Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

gafferino

whatawaster wrote: »

Shelvey is a decent player, but not close to Joe Allen imo

People give Allen a ridiculously hard time on here. His contribution to our excellent season last year should not be forgotten. Some of our best performances of the season were built on Allen AND Henderson's pressing and energy in midfield.

Yes, he has been poor this season, but it seems that every time he gives a bad performance you get people in here saying he is not good enough for Liverpool, or, most ridiculously, is not physical enough for Liverpool. Henderson has been almost as bad this season but gets almost no criticism.

I dont get the Allen hate either. I think his price tag has put a lot of people off him but I think at times he has been excellent. What he lacks is consistency in his performances.

cj maxx

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The Mirror has that Cech's agent has informed the club that he is available.

Good keeper but wasn't quite the same after his injury
Improvement on what we have though

5starpool

Joe Allen has had some good games for us, but they have been far outweighed by the games where he has been as effective as a wet paper towel.

Kirby

Indeed. I think people are under the illusion that he is the same keeper he was ten years ago when he was 22. He's not. Many get better in that time but Cech has gone the other way.

He's better than what Liverpool have and that is the important thing, but I wouldn't be in a rush to pay the 15 million to Chelsea and offer him the 150k a week that he will want. It's not a cheap option.

GavRedKing

Kirby wrote: »

Indeed. I think people are under the illusion that he is the same keeper he was ten years ago when he was 22. He's not. Many get better in that time but Cech has gone the other way.

He's better than what Liverpool have and that is the important thing, but I wouldn't be in a rush to pay the 15 million to Chelsea and offer him the 150k a week that he will want. It's not a cheap option.

Hes got 18months left on his contract, 15million is about 5 million to much.

Also, Cech would start for probably every team in the world that arent Utd or Bayern, I dont want him sold but I cant see him signing an extension so selling him in the summer is best for all invovled.

Kirby

I would strongly disagree with that one. The longer he is sat on the bench the better he gets apparently. I still remember the slow and jittery Cech more than the unstoppable one of Mourinho's first stint at Chelsea. That Cech is long gone. There is a reason he was replaced by a kid. That kid might be the next great thing, in my opinion he is, but to replace a long term keeper with a kid with a couple of seasons under him is a statement.....and it's a statement I agree with and heed.

And Chelsea aren't going to sell to Liverpool for cheap. It might be 10 million to a foreign club but that price is going up if he's to stay in the league....18 months left or not.

GavRedKing

Kirby wrote: »

I would strongly disagree with that one. The longer he is sat on the bench the better he gets apparently. I still remember the slow and jittery Cech more than the unstoppable one of Mourinho's first stint at Chelsea. That Cech is long gone. There is a reason he was replaced by a kid. That kid might be the next great thing, in my opinion he is, but to replace a long term keeper with a kid with a couple of seasons under him is a statement.....and it's a statement I agree with and heed.

And Chelsea aren't going to sell to Liverpool for cheap. It might be 10 million to a foreign club but that price is going up if he's to stay in the league....18 months left or not.

He was the best in the league last year and prior to that was consistently good enough to be a top 5 in the world GK, probably higher too.

When you're bringing in the 2nd best GK in the world its a banker the guy who was number 1 will be benched or sold, Courtois is the future.

I also dont think Cech will be sold in January unless he pushes it from his side, given we're in still in for all possible trophies and hes likely to play all the Capital 1 cup games, I just cant see him jumping ship mid-season.

Charlie19

Shelvey is a slower and lazier version of a current Steven Gerrard.

He also said himself that he needed to move on, to get regular football.

5live

Hidalgo wrote: »

Is today's topic Allen v Shelvey??

Neither are good enough. Shelvey should have been sold and the Allen fee should have gone towards a 'proper good' DM. One with a physical presence.

whatawaster wrote: »

Shelvey is a decent player, but not close to Joe Allen imo

People give Allen a ridiculously hard time on here. His contribution to our excellent season last year should not be forgotten. Some of our best performances of the season were built on Allen AND Henderson's pressing and energy in midfield.

Yes, he has been poor this season, but it seems that every time he gives a bad performance you get people in here saying he is not good enough for Liverpool, or, most ridiculously, is not physical enough for Liverpool. Henderson has been almost as bad this season but gets almost no criticism.

Allen was bought when the focus of the club was 'Death by Football' and Allen started off well for us, with a great ability to recycle the ball and change the focus of the attack. It's not a surprise that he doesn't look as accomplished in the side this year when there is virtually nobody to recycle the ball to except the two CBs.

He also brought the knowledge of Rodgers system and that was a huge advantage as the team tried to follow a completely different style.

If the current system stays for a while, I think Allen will look better again as he will have options either side and in front of him to pass the ball to.

MD1990

Cech since his head injury hasn't been the same. Isn't commanding from crosses & would'nt rush out to collect balls partly because of his head injury. We don't want another Johnson, Cole situation. Look at Ashley Cole too having a terrible time in Italy. When Mourinho drops a player its clear there are declining. We should be looking at a GK from Spain plenty of good keepers in La Liga.

Blatter

MD1990 wrote: »

Cech since his head injury hasn't been the same. Isn't commanding from crosses & would'nt rush out to collect balls partly because of his head injury. We don't want another Johnson, Cole situation. Look at Ashley Cole too having a terrible time in Italy. When Mourinho drops a player its clear there are declining. We should be looking at a GK from Spain plenty of good keepers in La Liga.

I hardly think you're in a position to turn your nose up at Petr Cech.

gafferino

5starpool wrote: »

Joe Allen has had some good games for us, but they have been far outweighed by the games where he has been as effective as a wet paper towel.

Yeah it is consistency he is missing. We have seen he is capable of it at times but just not often enough.

LuckyLloyd

5starpool wrote: »

Joe Allen has had some good games for us, but they have been far outweighed by the games where he has been as effective as a wet paper towel.

He's a weak little nothing footballer ultimately. When a player is given lots of game time in a side that was winning lots of matches for a period then yeah - he'll have some good games. This season he's been the first player to break under pressure. Weak.

Keep it in the family Fabio. Jesus Christ

gafferino

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He's a weak little nothing footballer ultimately. When a player is given lots of game time in a side that was winning lots of matches for a period then yeah - he'll have some good games. This season he's been the first player to break under pressure. Weak.

'A weak little nothing player, if a team is playing well then he can have some good games'.

So not one bit of credit to Allen? He is not nearly as bad as you make out. He has been the first to break - what does that mean? He broke then the rest of the team followed suit? Have you been watching for the 'first to break' each match? Nonsense..... you could aim that accusation at a lot if not all of the players at various stages.

Kirby

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This season he's been the first player to break....

Surely Sturridge was the first to break? :P

rarnes1

rarnes1 wrote: »

Keep it in the family Fabio. Jesus Christ

Was that not a while back?

T-K-O

naughtb4 wrote: »

Would Cech actually be the answer for us?

Didnt he suffer alot when asked to play under Vilas Boas with a high line?

This. Most keepers will suffer playing under BR. Screw up the first back pass, dont worry, cos Skrtel and the boys win ensure to play every single possible ball back to you.

It drives me crazy, our defenders wont take the chance but see fit to put the GK under that pressure.

SM01

Cech is an excellent answer to our goalkeeping woes. The argument that he has deteriorated is fallacy (IMO). He had a period after the Hunt clash where his form wavered slightly (but even that was exaggerated by the media and rival supporters) but for the last couple of years he's been a supreme goalkeeper. If he's not as good as Courtois, he's only very marginally behind him. If he's available, do everything to get him. He's still one of the best keepers in the world.

super_furry

These Torres rumours don't seem to be going away. Really hope there's nothing in them, it would be such a huge backwards step.

gafferino

super_furry wrote: »

These Torres rumours don't seem to be going away. Really hope there's nothing in them, it would be such a huge backwards step.

The Irish Times were reporting him going back to Athletico.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/ac-milan-looking-to-offload-fernando-torres-to-atl%C3%A9tico-madrid-1.2046938

Sir Gallagher

Joe Allen is just there to make up the numbers, a forgettable, bit-part player who's injured most of the time. 15 millions worth of nothingness.

Turtyturd

I think Cech is a different situation to Cole (who is getting on) and Mata (who is clearly not the player he was). He's not as good as he was but better than our options.

PhiloCypher

5starpool wrote: »

Joe Allen has had some good games for us, but they have been far outweighed by the games where he has been as effective as a wet paper towel.

When we were are on it and pressing as a team last year he was a key part of that unfortunately when we don't press effectively "as a a team" as with this season, Allen invariably comes in for a lot more stick then other worthy candidates.

Harry Palmr

That some people think better of Shelvey than Allen tells me thread patrons are on the Sherry a bit early this Chrimbo.

Turtyturd

PhiloCypher wrote: »

When we were are on it and pressing as a team last year he was a key part of that unfortunately when we don't press effectively "as a a team" as with this season, Allen invariably comes in for a lot more stick then other worthy candidates.

Yep, as someone else said Henderson deserves just as much criticism but escapes it cos he runs a lot.

Allen also wasn't helped by the manager with his 'Welsh Xavi' comments, or him abandoning his style of football that Allen was to be central to.

Iused2likebusts

Cech would be a great signing 3rd or 4th best keeper in the league and a massive upgrade on what we have.

5starpool

Shelvey is not good enough for us either, although at one point I had hopes that he might be, but his passing and decision making let him down ultimately.

Agent Coulson

Shelvey wouldn't get into any of Chelsea, City, Utd or Arsenal's first teams if people think he is the standard of player we need we will never make the top 4 again.

Allen isn't much better but he is better but still not good enough for what we need if we want to make the top 4 or better year after year.

Chardee MacDennis

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He's a weak little nothing footballer ultimately. When a player is given lots of game time in a side that was winning lots of matches for a period then yeah - he'll have some good games. This season he's been the first player to break under pressure. Weak.

Just like Aspas, Alberto, and Johnson all looked good last year....

I like Allen, he's a good player to have in the squad or in a partnership with Henderson.