wasn't given a choice on courses to do. I put my put foot down and found a course I did want to do. They werent going to help me, it was a private run course, got the forms for the grant, filled it out and left them back myself. Followed it up as I didn't hear back, to be told that I didn't leave the forms back.

    Basically, I do what they say.

    Have an ordinary degree and a level 6 and well capable of using the internet and applying for jobs.

    So according to them I don't know how to upload my CV.

    I have no problems uploading my CV, but I don't want to be treated like thick piece of sh!t either, to be sent on a mickey mouse soulless course for 11 months with no job prospects after.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭doolox


    There must be some underlying reason for people not wanting to work. I was fortunate enough to come from a family background that valued work and earning your way through life at some job or enterprise whether employed or self employed etc but many people cannot keep employed all their lives and need help. Those who are unable to keep a job may suffer from depression, drug addiction or some form of health issue which needs to be sorted out first before condemning them as lazy or shiftless out of hand or making some other value judgement based on little or no solid data.

    As our country recovers we need to invest time and money in making sure all our people are sufficiently educated to take up the jobs that are becoming available and sorting out the people who cannot work in standard 40hr week job.

    Payments may need to be made to people for example that are close to retirement and, due to agism, may never be reemployed again before retirement. Certain mental health issues may exist which prevent some people from holding down a job, these need to be categorised honestly and openly so as to keep the job seeking resources for those most capable of retaining a job and not waste a job seekers and employers time with someone doomed to lose the job too quickly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,666 ✭✭✭tritium


    From the article
    "I hope that is the case and this is not a measure to weed out those not looking for work, because the vast majority of the unemployed are desperately anxious to get back to work," he said.

    "I'm concerned that claimants do not have their jobseekers payment stopped. That would seem to be a very harsh decision if taken."

    I'm not sure why a representative of the genuinely unemployed would be concerned at a measure to identify the scammers in their ranks. If an unemployed person is desperate to get back to work then surely anything that raises their visibility to potential employers is to be welcomed? If someone chooses not to do this, or to seek help to do if if they lack IT skills, then I'd be rather uncomfortable about how desperate they really were to find work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Have an ordinary degree and a level 6 and well capable of using the internet and applying for jobs.

    A level 6 in what?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    To be honest this is logical as long as they are putting the resources in place to provide a workable and easy to use solution for the unemployed and an easily accessible resource for potential employers to search. If not then it's another ill-thought out "tick the box" exercise from the Government and PS.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 792 ✭✭✭sob1467


    BBJBIG wrote: »
    My CV has Value.
    I don't hand it out to Kunts on street corners ...

    So, this little Oirish Dictatorship can fook roigh off.

    I take it you do not have a linkedin profile so :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭nelly17


    I dont think its a bad idea but at the same time I dont think the problem with unemployement is that people dont have their CV's out there, its pretty simple there arent enough jobs in the skills areas that people have, having CV's on line wont change that. Its just more eggwash on the pie of re-election engineering


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,734 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    This could be good if actually implemented properly, as part of a database accessible to employers. It could be done by filling in relevant fields on a site, which then generates a CV.

    It need not even be limited to unemployed people either, if those in employment are interested.

    People could include keywords for searches - keywords for skills and areas of knowledge/expertise/expected employment. This would be crucial to make it actually worthwhile/possible for employers to utilise the site properly - I'd imagine many employers would not be too keen on trawling through lots of CVs, when they can just advertise the job and wait for applications as usual.

    Many people will 'customise' a CV based on the job they're going for though - talk up some stuff that they feel is more relevant for one job than another though. This might put people with a 'generic' CV online at a disadvantage against people currently in employment, who are not forced to do this.

    I'd also have concerns about privacy though. Who gets to see names, addresses, phone numbers, emails?

    My main concern though would be that the whole thing would just be window-dressing, and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference except the government would have a few nice soundbites from it, while nobody uses it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89 ✭✭Honest opinion


    BBJBIG wrote: »
    My CV has Value.
    I don't hand it out to Kunts on street corners ...

    So, this little Oirish Dictatorship can fook roigh off.

    Clearly it doesn't have much value if your unemployed :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Clearly it doesn't have much value if your unemployed :rolleyes:
    All CV's have value!

    Well printed ones anyway, in case you run out of bog roll...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Sounds like a case of making it look like the government are doing something. I wouldn't trust them to keep the information safe in any case.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Wouldn't there be issues regarding identity theft?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    doolox wrote: »
    There must be some underlying reason for people not wanting to work. I was fortunate enough to come from a family background that valued work and earning your way through life at some job or enterprise whether employed or self employed etc but many people cannot keep employed all their lives and need help. Those who are unable to keep a job may suffer from depression, drug addiction or some form of health issue which needs to be sorted out first before condemning them as lazy or shiftless out of hand or making some other value judgement based on little or no solid data.

    As our country recovers we need to invest time and money in making sure all our people are sufficiently educated to take up the jobs that are becoming available and sorting out the people who cannot work in standard 40hr week job.

    Payments may need to be made to people for example that are close to retirement and, due to agism, may never be reemployed again before retirement. Certain mental health issues may exist which prevent some people from holding down a job, these need to be categorised honestly and openly so as to keep the job seeking resources for those most capable of retaining a job and not waste a job seekers and employers time with someone doomed to lose the job too quickly.



    If you wish to see first hand people who just don't want to work, get a job in recruitment.
    I have guys who turn up for interview in shorts and tee shirts, guys who come in smelling of drink, guys who are high, ladies with tops on that are 10 sizes too small for them.
    I have people give me a half page CV and then get annoyed when I ask them about their jobs.
    I had one heavy lady who wore the smallest top with cleavage to her neck who kept pulling at the top, then told her friend outside that I was coping a look (eeewwwww, just no)
    I have sent people job specs and given them loads of help only for them to jack the job in a day or so later cause it was too hard.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    Don't see how this is even a story. That's how it is done here in Germany, the Bundesagentur für Arbeit has one of the biggest jobs databases in Germany. When you become unemployed you will be called into a meeting, your details are discussed (what skills you have, where you can work, etc), profile created and entered into the DB. You will then regularly receive relevant job specs and are expected to set up and attend interviews. Failure to do so results in reduction in welfare.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,316 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Steven81 wrote: »
    What happens if a person gets a job who doesnt want it, he will do nothing get the sack and be back getting his benefits the week after.
    It'll ensure those who want to work find it harder to get work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    jester77 wrote: »
    Don't see how this is even a story. That's how it is done here in Germany, the Bundesagentur für Arbeit has one of the biggest jobs databases in Germany. When you become unemployed you will be called into a meeting, your details are discussed (what skills you have, where you can work, etc), profile created and entered into the DB. You will then regularly receive relevant job specs and are expected to set up and attend interviews. Failure to do so results in reduction in welfare.

    Agree with you on this, if the system is used correctly and all details are given correctly and in the correct place it may work, but when has the Irish government ever done this right the first time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    nelly17 wrote: »
    I dont think its a bad idea but at the same time I dont think the problem with unemployement is that people dont have their CV's out there, its pretty simple there arent enough jobs in the skills areas that people have, having CV's on line wont change that. Its just more eggwash on the pie of re-election engineering

    I think a lot of the problem is that people are equating 'no jobs in my sector' with 'no jobs at all'.

    Sometimes you just have to be willing to think outside the box.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭Mrs Garth Brooks


    Thing I'm not happy is who can see this CV?

    Obviously employers can which can be a good thing.

    Can INTREO/FAS... With a gap on the CV, how do you fill it, to make yourself look more employable ? ... You can't lie with the FAS. Like off travelling/Carering for sick relative when you were really drawing the dole.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Steven81 wrote: »
    What happens if a person gets a job who doesnt want it, he will do nothing get the sack and be back getting his benefits the week after.

    Well the person in question won't get his benefits the week after, if he or she quits the job. If you quit a job, you need to wait for a certain period of time before you can claim benefits, if I remember correctly.
    BBJBIG wrote: »
    My CV has Value.
    I don't hand it out to Kunts on street corners ...

    So, this little Oirish Dictatorship can fook roigh off.

    So how do you apply for jobs? You mustn't post your c.v. on any online job sites or send them to recruitment agents.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    BBJBIG wrote: »
    My CV has Value.
    I don't hand it out to Kunts on street corners ...

    So, this little Oirish Dictatorship can fook roigh off.

    Make sure you run spell check on your cv.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭BBJBIG


    Berserker wrote: »
    Well the person in question won't get his benefits the week after, if he or she quits the job. If you quit a job, you need to wait for a certain period of time before you can claim benefits, if I remember correctly.



    So how do you apply for jobs? You mustn't post your c.v. on any online job sites or send them to recruitment agents.

    I am selective about who I send the CV to - especially, those fookin Recruitments Pimps ... a roigh bunch of wasters


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Only a few months ago, I was stupid enough to be sent/forced onto a very basic level 3, on the same level as the junior cert, computer coursr...to learn new skills as library researching skills and internet skills for 11 months. I wasn't given a choice on courses to do. I put my put foot down and found a course I did want to do. They werent going to help me, it was a private run course, got the forms for the grant, filled it out and left them back myself. Followed it up as I didn't hear back, to be told that I didn't leave the forms back.

    Basically, I do what they say.

    Have an ordinary degree and a level 6 and well capable of using the internet and applying for jobs.

    So according to them I don't know how to upload my CV.

    I have no problems uploading my CV, but I don't want to be treated like thick piece of sh!t either, to be sent on a mickey mouse soulless course for 11 months with no job prospects after.

    The range of courses is very limited.

    This whole things sounds like a box ticking exercise tbh, FAS seen to be doing something, anything!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    The database is a good idea (though likely to be a data protection nightmare, as this country has a long history of enormous database leaks), but using it to threaten the unemployed, makes it look more like an added hurdle/layer-of-bureaucracy, for creating an excuse to kick some people off the dole for trivial reasons.

    Also - obligatory mention in threads like this: There are not enough jobs for all of the unemployed, as there are 24 people per job vacancy at the moment:
    http://www.nerinstitute.net/imglibrary/2014/09/201409021647131.jpg
    http://www.nerinstitute.net/blog/2014/09/02/latest-data-on-the-vacancy-rate/


    It is more of a "make it look like we're doing something" exercise than anything else though - if government wanted to do something useful about the unemployment problem, money would be spent creating jobs, rather than ignoring the wholly inadequate supply of jobs.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Surely a person has the right not to have their personal information posted online?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭RonanP77


    I think it's a great idea and don't see why anyone would be angry about it.

    I've never done up a CV because I've been in full time employment since the week after my leaving cert. If I was unfortunate enough to lose my job I'd be perfectly happy to do up a CV and stick it up online.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    K-9 wrote: »
    The range of courses is very limited.

    This whole things sounds like a box ticking exercise tbh, FAS seen to be doing something, anything!

    I was told of a guy who was layed off recently,he was offered a job but needed a Safe Pass & Manual Handling.He went to his local Fas/Solas and was told "we don't have funding".Off to the dole office with him & they went nuts when he explained the scenario.

    TLDR: Guy wants to work but those tasked with helping him just put obstacles in the way.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 616 ✭✭✭duckcfc


    And sure while they are at it, sure put down all criminal records on it as well. This will be their loophole to not get employed because most of the dole bums have records that are like books.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 616 ✭✭✭duckcfc


    Hermy wrote: »
    Surely a person has the right not to have their personal information posted online?

    I agree!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    zerks wrote: »
    I was told of a guy who was layed off recently,he was offered a job but needed a Safe Pass & Manual Handling.He went to his local Fas/Solas and was told "we don't have funding".Off to the dole office with him & they went nuts when he explained the scenario.

    TLDR: Guy wants to work but those tasked with helping him just put obstacles in the way.

    I know someone who did a 12 week FAS Project management course just to keep the job office happy. They had years of experience as a sales manager with a multinational and lecturer told them there would be an assignment etc before the certificate was granted. They didn't really care because they had more experience that the lecturer and didn't need the Cert anyway. About 4 weeks in they had to miss a class and was subsequently told by the lecturer that they only needed to do something like 3 of the 12 classes anyway and they didn't really need to do the assignment either.

    They never returned and a few weeks after getting a job, they received a FAS Cert for project management in the post... for a course they didn't complete and didn't do any work on. This is where our taxes go!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 616 ✭✭✭duckcfc


    smash wrote: »

    This is where our taxes go!

    I love seeing posts like this lol. Listen, I'm going to let you in on a wee secret you might not know so please keep it quiet because its clear many don't know this.

    Right, your hard earned taxes are going to get squandered for the rest if your life. Its just the way the system is set up and only a fool thinks otherwise. Every working man/women in this country is getting raped left right and centre from the government and it ain't ever going to change in your lifetime. Another wee tip, you spend money on food to create energy so please stop wasting your hard earned cash on negative thoughts like this above which you can't change. Accept your a robot in this capitalist system and please stop your moaning about "your taxes"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,839 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    zerks wrote: »
    I was told of a guy who was layed off recently,he was offered a job but needed a Safe Pass & Manual Handling.He went to his local Fas/Solas and was told "we don't have funding".Off to the dole office with him & they went nuts when he explained the scenario.

    TLDR: Guy wants to work but those tasked with helping him just put obstacles in the way.

    No savings to dip into/borrow from family/friends??

    Of course not.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    why is it that the only way the govt in this country can achieve anything is to hold the threat of revenue, court or removal of benefits from people?
    it'sd a very shortsighted way to govern and one that only causes resentment and in the long run, hardship for genuine people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭FairytaleGirl


    He lasted 2 days before telling me he was better off on the dole. I doubt him loading up a job CV will help much


    This is the real issue, no one that's unemployed should be better off than someone working full time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    duckcfc wrote: »
    I love seeing posts like this lol. Listen, I'm going to let you in on a wee secret you might not know so please keep it quiet because its clear many don't know this.

    Right, your hard earned taxes are going to get squandered for the rest if your life. Its just the way the system is set up and only a fool thinks otherwise. Every working man/women in this country is getting raped left right and centre from the government and it ain't ever going to change in your lifetime. Another wee tip, you spend money on food to create energy so please stop wasting your hard earned cash on negative thoughts like this above which you can't change. Accept your a robot in this capitalist system and please stop your moaning about "your taxes"

    It's glaringly obvious that taxes get squandered and everyone knows it. With the case of FAS, it's an agency that just keeps failing over and over. It's never been run properly and it's not fit for purpose. To just accept it is wrong. It's supposed to provide education and support and it does both of those things very badly. An employer wouldn't even look at a FAS qualification and that says a lot.


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